Crafting Survey for New/Experienced Players - Feedback for ZeniMax

Korozenn · July 2016

Hey everybody! I'd like to get feedback on how other people (namely beginners) feel about crafting in this game in its current state. The purpose of this thread is to give information to ZeniMax on areas 'you' think may need improvement for future players to learn the finer points of crafting and hone their skills better like you did overtime (or will do). Hopefully, this thread can become a handy resource for ZeniMax and players alike to learn what can be improved upon and/or things they may have overlooked for crafting.

Here are a few questions to think of when answering:
1) Did you try out all professions on your main character at first before deciding which to specialize in?
2) Were you aware that specializing in all professions would be a lofty task, and did ZeniMax communicate that well enough?
3) Do you know what Inspiration is?
4) Do you know how Trait Research works?
5) Do you know what Crafting Writs are?
6) Have you experienced any problems with performing duties related to your craft(s)?

Bonus:
7) What is 'one' thing about crafting that you would like the developers to make better in the future?

Korozenn · July 2016

Since I've come back from a long hiatus, some of my answers below will go into some detail about how I feel about the game now compared to its original state.

Here are a few questions to think of when answering:
1) Did you try out all professions on your main character at first before deciding which to specialize in?

Yes. Before coming back into the game, I decided to make my main character one that would progressively do just about everything this game has to offer (like I would in a TES game).

It's still important to note that you can't really specialize in everything or else you'd just be a jack-of-all-trades and nothing more, so it's important to be careful about what to put points into when crafting and where you want your focus to be. The new leveling process has significantly helped with skill point allocation with crafting now. It is a LOT cheaper to respec now than it used to be at launch, too!

2) Were you aware that specializing in all professions would be a lofty task, and did ZeniMax communicate that well enough?

After coming back into the game, I was prepared. But when I started the game? Not at all.

A lot of people tend to spend their Skill Points on Active/Passive Abilities they don't readily need yet, from prior experience as a guild leader. Gladly, these people who do start the game and fall into common pitfalls can always respec for relatively cheap nowadays. But none of this is really communicated effectively, and you're left with players who may end up feeling a little confused or overwhelmed at first without any help from other players.

3) Do you know what Inspiration is?

Yes. However, if you asked me about all of the intricacies in how it works...you've honestly lost me. Inspiration is a weird component of ESO. Not anywhere near as bad as Veteran Ranks were, but it is definitely confusing as it blends itself with the Skill Line XP we get accustomed to from very early on in the game when it is not acquired in the same regard as other skill lines at all, really.

All I can say for sure is that Crafting Writs do help take care of the monotonous grind the game used to have where crafting was concerned. I still see the question asked daily in starter zones that people don't know if/what inspiration contributes to in regards to 'actual' character leveling and progression. The answer is that it does not contribute to actual character progression, and ZeniMax could do a much better job of explaining all of that in-game.

4) Do you know how Trait Research works?

Yes, but it could be better with a Jeweler profession. And I do think a profession like a Jeweler could make the whole process of research and adding traits to weapons/apparel all better consolidated in this game like Provisioning and Enchanting are now, too. I hope ZeniMax has not given up on it. I feel like Jewelry crafting could make all crafts far better to explore, too. I mean...trait gems are what you think they are: jewels. They'd technically 'have' to be a part of Jewelry crafting in the future, and I honestly have no doubt in my mind that ZeniMax may go more in-depth in this some time in the near future as we get closer to the launch of One Tamriel.

It would be nice to be able to replace a trait on certain weapons/armor that we craft for ourselves as well. Consolidating all of this would make a Jeweler profession and crafting, in general, much more streamlined while also freeing up a LOT of Skill Points players could use for other important skills, potentially.

5) Do you know what Crafting Writs are?

Yes. I do all six of mine daily on my main character, even when I'm not playing the game very actively. They give me a reason to continue being invested in ESO, even when I'm busy doing other things daily. I would like to continue seeing more of these types of quests added in to keep players coming back in future DLC expansions!

6) Have you experienced any problems with performing duties related to your craft(s)?

Alchemy. My problem with this profession is two-fold:

1) Reagents we mix together should have their resulting effects clearly visible to players if already performed before. i.e. If we mix a Blessed Thistle w/ Fleshfly Larva and got no result, that should be indicated the next time we try to do so in the UI itself. It would make the process of learning traits much more refined, like Enchanting is.

2) If you're a beginner, the Crafting Writs for Alchemy are the absolute worst out of the bunch.

If you get a writ that asks for you to craft a Sip of Magicka, but you instead create a Sip of Health that also 'doubles' as both a Restore Health and Magicka potion by combining the Restore Health / Restore Magicka traits on two different reagents, you will still get a Sip of Health: something that doesn't contribute to fulfilling the writ. Despite it essentially being the same exact thing in the end. Thus, you end up having to find two 'very' specific reagents that DON'T override the "...of Magicka" text in the potion's name to fulfill what the writ wants.

Huh?

Even me, an experienced player who has technically played this game since beta, cannot wrap my head around that design oversight. No other craft has Writs this cumbersome to finish daily in the beginning of the game, in all honesty. It could just be because I have bad luck with finding the proper ingredients, too. Who knows? I just know that I'm not the only one experiencing this issue, most likely. Maybe it would be fixed for the most part if an Alchemist vendor, you know, 'actually' sold the Botanical Reagents one needed and not potions, which a Merchant sells otherwise?

Bonus:
7) What is 'one' thing about crafting that you would like the developers to make better in the future?

As someone who researches traits for Blacksmithing, Clothing, and Woodworking, I can vouche that it's still super annoying to use external methods of research progress tracking (i.e. spreadsheets) to keep track of traits that have already been researched in the vanilla game or in sort of a "waiting" queue at my bank. (I use the Gamepad Mode UI on PC as I prefer its design and can play the game on the big screen, so I can't really make efficient use of addons as a result of this.)

Nestor · July 2016

1. I ended up crafting on one character, but skill point and inventory scarcity made me learn crafting on more than one alt at first.
2. I fully expected crafting to be a journey, even more so than it already is.
3. I do now, but at first is was not clear what that was. I knew crafting was leveling under some mechanism.
4. Yes, although it was not clear at first how to do this
5. Yes
6. Some, explained below

As for what could be improved with crafting, at this time, it is the Writs that need to be improved.

1. Writs should provide a net gain in materials, not a net loss. Consumables do this, Equipment does not.
2. Alchemy Writs should take the simplest potion in my inventory that fulfills the writ, not my Tri-Pots
3. Top Level Writs need to stop offering Inspiration. It serves no purpose as you have to maxed in the craft to do the top end writs. Instead, we either get more mats, more gold or more Experience towards Champ Points

Korozenn · July 2016

Nestor wrote: »

1. I ended up crafting on one character, but skill point and inventory scarcity made me learn crafting on more than one alt at first.
2. I fully expected crafting to be a journey, even more so than it already is.
3. I do now, but at first is was not clear what that was. I knew crafting was leveling under some mechanism.
4. Yes, although it was not clear at first how to do this
5. Yes
6. Some, explained below

As for what could be improved with crafting, at this time, it is the Writs that need to be improved.

1. Writs should provide a net gain in materials, not a net loss. Consumables do this, Equipment does not.
2. Alchemy Writs should take the simplest potion in my inventory that fulfills the writ, not my Tri-Pots
3. Top Level Writs need to stop offering Inspiration. It serves no purpose as you have to maxed in the craft to do the top end writs. Instead, we either get more mats, more gold or more Experience towards Champ Points

Very nice feedback, @Nestor!

I also think Crafting Writs are definitely in need of improvement, and if that's how future writs get for Alchemy, Enchanting, and Provisioning, then I'm not really looking forward to that, unfortunately. Therefore, I 100% agree that having top-level Crafting Writs offer more in terms of rewards, or even better yields of items (in general), would be much more beneficial than providing Inspiration for a crafting profession that has already been maxed out.

I think that the rewards we get for Crafting Writs should more than enough justify the time and kind of ingredients it takes to complete them, too, on the Consumables end of things, if it really gets that bad.

Alchemy Writs feel like a

in their current state, so I can only imagine how scary they get as we progress more in the craft.

Denidil · July 2016

Korozenn wrote: »

Hey everybody! I'd like to get feedback on how other people (namely beginners) feel about crafting in this game in its current state. The purpose of this thread is to give information to ZeniMax on areas 'you' think may need improvement for future players to learn the finer points of crafting and hone their skills better like you did overtime (or will do). Hopefully, this thread can become a handy resource for ZeniMax and players alike to learn what can be improved upon and/or things they may have overlooked for crafting.

Here are a few questions to think of when answering:
1) Did you try out all professions on your main character at first before deciding which to specialize in?
2) Were you aware that specializing in all professions would be a lofty task, and did ZeniMax communicate that well enough?
3) Do you know what Inspiration is?
4) Do you know how Trait Research works?
5) Do you know what Crafting Writs are?
6) Have you experienced any problems with performing duties related to your craft(s)?

Bonus:
7) What is 'one' thing about crafting that you would like the developers to make better in the future?

1) My main is maxxed out on all professions and is my only char that has run through all the content (thus to have the SP to do so)

2) yes, in fact I was skeptical there were enough CP to do it and not nerf you in combat (was wrong it seems)

3) another name for crafting XP

4) yes (PS: nirnhoned is a massive PITA)

5) Yes

6) Farming certain things is too much of a pain currently - recipes, potency runes (i want farm level 20 potency runes on my main for an alt, but i was getting nothing but max level potency runes even in the level 20 zone)

7) Make it impossible to partially loot a harvesting node. You either take everything, or you take nothing. no partial-looting.

phaneub17_ESO · July 2016

Research across multiple characters, don't try to take it all on with just one character.

Char A) Researches Blacksmithing Weapons, Clothing Light Armor, and Woodworking Elemental Staves.
Char

Researches Blacksmithing Armor, Clothing Medium Armor, and Woodworking Bows, Shield, and Resto Staff.
Char C) Does Alchemy, Enchanting, and Provisioning; at first so you can get all your recipes in one place.

Designate either Char A or B to be your main crafter, when that character has nothing left to research have the other one craft the traits in slots they don't already have. This makes it a lot easier than having to hold onto trait items, waiting for them to be researched, when you do it on two or more characters you end up saving a lot of space.

I eventually have all my alts fill out everything with 10/10 Material, 3/3 Keen Eye, and 3/3 Hirelings on crafting; only my main crafter fills out extraction, research, and upgrades. Provisioning everyone has 3/3 Gourmand, Enchanting 10/10 Potency and 3/3 Hireling, Alchemy 3/3 Keen Eye and 3/3 Medicinal Use.

I skip doing Writs until each character gets to the 10/10 on crafts, I don't even start the quests for them until at least level 49 on each character for the big experience boost. With it all being Void mats, I can manage having all my characters go to Craglorn to turn it in and not all over the place, I can farm the same mats with every character for every character.

Korozenn · July 2016

Denidil wrote: »

4) yes (PS: nirnhoned is a massive PITA)

Meep! I've heard some horror stories. How difficult is it to get the trait on a weapon/apparel? >w<

6) Farming certain things is too much of a pain currently - recipes, potency runes (i want farm level 20 potency runes on my main for an alt, but i was getting nothing but max level potency runes even in the level 20 zone)

You should be able to buy those Level 20 Potency Runes from an Enchanter vendor in towns, if you're having trouble finding them!

Sucks to hear about recipes, though. I'm not sure if vendors would sell them, in all honesty, but it's worth checking out a Chef or Brewer for Recipes as well. They tend to sell the ones that get featured on my Provisioning Writs from time-to-time. I hope that One Tamriel is going to make things easier on that front, but I don't know how it will work when it comes to scaling harvesting nodes. My guess is that eventually all zones will have harvesting nodes more like the ones featured in DLC zones that 50% of the time scale to your character's level and the other 50% being the level for your craft. That's how I think it should be, at least.

Oh! Guild Stores have been a huge help for me in finding some mats that I don't have as well. Stuff for Alchemy is hard to come by for me still in these beginning zones, so I've been going between different Guild Traders in Daggerfall to find cheap alchemical reagents on occasion, too. Unfortunately, it's sort of a luck of the draw with them still. You have the people who sell reagents for abhorrent prices at times and others who just completely lack reagents with traits that you need. Yikes.

7) Make it impossible to partially loot a harvesting node. You either take everything, or you take nothing. no partial-looting.

My biggest pet peeve when it comes to harvesting crafting nodes and finding treasure chests, honestly. Always brings a tear to my eye.

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Research across multiple characters, don't try to take it all on with just one character.

Couldn't agree more!

It's also very beneficial to have 1-3 different kinds of crafters like the ones you mentioned on your account that make use of the various Motif Books & Chapters later on in the game.

For beginners that don't know, it's way too expensive to try and have multiple characters learn 'all' of the crafting styles out there, and it's far too time-consuming as well. As @phaneub17_ESO said, if you space things out for multiple characters, it'll be easier to get a handle on crafting from earlier on in the game and you'll actually progress through the more time-consuming processes of them all (Trait Research, Provisioning Recipes, and Reagent Traits) at a much steadier pace.

This solution provided above by @phaneub17_ESO is definitely an ideal solution to those with inventory management problems (which will happen 'a lot' if you don't have a Craft Bag, in all honesty). If you're on PC, the add-ons Research Assistant & AI Research Grid are both worth looking into to keep track of your Trait Research across multiple characters as well as Crafting Motifs known across the board. I prefer working with spreadsheets to do the same as I like using Gamepad Mode and my TV screen, but it's a handy resource, for sure.

I skip doing Writs until each character gets to the 10/10 on crafts, I don't even start the quests for them until at least level 49 on each character for the big experience boost. With it all being Void mats, I can manage having all my characters go to Craglorn to turn it in and not all over the place, I can farm the same mats with every character for every character.

This isn't a bad idea, either!

Currently, I'm doing them from early on as they're an easier way to get gold fast if you're starting over from square one like I did (or if you are a beginner). That's the only real major use I've got out of them so far, other than the Inspiration they give as a nice plus as well. Too bad the Alchemy Writs are still a chore to do. I pretty much avoid them now if I know I don't have the reagents needed.

Great feedback so far, y'all! Keep 'em coming! ^_^

disintegr8 · July 2016

Apologies in advance for long winded responses.

1. My first character learned all professions simultaneously and is a master at everything. This character is currently assigned only to crafting as he does not have enough skill points to maintain his crafting skills (which are still needed for my other characters) and be a competent 'questor' at the same time to earn new skill points.

I currently have 4 CP160 characters leveled up to 50 in everything (yes even enchanting) so that they can all do writs and deliver to Craglorn and Wrothgar.

2. I came into the game wanting to progress through the story line and had no idea why I would want to learn any of the professions or what benefit I might get out of them. I deconstructed things and tried making things but it quickly became too hard for me to understand what I was doing wrong or right so I gave up and just kept doing the story line.

My feeling is that there is insufficient information about everything provided on console for first time users.
That is why my first character got parked at level 49, wearing a mixed up set of looted gear, using weapons/armour not suited to his race or role, with unsuitable skill points and unable to complete the main story line. Hence he became my master crafter.

3. Not really.

4. I do now, but did not do proper research for the first few months as I did not understand what it was, how it worked or how to do it (refer point 2). Because of this I am still learning 8th and 9th traits for some items when I could have completed all of my research a long time ago.

5. Did not do them for a long time as I did not know what they were or how they helped me (refer point 2). I did not know the recipes I needed and did not know where to get them from so stopped trying to do them.

6. a) A new issue introduced with the craft bag is that all materials and styles in the bag are displayed when I go to a crafting station (if I have learned them). Prior to this you had to be carrying the materials, trait gems and style material on the character, so could limit your inventory to only what you needed for your writ crafting levels.

It is now very easy to select the wrong material or style when crafting for a writ (or even an item to use) and accidentally make a quicksilver sword for example when you really mean to make a voidsteel sword. There may be a setting to limit what you want see from your craft bag in your available material list that I do not know of, in which case I refer back to point 2.

b) Bag limits were a constant issue prior to crafting bags.

7.Agree with OP on failed alchemy combinations.
I also think that researching more than one trait on an item should be allowed as long as you are still only researching the allowed total item limit.

logosloki · July 2016

1) I'm still in the process of trying out everything. At the moment I have a spread of points in all professions. I'm only getting to the point now where I was realising that I need to choose a couple of professions (unless I am going to make a crafting alt). I was journeying around early on and found out about the special stations that allow you to make item sets which is 1) one of the coolest things I have seen in any mmo crafting and 2) needs more information about in game because having to go out of the game to find out about crafting sets (and finding out that they need a number of traits researched to be able to be crafted) was a bit of a bummer.

2) I figured it would be tough to make a full crafter and I think that this could be communicated better (I knew it would be tight on the skill point budget but underestimated how tight it would be). A big thing I would have liked to know before I started randomly researching traits was that the time it takes to research is 1) not based on rarity, 2) only one item can be used to research and 3) the time it takes to research the next trait is double (or close to it) the time the last one took.

3) That's crafting xp. Sometimes it feels like the only time the xp bars for crafting ever move is because I do the dailies or deconstruct my entire bag (on a side note, the crafting bag is a godsend). Outside of Provisioning. Because every crafting line other than provision feels like they move at a snail's pace whilst provisioning seems to be able to be leveled on the back of level 15 and then level 25 recipes (side note again. The fact that I loot all of the things and find food to make into food is enjoyable)

4) I do now. I don't like how quickly the research penalty piles up, especially if you research a couple of traits early and then realise that you are after x trait on y gear and the time it will take to get that trait is now

. Especially since you need x traits to get some of the crafted sets.

5) Crafting dailies. The only one I don't like is alchemy because the alchemy daily can be a pain unless you have the specific materials on hand. Also, for some reason it seems like only the lowest rarity (white) glyphs count for enchanting. If I make a higher rarity item, I should be able to choose to give that up to complete a writ.

6) I never seem to have have alchemy materials on me for long and would like it if styles were ordered by how many materials of a style you have rather than their motif number. Finding a woodworking station can feel like a quest in of itself.

7) I wanted to bring up alchemy but I think everyone has that covered. So I'll bring up Rings/Necklaces and some way to deconstruct and create them.

Blackbird_V · July 2016

Korozenn wrote: »

Bonus:
7) What is 'one' thing about crafting that you would like the developers to make better in the future?

Only going answer 7.

Answer: Allow us to chose the model when crafting.

Nestor · July 2016

@Korozenn

There is only one way to get a Nirnhorned item in the game as a drop and this is by completing the Zone Main Quest (both Upper and Lower) for Craglorn. Then you get a random drop in a reward container at the end.

Otherwise, you have to pay for an already traited item at a Guild Store, and it won't be cheap. You can also farm the Nirn yourself, and hand that off to another player who has already learned the trait for them to make an item for you. Note, they probably paid through the teeth for the items they researched so give a generous tip if you do this.

The other thing that makes it a pain, is usually Nirn is the last trait learned, so it takes the longest.

Aemon_Isklexi · July 2016

Nestor wrote: »

@Korozenn
There is only one way to get a Nirnhorned item in the game as a drop and this is by completing the Zone Main Quest (both Upper and Lower) for Craglorn. Then you get a random drop in a reward container at the end.

What I find extra annoying is that you can't complete those quests solo. After the switch from veteran ranks to CP, I went back to Craglorn to try and get some nirnhorned items. I could beat the monsters just fine, but my progress on the main quest came to a halt when I ran into a door that requires three warm bodies to hold down switches.

I'm going to have to drag along some friends/volunteers/payed mercenaries to do outdated content that no one cares about anymore. I find this very aggravating.

Nestor · July 2016

Aemon_Isklexi wrote: »

I'm going to have to drag along some friends/volunteers/payed mercenaries to do outdated content that no one cares about anymore. I find this very aggravating.

@Aemon_Isklexi

Yes, it is quite irksome. Although, you may have some issues beating the final boss in Upper Crag solo*. But, one strategy to get you through the intermediate stuff is to have people who can group with and travel to you for the places where multiple players have to stand on something. Then they can go back to doing what they were doing.

We also ran a Guild event where we would take people through the Craglorn MQ and got several people through it that way.

*There is also a trio of Lamia's in one Delve that you can sneak past, I would recommend that route, while they are beatable, it really does take more than one player to do so, but they are a sub boss so not needed. I don't remember if the Lamia's are on the way to the final boss for the quest or in some other intermediate delve. But, you will see them eventually.

Aemon_Isklexi · July 2016

@Nestor

It's shortsighted design. Devs need to be in the habit of "cradle to grave" thinking when designing content. An end game area that is designed for group play is a fine idea in theory, but any content in an mmo will eventually become outdated. There has to be some allowance for this.

Craglorn isn't current content anymore, and its group focused design has become a millstone around its neck. The only reason players still go to Craglorn is because there is no other way to acquire nirnhorned gear or nirncrux materials. I'd run through the area for the story, but I physically CAN'T thanks to roadblocks like the three switches. There wouldn't be a problem if they hadn't put in such artificial progression blocks. The natural succession of player power with gear and CP would have made overcoming enemy groups challenging but doable.

Nestor · July 2016

@Aemon_Isklexi

Your preaching to the choir. Just so you know, I don't work for the company, I am a community member just like you. I am hoping they fix, and that is the word I am using, fix, Craglorn with One Tamriel and the new scaling being introduced. However, something tells me it will still be a group zone.

disintegr8 · July 2016

Nestor wrote: »

*There is also a trio of Lamia's in one Delve that you can sneak past, I would recommend that route, while they are beatable, it really does take more than one player to do so, but they are a sub boss so not needed. I don't remember if the Lamia's are on the way to the final boss for the quest or in some other intermediate delve. But, you will see them eventually.

Good to know this - my friend and I can complete most of the Craglorn delves easily two up but we got stuck at this one because one of the Lamias has a 29k hit that always instant killed one of us (and one person cannot stay alive against this and res the other). We will look for the sneak route next time.

AntMan100673 · July 2016

I've had the game since launch on console, I don't remember how much/little I knew about crafting back then but common questions I hear are where people don't understand about researching traits and sets. As a follow up to certification there should be a quest/s where it takes you through researching and crafting an item with a trait, and then to craft an item in a 2 trait set.