This is Why Leaderboards Breed Pettiness

Ch4mpTW · July 2016

So last night/this morning, I get invited by someone to tag along in a Veteran CP160 run of Sanctum Ophidia. Being as I love the trial, I agree to tag along as a damage dealer. Keep in mind I barely know 3 of the people in the group of 12, but still. It's not an issue. And I'm welcomed.

On the first boss, we wipe once and people quickly get their act together and straighten up. Okay cool. We get it done. Second boss comes along? We get it done, and on the first try. Third boss comes along, and we wipe constantly due to tank shoddy positioning and the raid leader acting erratic. But! We eventually somehow cheese it, and complete it after 5-7 wipes.

Now I want you to keep in mind, my headset isn't at home with me. And I haven't said a single word this whole time to anyone. And this is fine up until the last boss. Same with another person, and 1 of the people I slightly know. M'kay? So all the while in the group of 12, 2 people haven't spoken at all. And 1 person is barely speaking due to them dealing with health issues. Actually, the other person who hasn't spoken at all alongside me had a throat medical issue. Which is why they hadn't talked at all either. But anyway, it's all cool until this point.

So we get to the Serpent, and everyone is cocky and says to do it on "hard mode". People are cocky. And the raid leader agrees. Then the steady wipes start occurring right and left. Back after back. People getting sloppy, and people not following mechanics. After a while, people start saying they're going to bed and leaving. This is because it was really late in the morning, and I suppose people had to go. But then, "it" happened.

I notice those of us who barely talked slowly getting removed out of nowhere, and being told how they supposedly had to go to bed. I then get a message from the person who invited me that the raid group wants me to leave, because I haven't been using my mic. Even though I've been carrying my own weight, and the slack of a few people. I have died less than the supposed "pros" and leaderboard "masters", but that is irrelevant. A huge deal is made that I am quiet. Then as more members from a guild of "leaderboard pros and masters" start taking the spots of those who left, my silence is made an even bigger deal of. And this group wants me gone badly, according to the person who invited me. Me not talking is a huge issue.

After a while, the person who invited me claimed he got people to lay off my case but no. I didn't stay, and choose to leave. It was petty how they behaved, and I honestly felt used and miserable. I say there and used my pots, carried the slack of others, and went above and beyond what was asked of me. But because I didn't talk, and some "leaderboard pros" show up suddenly I have to go on the final boss? Really? I do all that hard work and repair kits and lots used mean nothing? Soul gems I used to resurrect some of these "pros", who didn't even come prepared with soul gems. And now they dare open their mouths and try and chump me like that? When we are on the last boss, and after I've done so much? My work means nothing, and was just a build-up to show-off to the so-called "pros" who are gonna take my spot? Even though most of them didn't: Come prepared, follow mechanics, and died tons of times more than I did? It felt horrible, and still does waking up this morning.

And that is exactly why I tend to solo, and only will do things with groups of people I know who don't believe they are above everyone else. I get asked all the time to join raid guilds and "pro guilds", and always decline. Because pettiness like this happens far too much, and I don't have the patience to tolerate it. And it's also why I hate the fact leaderboards exist and titles exist. Because it always breeds toxic behavior in people, and makes them feel superior to everyone.

Wollust · July 2016

I like leaderboards and titles

drakhan2002_ESO · July 2016

Welcome to the world of MMOs. People have done this started playing MMOs in 2001. And I'm sure they did long before that. Unfortunately, unless you know all the people in the group (well, like guildmates or regular groups), this is a risk you will need to face. PUGs kind stink for what you've outlined above - one thing can make them kick you. Sorry for your stress.

Rohamad_Ali · July 2016

We need a forum leader board . It's the only board I'd be interested in .

Hutch679 · July 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

So last night/this morning, I get invited by someone to tag along in a Veteran CP160 run of Sanctum Ophidia. Being as I love the trial, I agree to tag along as a damage dealer. Keep in mind I barely know 3 of the people in the group of 12, but still. It's not an issue. And I'm welcomed.

On the first boss, we wipe once and people quickly get their act together and straighten up. Okay cool. We get it done. Second boss comes along? We get it done, and on the first try. Third boss comes along, and we wipe constantly due to tank shoddy positioning and the raid leader acting erratic. But! We eventually somehow cheese it, and complete it after 5-7 wipes.

Now I want you to keep in mind, my headset isn't at home with me. And I haven't said a single word this whole time to anyone. And this is fine up until the last boss. Same with another person, and 1 of the people I slightly know. M'kay? So all the while in the group of 12, 2 people haven't spoken at all. And 1 person is barely speaking due to them dealing with health issues. Actually, the other person who hasn't spoken at all alongside me had a throat medical issue. Which is why they hadn't talked at all either. But anyway, it's all cool until this point.

So we get to the Serpent, and everyone is cocky and says to do it on "hard mode". People are cocky. And the raid leader agrees. Then the steady wipes start occurring right and left. Back after back. People getting sloppy, and people not following mechanics. After a while, people start saying they're going to bed and leaving. This is because it was really late in the morning, and I suppose people had to go. But then, "it" happened.

I notice those of us who barely talked slowly getting removed out of nowhere, and being told how they supposedly had to go to bed. I then get a message from the person who invited me that the raid group wants me to leave, because I haven't been using my mic. Even though I've been carrying my own weight, and the slack of a few people. I have died less than the supposed "pros" and leaderboard "masters", but that is irrelevant. A huge deal is made that I am quiet. Then as more members from a guild of "leaderboard pros and masters" start taking the spots of those who left, my silence is made an even bigger deal of. And this group wants me gone badly, according to the person who invited me. Me not talking is a huge issue.

After a while, the person who invited me claimed he got people to lay off my case but no. I didn't stay, and choose to leave. It was petty how they behaved, and I honestly felt used and miserable. I say there and used my pots, carried the slack of others, and went above and beyond what was asked of me. But because I didn't talk, and some "leaderboard pros" show up suddenly I have to go on the final boss? Really? I do all that hard work and repair kits and lots used mean nothing? Soul gems I used to resurrect some of these "pros", who didn't even come prepared with soul gems. And now they dare open their mouths and try and chump me like that? When we are on the last boss, and after I've done so much? My work means nothing, and was just a build-up to show-off to the so-called "pros" who are gonna take my spot? Even though most of them didn't: Come prepared, follow mechanics, and died tons of times more than I did? It felt horrible, and still does waking up this morning.

And that is exactly why I tend to solo, and only will do things with groups of people I know who don't believe they are above everyone else. I get asked all the time to join raid guilds and "pro guilds", and always decline. Because pettiness like this happens far too much, and I don't have the patience to tolerate it. And it's also why I hate the fact leaderboards exist and titles exist. Because it always breeds toxic behavior in people, and makes them feel superior to everyone.

I don't really think that wanting to kick someone without a mic as petty. I do think it's petty to make a forum post about it though lol.

-1

Ch4mpTW · July 2016

drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »

Welcome to the world of MMOs. People have done this started playing MMOs in 2001. And I'm sure they did long before that. Unfortunately, unless you know all the people in the group (well, like guildmates or regular groups), this is a risk you will need to face. PUGs kind stink for what you've outlined above - one thing can make them kick you. Sorry for your stress.

And that's a damn shame. So because someone is a so called "super pro" and member of a guild of "leaderboard masters", they should get treated like royalty and have high priority above everyone else? Just because of a title they may have, or because they have a leaderboard spot? Or because they are apart of a famed guild?

Fun fact, tons of people on PS4 paid others to have their names on the leaderboards. They completely had others do the runs on their accounts, so that is completely null and void about a skill level. I know this for a fact, as I know 1 of the people who got banned doing runs for others. As well as some people who still get it done to this day.

Regardless, some of these so-called "pros" performance was terrible. Absolutely trash. But, because they have a "Flawless Conqueror" in their names. Or "Ophidian Overlord", I'm supposed to humble myself before them and let them treat me any kind of way? And take their actions and words as the ultimate truth? No. I'm not buying it. And I won't. That's ridiculous. If you're going to judge someone? It should be based on their current performance and knowledge. Not their title and membership to a guild.

KochDerDamonen · July 2016

Not seeing the connection, think OP is blaming the mysterious 'competitive' force for a bad experience had with some real jokers. Suddenly at the end, recognition for achievment does these bad bad things? Honestly seems like folks with overly proud personalitys are giving you a bad impression of competitiveness, as there are the usual amount of humble people that also enjoy competing. Trust me, if these rude types didn't have a score or achievments, they would make them up themselves.

W0lf_z13 · July 2016

this is the main reason that i stick to pvp mainly now.... i know my damage isnt up to par with the "pros" so i dont even bother with that ... if anything i run pve stuff with friends that i play with constantly who dont care about the boards

Ch4mpTW · July 2016

W0lf_z13 wrote: »

this is the main reason that i stick to pvp mainly now.... i know my damage isnt up to par with the "pros" so i dont even bother with that ... if anything i run pve stuff with friends that i play with constantly who dont care about the boards

And that's sad, because to keep it real with you? A lot of "pros", have mediocre damage and overall ability. Like I said, their performance was deplorable. I'd show you all a video, but I don't want to get banned for shaming. It's atrocious.

But they can gloat of they know such-and-such in this guild filled with people who make leaderboards. They can claim they are superior, because they got such-and-such time on a DPS test. And how such-and-such who is a streamer shouts them out, and is a friend of theirs. It's pathetic really. If that same amount of energy was spent at actually honing their skill(s), as they spent boasting of how they know this and that person? They'd not have the time to be so arrogant, and full of themselves.

RogueShade · July 2016

If they dropped you at the last boss it sounds more like they were after loot than leaderboards. Especially if there were wipes, they would have needed to start over for a decent score after that.

Wifeaggro13 · July 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

So last night/this morning, I get invited by someone to tag along in a Veteran CP160 run of Sanctum Ophidia. Being as I love the trial, I agree to tag along as a damage dealer. Keep in mind I barely know 3 of the people in the group of 12, but still. It's not an issue. And I'm welcomed.

On the first boss, we wipe once and people quickly get their act together and straighten up. Okay cool. We get it done. Second boss comes along? We get it done, and on the first try. Third boss comes along, and we wipe constantly due to tank shoddy positioning and the raid leader acting erratic. But! We eventually somehow cheese it, and complete it after 5-7 wipes.

Now I want you to keep in mind, my headset isn't at home with me. And I haven't said a single word this whole time to anyone. And this is fine up until the last boss. Same with another person, and 1 of the people I slightly know. M'kay? So all the while in the group of 12, 2 people haven't spoken at all. And 1 person is barely speaking due to them dealing with health issues. Actually, the other person who hasn't spoken at all alongside me had a throat medical issue. Which is why they hadn't talked at all either. But anyway, it's all cool until this point.

So we get to the Serpent, and everyone is cocky and says to do it on "hard mode". People are cocky. And the raid leader agrees. Then the steady wipes start occurring right and left. Back after back. People getting sloppy, and people not following mechanics. After a while, people start saying they're going to bed and leaving. This is because it was really late in the morning, and I suppose people had to go. But then, "it" happened.

I notice those of us who barely talked slowly getting removed out of nowhere, and being told how they supposedly had to go to bed. I then get a message from the person who invited me that the raid group wants me to leave, because I haven't been using my mic. Even though I've been carrying my own weight, and the slack of a few people. I have died less than the supposed "pros" and leaderboard "masters", but that is irrelevant. A huge deal is made that I am quiet. Then as more members from a guild of "leaderboard pros and masters" start taking the spots of those who left, my silence is made an even bigger deal of. And this group wants me gone badly, according to the person who invited me. Me not talking is a huge issue.

After a while, the person who invited me claimed he got people to lay off my case but no. I didn't stay, and choose to leave. It was petty how they behaved, and I honestly felt used and miserable. I say there and used my pots, carried the slack of others, and went above and beyond what was asked of me. But because I didn't talk, and some "leaderboard pros" show up suddenly I have to go on the final boss? Really? I do all that hard work and repair kits and lots used mean nothing? Soul gems I used to resurrect some of these "pros", who didn't even come prepared with soul gems. And now they dare open their mouths and try and chump me like that? When we are on the last boss, and after I've done so much? My work means nothing, and was just a build-up to show-off to the so-called "pros" who are gonna take my spot? Even though most of them didn't: Come prepared, follow mechanics, and died tons of times more than I did? It felt horrible, and still does waking up this morning.

And that is exactly why I tend to solo, and only will do things with groups of people I know who don't believe they are above everyone else. I get asked all the time to join raid guilds and "pro guilds", and always decline. Because pettiness like this happens far too much, and I don't have the patience to tolerate it. And it's also why I hate the fact leaderboards exist and titles exist. Because it always breeds toxic behavior in people, and makes them feel superior to everyone.

I do not agree with the way ZOS designed this system. Its worse in trials the whole thing is tied to how fast you run through the Trial. it has nothing to do with how clean the run went. This whole game is designed around DPS it was a poor choice . in all honesty the game design is worse then games that were released 10 to 15 years ago in this respect. You nailed the core problem the game does not require you build friendships and develop team work to accomplish a common interest goal. all 12 players try to get the highest DPS, and post how much better they are then the other. No on has to play a class , just DPS the highest and run to the next boss.

Haquor · July 2016

Hutch679 wrote: »

I don't really think that wanting to kick someone without a mic as petty. I do think it's petty to make a forum post about it though lol.

-1

So kicking someone who has performed well because they dont clog chat during combat when they clearly dont need to in an attempt to shift blame for the core raids poor performance and protect thier egos is not petty?

Noted.

Mortehl · July 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

So last night/this morning, I get invited by someone to tag along in a Veteran CP160 run of Sanctum Ophidia. Being as I love the trial, I agree to tag along as a damage dealer. Keep in mind I barely know 3 of the people in the group of 12, but still. It's not an issue. And I'm welcomed.

On the first boss, we wipe once and people quickly get their act together and straighten up. Okay cool. We get it done. Second boss comes along? We get it done, and on the first try. Third boss comes along, and we wipe constantly due to tank shoddy positioning and the raid leader acting erratic. But! We eventually somehow cheese it, and complete it after 5-7 wipes.

Now I want you to keep in mind, my headset isn't at home with me. And I haven't said a single word this whole time to anyone. And this is fine up until the last boss. Same with another person, and 1 of the people I slightly know. M'kay? So all the while in the group of 12, 2 people haven't spoken at all. And 1 person is barely speaking due to them dealing with health issues. Actually, the other person who hasn't spoken at all alongside me had a throat medical issue. Which is why they hadn't talked at all either. But anyway, it's all cool until this point.

So we get to the Serpent, and everyone is cocky and says to do it on "hard mode". People are cocky. And the raid leader agrees. Then the steady wipes start occurring right and left. Back after back. People getting sloppy, and people not following mechanics. After a while, people start saying they're going to bed and leaving. This is because it was really late in the morning, and I suppose people had to go. But then, "it" happened.

I notice those of us who barely talked slowly getting removed out of nowhere, and being told how they supposedly had to go to bed. I then get a message from the person who invited me that the raid group wants me to leave, because I haven't been using my mic. Even though I've been carrying my own weight, and the slack of a few people. I have died less than the supposed "pros" and leaderboard "masters", but that is irrelevant. A huge deal is made that I am quiet. Then as more members from a guild of "leaderboard pros and masters" start taking the spots of those who left, my silence is made an even bigger deal of. And this group wants me gone badly, according to the person who invited me. Me not talking is a huge issue.

After a while, the person who invited me claimed he got people to lay off my case but no. I didn't stay, and choose to leave. It was petty how they behaved, and I honestly felt used and miserable. I say there and used my pots, carried the slack of others, and went above and beyond what was asked of me. But because I didn't talk, and some "leaderboard pros" show up suddenly I have to go on the final boss? Really? I do all that hard work and repair kits and lots used mean nothing? Soul gems I used to resurrect some of these "pros", who didn't even come prepared with soul gems. And now they dare open their mouths and try and chump me like that? When we are on the last boss, and after I've done so much? My work means nothing, and was just a build-up to show-off to the so-called "pros" who are gonna take my spot? Even though most of them didn't: Come prepared, follow mechanics, and died tons of times more than I did? It felt horrible, and still does waking up this morning.

And that is exactly why I tend to solo, and only will do things with groups of people I know who don't believe they are above everyone else. I get asked all the time to join raid guilds and "pro guilds", and always decline. Because pettiness like this happens far too much, and I don't have the patience to tolerate it. And it's also why I hate the fact leaderboards exist and titles exist. Because it always breeds toxic behavior in people, and makes them feel superior to everyone.

xblackroxe · July 2016

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

So last night/this morning, I get invited by someone to tag along in a Veteran CP160 run of Sanctum Ophidia. Being as I love the trial, I agree to tag along as a damage dealer. Keep in mind I barely know 3 of the people in the group of 12, but still. It's not an issue. And I'm welcomed.

On the first boss, we wipe once and people quickly get their act together and straighten up. Okay cool. We get it done. Second boss comes along? We get it done, and on the first try. Third boss comes along, and we wipe constantly due to tank shoddy positioning and the raid leader acting erratic. But! We eventually somehow cheese it, and complete it after 5-7 wipes.

Now I want you to keep in mind, my headset isn't at home with me. And I haven't said a single word this whole time to anyone. And this is fine up until the last boss. Same with another person, and 1 of the people I slightly know. M'kay? So all the while in the group of 12, 2 people haven't spoken at all. And 1 person is barely speaking due to them dealing with health issues. Actually, the other person who hasn't spoken at all alongside me had a throat medical issue. Which is why they hadn't talked at all either. But anyway, it's all cool until this point.

So we get to the Serpent, and everyone is cocky and says to do it on "hard mode". People are cocky. And the raid leader agrees. Then the steady wipes start occurring right and left. Back after back. People getting sloppy, and people not following mechanics. After a while, people start saying they're going to bed and leaving. This is because it was really late in the morning, and I suppose people had to go. But then, "it" happened.

I notice those of us who barely talked slowly getting removed out of nowhere, and being told how they supposedly had to go to bed. I then get a message from the person who invited me that the raid group wants me to leave, because I haven't been using my mic. Even though I've been carrying my own weight, and the slack of a few people. I have died less than the supposed "pros" and leaderboard "masters", but that is irrelevant. A huge deal is made that I am quiet. Then as more members from a guild of "leaderboard pros and masters" start taking the spots of those who left, my silence is made an even bigger deal of. And this group wants me gone badly, according to the person who invited me. Me not talking is a huge issue.

After a while, the person who invited me claimed he got people to lay off my case but no. I didn't stay, and choose to leave. It was petty how they behaved, and I honestly felt used and miserable. I say there and used my pots, carried the slack of others, and went above and beyond what was asked of me. But because I didn't talk, and some "leaderboard pros" show up suddenly I have to go on the final boss? Really? I do all that hard work and repair kits and lots used mean nothing? Soul gems I used to resurrect some of these "pros", who didn't even come prepared with soul gems. And now they dare open their mouths and try and chump me like that? When we are on the last boss, and after I've done so much? My work means nothing, and was just a build-up to show-off to the so-called "pros" who are gonna take my spot? Even though most of them didn't: Come prepared, follow mechanics, and died tons of times more than I did? It felt horrible, and still does waking up this morning.

And that is exactly why I tend to solo, and only will do things with groups of people I know who don't believe they are above everyone else. I get asked all the time to join raid guilds and "pro guilds", and always decline. Because pettiness like this happens far too much, and I don't have the patience to tolerate it. And it's also why I hate the fact leaderboards exist and titles exist. Because it always breeds toxic behavior in people, and makes them feel superior to everyone.

I do not agree with the way ZOS designed this system. Its worse in trials the whole thing is tied to how fast you run through the Trial. it has nothing to do with how clean the run went. This whole game is designed around DPS it was a poor choice . in all honesty the game design is worse then games that were released 10 to 15 years ago in this respect. You nailed the core problem the game does not require you build friendships and develop team work to accomplish a common interest goal. all 12 players try to get the highest DPS, and post how much better they are then the other. No on has to play a class , just DPS the highest and run to the next boss.

Sounds like QQ from someone thats not on par with his dps.

Mortehl · July 2016

Are you PS4? Give me a message at Mortehl. I have no patience for that ilk of humanity.

Milvan · July 2016

Your experience is actually a very good simulacro of RL.

As a comrade states above, welcome to the world of mmo's. Whenever I face blatant and shallow people that can't work together - since Ultima online - I have a notepad where I write names and comments about the player (you can do it with notepad on your desktop etc, note that I don't blacklist people that are learning how to play or have cheap ass gear, only people that are actually bricks and can't work together at all). If the party is full with people that I know is toxic I apoligize and leave.

Hey, but cheer up, it don't happen that often. It does happen, but its not that often.

Ch4mpTW · July 2016

Milvan wrote: »

Your experience is actually a very good simulacro of RL.

As a comrade states above, welcome to the world of mmo's. Whenever I face blatant and shallow people that can't work together - since Ultima online - I have a notepad where I write names and comments about the player (you can do it with notepad on your desktop etc, note that I don't blacklist people that are learning how to play or have cheap ass gear, only people that are actually bricks and can't work together at all). If the party is full with people that I know is toxic I apoligize and leave.

Hey, but cheer up, it don't happen that often. It does happen, but its not that often.

I'm cheering up a bit after reading with you all's posts, and talking with some buds and chums about it. But, it just felt so... So bad and cringeworthy. All the while being so infuriating at the same time.

I should've known something was up, when after the other 2 who weren't talking left and the group kind of stood around my character — but wasn't talking in the group chat anymore. Kind of like circling me, and making bash gestures and using skills at where I was standing. Then as names that are on the leaderboards started joining I recognized, and after talking briefly of how easy it'll be — going immediately silent. All the while joining the others circling my character.

Granzadabur · July 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

So last night/this morning, I get invited by someone to tag along in a Veteran CP160 run of Sanctum Ophidia. Being as I love the trial, I agree to tag along as a damage dealer. Keep in mind I barely know 3 of the people in the group of 12, but still. It's not an issue. And I'm welcomed.

On the first boss, we wipe once and people quickly get their act together and straighten up. Okay cool. We get it done. Second boss comes along? We get it done, and on the first try. Third boss comes along, and we wipe constantly due to tank shoddy positioning and the raid leader acting erratic. But! We eventually somehow cheese it, and complete it after 5-7 wipes.

Now I want you to keep in mind, my headset isn't at home with me. And I haven't said a single word this whole time to anyone. And this is fine up until the last boss. Same with another person, and 1 of the people I slightly know. M'kay? So all the while in the group of 12, 2 people haven't spoken at all. And 1 person is barely speaking due to them dealing with health issues. Actually, the other person who hasn't spoken at all alongside me had a throat medical issue. Which is why they hadn't talked at all either. But anyway, it's all cool until this point.

So we get to the Serpent, and everyone is cocky and says to do it on "hard mode". People are cocky. And the raid leader agrees. Then the steady wipes start occurring right and left. Back after back. People getting sloppy, and people not following mechanics. After a while, people start saying they're going to bed and leaving. This is because it was really late in the morning, and I suppose people had to go. But then, "it" happened.

I notice those of us who barely talked slowly getting removed out of nowhere, and being told how they supposedly had to go to bed. I then get a message from the person who invited me that the raid group wants me to leave, because I haven't been using my mic. Even though I've been carrying my own weight, and the slack of a few people. I have died less than the supposed "pros" and leaderboard "masters", but that is irrelevant. A huge deal is made that I am quiet. Then as more members from a guild of "leaderboard pros and masters" start taking the spots of those who left, my silence is made an even bigger deal of. And this group wants me gone badly, according to the person who invited me. Me not talking is a huge issue.

After a while, the person who invited me claimed he got people to lay off my case but no. I didn't stay, and choose to leave. It was petty how they behaved, and I honestly felt used and miserable. I say there and used my pots, carried the slack of others, and went above and beyond what was asked of me. But because I didn't talk, and some "leaderboard pros" show up suddenly I have to go on the final boss? Really? I do all that hard work and repair kits and lots used mean nothing? Soul gems I used to resurrect some of these "pros", who didn't even come prepared with soul gems. And now they dare open their mouths and try and chump me like that? When we are on the last boss, and after I've done so much? My work means nothing, and was just a build-up to show-off to the so-called "pros" who are gonna take my spot? Even though most of them didn't: Come prepared, follow mechanics, and died tons of times more than I did? It felt horrible, and still does waking up this morning.

And that is exactly why I tend to solo, and only will do things with groups of people I know who don't believe they are above everyone else. I get asked all the time to join raid guilds and "pro guilds", and always decline. Because pettiness like this happens far too much, and I don't have the patience to tolerate it. And it's also why I hate the fact leaderboards exist and titles exist. Because it always breeds toxic behavior in people, and makes them feel superior to everyone.

Shame that this happened to you, I hate those people who take pride in being so called "pros" when they suck at the game. I find people in this game very hostile to no-mics. I never liked revealing anything in a game, was it my voice,face or whatever, I just like being silent and incognito to these random strangers who have no significance in my life. I say you shouldn't be bothered by several *** competitive personas e.g pretenders. They are just simply... ***.

Praeficere · July 2016

People have been paying to be carried in Trials for ages, not just a PS4 thing.

You said you carried your own weight, we don't know that to be honest, but after such a long time of dying in vSO, they probably wanted to remove the randoms and invite the people they've done it with before to finish it up.

I'd never join a Trial group unless I know the people there, else it's so easy for the others to band together as they know each other.

Edit: And yeah, I've never seen this happen on EU PC, end-game raids are surprisingly positive and friendly. Even if someone is performing not so well, they're given a chance as long as they're working hard and not just being silly. (Yes, even people with no mics.)

timidobserver · July 2016

I recently started console gaming and I have found that console gamers are sticklers about mics compared to PC players.

idk · July 2016

The issue was not it being a leaderboard run but the group of players you were running with. I would not even say they were elitists. The group was challenged and looked for any place to cast blame.

DenMoria · July 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

So last night/this morning, I get invited by someone to tag along in a Veteran CP160 run of Sanctum Ophidia. Being as I love the trial, I agree to tag along as a damage dealer. Keep in mind I barely know 3 of the people in the group of 12, but still. It's not an issue. And I'm welcomed.

On the first boss, we wipe once and people quickly get their act together and straighten up. Okay cool. We get it done. Second boss comes along? We get it done, and on the first try. Third boss comes along, and we wipe constantly due to tank shoddy positioning and the raid leader acting erratic. But! We eventually somehow cheese it, and complete it after 5-7 wipes.

Now I want you to keep in mind, my headset isn't at home with me. And I haven't said a single word this whole time to anyone. And this is fine up until the last boss. Same with another person, and 1 of the people I slightly know. M'kay? So all the while in the group of 12, 2 people haven't spoken at all. And 1 person is barely speaking due to them dealing with health issues. Actually, the other person who hasn't spoken at all alongside me had a throat medical issue. Which is why they hadn't talked at all either. But anyway, it's all cool until this point.

So we get to the Serpent, and everyone is cocky and says to do it on "hard mode". People are cocky. And the raid leader agrees. Then the steady wipes start occurring right and left. Back after back. People getting sloppy, and people not following mechanics. After a while, people start saying they're going to bed and leaving. This is because it was really late in the morning, and I suppose people had to go. But then, "it" happened.

I notice those of us who barely talked slowly getting removed out of nowhere, and being told how they supposedly had to go to bed. I then get a message from the person who invited me that the raid group wants me to leave, because I haven't been using my mic. Even though I've been carrying my own weight, and the slack of a few people. I have died less than the supposed "pros" and leaderboard "masters", but that is irrelevant. A huge deal is made that I am quiet. Then as more members from a guild of "leaderboard pros and masters" start taking the spots of those who left, my silence is made an even bigger deal of. And this group wants me gone badly, according to the person who invited me. Me not talking is a huge issue.

After a while, the person who invited me claimed he got people to lay off my case but no. I didn't stay, and choose to leave. It was petty how they behaved, and I honestly felt used and miserable. I say there and used my pots, carried the slack of others, and went above and beyond what was asked of me. But because I didn't talk, and some "leaderboard pros" show up suddenly I have to go on the final boss? Really? I do all that hard work and repair kits and lots used mean nothing? Soul gems I used to resurrect some of these "pros", who didn't even come prepared with soul gems. And now they dare open their mouths and try and chump me like that? When we are on the last boss, and after I've done so much? My work means nothing, and was just a build-up to show-off to the so-called "pros" who are gonna take my spot? Even though most of them didn't: Come prepared, follow mechanics, and died tons of times more than I did? It felt horrible, and still does waking up this morning.

And that is exactly why I tend to solo, and only will do things with groups of people I know who don't believe they are above everyone else. I get asked all the time to join raid guilds and "pro guilds", and always decline. Because pettiness like this happens far too much, and I don't have the patience to tolerate it. And it's also why I hate the fact leaderboards exist and titles exist. Because it always breeds toxic behavior in people, and makes them feel superior to everyone.

Agree. I almost never group on upper level for this reason. I would rather not complete the game because, inevitably, because I am not top of the leaderboard, and, although a solid player, near the end of most of these "dungeons", everybody gets dropped and replaced by "Pros". I'm assuming it's because these so-called "pros" are too lazy to actually run the dungeon and only want the rewards.

I'm not a talker, although I am going to try on this coming runthrough after a few months off, but, I am not hopeful that it's going to be a fun ride. Maybe I should just be my usual acidic self and let them deal with it.

DenMoria · July 2016

Hutch679 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

So last night/this morning, I get invited by someone to tag along in a Veteran CP160 run of Sanctum Ophidia. Being as I love the trial, I agree to tag along as a damage dealer. Keep in mind I barely know 3 of the people in the group of 12, but still. It's not an issue. And I'm welcomed.

On the first boss, we wipe once and people quickly get their act together and straighten up. Okay cool. We get it done. Second boss comes along? We get it done, and on the first try. Third boss comes along, and we wipe constantly due to tank shoddy positioning and the raid leader acting erratic. But! We eventually somehow cheese it, and complete it after 5-7 wipes.

Now I want you to keep in mind, my headset isn't at home with me. And I haven't said a single word this whole time to anyone. And this is fine up until the last boss. Same with another person, and 1 of the people I slightly know. M'kay? So all the while in the group of 12, 2 people haven't spoken at all. And 1 person is barely speaking due to them dealing with health issues. Actually, the other person who hasn't spoken at all alongside me had a throat medical issue. Which is why they hadn't talked at all either. But anyway, it's all cool until this point.

So we get to the Serpent, and everyone is cocky and says to do it on "hard mode". People are cocky. And the raid leader agrees. Then the steady wipes start occurring right and left. Back after back. People getting sloppy, and people not following mechanics. After a while, people start saying they're going to bed and leaving. This is because it was really late in the morning, and I suppose people had to go. But then, "it" happened.

I notice those of us who barely talked slowly getting removed out of nowhere, and being told how they supposedly had to go to bed. I then get a message from the person who invited me that the raid group wants me to leave, because I haven't been using my mic. Even though I've been carrying my own weight, and the slack of a few people. I have died less than the supposed "pros" and leaderboard "masters", but that is irrelevant. A huge deal is made that I am quiet. Then as more members from a guild of "leaderboard pros and masters" start taking the spots of those who left, my silence is made an even bigger deal of. And this group wants me gone badly, according to the person who invited me. Me not talking is a huge issue.

After a while, the person who invited me claimed he got people to lay off my case but no. I didn't stay, and choose to leave. It was petty how they behaved, and I honestly felt used and miserable. I say there and used my pots, carried the slack of others, and went above and beyond what was asked of me. But because I didn't talk, and some "leaderboard pros" show up suddenly I have to go on the final boss? Really? I do all that hard work and repair kits and lots used mean nothing? Soul gems I used to resurrect some of these "pros", who didn't even come prepared with soul gems. And now they dare open their mouths and try and chump me like that? When we are on the last boss, and after I've done so much? My work means nothing, and was just a build-up to show-off to the so-called "pros" who are gonna take my spot? Even though most of them didn't: Come prepared, follow mechanics, and died tons of times more than I did? It felt horrible, and still does waking up this morning.

And that is exactly why I tend to solo, and only will do things with groups of people I know who don't believe they are above everyone else. I get asked all the time to join raid guilds and "pro guilds", and always decline. Because pettiness like this happens far too much, and I don't have the patience to tolerate it. And it's also why I hate the fact leaderboards exist and titles exist. Because it always breeds toxic behavior in people, and makes them feel superior to everyone.

I don't really think that wanting to kick someone without a mic as petty. I do think it's petty to make a forum post about it though lol.

-1

D'j'ever think that we don't WANT to talk to you? Frankly, 90% of the time I'd rather not be listening to you either. This is why I just use my 2nd account to do solo and run around PvP ganking people. I never need to talk to them and I get stuff.

DenMoria · July 2016

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Not seeing the connection, think OP is blaming the mysterious 'competitive' force for a bad experience had with some real jokers. Suddenly at the end, recognition for achievment does these bad bad things? Honestly seems like folks with overly proud personalitys are giving you a bad impression of competitiveness, as there are the usual amount of humble people that also enjoy competing. Trust me, if these rude types didn't have a score or achievments, they would make them up themselves.

What if you're not competitive? I'm not. I could care less. I just play to have fun, not for bragging rights. I'm not 10.

Praeficere · July 2016

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

I do not agree with the way ZOS designed this system. Its worse in trials the whole thing is tied to how fast you run through the Trial. it has nothing to do with how clean the run went. This whole game is designed around DPS it was a poor choice . in all honesty the game design is worse then games that were released 10 to 15 years ago in this respect. You nailed the core problem the game does not require you build friendships and develop team work to accomplish a common interest goal. all 12 players try to get the highest DPS, and post how much better they are then the other. No on has to play a class , just DPS the highest and run to the next boss.

While I agree to some extent, DPS is a measure of self-skill, skill of your teammates, and team co-ordination. It's not sitting infront of a boss spamming skills, it's teamwork and having knowledge of the trial to be able to upkeep your damage.

Ch4mpTW · July 2016

Praeficere wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

I do not agree with the way ZOS designed this system. Its worse in trials the whole thing is tied to how fast you run through the Trial. it has nothing to do with how clean the run went. This whole game is designed around DPS it was a poor choice . in all honesty the game design is worse then games that were released 10 to 15 years ago in this respect. You nailed the core problem the game does not require you build friendships and develop team work to accomplish a common interest goal. all 12 players try to get the highest DPS, and post how much better they are then the other. No on has to play a class , just DPS the highest and run to the next boss.

While I agree to some extent, DPS is a measure of self-skill, skill of your teammates, and team co-ordination. It's not sitting infront of a boss spamming skills, it's teamwork and having knowledge of the trial to be able to upkeep your damage.

You know, it's funny you say that. During the trial I was in when this all occurred, the leader said that the healer should focus strictly on heals, and supply no damage. And for the damage dealers should focus on strictly damage. Stack on healers, and put all your trust in them. Lol.

OrphanHelgen · July 2016

I want to remind everyone that a case have always more then one sides.
I read your story. I am not saying I dont believe you but just want to say an example.

Our guild used to raid with a player who claimed he never did anything wrong, and if he was dead 5 times in a row and someone else died, it was like he forgot he died and claimed how good he was when he ressed others.
Also, communication is more importent the people think. If you get pulled from a totem, you can say where you are. Also, telling the group who you are ressing, helps alot, so others dont spend time looking around for the dead player they see in group.

When that is said, lets say your story are correct, I think if their behavior is to kick "outsiders" eventhough themselves are bad, they wont progress on anything in this game, and tbh, hardmode on vet sanctum is maybe easier then hardmode gonna be in vet AA and HelRa. You dodge world shaper, pick up some orbs, kill a mini manti and all in boss.

There might be mostly *** out there, but there is actually friendly guilds out there who are able to do such content in a grown up way and threat people with respect.

I want to add another thing why hardmode sanctum is the easiest one. There is no dps race, and you can at anytime recover. There will be alot of totems up at the end but we can handle that at some point.

AA have more axes and keep spawning attros.
Helra will keep spawning adds and gargoyles.
If half group dead and you spend minuites ressing, there will be a caos.

DenMoria · July 2016

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I want to remind everyone that a case have always more then one sides.
I read your story. I am not saying I dont believe you but just want to say an example.

Our guild used to raid with a player who claimed he never did anything wrong, and if he was dead 5 times in a row and someone else died, it was like he forgot he died and claimed how good he was when he ressed others.
Also, communication is more importent the people think. If you get pulled from a totem, you can say where you are. Also, telling the group who you are ressing, helps alot, so others dont spend time looking around for the dead player they see in group.

When that is said, lets say your story are correct, I think if their behavior is to kick "outsiders" eventhough themselves are bad, they wont progress on anything in this game, and tbh, hardmode on vet sanctum is maybe easier then hardmode gonna be in vet AA and HelRa. You dodge world shaper, pick up some orbs, kill a mini manti and all in boss.

There might be mostly *** out there, but there is actually friendly guilds out there who are able to do such content in a grown up way and threat people with respect.

I want to add another thing why hardmode sanctum is the easiest one. There is no dps race, and you can at anytime recover. There will be alot of totems up at the end but we can handle that at some point.

AA have more axes and keep spawning attros.
Helra will keep spawning adds and gargoyles.
If half group dead and you spend minuites ressing, there will be a caos.

As a non-speaker, is it possible to follow directions and requests on a runthrough? It's not that I can't speak, it's just that, when I do, I inevitably *** people off because I am not nice and extremely acidic. I do take direction very well though.

OrphanHelgen · July 2016

DenMoria wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I want to remind everyone that a case have always more then one sides.
I read your story. I am not saying I dont believe you but just want to say an example.

Our guild used to raid with a player who claimed he never did anything wrong, and if he was dead 5 times in a row and someone else died, it was like he forgot he died and claimed how good he was when he ressed others.
Also, communication is more importent the people think. If you get pulled from a totem, you can say where you are. Also, telling the group who you are ressing, helps alot, so others dont spend time looking around for the dead player they see in group.

When that is said, lets say your story are correct, I think if their behavior is to kick "outsiders" eventhough themselves are bad, they wont progress on anything in this game, and tbh, hardmode on vet sanctum is maybe easier then hardmode gonna be in vet AA and HelRa. You dodge world shaper, pick up some orbs, kill a mini manti and all in boss.

There might be mostly *** out there, but there is actually friendly guilds out there who are able to do such content in a grown up way and threat people with respect.

I want to add another thing why hardmode sanctum is the easiest one. There is no dps race, and you can at anytime recover. There will be alot of totems up at the end but we can handle that at some point.

AA have more axes and keep spawning attros.
Helra will keep spawning adds and gargoyles.
If half group dead and you spend minuites ressing, there will be a caos.

As a non-speaker, is it possible to follow directions and requests on a runthrough? It's not that I can't speak, it's just that, when I do, I inevitably *** people off because I am not nice and extremely acidic. I do take direction very well though.

There on your answer you already answered me.
Of all those fair points im trying to state, you are still stuck on the "Im right" part.
Not gonna continue discussing with those kind of people.

Ch4mpTW · July 2016

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I want to remind everyone that a case have always more then one sides.
I read your story. I am not saying I dont believe you but just want to say an example.

Our guild used to raid with a player who claimed he never did anything wrong, and if he was dead 5 times in a row and someone else died, it was like he forgot he died and claimed how good he was when he ressed others.
Also, communication is more importent the people think. If you get pulled from a totem, you can say where you are. Also, telling the group who you are ressing, helps alot, so others dont spend time looking around for the dead player they see in group.

When that is said, lets say your story are correct, I think if their behavior is to kick "outsiders" eventhough themselves are bad, they wont progress on anything in this game, and tbh, hardmode on vet sanctum is maybe easier then hardmode gonna be in vet AA and HelRa. You dodge world shaper, pick up some orbs, kill a mini manti and all in boss.

There might be mostly *** out there, but there is actually friendly guilds out there who are able to do such content in a grown up way and threat people with respect.

Please don't misunderstand, but I am far from a "pro". I view myself as a competent and solid player, but never an "elite" or "pro". Let alone make any bold claims that I do no wrong. Lol. Regardless of how skillful I may appear, or how others may claim me as. And if I'm classified as such, I'll always correct them on their claims immediately. Why? Because I am ALWAYS seeking to improve. Always. It's a gaming habit and mindset of mine picked-up, from back when I started playing fighting games competitively and doing perfect runs and speed runs in platform games (e.g. Mega Man series). I always want to improve, and don't care how far along I think I may have come in a game. It's just my personality. I'm never too big-headed to ask for help, even if I'm already doing good.

Pomaikai · July 2016

Because people think that this !______________! is 8 inches.