Guild Raffles.. how's it really work?

Acrolas · August 2016

starkerealm wrote: »

Actually, you're confusing raffles for lotteries.

I cited the legal definition for each. There's no confusion at all.

starkerealm · August 2016

Acrolas wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Actually, you're confusing raffles for lotteries.

I cited the legal definition for each. There's no confusion at all.

Evidently, there's more confusion then you think, given you cited nothing.

starkerealm · August 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

They're not raffles. Raffles are state-regulated approved fundraising events for registered nonprofit organizations.

Guild events have a prize, a chance to win, and consideration required to enter. They're lotteries.
States regulate lotteries. If you're participating in any lottery system that is not regulated by a state governing administration, you are doing so at your own risk.

Expecting transparency is more than a little bit silly when the same activity in the real world is illegal. Lotteries are right up there with stealing and killing innocents. If it makes you uncomfortable, don't include it in your play style. Spend the time earning gold and items in a way that you're comfortable with.

I doubt that there is an issue so long as the prizes are gold or in-game items. These are not valuable prizes. If they are Crowns or ESO Plus time, that would probably be different. I would expect to run afoul of the ToS for trading Crowns through an in-game arrangement, first.

By design, it's not possible to trade or "gift" crowns. If it was, it'd be open season for goldsellers.

85flyingbrick_ESO · August 2016

I host a weekly raffle in Ender's Jeesh. You can bicker about it being a lottery if you want. Guildmates really enjoy it. We typically have 300+ entries at 1000 gold per. Prizes have been as high as a Million Gold. (donated by a member) We are quite open about the method of using a randomizer found online. We've also had fishing contests and auctions. Transparency has been the key to avoiding rumors of playing favorites.

maxjapank · August 2016

Raffles in my trading guild seem to be part of the donations they need to successfully win a trader in a good location. And as I make a ton of gold being in said guild, I am happy to enter raffles, win or not, to support our bids. In general, if I'm active selling and making gold, then my taxes are funding the guild. But if I am not so active, then I usually donate or enter the raffles to make up for my lack of effort.

DenMoria · August 2016

This thread makes me so glad that I horde all my money and sell all my items in game and don't get involved with guilds. I'm way to paranoid to trust my guild. Any guild.

Elsonso · August 2016

starkerealm wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

They're not raffles. Raffles are state-regulated approved fundraising events for registered nonprofit organizations.

Guild events have a prize, a chance to win, and consideration required to enter. They're lotteries.
States regulate lotteries. If you're participating in any lottery system that is not regulated by a state governing administration, you are doing so at your own risk.

Expecting transparency is more than a little bit silly when the same activity in the real world is illegal. Lotteries are right up there with stealing and killing innocents. If it makes you uncomfortable, don't include it in your play style. Spend the time earning gold and items in a way that you're comfortable with.

I doubt that there is an issue so long as the prizes are gold or in-game items. These are not valuable prizes. If they are Crowns or ESO Plus time, that would probably be different. I would expect to run afoul of the ToS for trading Crowns through an in-game arrangement, first.

By design, it's not possible to trade or "gift" crowns. If it was, it'd be open season for goldsellers.

The sending of the Crowns would happen outside of the game, either by email or by sending a Crown card through the postal system.

It is the same basic principle that makes gold selling against the ToS.

If I gave you 1000 gold and you sent me the code (or card) for 1500 Crowns, that would definitely be against the ToS. How is that different from 500 people sending 1000 gold to someone and that someone picking ONE of them and sending them 1500 Crowns? The second person gets 500,000 gold instead of 1000 gold. That's the difference.

GarnetFire17 · August 2016

Most guilds use an addon that scans the deposits in the guild bank for certain amounts and issues a ticket number to the depositer. Most guilds aren't going to go through all the hassle of making a spreadsheet of all the deposits, and mail back everyone who buys a ticket. It is just too much work for a game. Make sure they have a website and a least post a screenshot of the results. But just because you don't win it doesn't mean you should be suspicious of shennagins.

Rayya_Blackheart · August 2016

I use an addon that uses set parameters based on deposits in the guild bank. I couple that with another c&p addon to post the results directly.

starkerealm · August 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

They're not raffles. Raffles are state-regulated approved fundraising events for registered nonprofit organizations.

Guild events have a prize, a chance to win, and consideration required to enter. They're lotteries.
States regulate lotteries. If you're participating in any lottery system that is not regulated by a state governing administration, you are doing so at your own risk.

Expecting transparency is more than a little bit silly when the same activity in the real world is illegal. Lotteries are right up there with stealing and killing innocents. If it makes you uncomfortable, don't include it in your play style. Spend the time earning gold and items in a way that you're comfortable with.

I doubt that there is an issue so long as the prizes are gold or in-game items. These are not valuable prizes. If they are Crowns or ESO Plus time, that would probably be different. I would expect to run afoul of the ToS for trading Crowns through an in-game arrangement, first.

By design, it's not possible to trade or "gift" crowns. If it was, it'd be open season for goldsellers.

The sending of the Crowns would happen outside of the game, either by email or by sending a Crown card through the postal system.

It is the same basic principle that makes gold selling against the ToS.

If I gave you 1000 gold and you sent me the code (or card) for 1500 Crowns, that would definitely be against the ToS. How is that different from 500 people sending 1000 gold to someone and that someone picking ONE of them and sending them 1500 Crowns? The second person gets 500,000 gold instead of 1000 gold. That's the difference.

You're missing the point, though. The issue with being able to move crowns around in game is that it would offer people a way to effectively launder funds through the game.

If you have a stolen CC, you can't really do anything with that. You can make purchases, but you're usually going to be looking for a way to turn that into cash. What you could do is buy digital products that you can then resell. We actually see this with Steam keys on sites like G2A. Where someone will buy keys with a stolen card, then resell those keys at a significant discount. By the time anyone's sorted out what went wrong, the keys are in the hands of "legitimate" buyers who don't know they bought stolen goods, and the developers are out the cost of the product and the chargeback fees they accrued when they stolen number was canceled.

For a goldseller, being able to move crowns around would be a goldmine. You can open accounts, and buy crowns with stolen cards, then sell those crowns to third parties through your service and pocket the cash. Depending on the nation your illicit business is operating out of, there may not even be any legal recourse. Meanwhile, ZOS is watching their storefront get delisted, because of all the fraudulent transactions.

Or, you can prevent trading crowns between players, and make sure that issue isn't a problem to begin with.

AzraelKrieg · August 2016

As the GM of my guild, I run the raffles myself each week. I keep track of all tickets using a spreadsheet, mail the ticket numbers to the members as I go through them, and record the winners each week in the message of the day on the guild screen home tab. I announce the winners in the guild chat as well. Some people win each week as they enter with large amounts. Either they are doing so because they want to win or they are doing so to support the guild. Either way, everyone in the guild knows why the raffle is run.

GreenhaloX · August 2016

Great discussions, guys.. I guess I can give a little bit of credit where it could be due, that maybe those certain guildmasters may not completely understand or have the know-how to do such a raffle correctly or to show the transparency more readily. Then again, maybe some are frauds. I don't really have the means to start up an official investigation or would it even be worth my time to report such to ZOS of such a possibility of a fraud.

However, after some times pondering over it with my self-debate and personal discussion (man, that's pretty bad, isn't it when you start talking to yourself and answering yourself back.. lol), I decided to do right by starting up my own guild and ensure things are done fairly and politically correctly (oh no, I just used that political word, didn't I)... not just for raffles, but in all other aspects as of what a good guild or guildmaster should be about. Let's go for this ride and hope it is a safe and smooth journey.