Invincible guards is probably the worst thing done to this game.

Bryanonymous · August 2016

It's just lame. Ruins immersion. Whoever insisted on this made a terrible decision.

Bakven · August 2016

Yeah... by far not the worst thing done in this game. It doesn't even come close to being on the list honestly, more of a slight annoyance than a game breaker.

Xvorg · August 2016

Bryanonymous wrote: »

It's just lame. Ruins immersion. Whoever insisted on this made a terrible decision.

More than immesion breaking, it makes no sense that a hero who kicked Molag Bal *, cannot beat a simple guard...

With those guards roaming in Cyro, No zerg would dare to step in.

Volrion · August 2016

The first time I discovered they were unkillable was when I went on a killing spree in Daggerfall. Had a 10k bounty on my head when I began fighting the god mode guards... One blue screen later and I logged back into a death recap and -10k gold.

Perfect!

Bryanonymous · August 2016

Bakven wrote: »

Yeah... by far not the worst thing done in this game. It doesn't even come close to being on the list honestly, more of a slight annoyance than a game breaker.

if anything was game breaking, the game would be broken and we would not be playing anymore, but perhaps your opinion would seem more valid if you gave an example of some other feature which annoys you more. To each, their own.

jeedrzej · August 2016

They have to be invincible unfortunetely... Somtimes system just need things we hate.
There would be no reason to clear bounty when you could not areid guards. And no danger with having bounty.

Bryanonymous · August 2016

jeedrzej wrote: »

They have to be invincible unfortunetely... Somtimes system just need things we hate.
There would be no reason to clear bounty when you could not areid guards. And no danger with having bounty.

That's just not a sound argument. Guards were not invincible in past TES games, and clearing your bounty was still important so you could enter the cities without being attacked on sight. The invincible guards is an unrealistic punishment which makes being a criminal ridiculously degrading for someone who single handed saves almost every person they meet yet gets annihilated by some peasant guard the moment they steal a loaf of bread.

jeedrzej · August 2016

Past TES werent MMO. MMO's systems are far other than single player's.

jeedrzej · August 2016

Like I said. Sometimes we have no choice becouse this is the only system which works

Bryanonymous · August 2016

jeedrzej wrote: »

Past TES werent MMO. MMO's systems are far other than single player's.

And? That doesn't really give a reason for why an MMO needs invincible guards. 'Because it's an MMO' is not a valid reason.

jeedrzej wrote: »

Like I said. Sometimes we have no choice becouse this is the only system which works

You did say that before, but you failed at explaining why guards must be invincible. After I debunked your logic, your only response was 'because MMO'. You didn't prove anything and you're just wrong. It's not essential for guards to be invincible, it's a developers bad decision to try to make crimes seem more exaggerated than they really are.

jeedrzej · August 2016

Ech...

So why are merchant invincible?
And quest givers?
And many many many of other NPC?

And why they respawn?
Its also immersion breaking.

But its needed.

Why cant I take all armor from killed NPC?

Again...

If we could kill guards, there would be a lot of problems with it. System's problems.
Present system works. What is the most important.

I can imagine how easy and boring would be TG quest if i could simple kill guards. And not afraid about be caugh.
And for sure Mournhold/Elden root/ Wayres would be "no guards" cities...

"Dont touch running system"
"If something is stiupid but its working, its not stiupid"

If you cannot understand this... Well thats your problem. I hate invincible guards... But they are needed. ZOS got it. And you? I know... Not.

Bryanonymous · August 2016

jeedrzej wrote: »

Ech...

So why are merchant invincible?
And quest givers?
And many many many of other NPC?

And why they respawn?
Its also immersion breaking.

But its needed.

Why cant I take all armor from killed NPC?

Again...

If we could kill guards, there would be a lot of problems with it. System's problems.
Present system works. What is the most important.

I can imagine how easy and boring would be TG quest if i could simple kill guards. And not afraid about be caugh.
And for sure Mournhold/Elden root/ Wayres would be "no guards" cities...

"Dont touch running system"
"If something is stiupid but its working, its not stiupid"

If you cannot understand this... Well thats your problem. I hate invincible guards... But they are needed. ZOS got it. And you? I know... Not.

Guards are not merchants and they are not quest givers. And your imagination is pretty limited. Artificial restrictions is not entertaining, it's frustrating. Raise bounties to a higher level, never let them clear on their own, and make guards as strong as group bosses, and you will have a more immersive justice system with a more entertaining choice of fight or flight, instead of this artificial garbage. Try to understand that.

jeedrzej · August 2016

I see there is no reason to try convince you. You just wont understand. And I dont like arguying

Very well then, feel free to complain. And dream.

ZOS wont change working system.

Thats all.

Bryanonymous · August 2016

jeedrzej wrote: »

I see there is no reason to try convince you. You just wont understand. And I dont like arguying

Very well then, feel free to complain. And dream.

ZOS wont change working system.

Thats all.

I understand that your logic is wrong and you're just arguing from a narrow fanboy point of view. As for the future, you don't know what will happen, so please don't pretend like you do. Sure, it's 100 to 1 that they ever change it, but that would be thanks to people like you who blindly defend the garbage without any sound reasons for why besides 'it's an MMO so it has to be'. So what exactly do you want me to be convinced of? You failed to give any logical reasons for why they should not be able to die, yet come off as if you believe you made a convincing argument that every sane person should understand. Sorry, you didn't.

Chuckar0o · August 2016

It would be cooler if instead of invincible guards, after a certain bounty threshold has passed that player becomes hostile to all players in the area. Whoever kills him claims the bounty or its split up among the players who assisted .

SleepyTroll · August 2016

I don't care that they are invincible but their one hit mechanic is absurd.

Kraynic · August 2016

If the guards were killable, it would be easily exploitable. You would see people raiding towns and cities to kill guards, take anything not nailed down to a fence, rinse and repeat. Why have the bounty system if there isn't some sort of effective enforcement?

To be honest, the system is pretty forgiving. I haven't ever gone on a murdering spree, so I usually just swap characters for a while until the bounty goes away. Guards are so forgetful in this game. Not so immersive in that respect.

Bryanonymous · August 2016

Kraynic wrote: »

If the guards were killable, it would be easily exploitable. You would see people raiding towns and cities to kill guards, take anything not nailed down to a fence, rinse and repeat. Why have the bounty system if there isn't some sort of effective enforcement?

To be honest, the system is pretty forgiving. I haven't ever gone on a murdering spree, so I usually just swap characters for a while until the bounty goes away. Guards are so forgetful in this game. Not so immersive in that respect.

I don't see the problem with raiding towns. I already watch players do it all the time. And the point of the bounty is to make the guards attack you.

Autolycus · August 2016

Yes, definitely the most game-breaking feature present in Tamriel today. I think we should postpone player housing and One Tamrial indefinitely, in an effort to focus all staff and resources into making guards less immersion-breaking.

Here is a brief list of things that are clearly not as important, but things we should consider dedicating resources to once the whole guard debacle is resolved:
1. LAG
2. Crashing in the middle of / immediately following boss fights.
3. Not getting chests at the end of vIP and vDSA.
4. Players scaling vSO to level 45 and exploiting the final boss so as to only fight the Serpent over and over (not the whole trial) and still getting cp160 rewards.
5. Loot drops being available in Training and Prosperous on max-level gear, and having substantially higher drop rates than any trait deemed desirable by the community at large.
6. Inability to dye some gear pieces (particularly those that take a year to get - and yes, literally a year, not figuratively).
7. Bar-swapping allowing enemies to ignore resistances outright.
8. Top leaderboard spots being held by people who openly admitted cheating, but have not been cleared from the boards yet.
9. Discrepancy between magicka and stamina parses - balance anyone?
10. Group finder...

Bryanonymous · August 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

Yes, definitely the most game-breaking feature present in Tamriel today. I think we should postpone player housing and One Tamrial indefinitely, in an effort to focus all staff and resources into making guards less immersion-breaking.

Here is a brief list of things that are clearly not as important, but things we should consider dedicating resources to once the whole guard debacle is resolved:
1. LAG
2. Crashing in the middle of / immediately following boss fights.
3. Not getting chests at the end of vIP and vDSA.
4. Players scaling vSO to level 45 and exploiting the final boss so as to only fight the Serpent over and over (not the whole trial) and still getting cp160 rewards.
5. Loot drops being available in Training and Prosperous on max-level gear, and having substantially higher drop rates than any trait deemed desirable by the community at large.
6. Inability to dye some gear pieces (particularly those that take a year to get - and yes, literally a year, not figuratively).
7. Bar-swapping allowing enemies to ignore resistances outright.
8. Top leaderboard spots being held by people who openly admitted cheating, but have not been cleared from the boards yet.
9. Discrepancy between magicka and stamina parses - balance anyone?
10. Group finder...

All those issues are under constant maintenance. Do you have any clue how easy it would be to change the guards stats? Smh... And tbh, none of those things are even as noticeable. The behavior of the guards directly influences the choices of the players and alters their story. A few bugs really have much less impact on the choices a player makes. I know you thought you were being clever, but your list was just a try hard fail. And I never said anything breaks the game. If it was broken, I would not be playing. Which raises the question, if you believe any of those flaws breaks the game, why are you even here?

Kraynic · August 2016

Bryanonymous wrote: »

Kraynic wrote: »

If the guards were killable, it would be easily exploitable. You would see people raiding towns and cities to kill guards, take anything not nailed down to a fence, rinse and repeat. Why have the bounty system if there isn't some sort of effective enforcement?

To be honest, the system is pretty forgiving. I haven't ever gone on a murdering spree, so I usually just swap characters for a while until the bounty goes away. Guards are so forgetful in this game. Not so immersive in that respect.

I don't see the problem with raiding towns. I already watch players do it all the time. And the point of the bounty is to make the guards attack you.

Ok, so what is the point of having the bounty if the guards are killable? You kill all the guards and go about your business. Guards would be pretty pointless that way. The way things are, people have some incentive to be sneaky when they steal things or murder an npc.

Bryanonymous · August 2016

Kraynic wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

Kraynic wrote: »

If the guards were killable, it would be easily exploitable. You would see people raiding towns and cities to kill guards, take anything not nailed down to a fence, rinse and repeat. Why have the bounty system if there isn't some sort of effective enforcement?

To be honest, the system is pretty forgiving. I haven't ever gone on a murdering spree, so I usually just swap characters for a while until the bounty goes away. Guards are so forgetful in this game. Not so immersive in that respect.

I don't see the problem with raiding towns. I already watch players do it all the time. And the point of the bounty is to make the guards attack you.

Ok, so what is the point of having the bounty if the guards are killable? You kill all the guards and go about your business. Guards would be pretty pointless that way. The way things are, people have some incentive to be sneaky when they steal things or murder an npc.

The point is that every guard continues to attack you on sight. Haven't you ever played any other elder scrolls game? I never said the guards should be easy. I said they should not be invincible. They could have a high respawn rate as well. How is this so hard to imagine? Are you new to video games?

Autolycus · August 2016

Bryanonymous wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Yes, definitely the most game-breaking feature present in Tamriel today. I think we should postpone player housing and One Tamrial indefinitely, in an effort to focus all staff and resources into making guards less immersion-breaking.

Here is a brief list of things that are clearly not as important, but things we should consider dedicating resources to once the whole guard debacle is resolved:
1. LAG
2. Crashing in the middle of / immediately following boss fights.
3. Not getting chests at the end of vIP and vDSA.
4. Players scaling vSO to level 45 and exploiting the final boss so as to only fight the Serpent over and over (not the whole trial) and still getting cp160 rewards.
5. Loot drops being available in Training and Prosperous on max-level gear, and having substantially higher drop rates than any trait deemed desirable by the community at large.
6. Inability to dye some gear pieces (particularly those that take a year to get - and yes, literally a year, not figuratively).
7. Bar-swapping allowing enemies to ignore resistances outright.
8. Top leaderboard spots being held by people who openly admitted cheating, but have not been cleared from the boards yet.
9. Discrepancy between magicka and stamina parses - balance anyone?
10. Group finder...

All those issues are under constant maintenance. Do you have any clue how easy it would be to change the guards stats? Smh... And tbh, none of those things are even as noticeable. The behavior of the guards directly influences the choices of the players and alters their story. A few bugs really have much less impact on the choices a player makes. I know you thought you were being clever, but your list was just a try hard fail. And I never said anything breaks the game. If it was broken, I would not be playing. Which raises the question, if you believe any of those flaws breaks the game, why are you even here?

Lol. Okay buddy.

Bryanonymous · August 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Yes, definitely the most game-breaking feature present in Tamriel today. I think we should postpone player housing and One Tamrial indefinitely, in an effort to focus all staff and resources into making guards less immersion-breaking.

Here is a brief list of things that are clearly not as important, but things we should consider dedicating resources to once the whole guard debacle is resolved:
1. LAG
2. Crashing in the middle of / immediately following boss fights.
3. Not getting chests at the end of vIP and vDSA.
4. Players scaling vSO to level 45 and exploiting the final boss so as to only fight the Serpent over and over (not the whole trial) and still getting cp160 rewards.
5. Loot drops being available in Training and Prosperous on max-level gear, and having substantially higher drop rates than any trait deemed desirable by the community at large.
6. Inability to dye some gear pieces (particularly those that take a year to get - and yes, literally a year, not figuratively).
7. Bar-swapping allowing enemies to ignore resistances outright.
8. Top leaderboard spots being held by people who openly admitted cheating, but have not been cleared from the boards yet.
9. Discrepancy between magicka and stamina parses - balance anyone?
10. Group finder...

All those issues are under constant maintenance. Do you have any clue how easy it would be to change the guards stats? Smh... And tbh, none of those things are even as noticeable. The behavior of the guards directly influences the choices of the players and alters their story. A few bugs really have much less impact on the choices a player makes. I know you thought you were being clever, but your list was just a try hard fail. And I never said anything breaks the game. If it was broken, I would not be playing. Which raises the question, if you believe any of those flaws breaks the game, why are you even here?

Lol. Okay buddy.

I'm not your buddy, guy.

Nestor · August 2016

Guards are so easy to avoid and, if needed, to get away from, that it does not matter if they are invincible or not. They are a non factor if you do things so you don't get caught. Or, do things so that getting caught is not an issue, like not having 50 stolen items in your bag when you decide to go steal from the bank. Just pay the fine if your caught and move on.

If your murdering NPCs and racking up a Mass Murderer Bounty, I have no sympathy for you. Pay the price for your actions.

Bryanonymous · August 2016

Nestor wrote: »

Guards are so easy to avoid and, if needed, to get away from, that it does not matter if they are invincible or not. They are a non factor if you do things so you don't get caught. Or, do things so that getting caught is not an issue, like not having 50 stolen items in your bag when you decide to go steal from the bank. Just pay the fine if your caught and move on.

If your murdering NPCs and racking up a Mass Murderer Bounty, I have no sympathy for you. Pay the price for your actions.

This is not a grievance with my ability to play and avoid the guards, nor do I require your sympathy. This is a matter of a murderous and theiving hero who saves every kingdom from the princes of oblivion being degraded to a lowly nothing by simple guards as a terrible punishment for a lazy system which did not put the effort into actual immersion. The guards should die. Fanboys are blind if they don't see how much more fun it would be. Never played grand theft auto and murdered a bunch of cops I guess. Or you're just gloating over the fact that others can't enjoy something more than they already can. I have not heard a single good argument for why they should be invincible. Just a bunch of assumptions about how it has to be this way because some imaginary necessity to make crime matter. Play any other video game with crime, and breaking the law still matters even if you can kill the cops. And it's also more fun than being slapped in the face by lazy game design.

Rainwhisper · August 2016

I remember the early days of Ultima Online, without invincible guards. I would not like to return to those days, even though there (thankfully) is no world PvP in ESO.

I think of the guards as representing the whole judicial system in ESO, not an individual. Yes, a hero might be able to take down one guard, but they wouldn't be able to take down the entire judicial system. It's a necessary mechanic to ensure that there are consequences and risk for illegal activity.

The presence of guards is no more immersion-breaking than the fact that the NPC's have yet to build my character a massive castle with a host of servants and a standing army as a reward for my services rendered on their behalf.

Rainwhisper · August 2016

Bryanonymous wrote: »

Fanboys are blind if they don't see how much more fun it would be. Never played grand theft auto and murdered a bunch of cops I guess.

No, no I haven't, nor will I. You and I have VERY different ideas of fun.

Bryanonymous · August 2016

Rainwhisper wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

Fanboys are blind if they don't see how much more fun it would be. Never played grand theft auto and murdered a bunch of cops I guess.

No, no I haven't, nor will I. You and I have VERY different ideas of fun.

Ok then. But you play Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild, or no? Btw, for your post above this one, I already suggested making them as hard as group bosses and increasing the respawn rate, however I think some of you are just determined to insist that this feature stays for no reason at all simply because you don't want to see others do it.

Nestor · August 2016

Bryanonymous wrote: »

I have not heard a single good argument for why they should be invincible.

@Bryanonymous

I have yet to hear a compelling argument for making the guards killable.

Immersion Nope, not compelling, getting caught for sloppily committing a crime is a real thing, that is Immersive.

Bryanonymous · August 2016

Nestor wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

I have not heard a single good argument for why they should be invincible.

@Bryanonymous

I have yet to hear a compelling argument for making the guards killable.

Immersion Nope, not compelling, getting caught for sloppily committing a crime is a real thing, that is Immersive.

The hero who defeats Molag Bal gets annihilated by a guard. That's terrible dialogue in the story. Now you're just trolling. That is the only reason I have given, and it remains a better reason than 'because MMO, and I don't want to watch others have fun'.