Guild trader bids out of control. Need a fix for it.

CombatPrayer · July 2016

Taxes barely (not even close) cover the cost of most bids. Some are costing a million a week for Prime locations. Members end up having to pay thousands themselves to float the cost of these bids and you are there to sell, not to pay. The point of a guild is for players to earn, not to give over all their earnings to pay for a good location. This is not how it was years ago, but over the length of the game, it has become absurdly costly and it continues to worsen.

Simply put, there needs to be more traders at each prime location and new ones need to be created. I am literally taking a tour of the map and here are the ideas I come up with:

Eldenroot - The road to the stables from within the tree - this could easily handle four more traders, probably five.

Rawl'kha - Could easily fit four more traders in front of the wall before you go up to the fighers guild and Waxing Crescent.

That's two hubs that could add eight or ten more traders to the game!

Daggerfall - add two traders next to Lazgara.

Riften - my god, you could easily fit five or six traders inside the city with a few at each gate and three around the area where the wayshrine is.

Auridon - one more in the general vicinity of the first. Lots of room there! Good traffic flow.

The solution is really easy. Placing new traders in these areas could be done with any update, couldn't it? There are simply too few locations and with bids hitting a million for prime locations, that means that across 500 members you would need to collect 2000 taxes per member. That is ABSURD. While many members like myself don't mind getting a raffle ticket to support the guild, it just seems absurd because new players join a merchant guild to MAKE money. As they play when they have more funds, they will be able to support it more, but a million gold to secure a trader in a good location is out of control. There simply has to be more more traders added to prime locations to drive the market down. It's simple economics. Over time, you need to break the monopoly by adding more. This drives the market down and keeps things from growing out of control. And you cannot count these random traders placed throughout the map. They get low foot traffic. Those bids are probably dirt cheap based on the terribly low amount of wares they have. (Truly, I've stopped at some of them and they have maybe two pages. It's not even worth the time to look anymore because they clearly are not being bid on by true trading guilds most of the time).

Please ZOS, add more traders. There is much space to do it. I've hit only the areas I am very familiar with. I'm sure there are ones I've missed because I only have AD characters and don't know how busy other locations before post game. Hopefully others can add some thoughts on locations.

Zerok · July 2016

Let's double the number of guild traders so that instead of taking 1 hour to search for specific stuff, it takes 2 hours.

Fun times ahead.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour · July 2016

That won't help. The best locations are monopolized by the wealthiest guilds. Many control several kiosks at each location. They will just keep out-bidding everyone else on new spots on continue their monopoly. The only 'fix' for this is an auction house and that will never happen.

Mady · July 2016

autumnsongbird wrote: »

Some are costing a million a week

That would actually be 'nice'. Craglorn is way more expensive than one million. But yes it's crazy.

CombatPrayer · July 2016

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

That won't help. The best locations are monopolized by the wealthiest guilds. Many control several kiosks at each location. They will just keep out-bidding everyone else on new spots on continue their monopoly. The only 'fix' for this is an auction house and that will never happen.

If there are more traders to bid on then there will be better prices at some. The wealthiest might grab a few of them, but there will be others that are getting pushed out that will be able to afford the others.

If they do not even attempt a fix it will only get worse. Over a million now is just absurd.

XANTITHESISX · July 2016

autumnsongbird wrote: »

Taxes barely (not even close) cover the cost of most bids. Some are costing a million a week for Prime locations. Members end up having to pay thousands themselves to float the cost of these bids and you are there to sell, not to pay. The point of a guild is for players to earn, not to give over all their earnings to pay for a good location. This is not how it was years ago, but over the length of the game, it has become absurdly costly and it continues to worsen.

Most people that are paying "thousands a week" make hundreds of thousands a week and dont mind paying high dues for prime spots. I do not want a crappy location and not sell any product. I would rather pay more and sell more.

As the saying goes.. you get what you pay for.

Gargath · July 2016

I'm sure this was already discussed and there were some good arguments for yes and no.
While I'd personally like to have all traders in one place, I understand they must be scattered across maps to make me run between tchem in search for items, not just sticking to one trading hub.

For example if you add 4 more traders to existing traders is Rawl'kha, this spot will be sufficient for me (and probably for many more), because it's occupied by some of the best guilds in game with good competitive prices and thus I'll have no reason to go somewhere else. Adding traders to main hubs will decrease interest in minor hubs and also those traders in the wild probably will be no longer visited.

kongkim · July 2016

Its like realy life. The one with the money get the most. Can't see the problem in that as they do pay for it. Also who like to have small trade guild in the main area that don't sell anything good.

But a fix for it could be to make guild ranks and give traders to each rank so not all are top guild.

sekhem · July 2016

Running around looking for stuff is annoying but it would make a huge difference if your search would carry over to the next trader you check out. If I am looking for a nirn bow to research or a particular motif I hate that I have to enter the info each time I check a new trader.

Zerok · July 2016

sekhem wrote: »

Running around looking for stuff is annoying but it would make a huge difference if your search would carry over to the next trader you check out. If I am looking for a nirn bow to research or a particular motif I hate that I have to enter the info each time I check a new trader.

Download Awesome Guild Store. It does just that

sekhem · July 2016

Zerok wrote: »

sekhem wrote: »

Running around looking for stuff is annoying but it would make a huge difference if your search would carry over to the next trader you check out. If I am looking for a nirn bow to research or a particular motif I hate that I have to enter the info each time I check a new trader.

Download Awesome Guild Store. It does just that

I would love that but alas I am on console...

CombatPrayer · July 2016

Zerok wrote: »

sekhem wrote: »

Running around looking for stuff is annoying but it would make a huge difference if your search would carry over to the next trader you check out. If I am looking for a nirn bow to research or a particular motif I hate that I have to enter the info each time I check a new trader.

Download Awesome Guild Store. It does just that

Now that sounds like a great addon. Thanks!

Unsent.Soul · July 2016

If you want a trader stall in a prime location, it costs. Trading guilds rule over basic social guilds, that's common sense. If the guild can't keep up with the cost the only fault lies on the guild that lost the bid.

Don't be upset because some guilds have millions to throw away and some dont. If you expect to just be able to sell wares outside of NPC vendor price, it's going to cost. If you can't make enough back than maybe it's not in your cards.

UltimaJoe777 · July 2016

Guild Traders are a means of selling wares without socializing. When text chat hits consoles then you can use it to sell things if you need to (of course PC has been able to do this already lol). As for the big trading guilds they have 100s of members and charge a fee of each member weekly. Those fees go toward paying for a Guild Trader. Some members even donate more than they need to for the cause! Do we need more Guild Traders? I say it couldn't hurt, but it does have its cons as well as its pros.

Mortehl · July 2016

Do you know what a license to sell hot dogs costs in Central Park in nyc? Starts at 250 -Thousand- per year. Give you one guess why...

Docmandu · July 2016

Mortehl wrote: »

Do you know what a license to sell hot dogs costs in Central Park in nyc? Starts at 250 -Thousand- per year. Give you one guess why...

Must be pretty darn good hot dogs!

Hurika · July 2016

One thing from DAoC was that in the player housing zones you could buy a merchant that sold your stuff from your house. Each housing zone had a central merchant location that would perform your searches for all the houses in housing zone you were in. I'm not suggesting it or saying it would be a good/bad idea - just thought it was interesting in that game. Different game, different economy I realize. Just adding food for thought.

Hutch679 · July 2016

What about having a central auction house made up of trading guilds that purchase rights to sell on the auction house? Everything in one spot with equal opportunity to sell no matter the location. Basically make it so guilds bid on a spot for the auction house.

UltimaJoe777 · July 2016

Hurika wrote: »

One thing from DAoC was that in the player housing zones you could buy a merchant that sold your stuff from your house. Each housing zone had a central merchant location that would perform your searches for all the houses in housing zone you were in. I'm not suggesting it or saying it would be a good/bad idea - just thought it was interesting in that game. Different game, different economy I realize. Just adding food for thought.

This could be taken into consideration I'm sure, but we still don't know enough about player housing to move this concept forward.

Lieblingsjunge · July 2016

Bids mainly sky-rocketed cus guild-leaders are whiny, QQ-y and bring everything to apersonal level "OH?!?!? YOU BID US IN RAWL'KHA? WELL. You and your members are blacklisted from our trading alliance(includes multiple guilds!)". "Oh shait mate, you overbid us. It's war!!"
^That's what's going on on PC/EU anyway. No wonders bid sky-rockets when people are fighting for the same traders. Mainly cus people, for some reason think they got 1st right on certain traders, and they just make a huge war out of it.

Guilds are making alliances - guilds are making wars. So yeah. Blame the GMs if you want to blame anyone.

Also. Bid-system is.... broken. As in, not good, but broken. You got no way of seeing what the other guild you fight against bid. THere's no auction going on. OH AND WAIT - it happens at 4.00 EU/CET in the middle of the night! GREAT.

Seriously. Blame the system, it's not few traders. Its competitive. Just the system sucks.

If anyone of you played Forsaken World - the GvG-bidding system there was amazing. And I honestly wish they would do the same for Guild Traders.

jedtb16_ESO · July 2016

Mortehl wrote: »

Do you know what a license to sell hot dogs costs in Central Park in nyc? Starts at 250 -Thousand- per year. Give you one guess why...

its called competition isn't it? its how most economies work

current situation seems fine.... the richer trade guilds get the better spots. the members of those guilds got rich by having good stuff to sell. the fact that there are other rich guilds close by (thinking craglorn as a for instance) keeps the price on goods competitive. seems fine to me.

what was the question?.

edit to add:

the high price on some of the sites also serves to siphon of some of the gold in game.... helping to keep a cap of the economy.

Tan9oSuccka · July 2016

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Mortehl wrote: »

Do you know what a license to sell hot dogs costs in Central Park in nyc? Starts at 250 -Thousand- per year. Give you one guess why...

its called competition isn't it? its how most economies work

current situation seems fine.... the richer trade guilds get the better spots. the members of those guilds got rich by having good stuff to sell. the fact that there are other rich guilds close by (thinking craglorn as a for instance) keeps the price on goods competitive. seems fine to me.

what was the question?.

I'm afraid its not as simple as you make it out to be.

Paying 5K in dues, and selling 4K weekly is wasted endeavor faced by many in this game.

Since most people lack a simple mechanism called "empathy", the system works just fine (for them), screw everyone else.

jedtb16_ESO · July 2016

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Mortehl wrote: »

Do you know what a license to sell hot dogs costs in Central Park in nyc? Starts at 250 -Thousand- per year. Give you one guess why...

its called competition isn't it? its how most economies work

current situation seems fine.... the richer trade guilds get the better spots. the members of those guilds got rich by having good stuff to sell. the fact that there are other rich guilds close by (thinking craglorn as a for instance) keeps the price on goods competitive. seems fine to me.

what was the question?.

I'm afraid its not as simple as you make it out to be.

Paying 5K in dues, and selling 4K weekly is wasted endeavor faced by many in this game.

Since most people lack a simple mechanism called "empathy", the system works just fine (for them), screw everyone else.

actually its even simpler than i made it out to be..... money goes to money. that's it.

if you are paying 5k to sell 4k then you are either in the wrong place or selling the wrong things - that is not the fault of the system.

and empathy dosn't come into it.

Tan9oSuccka · July 2016

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Mortehl wrote: »

Do you know what a license to sell hot dogs costs in Central Park in nyc? Starts at 250 -Thousand- per year. Give you one guess why...

its called competition isn't it? its how most economies work

current situation seems fine.... the richer trade guilds get the better spots. the members of those guilds got rich by having good stuff to sell. the fact that there are other rich guilds close by (thinking craglorn as a for instance) keeps the price on goods competitive. seems fine to me.

what was the question?.

I'm afraid its not as simple as you make it out to be.

Paying 5K in dues, and selling 4K weekly is wasted endeavor faced by many in this game.

Since most people lack a simple mechanism called "empathy", the system works just fine (for them), screw everyone else.

actually its even simpler than i made it out to be..... money goes to money. that's it.

if you are paying 5k to sell 4k then you are either in the wrong place or selling the wrong things - that is not the fault of the system.

and empathy dosn't come into it.

Your response is perfect. Thank you for validating.

"I make money with the current system, to hell with everyone else."

Did you stop to think that not everyone is selling gold tempers, or other high value materials/motifs? How many people just want to sell a couple recipes each week?

As far as empathy, look past yourself and look at the community as a whole.

Unsent.Soul · July 2016

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Mortehl wrote: »

Do you know what a license to sell hot dogs costs in Central Park in nyc? Starts at 250 -Thousand- per year. Give you one guess why...

its called competition isn't it? its how most economies work

current situation seems fine.... the richer trade guilds get the better spots. the members of those guilds got rich by having good stuff to sell. the fact that there are other rich guilds close by (thinking craglorn as a for instance) keeps the price on goods competitive. seems fine to me.

what was the question?.

I'm afraid its not as simple as you make it out to be.

Paying 5K in dues, and selling 4K weekly is wasted endeavor faced by many in this game.

Since most people lack a simple mechanism called "empathy", the system works just fine (for them), screw everyone else.

actually its even simpler than i made it out to be..... money goes to money. that's it.

if you are paying 5k to sell 4k then you are either in the wrong place or selling the wrong things - that is not the fault of the system.

and empathy dosn't come into it.

Your response is perfect. Thank you for validating.

"I make money with the current system, to hell with everyone else."

Did you stop to think that not everyone is selling gold tempers, or other high value materials/motifs? How many people just want to sell a couple recipes each week?

As far as empathy, look past yourself and look at the community as a whole.

If you want to sell a couple items a week being in a trading guild is worthless. If you don't care or don't have enough items to make a profit, how is that anyone's fault other than your own?

Trading guilds and selling items isn't meant for everyone.... Stop making it seem like it should.

Tan9oSuccka · July 2016

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Mortehl wrote: »

Do you know what a license to sell hot dogs costs in Central Park in nyc? Starts at 250 -Thousand- per year. Give you one guess why...

its called competition isn't it? its how most economies work

current situation seems fine.... the richer trade guilds get the better spots. the members of those guilds got rich by having good stuff to sell. the fact that there are other rich guilds close by (thinking craglorn as a for instance) keeps the price on goods competitive. seems fine to me.

what was the question?.

I'm afraid its not as simple as you make it out to be.

Paying 5K in dues, and selling 4K weekly is wasted endeavor faced by many in this game.

Since most people lack a simple mechanism called "empathy", the system works just fine (for them), screw everyone else.

actually its even simpler than i made it out to be..... money goes to money. that's it.

if you are paying 5k to sell 4k then you are either in the wrong place or selling the wrong things - that is not the fault of the system.

and empathy dosn't come into it.

Your response is perfect. Thank you for validating.

"I make money with the current system, to hell with everyone else."

Did you stop to think that not everyone is selling gold tempers, or other high value materials/motifs? How many people just want to sell a couple recipes each week?

As far as empathy, look past yourself and look at the community as a whole.

If you want to sell a couple items a week being in a trading guild is worthless. If you don't care or don't have enough items to make a profit, how is that anyone's fault other than your own?

Trading guilds and selling items isn't meant for everyone.... Stop making it seem like it should.

Ah yes, so your saying the ability to make fair market gold isn't meant for everyone.

For most people not in a trade guild: How do they sell that extra glass motif? Do you feel 9 gold is a fair price at a Vendor?

Unsent.Soul · July 2016

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Mortehl wrote: »

Do you know what a license to sell hot dogs costs in Central Park in nyc? Starts at 250 -Thousand- per year. Give you one guess why...

its called competition isn't it? its how most economies work

current situation seems fine.... the richer trade guilds get the better spots. the members of those guilds got rich by having good stuff to sell. the fact that there are other rich guilds close by (thinking craglorn as a for instance) keeps the price on goods competitive. seems fine to me.

what was the question?.

I'm afraid its not as simple as you make it out to be.

Paying 5K in dues, and selling 4K weekly is wasted endeavor faced by many in this game.

Since most people lack a simple mechanism called "empathy", the system works just fine (for them), screw everyone else.

actually its even simpler than i made it out to be..... money goes to money. that's it.

if you are paying 5k to sell 4k then you are either in the wrong place or selling the wrong things - that is not the fault of the system.

and empathy dosn't come into it.

Your response is perfect. Thank you for validating.

"I make money with the current system, to hell with everyone else."

Did you stop to think that not everyone is selling gold tempers, or other high value materials/motifs? How many people just want to sell a couple recipes each week?

As far as empathy, look past yourself and look at the community as a whole.

If you want to sell a couple items a week being in a trading guild is worthless. If you don't care or don't have enough items to make a profit, how is that anyone's fault other than your own?

Trading guilds and selling items isn't meant for everyone.... Stop making it seem like it should.

Ah yes, so your saying the ability to make fair market gold isn't meant for everyone.

For most people not in a trade guild: How do they sell that extra glass motif? Do you feel 9 gold is a fair price at a Vendor?

Can you not do it yourself? Jesus do you want me to sell it for you in 1 out of 3 trade guilds I'm in?

Msg people, join area chat, go to large areas and barter with people. If your not willing to do any leg work yourself how can you expect any profit?

When glass motif fragments were just released, I found someone that bought every one I had. We kept this agreement going for a month and I made a lot of gold. Didn't have any traders at that time but I didn't let it stop me or just give up.

Sporvan · July 2016

I think limited guild traders makes people go to more off-beat zones which is a good thing.

The problem doesn't lie with the guild traders, it's the search functionality that needs improvement because players are lazy to go repeat the same hunt in several locations.

Simply add a free text search on Guild Traders and it will be so much easier to hunt multiple locations.

CombatPrayer · July 2016

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

Bids mainly sky-rocketed cus guild-leaders are whiny, QQ-y and bring everything to apersonal level "OH?!?!? YOU BID US IN RAWL'KHA? WELL. You and your members are blacklisted from our trading alliance(includes multiple guilds!)". "Oh shait mate, you overbid us. It's war!!"
^That's what's going on on PC/EU anyway. No wonders bid sky-rockets when people are fighting for the same traders. Mainly cus people, for some reason think they got 1st right on certain traders, and they just make a huge war out of it.

Guilds are making alliances - guilds are making wars. So yeah. Blame the GMs if you want to blame anyone.

Also. Bid-system is.... broken. As in, not good, but broken. You got no way of seeing what the other guild you fight against bid. THere's no auction going on. OH AND WAIT - it happens at 4.00 EU/CET in the middle of the night! GREAT.

Seriously. Blame the system, it's not few traders. Its competitive. Just the system sucks.

If anyone of you played Forsaken World - the GvG-bidding system there was amazing. And I honestly wish they would do the same for Guild Traders.

I don't know about any child like antics that might be going on, but it is simply an issue of supply and demand from my stance. Basic economics. We need MORE traders when there are multiple guilds filled with hundreds of sellers. Part of the issue is that you only get 30 slots. Part of the issue is that you only have limited number of traders in decent locations that get the foot traffic required. We need more traders. If there are so many bid wars then there are clearly prime spots that do not have enough there.

It's for the benefit of everyone to have more traders because then we have more options to buy stuff we want. I am in one guild that I think is very good. I like it a lot. They have lost bids in rawlka and then in elden root and now I don't even know where we are but it's a good guild as best as I can tell. People are leaving because they lost bids. I've sold around 10k in a week there without even really going crazy because it was my first week with them. But something is broken in the system when a good guild loses good spots but still sells quite a bit and holds raffles. More spots are needed.

jedtb16_ESO · July 2016

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Mortehl wrote: »

Do you know what a license to sell hot dogs costs in Central Park in nyc? Starts at 250 -Thousand- per year. Give you one guess why...

its called competition isn't it? its how most economies work

current situation seems fine.... the richer trade guilds get the better spots. the members of those guilds got rich by having good stuff to sell. the fact that there are other rich guilds close by (thinking craglorn as a for instance) keeps the price on goods competitive. seems fine to me.

what was the question?.

I'm afraid its not as simple as you make it out to be.

Paying 5K in dues, and selling 4K weekly is wasted endeavor faced by many in this game.

Since most people lack a simple mechanism called "empathy", the system works just fine (for them), screw everyone else.

actually its even simpler than i made it out to be..... money goes to money. that's it.

if you are paying 5k to sell 4k then you are either in the wrong place or selling the wrong things - that is not the fault of the system.

and empathy dosn't come into it.

Your response is perfect. Thank you for validating.

"I make money with the current system, to hell with everyone else."

Did you stop to think that not everyone is selling gold tempers, or other high value materials/motifs? How many people just want to sell a couple recipes each week?

As far as empathy, look past yourself and look at the community as a whole.

priceless....

i'm not in a trade guild. in fact have been out of the game for about a year, returned recently. i have had a good look round - game has changed a bit but the economy hasn't. prices generally are pretty much how i remember them and that is a good thing - no crazy inflation that you see in other games because people have too much gold.

everything should change because you want to sell a recipe? gimme a break. no i have no empathy for that because it is not a valid reason to change a system that works.

Tan9oSuccka · July 2016

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Mortehl wrote: »

Do you know what a license to sell hot dogs costs in Central Park in nyc? Starts at 250 -Thousand- per year. Give you one guess why...

its called competition isn't it? its how most economies work

current situation seems fine.... the richer trade guilds get the better spots. the members of those guilds got rich by having good stuff to sell. the fact that there are other rich guilds close by (thinking craglorn as a for instance) keeps the price on goods competitive. seems fine to me.

what was the question?.

I'm afraid its not as simple as you make it out to be.

Paying 5K in dues, and selling 4K weekly is wasted endeavor faced by many in this game.

Since most people lack a simple mechanism called "empathy", the system works just fine (for them), screw everyone else.

actually its even simpler than i made it out to be..... money goes to money. that's it.

if you are paying 5k to sell 4k then you are either in the wrong place or selling the wrong things - that is not the fault of the system.

and empathy dosn't come into it.

Your response is perfect. Thank you for validating.

"I make money with the current system, to hell with everyone else."

Did you stop to think that not everyone is selling gold tempers, or other high value materials/motifs? How many people just want to sell a couple recipes each week?

As far as empathy, look past yourself and look at the community as a whole.

If you want to sell a couple items a week being in a trading guild is worthless. If you don't care or don't have enough items to make a profit, how is that anyone's fault other than your own?

Trading guilds and selling items isn't meant for everyone.... Stop making it seem like it should.

Ah yes, so your saying the ability to make fair market gold isn't meant for everyone.

For most people not in a trade guild: How do they sell that extra glass motif? Do you feel 9 gold is a fair price at a Vendor?

Can you not do it yourself? Jesus do you want me to sell it for you in 1 out of 3 trade guilds I'm in?

Msg people, join area chat, go to large areas and barter with people. If your not willing to do any leg work yourself how can you expect any profit?

When glass motif fragments were just released, I found someone that bought every one I had. We kept this agreement going for a month and I made a lot of gold. Didn't have any traders at that time but I didn't let it stop me or just give up.

I'm speaking hypothetically. I'm in some trade guilds and do very, very well for myself.

I'm thinking of the majority of players that aren't in the 6-10 guilds that are well run and get good locations from week to week.

Your recommendations are noble and possible, it seems that a better system should be implemented.