Greatswords vs. Mauls | Are 2H and 1H swords useless?
Dragonnord
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I have a question; what is the use of greatswords (or swords) in this game if using sharpened mauls (or maces) makes your toon hit harder?
I mean, who will use a greatsword or sword instead of maul or mace?
How can one of the most used weapons in real or fantasy battles through history have no use at all in ESO? What do they exist for if, in this game, the length of your weapon makes no difference like in real battles? Only for esthetic reasons?
Or am I missing something and there is use for greatswords and swords in ESO that I'm not considering? Explain when and why please.
Shouldn't greatswords be leveled with mauls so players can choose to use what they like most instead of always using mauls because they do more damage?
Again, or am I missing something?
Thanks in advance for your responses.
Carbon
I mean, who will use a greatsword or sword instead of maul or mace?
How can one of the most used weapons in real or fantasy battles through history have no use at all in ESO? What do they exist for if, in this game, the length of your weapon makes no difference like in real battles? Only for esthetic reasons?
Or am I missing something and there is use for greatswords and swords in ESO that I'm not considering? Explain when and why please.
Shouldn't greatswords be leveled with mauls so players can choose to use what they like most instead of always using mauls because they do more damage?
Again, or am I missing something?
Thanks in advance for your responses.
Carbon
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Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I actually do not know how it is in ESO, but in former TES games there was a speed difference with those weapons - daggers being the fastest, swords followed, then axes and the slowest were the blunt weapons - maces, mauls and hammers. 2h weapons slower than 1h weapons of course - don't know if it is in ESO the same, but I guess so.0 -
Dragonnord✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I actually do not know how it is in ESO, but in former TES games there was a speed difference with those weapons - daggers being the fastest, swords followed, then axes and the slowest were the blunt weapons - maces, mauls and hammers. 2h weapons slower than 1h weapons of course - don't know if it is in ESO the same, but I guess so.
I have tested and there is no speed difference. Performing a full heavy, med or light attack takes the exact same amount of time to cast and hit with greatswords or mauls.Edited by Dragonnord on August 7, 2016 4:51PM2 -
Preyfar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭2H weapons are fantastic in PVP, but not so much for PVE. Maelstrom DW weapons are so ridiculously powerful that it makes using 2H weapons for higher end PVE almost completely null and void. The DPS difference in PVE is too huge.
In PVP, they dominate because of Uppercut and its morphs, and the ability to land that higher damage hit in one go can be the difference between an opponent dying and getting off a heal/shield and managing to recover.0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I actually do not know how it is in ESO, but in former TES games there was a speed difference with those weapons - daggers being the fastest, swords followed, then axes and the slowest were the blunt weapons - maces, mauls and hammers. 2h weapons slower than 1h weapons of course - don't know if it is in ESO the same, but I guess so.
I have tested and there is no speed difference. Performing a full heavy, med or light attack takes the exact same amount of time to cast and hit with greatswords or mauls.
Hm, another guess I have is different effects like bleeding and so which come with certain weapon types - but as I am a bow user, I do not really know.0 -
Flak✭✭✭✭Swords are best for Magicka Builds because Magicka Skills don't profit from Daggers, Axes or Maces.
Before someone asks why would you use Swords on Magicka... it gives the highest spelldamage.
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Dragonnord✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I actually do not know how it is in ESO, but in former TES games there was a speed difference with those weapons - daggers being the fastest, swords followed, then axes and the slowest were the blunt weapons - maces, mauls and hammers. 2h weapons slower than 1h weapons of course - don't know if it is in ESO the same, but I guess so.
I have tested and there is no speed difference. Performing a full heavy, med or light attack takes the exact same amount of time to cast and hit with greatswords or mauls.
Hm, another guess I have is different effects like bleeding and so which come with certain weapon types - but as I am a bow user, I do not really know.
Yeap, greatswords increase your damage done by 5% and mauls cause your attacks to ignore 20% of your target armor. Because of this, tested, mauls hit harder.2 -
Dragonnord✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Swords are best for Magicka Builds because Magicka Skills don't profit from Daggers, Axes or Maces.
Before someone asks why would you use Swords on Magicka... it gives the highest spelldamage.
That's kind of weird, since you then need to use magic to get advantage from a melee weapon that you just slot to have more spell damage? Wow!0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I really loved double wielding daggers in Skyrim for example - with a good enchantment based on hit speed those were awesome. Same in Oblivion, dagger with absorb enchantments had impressive effects due to the high speed in which you could apply the absorption effects onto opponents. Too bad that weapons have all just the same speed in ESO.Edited by Lysette on August 7, 2016 5:10PM0 -
Dragonnord✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭2H weapons are fantastic in PVP, but not so much for PVE. Maelstrom DW weapons are so ridiculously powerful that it makes using 2H weapons for higher end PVE almost completely null and void. The DPS difference in PVE is too huge.
In PVP, they dominate because of Uppercut and its morphs, and the ability to land that higher damage hit in one go can be the difference between an opponent dying and getting off a heal/shield and managing to recover.
I agree, but I'm not comparing these weapons in PvE vs PvP, I'm just trying to figure out if greatswords have better use over mauls in any situation at all.0 -
Jaronking✭✭✭✭✭
✭Great swords are still good to use on a stambuild in PVP its also allow you to have stronger heals such as stronger vigor and rally heals your bread and butter for staying alive in PVP.2 -
Forestd16b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well swords give a flat damage bonus while mauls ignore armor and with the meta right now mauls are stronger because you can mitigate that damage you how ever can not mitigate or resist penetration which still makes high resistance builds E.X. heavy armor users still lack luster.
So want more damage maul with sharpen.0 -
Smasherx74✭✭✭✭✭
✭2hander is for PVP
Dual wield is for PVE
One Hander is for both PVE and PVP mainly tanking.Master Debater0 -
Dromede✭✭✭✭Swords are good for magicka users as they increase spell damage. It's OP for magsorcs for example - with the right set you'll have a 350 spell damage increase.
Otherwise, it depends on your build. My stamblade uses a dagger/axe combo for weapon crit % and bleed.Skye Cloude - Sorc DPS, Master Crafter. Main, the bestest
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Dragonnord✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Smasherx74 wrote: »2hander is for PVP
Dual wield is for PVE
One Hander is for both PVE and PVP mainly tanking.
Thanks for your response. I know those, I'm just asking if there's any advantage in using a greatsword over a maul.1 -
Jaronking✭✭✭✭✭
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The heavy weapon passive in 2hander which increase greatsword damage by 5% which increases your vigor heal because higher your weapons damage and max stamina the stronger vigor becomes.1 -
Dragonnord✭✭✭✭✭
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The heavy weapon passive in 2hander which increase greatsword damage by 5% which increases your vigor heal because higher your weapons damage and max stamina the stronger vigor becomes.
But that passive increases your damage when you hit, not before. So using Vigor while holding a greatsword or a maul should heal for the same amount because that passive is not yet enabled.0 -
Jaronking✭✭✭✭✭
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That's not how it works its the same with Duel wield Swords it apply passively to increase your weapon damage.So it applyd before same with swords.
The heavy weapon passive in 2hander which increase greatsword damage by 5% which increases your vigor heal because higher your weapons damage and max stamina the stronger vigor becomes.
But that passive increases your damage when you hit, not before. So using Vigor while holding a greatsword or a maul should heal for the same amount because that passive is not yet enabled.2 -
Flak✭✭✭✭Swords are best for Magicka Builds because Magicka Skills don't profit from Daggers, Axes or Maces.
Before someone asks why would you use Swords on Magicka... it gives the highest spelldamage.
That's kind of weird, since you then need to use magic to get advantage from a melee weapon that you just slot to have more spell damage? Wow!
True but that's the way the game works and if you like it or not that is where Swords are best in slot. So to answer your original question, no they are not useless.Edited by Flak on August 7, 2016 5:52PM
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Dragonnord✭✭✭✭✭
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That's not how it works its the same with Duel wield Swords it apply passively to increase your weapon damage.So it applyd before same with swords.
The heavy weapon passive in 2hander which increase greatsword damage by 5% which increases your vigor heal because higher your weapons damage and max stamina the stronger vigor becomes.
But that passive increases your damage when you hit, not before. So using Vigor while holding a greatsword or a maul should heal for the same amount because that passive is not yet enabled.
I'll surely test that asap.
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raasdal✭✭✭✭✭
✭Greatswords are still very good. Maul is by far not always the best choice.
As pointed out it increases healing, and generally affects your damage in another way entirely, than percentage based mitigation does.PC - EU
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Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭The difference in damage gets higher with higher resistance of your enemy. The more resistance they have after debuffd, the more mauls win out . With light arbor wearers its actually better to have swords i think, so long as you have other sources of major minor breach.
Mauls don't effect healing though, swords do and this is often overlooked as people crave damage.2 -
Trublz✭✭✭For DW I use swords. Swords increase weapon dmg and this passive is on 100% of the time. Daggers are nice if you are crit stacking. Axes have. 8% chance to proc a 10k dot, I forgot what maces do. I've been considering switching to one sword and one axe but idk...
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Jaronking✭✭✭✭✭
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That's not how it works its the same with Duel wield Swords it apply passively to increase your weapon damage.So it applyd before same with swords.
The heavy weapon passive in 2hander which increase greatsword damage by 5% which increases your vigor heal because higher your weapons damage and max stamina the stronger vigor becomes.
But that passive increases your damage when you hit, not before. So using Vigor while holding a greatsword or a maul should heal for the same amount because that passive is not yet enabled.
I'll surely test that asap.@Jaronking their traits will be identical. It's the 2h passive that gives the maul additional penetration. I don't remember how much pen you get though. You'll have to check. It's the 2nd or 3rd passive down in the list. I want to say it's 20%?
Regardless, I know it's a percentage, making it stronger the higher the enemy's resistances are. Heavy armor just got buffed, so you'll get plenty of work out of this.
Do keep in mind that the sword is an additional 5% (?) damage amplification across the board from the same passive. *does maths* ... Assuming swords give 5% damage and mauls give 20% armor pen, you'll need to be hitting a player with 16,250 physical resistance to even out. Also remember that swords will get their higher damage against shields, but the maul passive doesn't affect damage against shields, which don't have resistances.@Jaronking their traits will be identical. It's the 2h passive that gives the maul additional penetration. I don't remember how much pen you get though. You'll have to check. It's the 2nd or 3rd passive down in the list. I want to say it's 20%?
Regardless, I know it's a percentage, making it stronger the higher the enemy's resistances are. Heavy armor just got buffed, so you'll get plenty of work out of this.
Do keep in mind that the sword is an additional 5% (?) damage amplification across the board from the same passive. *does maths* ... Assuming swords give 5% damage and mauls give 20% armor pen, you'll need to be hitting a player with 16,250 physical resistance to even out. Also remember that swords will get their higher damage against shields, but the maul passive doesn't affect damage against shields, which don't have resistances.
The sword bonus damage also affects your heals as well, I see that get overlooked a lot
Well I got my information from the PVP combat section and this is what I was told.0 -
Zamuro✭✭✭i dont understand too how can a dagger hit with the same speed as axe or mace..... or a greatsword with the same speed as axe and hammer, at least it should have some bleed effect or something...Edited by Zamuro on August 7, 2016 7:39PM0 -
Czirne✭✭✭✭Sharepened greatsword hits harder to target with 21 410 armor and less, maul is better 21 410 armor and more. In pvp is better to burst down targets with low armor, because they have more damage.
(3250 armor = 5% damage reduction => maul have 20% penetration, therefore 5*3250+sharpened 5160= 21 410 armor, when maul have 5% damage increase, and growing with more armor.)Edited by Czirne on August 7, 2016 8:02PMI believe in lagless Cyrodiil!3 -
arkansas_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Swords are strongest on lightly-armored opponents, mauls are stronger on heavily-armored opponents. This is how swords and mauls work IRL, so I don't understand why you're complainingＦＯＲＵＭＰＬＡＲ
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Holycannoli✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »
They're both stupid. The system was designed wrong. You don't want to use a staff to increase physical/melee damage and you shouldn't want to use swords/melee weapons to increase spell damage. It's just dumb.
There's no way right now to make greatswords viable compared to mauls (or axes) without making them the single best option. ESO's combat system is sadly not complex enough to allow it. Greatswords should allow greater parrying potential, not very good vs armored opponents, and have a slight speed advantage; mauls should have very little parrying potential, swing slowest but have good damage against all targets armored or not; and axes should be just as slow as mauls, better than greatswords vs armor but not as good as mauls, not very good for parrying, and allow greater critical hits.
In my opinion.
But only some of that is possible in this game.
If you really want to balance weapon types properly you'd also consider the type of armor the target has which is not possible. We only have a generic armor rating.
DAOC did it right, if anyone remembers. Slash, thrust, crush (I think) damage types, and each kind of armor was good vs differing types so vs chainmail you wanted thrust, vs plate you wanted crush, etc.Edited by Holycannoli on August 7, 2016 8:11PM2