Concept: Penalties for being picky when LFG

UltimaJoe777 · July 2016

So many people complain these days about groups disbanding or attempting to get rid of you for some unfair reason or another. Then that person has to wait 15 minutes to find another group. As such I propose the following countermeasure: Give the disbander an even LONGER wait time! Maybe an hour would make him think twice about being picky, selfish, and/or condescending

This is just a concept by the way. Feel free to discuss alternate means to reduce people griefing others via Group Finder.

Vercingetorix · July 2016

Or perhaps you should consider that the "disbander" is leaving the group for a reason other than you. People have life events crop up - kids, spouse, toilet, etc... Disbanding the group and letting you all grab a new one is prefectly fine. If a group is struggling to complete content, then the group is ineffective and should be re-made from scratch. I see no issue here - other than maybe you needing to get better gear or seeing every group-disband as a personal attack...

GivvumBoane · July 2016

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Or perhaps you should consider that the "disbander" is leaving the group for a reason other than you. People have life events crop up - kids, spouse, toilet, etc... Disbanding the group and letting you all grab a new one is prefectly fine. If a group is struggling to complete content, then the group is ineffective and should be re-made from scratch. I see no issue here - other than maybe you needing to get better gear or seeing every group-disband as a personal attack...

I think he means groups or individuals being kicked for not having high enough CP, or not having "optimum" gear. Probably referring to getting kicked or disbanded without even attempting the content. Not sure how that sort of thing can be policed though.

UltimaJoe777 · July 2016

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Or perhaps you should consider that the "disbander" is leaving the group for a reason other than you. People have life events crop up - kids, spouse, toilet, etc... Disbanding the group and letting you all grab a new one is prefectly fine. If a group is struggling to complete content, then the group is ineffective and should be re-made from scratch. I see no issue here - other than maybe you needing to get better gear or seeing every group-disband as a personal attack...

If they were going to have to go for a reason like that the moment they got a group they should have not bothered trying to find one. Only LFGs if you have the time to stick it out. If you need to go you can let the others decide if just that person should leave, simply go afk, or they should disband. No real life interference is not a common scenario to disband a group. Leave the group and let the others disband if they wish but don't go forcing a disband just because you need to go.

Vangy · July 2016

Ah, i get it now. Yeah, the disband option should just be dis-allowed in group finder. No need for complicated rules like pnealty etc.

If you have to go, YOU leave and YOU pay the price of waiting penalty. The rest can just re-queue instantly and find a replacement.

Niastissa · July 2016

There is that word "unfair" again. The world isn't fair. I see this happen in other MMO games. It is a fact of life. Pugs are by their very nature a pain.

Your best bet to be able to run this content is join a guild. If you're on the NA server you can try dungeon run with us.

Schemering · July 2016

Id say if you are kicked because of low cp be happy because the group that did it is not confident enough about their own capacities to take a low cp player along;) When already in a dungeon it is very rare to be kicked for anything else than underperforming/not adjusting to team strategy

WillhelmBlack · July 2016

Alright, enough already. LFG tool is for noobs or a player who's got all evening or is looking for a challenge. We've established on these forums that using the tool is gonna be nothing but frustration, use it at your own risk.

Its a silly concept, so is the LFG tool in its current state. You can not even specify your CP level in it so you can be matched with people with similar gear/experience.

TheDarkoil · July 2016

For a random normal I got kicked at cp130 last week along with the message sorry cp not high enough then I saw in the group chat the leader looking for a cp501.....for a normal dungeon rofl.

Schemering · July 2016

TheDarkoil wrote: »

For a random normal I got kicked at cp130 last week along with the message sorry cp not high enough then I saw in the group chat the leader looking for a cp501.....for a normal dungeon rofl.

I reacted on a lfg for a normal pledge in Grathwood zone few days ago. The guy or girl actually asked me how many cp i had. I have more than 800cp so im sure i met their requirements but ofc i refused to go into a normal dungeon with people that have any cp requirement for it. Those dungeons can be done solo so i was a bit shocked by the question about my cp amount. Made me laugh though:)

Eliran · July 2016

Why use group finder, its so bad, just go to your capital city and pick a group from zone ...

Ep1kMalware · July 2016

GivvumBoane wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Or perhaps you should consider that the "disbander" is leaving the group for a reason other than you. People have life events crop up - kids, spouse, toilet, etc... Disbanding the group and letting you all grab a new one is prefectly fine. If a group is struggling to complete content, then the group is ineffective and should be re-made from scratch. I see no issue here - other than maybe you needing to get better gear or seeing every group-disband as a personal attack...

I think he means groups or individuals being kicked for not having high enough CP, or not having "optimum" gear. Probably referring to getting kicked or disbanded without even attempting the content. Not sure how that sort of thing can be policed though.

i don't see anyone getting kicked over that. at least cp wise. tbh I havent found too many people that care too much about it. bad gear/skill choices? *** yeah! if you want to subject others to particularly bizzare nonsense you DESERVE a kick. nobody wants a tank nk=ot taunting amd spamming snipe, or a heavy armour dps that spams wrecking blow. if it's costinf your team sucess (not every team can carry this guy, or should if they don't want to) then yeah, a kick is in order.

Zevlin · July 2016

Hi,

Old hand at ES RP and MMOs, new to ESO MMO.

I have only been in one dungeon "Banished cells". I used LFG tool to get into a group. Ofcourse we wiped a couple times but made it through. At which point I started a new character Redguard Templar with 1HW and shield skill.

I would prefer to have "New to Dungeon" Queue. I catch on fast enough, but I still don't want to rip through a dungeon real fast the first time through. I would not mind playing with a group who are experiencing the dungeon for the first time.

I would like the opportunity to get a fairly new group and communicate with each other, use team work and complete the dungeon

It would allow those people who are grinding through the same dungeon to group with like minded players, and with less disbands. If you click on the "New to Dungeon Queue" expect the need to communicate more, coach players and gel the team.

It would be cool to create some cool loot for a group comprised of players who never before complete the dungeon.

GivvumBoane · July 2016

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

GivvumBoane wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Or perhaps you should consider that the "disbander" is leaving the group for a reason other than you. People have life events crop up - kids, spouse, toilet, etc... Disbanding the group and letting you all grab a new one is prefectly fine. If a group is struggling to complete content, then the group is ineffective and should be re-made from scratch. I see no issue here - other than maybe you needing to get better gear or seeing every group-disband as a personal attack...

I think he means groups or individuals being kicked for not having high enough CP, or not having "optimum" gear. Probably referring to getting kicked or disbanded without even attempting the content. Not sure how that sort of thing can be policed though.

i don't see anyone getting kicked over that. at least cp wise. tbh I havent found too many people that care too much about it. bad gear/skill choices? *** yeah! if you want to subject others to particularly bizzare nonsense you DESERVE a kick. nobody wants a tank nk=ot taunting amd spamming snipe, or a heavy armour dps that spams wrecking blow. if it's costinf your team sucess (not every team can carry this guy, or should if they don't want to) then yeah, a kick is in order.

I think you missed the part about getting kicked or disbanded without even attempting the content. So, they would not really know if that individual is costing the group anything. All that means is the group leader is looking to fill a specific set of variables and is using the LFG tool as a die roll. Variables not met? Disband and reroll. A couple of posts up, someone stated they were kicked for too low cp on a normal dungeon.

lolo_01b16_ESO · July 2016

Vangy wrote: »

Ah, i get it now. Yeah, the disband option should just be dis-allowed in group finder. No need for complicated rules like pnealty etc.

If you have to go, YOU leave and YOU pay the price of waiting penalty. The rest can just re-queue instantly and find a replacement.

Didn't they add that to the game recently? I thought you can now only kick someone if everyone in the group (besides the one getting kicked) votes for a kick and can not disband a group at all.

UltimaJoe777 · July 2016

To those saying "Why bother using Group Finder?" and "Who cares if you get kicked? They no doubt did you a favor by doing so as they are too insecure" and whatnot to answer the first there is extra reward in using it, and while some may not give a damn about it others might. I don't know what all rewards are involved though as I've never used Group Finder myself so I cannot really speak for anyone there but those that know what they are can decide whether it's worth it or not. As for the latter quote, I would normally agree if there wasn't apparently a timer before you could re-queue. Someone should not have that done to them just because the group leader is a condescending jackass with insecurity issues.

Humatiel · July 2016

There are times where a kick is (in my opinion) warranted. I for instance did a WGT run today from a random queue where the other dps was using shuffle/hardened ward with a sword and board with caltrops while having eaten health/magicka food and the lover mundus stone. He was pulling MAX 4k dps and it just wasnt happening and we ended up having to remove him from the group to begin to finish the content.

As carebear as everyone likes to be I queue for dungeons to complete dungeons and while I dont expect the players to be excellent at there jobs (or great/good) I do expect functionally decent. If they are not then the idea of kicking them isn't anything to rage about nor should it be taken personally.

UltimaJoe777 · July 2016

Humatiel wrote: »

There are times where a kick is (in my opinion) warranted. I for instance did a WGT run today from a random queue where the other dps was using shuffle/hardened ward with a sword and board with caltrops while having eaten health/magicka food and the lover mundus stone. He was pulling MAX 4k dps and it just wasnt happening and we ended up having to remove him from the group to begin to finish the content.

I queue for dungeons to complete dungeons and while I dont expect the players to be excellent at there jobs (or great/good) I do expect functionally decent. If they are not then the idea of kicking them isn't anything to rage about nor should it be taken personally.

Fixed to remove toxic term.

As for your ways I know there are going to be groups that want to get the job done quick and efficiently and don't always have the patience to deal with the lesser skilled but that still isn't as bad as assuming someone is bad just because they have low CP.

Vangy · July 2016

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Ah, i get it now. Yeah, the disband option should just be dis-allowed in group finder. No need for complicated rules like pnealty etc.

If you have to go, YOU leave and YOU pay the price of waiting penalty. The rest can just re-queue instantly and find a replacement.

Didn't they add that to the game recently? I thought you can now only kick someone if everyone in the group (besides the one getting kicked) votes for a kick and can not disband a group at all.

If that is the case, then I don't know what OP is asking for anymore. I don't know cos I avoid group finder like the plague lol.

Humatiel · July 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

There are times where a kick is (in my opinion) warranted. I for instance did a WGT run today from a random queue where the other dps was using shuffle/hardened ward with a sword and board with caltrops while having eaten health/magicka food and the lover mundus stone. He was pulling MAX 4k dps and it just wasnt happening and we ended up having to remove him from the group to begin to finish the content.

I queue for dungeons to complete dungeons and while I dont expect the players to be excellent at there jobs (or great/good) I do expect functionally decent. If they are not then the idea of kicking them isn't anything to rage about nor should it be taken personally.

Fixed to remove toxic term.

As for your ways I know there are going to be groups that want to get the job done quick and efficiently and don't always have the patience to deal with the lesser skilled but that still isn't as bad as assuming someone is bad just because they have low CP.

As biased as that statement was I am going to take the half of it that was said constructively as such. 4k dps (single) with 0 aoe cannot complete. This isn't a matter of working with players (because I am happy to) this is a matter of being functionally incapable of finishing. He had no range, 4k single dps and no aoe.

Smileybones · July 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

There are times where a kick is (in my opinion) warranted. I for instance did a WGT run today from a random queue where the other dps was using shuffle/hardened ward with a sword and board with caltrops while having eaten health/magicka food and the lover mundus stone. He was pulling MAX 4k dps and it just wasnt happening and we ended up having to remove him from the group to begin to finish the content.

I queue for dungeons to complete dungeons and while I dont expect the players to be excellent at there jobs (or great/good) I do expect functionally decent. If they are not then the idea of kicking them isn't anything to rage about nor should it be taken personally.

Fixed to remove toxic term.

As for your ways I know there are going to be groups that want to get the job done quick and efficiently and don't always have the patience to deal with the lesser skilled but that still isn't as bad as assuming someone is bad just because they have low CP.

People who want to get the job done quick and efficiently should belong to PVE guilds, not using the group finder.

People being picky while using the group finder are like people who expect gourmet food when going to MacDonalds.

I wish those kind of people would be punished and prevented from making the others's life harder but it'd hard to find a good solution I believe.

disintegr8 · July 2016

If you get kicked from a group you should not have to serve a penalty since the game cannot tell if it is your fault or not.

The penalty system is a waste of time anyway and was only brought in to try and force people to stay in groups so that noobs could get a run in dungeons. People now either don't care about the penalty and leave, or stay in the group and kick those they don't want to play with - which to me is worse.

UltimaJoe777 · July 2016

Humatiel wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

There are times where a kick is (in my opinion) warranted. I for instance did a WGT run today from a random queue where the other dps was using shuffle/hardened ward with a sword and board with caltrops while having eaten health/magicka food and the lover mundus stone. He was pulling MAX 4k dps and it just wasnt happening and we ended up having to remove him from the group to begin to finish the content.

I queue for dungeons to complete dungeons and while I dont expect the players to be excellent at there jobs (or great/good) I do expect functionally decent. If they are not then the idea of kicking them isn't anything to rage about nor should it be taken personally.

Fixed to remove toxic term.

As for your ways I know there are going to be groups that want to get the job done quick and efficiently and don't always have the patience to deal with the lesser skilled but that still isn't as bad as assuming someone is bad just because they have low CP.

As biased as that statement was I am going to take the half of it that was said constructively as such. 4k dps (single) with 0 aoe cannot complete. This isn't a matter of working with players (because I am happy to) this is a matter of being functionally incapable of finishing. He had no range, 4k single dps and no aoe.

If I ever met someone like that I would honestly take the time to inform them their build has shortcomings and help them find ways to improve. Then again, if they have Caltrops and a build that isn't working well in general there's a chance they do nothing but ride piggyback in both PvE and PvP. In those cases I would inform them to make a proper build and do your part and if they refuse THEN I'd boot them.

Humatiel · July 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

There are times where a kick is (in my opinion) warranted. I for instance did a WGT run today from a random queue where the other dps was using shuffle/hardened ward with a sword and board with caltrops while having eaten health/magicka food and the lover mundus stone. He was pulling MAX 4k dps and it just wasnt happening and we ended up having to remove him from the group to begin to finish the content.

I queue for dungeons to complete dungeons and while I dont expect the players to be excellent at there jobs (or great/good) I do expect functionally decent. If they are not then the idea of kicking them isn't anything to rage about nor should it be taken personally.

Fixed to remove toxic term.

As for your ways I know there are going to be groups that want to get the job done quick and efficiently and don't always have the patience to deal with the lesser skilled but that still isn't as bad as assuming someone is bad just because they have low CP.

As biased as that statement was I am going to take the half of it that was said constructively as such. 4k dps (single) with 0 aoe cannot complete. This isn't a matter of working with players (because I am happy to) this is a matter of being functionally incapable of finishing. He had no range, 4k single dps and no aoe.

If I ever met someone like that I would honestly take the time to inform them their build has shortcomings and help them find ways to improve. Then again, if they have Caltrops and a build that isn't working well in general there's a chance they do nothing but ride piggyback in both PvE and PvP. In those cases I would inform them to make a proper build and do your part and if they refuse THEN I'd boot them.

Thats fair, I can commend that degree of patience. Literally everything about his build was incorrect though, from the food to the mundus to the gear. I honestly wouldn't have a clue how to begin to fix that mid dungeon.

UltimaJoe777 · July 2016

Humatiel wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

There are times where a kick is (in my opinion) warranted. I for instance did a WGT run today from a random queue where the other dps was using shuffle/hardened ward with a sword and board with caltrops while having eaten health/magicka food and the lover mundus stone. He was pulling MAX 4k dps and it just wasnt happening and we ended up having to remove him from the group to begin to finish the content.

I queue for dungeons to complete dungeons and while I dont expect the players to be excellent at there jobs (or great/good) I do expect functionally decent. If they are not then the idea of kicking them isn't anything to rage about nor should it be taken personally.

Fixed to remove toxic term.

As for your ways I know there are going to be groups that want to get the job done quick and efficiently and don't always have the patience to deal with the lesser skilled but that still isn't as bad as assuming someone is bad just because they have low CP.

As biased as that statement was I am going to take the half of it that was said constructively as such. 4k dps (single) with 0 aoe cannot complete. This isn't a matter of working with players (because I am happy to) this is a matter of being functionally incapable of finishing. He had no range, 4k single dps and no aoe.

If I ever met someone like that I would honestly take the time to inform them their build has shortcomings and help them find ways to improve. Then again, if they have Caltrops and a build that isn't working well in general there's a chance they do nothing but ride piggyback in both PvE and PvP. In those cases I would inform them to make a proper build and do your part and if they refuse THEN I'd boot them.

Thats fair, I can commend that degree of patience. Literally everything about his build was incorrect though, from the food to the mundus to the gear. I honestly wouldn't have a clue how to begin to fix that mid dungeon.

The dungeon run would be you seeing his build. After the run is when you can school him lol

Humatiel · July 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

There are times where a kick is (in my opinion) warranted. I for instance did a WGT run today from a random queue where the other dps was using shuffle/hardened ward with a sword and board with caltrops while having eaten health/magicka food and the lover mundus stone. He was pulling MAX 4k dps and it just wasnt happening and we ended up having to remove him from the group to begin to finish the content.

I queue for dungeons to complete dungeons and while I dont expect the players to be excellent at there jobs (or great/good) I do expect functionally decent. If they are not then the idea of kicking them isn't anything to rage about nor should it be taken personally.

Fixed to remove toxic term.

As for your ways I know there are going to be groups that want to get the job done quick and efficiently and don't always have the patience to deal with the lesser skilled but that still isn't as bad as assuming someone is bad just because they have low CP.

As biased as that statement was I am going to take the half of it that was said constructively as such. 4k dps (single) with 0 aoe cannot complete. This isn't a matter of working with players (because I am happy to) this is a matter of being functionally incapable of finishing. He had no range, 4k single dps and no aoe.

If I ever met someone like that I would honestly take the time to inform them their build has shortcomings and help them find ways to improve. Then again, if they have Caltrops and a build that isn't working well in general there's a chance they do nothing but ride piggyback in both PvE and PvP. In those cases I would inform them to make a proper build and do your part and if they refuse THEN I'd boot them.

Thats fair, I can commend that degree of patience. Literally everything about his build was incorrect though, from the food to the mundus to the gear. I honestly wouldn't have a clue how to begin to fix that mid dungeon.

The dungeon run would be you seeing his build. After the run is when you can school him lol

I see, yeah I wasn't willing to carry him at 4k dps, we would have to leave him outside when we did planar and just wasn't worth the time. Very respectable though if you are willing to do that with a non-guildy.

UltimaJoe777 · July 2016

Humatiel wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

There are times where a kick is (in my opinion) warranted. I for instance did a WGT run today from a random queue where the other dps was using shuffle/hardened ward with a sword and board with caltrops while having eaten health/magicka food and the lover mundus stone. He was pulling MAX 4k dps and it just wasnt happening and we ended up having to remove him from the group to begin to finish the content.

I queue for dungeons to complete dungeons and while I dont expect the players to be excellent at there jobs (or great/good) I do expect functionally decent. If they are not then the idea of kicking them isn't anything to rage about nor should it be taken personally.

Fixed to remove toxic term.

As for your ways I know there are going to be groups that want to get the job done quick and efficiently and don't always have the patience to deal with the lesser skilled but that still isn't as bad as assuming someone is bad just because they have low CP.

As biased as that statement was I am going to take the half of it that was said constructively as such. 4k dps (single) with 0 aoe cannot complete. This isn't a matter of working with players (because I am happy to) this is a matter of being functionally incapable of finishing. He had no range, 4k single dps and no aoe.

If I ever met someone like that I would honestly take the time to inform them their build has shortcomings and help them find ways to improve. Then again, if they have Caltrops and a build that isn't working well in general there's a chance they do nothing but ride piggyback in both PvE and PvP. In those cases I would inform them to make a proper build and do your part and if they refuse THEN I'd boot them.

Thats fair, I can commend that degree of patience. Literally everything about his build was incorrect though, from the food to the mundus to the gear. I honestly wouldn't have a clue how to begin to fix that mid dungeon.

The dungeon run would be you seeing his build. After the run is when you can school him lol

I see, yeah I wasn't willing to carry him at 4k dps, we would have to leave him outside when we did planar and just wasn't worth the time. Very respectable though if you are willing to do that with a non-guildy.

A team is only as good as you make it out to be, or mould it into. Also would be a plus if he decided to join my guild for helping him lol but that's beside the point

kargen27 · July 2016

Zevlin wrote: »

Hi,

Old hand at ES RP and MMOs, new to ESO MMO.

I have only been in one dungeon "Banished cells". I used LFG tool to get into a group. Ofcourse we wiped a couple times but made it through. At which point I started a new character Redguard Templar with 1HW and shield skill.

I would prefer to have "New to Dungeon" Queue. I catch on fast enough, but I still don't want to rip through a dungeon real fast the first time through. I would not mind playing with a group who are experiencing the dungeon for the first time.

I would like the opportunity to get a fairly new group and communicate with each other, use team work and complete the dungeon

It would allow those people who are grinding through the same dungeon to group with like minded players, and with less disbands. If you click on the "New to Dungeon Queue" expect the need to communicate more, coach players and gel the team.

It would be cool to create some cool loot for a group comprised of players who never before complete the dungeon.

This is how I look at the group finder for normal dungeons. A tool for people who might not have much experience in a dungeon to get with a group and gain that experience. When I use group finder for normal I go in with the knowledge that we might not even finish the dungeon and if we do that is just a bonus. A few times I have been in a group that says they are looking to do a clean run (no deaths) are just going to burn through really quick for the points, whatever. For people that want to do those type things they really should have four in the group before using the random dungeon option. People wanting to do speed runs or no death runs should bump it up to running vet dungeons. I almost always get a really good group when I go with vet dungeon instead of normal with the group finder.

People who want only top notch players in their group probably shouldn't be looking for them queuing for content meant for less experienced players. And conversely you shouldn't queue up for a vet dungeon if you aren't quite ready for them yet and expect to be carried.

kargen27 · July 2016

Humatiel wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

There are times where a kick is (in my opinion) warranted. I for instance did a WGT run today from a random queue where the other dps was using shuffle/hardened ward with a sword and board with caltrops while having eaten health/magicka food and the lover mundus stone. He was pulling MAX 4k dps and it just wasnt happening and we ended up having to remove him from the group to begin to finish the content.

I queue for dungeons to complete dungeons and while I dont expect the players to be excellent at there jobs (or great/good) I do expect functionally decent. If they are not then the idea of kicking them isn't anything to rage about nor should it be taken personally.

Fixed to remove toxic term.

As for your ways I know there are going to be groups that want to get the job done quick and efficiently and don't always have the patience to deal with the lesser skilled but that still isn't as bad as assuming someone is bad just because they have low CP.

As biased as that statement was I am going to take the half of it that was said constructively as such. 4k dps (single) with 0 aoe cannot complete. This isn't a matter of working with players (because I am happy to) this is a matter of being functionally incapable of finishing. He had no range, 4k single dps and no aoe.

If I were in this situation I would first ask if they have a different skill set they can switch to and provide more DPS. If they say no then just let them know with what they have now there is no way the group can finish. Then depending on response either tell them have a nice day (my response when they are rude and indignant because it makes them even more mad) or invite them to join our guild so we can make some gear changes and other things to help after the rest of the group finishes the dungeon. I play the game to relax and have fun so I try not to get to upset with others or act harshly towards them, and I am not saying that you acted harshly or anything just sharing my views. One thing that does get my ire up quick though is when someone has healer or tank selected then when they get into group admit they are DPS but that is okay because this dungeon doesn't really need a tank/healer anyway.

Mojmir · July 2016

no more penalties or punishments

Ethromelb14_ESO · July 2016

An hour extension on the penalty will be ineffective against someone that legitimately needed to leave. And those that are trying to continue playing will be inconvenienced. I agree with extending the penalty. Typically it's healers that leave groups that aren't perfect, because they build their cookie-cutter characters to be dependent on tanks, just like every other MMO they've perhaps played.

I've seen dungeons completed by a group of only dpses. But healers ... they get scared and want to leave. I understand the hassle of being a healer, because I've done it often, but that's the role they chose, so deal with it. First try, and if there is no success to be had, then the group can agree to hang it up, or find out who is the weakest link and kick them.