Creating False Urgency with this "for a limited time" stuff

DarkWombat · July 2016

mlstevens42_ESO wrote: »

There is no urgency. That is my entire point. If you want the item then get the item if you do not then don't. Items in the store are for the most part cosmetic. No one NEEDS cosmetic items. They may look fantastic, might be a piece of meaningless bling to stand in a bank some place and show off but, it is NOT needful. Really so what if person b got the item you didn't does it alter the game at all if they have the Breton cosmetic outfit no...not at all.

Equating this to holding my child hostage is not called for and I do find this comparison to be horribly offensive. These things are not even remotely the same. This is bling digital bling in a GAME. These in game things none of them serve any purpose in the real world at all.

You don't get a thing do you? There is no urgency for YOU. For others, yes. And some people will be sucked into getting it simply because it is a "last minute offer" etc.

No one NEEDS this, but that is not what I am talking about. I never said anything here was "needed". Your responses are completely off on two fronts!

Finally if person B gets the item fine, good for them. I just thought these kinds of practices were above Zenimax and Bethesda. I have always held them to higher standards. And before someone says this game is not Bethesda, it is produced by them and yes, it is ultimately a Bethesda product.

Wreuntzylla · July 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

CapnPhoton wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

I think people often forget that at the end of the day this is a company trying to increase revenue like all companies. Does it really matter if they want to sell things for however long they want? Either you want it and you buy it or you don't and won't buy it. I think of it as an impulse buy like the stuff on the counter when checking out at a convenience store.

This sums it up. If you are in business you understand this statement. Why and how does a company try to make money? Advertising, special or limited offers, etc...this can't possibly be the first time you have every seen this. As for getting fussy about something companies have been doing for a long time, its a bit of an over reaction.

The question is - would you rather have your games made by companies like CD Project Red who strive to earn money by providing the best product possible thus gaining long term customer loyalty or like EA who try to earn money by tricking their customers to buy crap with marketing ploys.

This is the point I was going to make. Elder Scrolls historically has been a niche game with incredibly loyal fans. Everything Bethesda worked hard to build, all the goodwill they have fostered and the reputation they have grown, destroyed almost overnight by adopting K-Mart's Blue Light Special philosophy (that even K-Mart eventually dumped).

Some people wear gold lame yoga pants with a tiger print, but the target market isn't exactly uptown. Elder Scrolls was a Cartier, now they are 7-Eleven.

I don't think the next TES game will operate like this. They're using tactics common to a lot of MMO's. I'm not defending that but I do think one has to realize the MMO product is not the same as the standalone series.

It doesn't matter. A brand is associated with all the products under the brand. If Cartier runs both high end and low end stores, and is associated with both high end and low end jewelry, the high end stores will lose business and perhaps even be forced to close. People don't buy Cartier for just quality jewelry. Similarly, Elder Scrolls die hards haven't stuck it out with Beth just because it's a great (niche) game.

However, I'm not sure you are correct as to spillover. I'm betting the dumbing down of the elder scrolls series you see here will carry into the other segments as ZoS looks to mainstream Elder Scrolls.

Phinix1 · July 2016

Phinix1 wrote: »

reclaimervii.sierra117ub17_ESO wrote: »

Nice response! Mind telling me what the book is called?

Aldous Huxley - Ends and Means

Not to imply Zenimax is some extreme example of a supremely greedy corporation.

"There are worse masters. Far worse!" - Molag Bal

I simply feel compelled to take a contrary stance whenever I see people publicly espousing the notion that anything done for the sake of profit must necessarily be "OK" or acceptable. Even by implication, this logic is flawed and damaging.

There are laws for a reason. Just like an arresting officer doesn't have authority to pass judgement. They might like to imagine that they do, but legally, there is no basis for that assumption. Their function is to keep the peace, to protect the innocent, and make an arrest when warranted.

The courts decide if and what action is warranted.

So it is with corporations and profit and the claim that anything done for the sake of greed "creates jobs" or "stimulates the economy" or whatever else. There is no evidence to support that it does and regardless, it does not justify any action which is unethical, fraudulent, or otherwise illegal.

This is all that is meant by the ends justifying the means in this example.

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

A fundamental misunderstanding of capitalism as a mode of production.

May I suggest putting down the Huxley (just momentarily) and reading Postmodernism, or, the Cultural Logic of Late Capitalism by Frederic Jameson.

I believe Gene Roddenberry referred to it as "The Age of the Post-Industrial Barbarian."

I'll check out the material but in a nutshell, postmodern capitalism has tended towards MONOPOLY. In any system, such disproportional distribution of essential resources always tends towards corruption, chaos, and ultimately collapse.

There are plenty of examples of human civilizations that have followed a similar pattern and fate.

The key to our civilization and possibly our species surviving this "technological adolescence" as Sagan put it, lies in our ability to recognize what are commodities and what are essential, inalienable human needs. But that is another conversation.

As I have pointed out in the past, the biggest problem I have with the "limited time" sales gimmick is that it punishes people that can't cough up disposable income within the time allotted, regardless of whether they might like to have had a particular item or service.

The Soul Shriven horse for example, hasn't returned to the store in about a year now.

It is in the category of offenses I would consider tacky more than anything, and totally unnecessary. Better to have pages of back catalogue and only put things on sale once in a while.

Certainly not criminal but it doesn't help the company's image at all either, which should be a consideration.

BlackEar · July 2016

phermitgb wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

I think people often forget that at the end of the day this is a company trying to increase revenue like all companies. Does it really matter if they want to sell things for however long they want? Either you want it and you buy it or you don't and won't buy it. I think of it as an impulse buy like the stuff on the counter when checking out at a convenience store.

since you asked... (Does it really matter if they want to sell things for however long they want?...)

Yes, it does matter. Obviously, it doesn't matter *much* - you're right. They're trying to make money, this is a way to make money, I'm not *materially* losing out on a key feature of the game if I don't purchase their costume. My character isn't losing access to a zone, or a skill, or a fundamental piece of gear if I don't purchase the rainbow farting unicorn mount in the allotted window.

But it's still insulting. Not the product itself (although the product itself can be insulting too) - the blatant manipulation. The above tactic is essentially the way you manipulate a small child. If you don't do it now, you won't ever be able to do it again!! Can't tell you how many uninteresting GI Joe figures I bought from Toys R Us (can't do the backwards "R" sorry Toys R Us fans) absolutely convinced that if I came back next week some other kid would have bought them, probably that same kid that bought that Star Wars figure I wanted and have never seen again, and they'd be gone and I'd never see them again anywhere so I have to buy them now, even if I don't really want them all that badly.

Erhem...

anyway, my point is - The general impression ZOS leaves in the mouths of myself, and, judging by how often this issue comes up, at least a significant minority of the community - the general impression is that ZOS essentially sees us as particularly gullible toddlers (or, alternatively, parents *with* particularly gullible toddlers that need to be placated from time to time - which is nothing to be ashamed of - we all mostly expect toddlers to be, for the most part, pretty gullible)

so, to answer the question you may have only been rhetorically asking...yes, it matters. It's personally insulting to be treated this way, as well as *minorly* materially inconvenient to have to make falsely once-in-a-liftetime choices about whether or not to purchase something you weren't particularly excited about, but may never have the chance to decide on again ever in the future. It's manipulation, it's fairly transparent, and it is, as far as we can tell, TOTALLY UNNECESSARY except as a heavy handed, unsubtle tactic to drive up sales. It's cheap, lazy salesmanship, and it ought to be beneath the dignity of ZOS to employ as a thuggish level tactic. The fact that it isn't, is both demeaning to the player base AND to ZOS...

at least, in my eyes. Of course, your mileage on my perception may vary.

There is no reason adults should not be treated like children when they act no better than them

this forum proves it perfectly. As for the topic, maybe you find it insulting, I don't. I understand why they do it and if it helps bring in revenue by all means. I just hope that revenue goes into improving the game.

bedlom · July 2016

Yeah it definitely works!
TBH I knew I didn't want the Breton hero costume or doom wolf.

And yet just because I got the cash to throw away and mainly because there limited.

I just had to buy em even though deep down I know I will very rarely (if ever) use em.
I have yet to see another player make the Breton hero look good ( and I have seen a few now)

Wolfshead · July 2016

DarkWombat wrote: »

It's really disappointing Zenimax is going the cheap infomercial route and using the age old trick of creating false urgency to get you to purchase things from the Crown Store. There is no way some of these items are only available for a lousy 4 days.

Elder Scrolls Online is doing well now. Why the need to go this route? It's a lowbrow mechanic.

Do know that most MMO that have cash shop do use this feature with limited thing but the do change the when big patch or content hit look a SWTOR with each new content the basically remove thing in there cash shop and new thing the problem we have is ZoS add new content every 3 month which mean the item in our crown store dont stay there very long time.

Ep1kMalware · July 2016

look, everybody, just 1 question:

Did they, or did they not announcr this wolf mount and costume at rhe beginning of the month woth the exact date it would be for sale. Iird they even announced it would be limited time weeks in advance.

there was absolutely no urgency, we've all had a long, long time to debate buying it. my mind was made up 2-3 months ago when it was initially datamined.

i mean REALLLLLLY, cmon

Darkstorne · July 2016

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

look, everybody, just 1 question:

Did they, or did they not announcr this wolf mount and costume at rhe beginning of the month woth the exact date it would be for sale. Iird they even announced it would be limited time weeks in advance.

there was absolutely no urgency, we've all had a long, long time to debate buying it. my mind was made up 2-3 months ago when it was initially datamined.

i mean REALLLLLLY, cmon

That's not how it works. The limited sale time creates a perceived sense of extra value. It's not the length of time we have to make the purchase decision, but the fact that it's only on sale temporarily creates a false sense of heightened value.

I don't mind the tactic. We're all smart enough to know what's going on, and in a way I like knowing that if I DO like one of the limited offers (the Clouded Senche for example) it's awesome to see that I'm one of the very few people using it months later. It doesn't convince me to buy items I wouldn't otherwise want though.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · July 2016

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Did they, or did they not announcr this wolf mount and costume at rhe beginning of the month woth the exact date it would be for sale. Iird they even announced it would be limited time weeks in advance.

How much of the ESO player base follows the forums, internet announcements etc? I ask because when I talk to my guildies--it depends on the guild but I usually hear from someone to whom the next upcoming thing is news.

Ep1kMalware · July 2016

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Did they, or did they not announcr this wolf mount and costume at rhe beginning of the month woth the exact date it would be for sale. Iird they even announced it would be limited time weeks in advance.

How much of the ESO player base follows the forums, internet announcements etc? I ask because when I talk to my guildies--it depends on the guild but I usually hear from someone to whom the next upcoming thing is news.

That's a good question tbh. Usually I hear about something in guildhat or someone posts something in the fb group, I don't think it's that uncommon.

I do think this thing has gotten carried a bit far. (and degenerately vulgar, as zos based threads often do). It seems like this company can't do anything right, even announcing exclusive sales a month a head of time with exact availability dates. It's no different than yogurt going on sale at the store.

Yes, it's there to push sales. Has anyome seen the recently datamined costumes yet? there's a lot of stuff comming out, whu stress over this. Every public business ever has limited time offers, I don't understand why zos is getting singled out and berrated over an every day norm, from what I can see are mainly people who play the base game and arent reoccurimg customers.

today I bought some jimmydean sausage from the store, it was clearence (limited time offer) and some promotional limited energy drinks from the gas station. guys, ifyou'd lije to take an angry mob and berrate the employees of these businesses for an every day norm, goodluck explaining that to 'the guards'. because life is not a fantady roleplaying fairy tale at the end of the day.

stewhead2ub17_ESO · July 2016

@Wreuntzylla "This is the point I was going to make. Elder Scrolls historically has been a niche game with incredibly loyal fans. Everything Bethesda worked hard to build, all the goodwill they have fostered and the reputation they have grown, destroyed almost overnight by adopting K-Mart's Blue Light Special philosophy (that even K-Mart eventually dumped).

Some people wear gold lame yoga pants with a tiger print, but the target market isn't exactly uptown. Elder Scrolls was a Cartier, now they are 7-Eleven.

"Destroyed almost overnight"? According to who? You. You seem to come off kind of snobbish with your above statement. Those yoga pants might be 7-eleven to you but Cartier to someone else. Time to dismantle your soapbox.

AhPook_Is_Here · July 2016

These kinds of threads seem so odd to me; ZoS is a company trying to make a buck and this is what their marketing people believe works. If you guys haven't noticed you are playing a game called life, and the goal of that game is to find people who have money, the only thing of true "quantitative-value" in this world, and find ways to take it from them. The trick to this "taking" is you have to do it in a framework of tier based rules that define your range of actions depending on your social class and type of entity you are or are an agent on behalf of such as a corporation, institution or nation-state. Bottom line without getting into too much process, if they are making money they are winning the macro game we are all playing and that should be enough for them.

captainwolfos · July 2016

I do find it kind of skeevy, yeah, but I doubt they're gonna change how they do things until enough people complain about it. And, as it stands with this particular issue, I honestly don't think enough people care about it to complain.

My main issue is with how they choose things to come down from the Crown Store.

The Nightmare horse (I can't remember the exact name but you all know which one I mean), for example, has been in the Crown Store literally since its inception. It's still there, it's not been on sale, and it doesn't seem to be in any danger of being removed.

The Treasure Hunter outfit, the Toxin Doctor costume... they've barely been in the Crown Store two months. I... don't understand the logic.

These days I only ever get things if they're on sale, or if I'm lucky enough to have money when the Crowns themselves are on sale, so I'm probably not going to get either of those costumes, much as I busted a nut when I saw the Toxin Doctor costume really want them.

danno8 · July 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Same goes for real antique furniture - you can live for decades with those and when you'll sell them, you will get a lot more than when you bought them, even if you take inflation and such into account - those are investments, not just goods.

That's why grandma and grandpa kept the plastic on them all those years. They knew what they were doing. They knew the value of taking care of your stuff and not throwing it away the second something else came along that was newer.

We have become such a throw-away society it almost boggles the mind. Printer has problems? Throw it away. Couch popped a spring? Go buy a new couch. Our grandparents would flip if they saw the incredible waste we produce.

Of course that comes from living through times where there were serious constraints on goods, and you had to cherish what you had. Most people today (myself included) have no idea what that is like.

Anyway, to the OP, if someone has impulse issues then maybe they should just ignore the store altogether. Limited-time only is just a way of keeping things fresh more than anything else. I have no problem with it.

Lysette · July 2016

danno8 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Same goes for real antique furniture - you can live for decades with those and when you'll sell them, you will get a lot more than when you bought them, even if you take inflation and such into account - those are investments, not just goods.

That's why grandma and grandpa kept the plastic on them all those years. They knew what they were doing. They knew the value of taking care of your stuff and not throwing it away the second something else came along that was newer.

We have become such a throw-away society it almost boggles the mind. Printer has problems? Throw it away. Couch popped a spring? Go buy a new couch. Our grandparents would flip if they saw the incredible waste we produce.

Of course that comes from living through times where there were serious constraints on goods, and you had to cherish what you had. Most people today (myself included) have no idea what that is like.

Anyway, to the OP, if someone has impulse issues then maybe they should just ignore the store altogether. Limited-time only is just a way of keeping things fresh more than anything else. I have no problem with it.

I was talking about real antiques, not stuff from our grand parents - pieces from the 19th century, Biedermeier, british, spanish or portuguese colonial style, spanish baroque or renaissance - well maintained, not stored away - furniture to live in, while it is at the same time an investment.

LadyNalcarya · July 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

When was the last time you saw the drugar polymorph? No one bothers with common items it's all about what's rare at the time. Take the Dro M'artha senche to a stater zone and people do nothing but message you ask how you get it. You tell them it was time limited and boom thr next item that comes up they jump on it. Damn zos has me working for them now.

Draugr polymorph is not terribly popular, yes. But this might be related to its uglyness.

Cause I see a lot of people wearing "common" bellydancer outfits...

Armitas · July 2016

It needs an "Act Now" bonus where they double... no... triple our order.

Wreuntzylla · July 2016

danno8 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Same goes for real antique furniture - you can live for decades with those and when you'll sell them, you will get a lot more than when you bought them, even if you take inflation and such into account - those are investments, not just goods.

That's why grandma and grandpa kept the plastic on them all those years. They knew what they were doing. They knew the value of taking care of your stuff and not throwing it away the second something else came along that was newer.

We have become such a throw-away society it almost boggles the mind. Printer has problems? Throw it away. Couch popped a spring? Go buy a new couch. Our grandparents would flip if they saw the incredible waste we produce.

Of course that comes from living through times where there were serious constraints on goods, and you had to cherish what you had. Most people today (myself included) have no idea what that is like.

Anyway, to the OP, if someone has impulse issues then maybe they should just ignore the store altogether. Limited-time only is just a way of keeping things fresh more than anything else. I have no problem with it.

The disposable goods era was ushered in by post-WWII corporations that intended your goods to fail in a certain amount of time. Anyone who has taken a statistics DOE class has run into the light bulb problem or one similar to that. The problem asks you to determine the average and median threshold time under which people notice that they are frequently replacing light bulbs, to select a material for the bulb filament based on the result and to determine the cost difference between long and short lifetime bulbs. The experiment is credited to Westinghouse and is basically there to show you that more expensive materials are used in products so that they fail within a predictable period of time, even where the less expensive materials may increase the lifetime of the bulb to years or decades.

In other words, you can't really blame consumers for this one.

Ep1kMalware · July 2016

captainwolfos wrote: »

I do find it kind of skeevy, yeah, but I doubt they're gonna change how they do things until enough people complain about it. And, as it stands with this particular issue, I honestly don't think enough people care about it to complain.

My main issue is with how they choose things to come down from the Crown Store.

The Nightmare horse (I can't remember the exact name but you all know which one I mean), for example, has been in the Crown Store literally since its inception. It's still there, it's not been on sale, and it doesn't seem to be in any danger of being removed.

The Treasure Hunter outfit, the Toxin Doctor costume... they've barely been in the Crown Store two months. I... don't understand the logic.

These days I only ever get things if they're on sale, or if I'm lucky enough to have money when the Crowns themselves are on sale, so I'm probably not going to get either of those costumes, much as I busted a nut when I saw the Toxin Doctor costume really want them.

yeah but they're usually cheap as dirt. One work around could be cycling items down in price and then get rid of them. but then again not many would buy these items for their release price

nimander99 · July 2016

How dare Zenimax use tried and true methods of sales in a video game. HOW DARE THEY!

Korah_Eaglecry · July 2016

Its tempting for sure. Especially in regards to things I want out of the store but either havent had the money or the urge to get yet. With how theyve been approaching the quality of things going into the store Im partially tempted not to get any of it. And considering that most of the things that theyre removing are items theyve only recently placed there. Either sales are down, or this is a new tactic to drive up sales on things that would of otherwise trickled in. Theres items in the store that has been in there for a long time and I rarely see them on other players. Yet they arent the ones being removed. So I get the impression that its a new tactic.