If you can, go and watch last weeks ESO Live on Twitch. Go to the player questions bit, and someone actually asked this.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom answered along the lines of their original line of thought was that Impen gear was not needed outside of PvP, which is why it wasn't dropping in PvE.

However, with the alteration to the impen trait, this is now under review, so I would guess that it may appear hopefully in the near future.

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

If you can, go and watch last weeks ESO Live on Twitch. Go to the player questions bit, and someone actually asked this.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom answered along the lines of their original line of thought was that Impen gear was not needed outside of PvP, which is why it wasn't dropping in PvE.

However, with the alteration to the impen trait, this is now under review, so I would guess that it may appear hopefully in the near future.

That explains impen sorta, but I still don't understand the logic of end game gear dropping in training or prosperous. Woot my skoria is prosperous, I'll be rich in no time -_-

Transairion wrote: »

Lots of traits are useless depending on build, buck up and deal with it. Something is still better than nothing; my only Skoria helm after several months of Pledges is Prosperous. And FYI, unless you have several thousand CP Training isn't useless.


Would you rather have the old traits? Your much-loved Impen has the old Sturdy attached to it, yet that Sturdy was the old Prosperous by everyone's standards back then... but let's ignore that piece of history and go back to dumping on Prosperous and Training some more like the other cool kids.


Remove all traits except Impen and Divines is the only solution apparently.

On end game gear, traits like prosperous and training are definitely useless. Would you go into Sanctum with training gear?

K4RMA wrote: »

I liked the changes they did to traits, making it impossible to farm for PVP players is something I did not like

ZOS were listening to us PvPers. We kept saying we didn't like farming pve for gear we needed to be competitive in pvp. Ta-Da! No more Pve grinding for us! See, ZOS does listen...

Caza99 wrote: »

K4RMA wrote: »

I liked the changes they did to traits, making it impossible to farm for PVP players is something I did not like

ZOS were listening to us PvPers. We kept saying we didn't like farming pve for gear we needed to be competitive in pvp. Ta-Da! No more Pve grinding for us! See, ZOS does listen...

The vendor in Cyro really is crappy tho
2 helms and 2 shoulders per month in Impen random sets(can be duplicates)
daily pledge goers get 56 chances per character per month to get their shoulders in their desired trait

#balancebyzose

K4RMA wrote: »

Caza99 wrote: »

K4RMA wrote: »

I liked the changes they did to traits, making it impossible to farm for PVP players is something I did not like

ZOS were listening to us PvPers. We kept saying we didn't like farming pve for gear we needed to be competitive in pvp. Ta-Da! No more Pve grinding for us! See, ZOS does listen...

The vendor in Cyro really is crappy tho
2 helms and 2 shoulders per month in Impen random sets(can be duplicates)
daily pledge goers get 56 chances per character per month to get their shoulders in their desired trait

#balancebyzose

Meh even if Impen was in loot tables I would still only get my monster stuff from vendor, PvE too boring for me xD I got half way thru CoA and was already bored. Thankfully I got infused helm first run so no need to go back there

Transairion wrote: »

Impen has a use at end game, i.e end game pvp. Sturdy and reinforced are used in pvp and pve tanks, well fitted used a lot on stamina in pvp, divine used both pve and pvp, infused used in both...I could keep going. Point is there is literally no argument you could make that training or prosperous have a place in end game loot tables.

I'm sorry I thought we were talking about Veteran Trials (or even endgame PvE), I'm seeing a lot of "well I can use this in my PvP build so PvE drop it is" there. Traits vary in value entirely based on build/role/etc; my main is a Magicka Sorc who doesn't PvP.

So Sturdy is trash, Impen is trash, Reinforced is trash and Well Fitted is trash I'll never use in any situation.

Prosperous/Training are niche, but they're the same generic level of value across the board. Hard to swallow it must be, that something I'll use sometimes has more value than something I'll never ever use on specific builds/characters.

What if I want to grind at max level for more CP? I should not be allowed to get a Monster Set, or anything else that's a CP160 drop in Training/Propserous just because you don't like it? There's an argument right there I'm sure you'll dismiss as "invalid".

I'd already be wearing a full set of Training to do Cadwell's right now, if my armor set/s wasn't a 9-peice crafted set and monster set I can't self-craft to replace. Pretty sure most everyone will be clamouring for Training when the next "Cakebuff" period arrives as well.

First, sturdy and reinforced both have uses in PvE.
Second, only 2 of the traits I mentioned were pvp specific uses - well fitted and impen. Way to ignore the fact I said PvE for everything else.

Hard to swallow it must be, that something I'll use sometimes has more value than something I'll never ever use on specific builds/characters.

I just...*sigh*
Thirdly, you don't need training to grind and even if you wanted training to grind why in the world would you need an end game monster set to do so?

First, sturdy and reinforced both have uses in PvE.
Second, only 2 of the traits I mentioned were pvp specific uses - well fitted and impen. Way to ignore the fact I said PvE for everything else.

Oops, looks like someone forgot the quote system exists and the past comes back to haunt you!

Impen has a use at end game, i.e end game pvp. Sturdy and reinforced are used in pvp and pve tanks, well fitted used a lot on stamina in pvp, divine used both pve and pvp, infused used in both...I could keep going. Point is there is literally no argument you could make that training or prosperous have a place in end game loot tables.

That's, by your own count, 6 PvP-specific trait examples out of only 9 traits... meaning the only trait you didn't mention (outside Training/Prosperous) was Nirnhorned.

Every trait is useful in PvE, that their whole point. If you want to argue Training/Prosperous are useless, then you have to consider stuff like PvE Impen as well (aka old Study, aka the old worst trait in the game) and then it doesn't make any sense. The only people arguing that some traits are useless and need to be taken away are the Anti-Prosperous/Training crowd.

Hard to swallow it must be, that something I'll use sometimes has more value than something I'll never ever use on specific builds/characters.

I just...*sigh*
Thirdly, you don't need training to grind and even if you wanted training to grind why in the world would you need an end game monster set to do so?

Aren't you here trying to convince me that, by virtue of you specifically never wanting to use Training/Prosperous they should be removed from loot entirely? I'm never going to use half the traits on my Sorc, by that logic I should argue to remove all those, they're useless after all.

I'd say you most certainly need Training to grind if you're going to be effiecent, or is +80% (8 x 10% purple) experience from mob kills somehow a bad thing? Wasn't the cake buff +50% exp from all sources? As for endgame-sets, the same reason you want them in Impen. To be efficient, to be better. Impen isn't a "requirement" for PvP, people just stack a hella crit so you'll do better in PvP the more Impen you have to counter that. In PvE, you'll do better wearing a Training Monster Set than wearing a Training starter island hat.


Now, if Impen really is as key for PvP, you SHOULD be instead asking Zenimax to remove Impen from the game entirely and have a full Impen's set effects be a baseline PvP effect: that way you go ahead into PvP wearing full Divines or otherwise and not be worse off, as you (apparently) are now.

Impen should be on the loot tables and Training and Prosperous removed.
Training and Prosperous have their place in the game, but not on end game gear.
While Impen has its use in end game content, PvP, therefore it should be on the loot tables.
Or, we would need to have ways of acquiring every single piece of gear in Impen. Otherwise it's just PvP getting screwed once more and a ton of incredibly awesome sets being created for nothing.

While Impen has its use in end game content, PvP, therefore it should be on the loot tables.
Or, we would need to have ways of acquiring every single piece of gear in Impen. Otherwise it's just PvP getting screwed once more and a ton of incredibly awesome sets being created for nothing.

Again, if Impen is THIS key for PvP, shouldn't we be trying to get Zenimax to make entering PvP give you this automatically so you can wear whatever you want?

This removes Impen from cluttering drops, while giving PvPers the benefit at all times they need it and not affecting PvE in any way. Isn't that a situation where there are no "losers"? Open World PvP doesn't exist in ESO, does it (I assume Imperial City/Sewers counts as a PvP zones, but I don't actually have that DLC so can't confirm), so having "PvP gear" and "PvE gear" be separate doesn't really change anything does it?

Typhoios wrote: »

Transairion wrote: »

While Impen has its use in end game content, PvP, therefore it should be on the loot tables.
Or, we would need to have ways of acquiring every single piece of gear in Impen. Otherwise it's just PvP getting screwed once more and a ton of incredibly awesome sets being created for nothing.

Again, if Impen is THIS key for PvP, shouldn't we be trying to get Zenimax to make entering PvP give you this automatically so you can wear whatever you want?

This removes Impen from cluttering drops, while giving PvPers the benefit at all times they need it and not affecting PvE in any way. Isn't that a situation where there are no "losers"? Open World PvP doesn't exist in ESO, does it (I assume Imperial City/Sewers counts as a PvP zones, but I don't actually have that DLC so can't confirm), so having "PvP gear" and "PvE gear" be separate doesn't really change anything does it?

Impen is key in PvP just like divines is key in PvE dps. If you want to be doing top dps you should be wearing divines. This doesn't mean that they should just give everyone the effect of divines without wearing divines so they can wear "whatever they want"

What people are trying to tell you is that all gear has its uses in end game for either PvE and PvP besides training and prosperous. When people talk endgame they mean vet dungeons, trials, and PvP. They do not mean grinding mobs, because being at endgame should imply that you don't need more xp so training is useless. Now for prosperous, if you are at end game there are so many ways to make money that is better than farming gold off mobs, thus making prosperous rather pointless.

All the other traits have combat uses in either PvP or PvE that helps you survive or kill things faster. It might not be for your build, but some build could use it successfully. Training and prosperous have no combat uses and will not help you kill things or survive and that combat is what is considered endgame. Nobody is ever going to make an endgame tank, heal or dps build and say you should have training or prosperous on any pieces because those traits do not help you do any endgame content.

I agree

Impen is key in PvP just like divines is key in PvE dps. If you want to be doing top dps you should be wearing divines. This doesn't mean that they should just give everyone the effect of divines without wearing divines so they can wear "whatever they want"

Divines also drops in PvE content, for PvE content and has a (if not the best) PvE use.

You want Impen to drop in PvE content again, for PvP use and has a PvE use that is one of, if not the worst PvE use in the game. Getting a PvE set in Impen is just as "bad" as getting it in Training/Prosperous, slower armor destruction is not anymore useful than the former two.

If anyone actually wants to TEST full Propserous VS full Impen (as people like to claim), please do get a full set of each then go farm a delve/dungeon full of bandits in a Gold Zone and see the difference between gold dropped V savings from armor breaking slower.

What people are trying to tell you is that all gear has its uses in end game for either PvE and PvP besides training and prosperous. When people talk endgame they mean vet dungeons, trials, and PvP. They do not mean grinding mobs, because being at endgame should imply that you don't need more xp so training is useless. Now for prosperous, if you are at end game there are so many ways to make money that is better than farming gold off mobs, thus making prosperous rather pointless.

All the other traits have combat uses in either PvP or PvE that helps you survive or kill things faster. It might not be for your build, but some build could use it successfully. Training and prosperous have no combat uses and will not help you kill things or survive and that combat is what is considered endgame. Nobody is ever going to make an endgame tank, heal or dps build and say you should have training or prosperous on any pieces because those traits do not help you do any endgame content.

Endgame level =/= "I no longer have any use for Exp or Gold", all the grinders can attest to that. 501CP is not a hard cap, especially not when Zenimax says time and time again that soft-cap of 501 WILL be raised. But please, half the traits don't have real combat uses, and again it's entirely based on build.

Training/Prosperous will function on literally EVERY BUILD POSSIBLE, most of the traits aren't that broad in any sense. Specific traits are useful on specific builds and most of the rest are vendor trash, repeat for every build in the game. If you want to justify "everything is useful" "but only if you include every possible build", then how can you discount the other two which literally work on everything?

Here's the actual list:

Divines: +% Mundus Stone effect
Prosperous: + Gold % dropped off mobs
Impenetrable: + flat Crit Resist (PvE mobs can't crit), 50% slower item degradation (items don't degrade in PvP)
Infused: +% armor enchantment
Nirnhorned: +flat resists
Reinforced: +% armor
Sturdy: -% block cost
Training: +% experience from mobs
Well Fitted: -% sprint/dodge cost

How many PvE DPS builds are going to be using anything that isn't Divines?

How many PvE healers are going to use anything other than Divines/Infused?

How many PvE tanks are going to use anything other than Sturdy/Divines?

How many PvP (all roles?) are going to go anything but full Impen?

Every build will have a handful of good traits and the rest will ALWAYS be vendor trash. DPS aren't going to be slapping on Nirnhorned armor, or Reinforced, or Sturdy or Well-Fitted. There's no case to get them removed, because some other role or build could feasibly use them.

You can use Training/Prosperous on literally any build. You're not going to take it into Veteran Maw of Lorkjaw, no, but you're not going to take anything other than Divines in there either. There really isn't any harm with these dropping, like the rest of the traits (either what you want, or vendor trash)... people are just especially butthurt about these two.

You really want to get all those Trial gold drops in stuff like Reinforced for your DPS, Sturdy for your healer? Hate all the terrible endgame traits then, RNG will be RNG.