This is Why Leaderboards Breed Pettiness

Wifeaggro13 · July 2016

xblackroxe wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

So last night/this morning, I get invited by someone to tag along in a Veteran CP160 run of Sanctum Ophidia. Being as I love the trial, I agree to tag along as a damage dealer. Keep in mind I barely know 3 of the people in the group of 12, but still. It's not an issue. And I'm welcomed.

On the first boss, we wipe once and people quickly get their act together and straighten up. Okay cool. We get it done. Second boss comes along? We get it done, and on the first try. Third boss comes along, and we wipe constantly due to tank shoddy positioning and the raid leader acting erratic. But! We eventually somehow cheese it, and complete it after 5-7 wipes.

Now I want you to keep in mind, my headset isn't at home with me. And I haven't said a single word this whole time to anyone. And this is fine up until the last boss. Same with another person, and 1 of the people I slightly know. M'kay? So all the while in the group of 12, 2 people haven't spoken at all. And 1 person is barely speaking due to them dealing with health issues. Actually, the other person who hasn't spoken at all alongside me had a throat medical issue. Which is why they hadn't talked at all either. But anyway, it's all cool until this point.

So we get to the Serpent, and everyone is cocky and says to do it on "hard mode". People are cocky. And the raid leader agrees. Then the steady wipes start occurring right and left. Back after back. People getting sloppy, and people not following mechanics. After a while, people start saying they're going to bed and leaving. This is because it was really late in the morning, and I suppose people had to go. But then, "it" happened.

I notice those of us who barely talked slowly getting removed out of nowhere, and being told how they supposedly had to go to bed. I then get a message from the person who invited me that the raid group wants me to leave, because I haven't been using my mic. Even though I've been carrying my own weight, and the slack of a few people. I have died less than the supposed "pros" and leaderboard "masters", but that is irrelevant. A huge deal is made that I am quiet. Then as more members from a guild of "leaderboard pros and masters" start taking the spots of those who left, my silence is made an even bigger deal of. And this group wants me gone badly, according to the person who invited me. Me not talking is a huge issue.

After a while, the person who invited me claimed he got people to lay off my case but no. I didn't stay, and choose to leave. It was petty how they behaved, and I honestly felt used and miserable. I say there and used my pots, carried the slack of others, and went above and beyond what was asked of me. But because I didn't talk, and some "leaderboard pros" show up suddenly I have to go on the final boss? Really? I do all that hard work and repair kits and lots used mean nothing? Soul gems I used to resurrect some of these "pros", who didn't even come prepared with soul gems. And now they dare open their mouths and try and chump me like that? When we are on the last boss, and after I've done so much? My work means nothing, and was just a build-up to show-off to the so-called "pros" who are gonna take my spot? Even though most of them didn't: Come prepared, follow mechanics, and died tons of times more than I did? It felt horrible, and still does waking up this morning.

And that is exactly why I tend to solo, and only will do things with groups of people I know who don't believe they are above everyone else. I get asked all the time to join raid guilds and "pro guilds", and always decline. Because pettiness like this happens far too much, and I don't have the patience to tolerate it. And it's also why I hate the fact leaderboards exist and titles exist. Because it always breeds toxic behavior in people, and makes them feel superior to everyone.

I do not agree with the way ZOS designed this system. Its worse in trials the whole thing is tied to how fast you run through the Trial. it has nothing to do with how clean the run went. This whole game is designed around DPS it was a poor choice . in all honesty the game design is worse then games that were released 10 to 15 years ago in this respect. You nailed the core problem the game does not require you build friendships and develop team work to accomplish a common interest goal. all 12 players try to get the highest DPS, and post how much better they are then the other. No on has to play a class , just DPS the highest and run to the next boss.

Sounds like QQ from someone thats not on par with his dps.

no i play a Tank actually.I just prefer content that requires more roles then DPS. I dont think the leader board is a bad idea but its all based on DPS. It has nothing to do with anything else then running through the zone and producing high damage. Nothing wrong with having the role of Leeet DPS it is for players like you that like to prove your manhood with numbers in a video game lol. But let me Educate you in the older generations of MMO's that had more roles then this DPS role you so cherish.
1). the Tank. you see the tank was the quarterback. he was not just a taunt the mob guy . he used several types of Pulling Body Pulling LOS pulling and leash pulling. he looked at the Pull, figured out the kill order Told the Crowd control to CC certain mobs after he taunted and made sure that the target was far away from the things CC they did not break due to Damage. this role required Skill , thought and knowledge not a DPS rotation.

2) Was CC (crowd control) this role was by far the most important roll in group content . this person was in charge of keeping the healer and DPS safe making sure the mobs were controlled and unable to hurt the Players that could not soak damage and drain healer resources. in many cases they also increased player damage as well with Buffs and haste to attacks.

3) Healing and Off healing those are self explanatory this role needs very little explanation for you. it was about keeping everyone alive pre buffing the tank, and managing their resources to endure the fight.

This type of combat required great team work fostered long lasting friendships and actually only the most skilled players conquered the end game content . they had to play their roles extremely well.

so your attempt to ridicule me and and say my DPS sucks which is exactly what you probably do when ever your in a group and you dont immediately win leave the group and blame others for the bad run.If you were a Elite player you would stick it our with new player and teach them the dungeons and fights. See your the type of player ZOS is catering to with the Dumbing down of the group content Like ICP and WGT VCOA . you see i don't enjoy the DPS role i like to play tank and support roles. I find DPS boring. If you would like i can log in and link all my Achievements on V content. I am certain the Dates i accomplished this content ar far earlier then your own . i am guessing as i was a Closed Beta tester and a launch player. My dates are what would be considered a player that pioneered the content.

But i did enjoy your DPS shame attempt , I simply want the game to be better. Having everyone just DPS is quite boring is all.

Ep1kMalware · July 2016

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

So last night/this morning, I get invited by someone to tag along in a Veteran CP160 run of Sanctum Ophidia. Being as I love the trial, I agree to tag along as a damage dealer. Keep in mind I barely know 3 of the people in the group of 12, but still. It's not an issue. And I'm welcomed.

On the first boss, we wipe once and people quickly get their act together and straighten up. Okay cool. We get it done. Second boss comes along? We get it done, and on the first try. Third boss comes along, and we wipe constantly due to tank shoddy positioning and the raid leader acting erratic. But! We eventually somehow cheese it, and complete it after 5-7 wipes.

Now I want you to keep in mind, my headset isn't at home with me. And I haven't said a single word this whole time to anyone. And this is fine up until the last boss. Same with another person, and 1 of the people I slightly know. M'kay? So all the while in the group of 12, 2 people haven't spoken at all. And 1 person is barely speaking due to them dealing with health issues. Actually, the other person who hasn't spoken at all alongside me had a throat medical issue. Which is why they hadn't talked at all either. But anyway, it's all cool until this point.

So we get to the Serpent, and everyone is cocky and says to do it on "hard mode". People are cocky. And the raid leader agrees. Then the steady wipes start occurring right and left. Back after back. People getting sloppy, and people not following mechanics. After a while, people start saying they're going to bed and leaving. This is because it was really late in the morning, and I suppose people had to go. But then, "it" happened.

I notice those of us who barely talked slowly getting removed out of nowhere, and being told how they supposedly had to go to bed. I then get a message from the person who invited me that the raid group wants me to leave, because I haven't been using my mic. Even though I've been carrying my own weight, and the slack of a few people. I have died less than the supposed "pros" and leaderboard "masters", but that is irrelevant. A huge deal is made that I am quiet. Then as more members from a guild of "leaderboard pros and masters" start taking the spots of those who left, my silence is made an even bigger deal of. And this group wants me gone badly, according to the person who invited me. Me not talking is a huge issue.

After a while, the person who invited me claimed he got people to lay off my case but no. I didn't stay, and choose to leave. It was petty how they behaved, and I honestly felt used and miserable. I say there and used my pots, carried the slack of others, and went above and beyond what was asked of me. But because I didn't talk, and some "leaderboard pros" show up suddenly I have to go on the final boss? Really? I do all that hard work and repair kits and lots used mean nothing? Soul gems I used to resurrect some of these "pros", who didn't even come prepared with soul gems. And now they dare open their mouths and try and chump me like that? When we are on the last boss, and after I've done so much? My work means nothing, and was just a build-up to show-off to the so-called "pros" who are gonna take my spot? Even though most of them didn't: Come prepared, follow mechanics, and died tons of times more than I did? It felt horrible, and still does waking up this morning.

And that is exactly why I tend to solo, and only will do things with groups of people I know who don't believe they are above everyone else. I get asked all the time to join raid guilds and "pro guilds", and always decline. Because pettiness like this happens far too much, and I don't have the patience to tolerate it. And it's also why I hate the fact leaderboards exist and titles exist. Because it always breeds toxic behavior in people, and makes them feel superior to everyone.

I do not agree with the way ZOS designed this system. Its worse in trials the whole thing is tied to how fast you run through the Trial. it has nothing to do with how clean the run went. This whole game is designed around DPS it was a poor choice . in all honesty the game design is worse then games that were released 10 to 15 years ago in this respect. You nailed the core problem the game does not require you build friendships and develop team work to accomplish a common interest goal. all 12 players try to get the highest DPS, and post how much better they are then the other. No on has to play a class , just DPS the highest and run to the next boss.

Sounds like QQ from someone thats not on par with his dps.

no i play a Tank actually.I just prefer content that requires more roles then DPS. I dont think the leader board is a bad idea but its all based on DPS. It has nothing to do with anything else then running through the zone and producing high damage. Nothing wrong with having the role of Leeet DPS it is for players like you that like to prove your manhood with numbers in a video game lol. But let me Educate you in the older generations of MMO's that had more roles then this DPS role you so cherish.
1). the Tank. you see the tank was the quarterback. he was not just a taunt the mob guy . he used several types of Pulling Body Pulling LOS pulling and leash pulling. he looked at the Pull, figured out the kill order Told the Crowd control to CC certain mobs after he taunted and made sure that the target was far away from the things CC they did not break due to Damage. this role required Skill , thought and knowledge not a DPS rotation.

2) Was CC (crowd control) this role was by far the most important roll in group content . this person was in charge of keeping the healer and DPS safe making sure the mobs were controlled and unable to hurt the Players that could not soak damage and drain healer resources. in many cases they also increased player damage as well with Buffs and haste to attacks.

3) Healing and Off healing those are self explanatory this role needs very little explanation for you. it was about keeping everyone alive pre buffing the tank, and managing their resources to endure the fight.

This type of combat required great team work fostered long lasting friendships and actually only the most skilled players conquered the end game content . they had to play their roles extremely well.

so your attempt to ridicule me and and say my DPS sucks which is exactly what you probably do when ever your in a group and you dont immediately win leave the group and blame others for the bad run.If you were a Elite player you would stick it our with new player and teach them the dungeons and fights. See your the type of player ZOS is catering to with the Dumbing down of the group content Like ICP and WGT VCOA . you see i don't enjoy the DPS role i like to play tank and support roles. I find DPS boring. If you would like i can log in and link all my Achievements on V content. I am certain the Dates i accomplished this content ar far earlier then your own . i am guessing as i was a Closed Beta tester and a launch player. My dates are what would be considered a player that pioneered the content.

But i did enjoy your DPS shame attempt , I simply want the game to be better. Having everyone just DPS is quite boring is all.

you are very wrong, and incredibly dense if you believe this is true. fps is probably last in importancd for leaderboard scores.

list of important factors in (not always exact) estimated priority.

1: know your group. everyone yas the same function, does the same thing, every time. every time you rehearse the trial each player as an individual improves their role to boost their teams effectiveness.

2: coordination. armour is planned out so that effects synergize, buffs/debuffs are coordinated so that nothing is wasted. teamates announce ultimates/rezzes. Ties into first one, but for lamia fight in vso we all have EXACT placements we rush to EVERY time, never different. we are in charge of unpinning the EXACT same people EVERY time. But sometimes you get an oopsie and you have to know when to make a situational alteration to your methods, and coordinate it with the team.

3: gear everything helps, everything. but this is really an icing on the cake thing. our gear is planned, so are our ultimates, but as long as it's decent amd you know what you are doing it's not game changing as a whole.

4: communication: it's optimal to tell group members what you are doing, it helps with coordination a lot. but if everyone knows what to do and is good at it, you don't havw to talk to anybody at all for the most part.

5: threat assessment and mapping. You knoe which enemies to taunt/kill first. you know where they spawn, and how they move.

6: mechanics. I put this waaay down here because fpr leaderboard scores you should probably already know them. but it is still mandatory knowledge for these harder trials.

7: DPS. Yup, dead last. you can have crap dps and get a good score. you can gave crap dps and beat the trial. obviously time-to-complete affects your trial score (but it is not everything). Obviously higher dps will help, but the truth is it will only get tou so far. dps doesn't matter when you disband at the 1st or 3rd boss every time. As It doesn't matter what your dps is if you don't know the mechanics, people scatter, pull addgroups prematurely, or generally don't work well together. DPS doesn't matter if you have that one guy in hel ra screaming as loud as possible into the mic about how much you all suck and need to sell your console because (he) in particular, keeps blowing your group to kingdom come every time he is encase.

dps is what helps make a good team faster, but as you can COMPLETE all content with incredibly low dps, it is NOT what geta you top leaderboard scores.

You have to be am ignorant moron to think "oh the tank died, I'll just use my dps skills before the rest of us die lololol. Or maybe: oh half my team is pinned, don't unpin, that's a dps loss!

it doesn't matter how awesome your dps is if 80% of your team gets clocked out by manticora's overcharge, or you don't have a strategy for portals. you can pull 1mil dps but if you can''t get passed that boss then it doesn't matter at all does it.

Threads like this are garbage. Here is why: people who don't care and find reasons to be upset on purpose are here whining, sticking fingers in their ears, and singing lalalala while people who work good as a team are beating this content while you are not. Tbh, anh helpful posts in threads like these are pearls before swine.

willymchilybily · July 2016

timidobserver wrote: »

I recently started console gaming and I have found that console gamers are sticklers about mics compared to PC players.

There is no other way to communicate on PS4...

no text chat, no ready checks, no damage numbers, you weren't there man, you didn't live through what we lived through. You dont know what it was like in those days!

A broken PS4 message service, (for the first 6 to 8 months of TESO release)
PS4 and Xbox have group limits,
in game broken dungeon finder every patch, and no TextChat to LFG dungeon
No LFG/ dungeon finder for trials and no TextChat to LFG trials
Guild traders bought up by PC cross overs who had the funds, and no TextChat to WTB/WTS option
no way to Join a guild in game, no guild sign up in game, no way to even know what a guild does. PvP/PvE/Trade/RP/Social and no TextChat for guild recruitment/finding

We are the "Sticklers" that our environment made us. Most not on mic that wanted to do more than solo around in an MMO died out months ago. Its like a social experiment for a modern day equivalent of Darwinism. Adapt or die. is it any wonder those who remain took to the only possible form of communication available to them?

@Ch4mpTW sorry to hear you joined some ungrateful players. But to be fair, when things aren't going well even if its no one in particulars fault, people cling to anything they think will help.

That said. i do believe you NEED to be able to HEAR the chat even if you don't respond.

it's important for "on the fly" changes and flexibility. That i think is fair. You need to be in chat even if you don't partake. which it sounds like you weren't, I expect you weren't kicked not only because of the raid lead but you knew what you were doing and gave a solid performance else he wouldn't have a leg to stand on arguing against kicking you.

Don't take it too harshly buddy. Its just herd mentality and disgruntled players who do not work together frequently enough to perform well as a cohesive unit (yet) you have to get use to each others play styles, and the top leaderboard players probably are use to a lot of buffing and debuffing and other players running support sets/skills/ultimates when they play.