Costume Dying and Non Subscribers

zardenurghanb14_ESO · July 2016

Looking through the update notes for update 11 I saw that being abel to freely dye a costume is a privlage for ESOPLUS members where as those of us with out it need to buy "dye stamps" that are pre selected? Just why? It honestly seems rather silly to do this when we can dye any armor any color already and is kind of pissing on the people who don't sub if they have rare dyes they wanna use on a costume. This would make sense if the same applied to armors but this is not the case. I'd gladly buy crowns to unlock a dye but buying crowns to get a costume and then buying more to get a "stamp" that i really have no coice in choosing colors for is and I'll say it again utterly stupid.

Feel free to disagree with me on this but honestly this is some EA level of stupidity.

zardenurghanb14_ESO · July 2016

Small edit not really. I would have posted Cartman in Best Buy but thats a lil too rude for the forums.

zardenurghanb14_ESO · July 2016

I personally feel that maybe they should change how armor is dyed too because why not at least *** in our mouths and not just on our heads? Whos with me put armor dying on this stamp nonsense and lock achievment dyes behind the sub wall too!

Anyone?

BlackSparrow · July 2016

[old lady voice]All this fuss about dying costumes... In my day, we didn't have no costumes or none of these new-fangled dye stations neither. Whatever color the armor came in, that was what we got! And we walked uphill both ways to craft it, too![/old lady voice]

Dyes and other cosmetic things have always been free game when it comes to cash shop items in any MMO, and I'm not surprised they're using something like this as a subscriber perk. It's a relatively minor, cosmetic thing. I'm not saying you're wrong that there is a difference between what subscribers get and what is available in the crown store, just that it's a relatively minor difference that is clearly meant to entice subscriptions from people who are into cosmetics, just as the crafting bags entice crafters. ZOS needs money to keep its servers running, after all.

Honestly, ESO has in-game, free dye stations. That's a lot better than a lot of MMOs. As someone who started before those were implemented, costume dye stamps are pure frosting.

zardenurghanb14_ESO · July 2016

BlackSparrow wrote: »

[old lady voice]All this fuss about dying costumes... In my day, we didn't have no costumes or none of these new-fangled dye stations neither. Whatever color the armor came in, that was what we got! And we walked uphill both ways to craft it, too![/old lady voice]

Dyes and other cosmetic things have always been free game when it comes to cash shop items in any MMO, and I'm not surprised they're using something like this as a subscriber perk. It's a relatively minor, cosmetic thing. I'm not saying you're wrong that there is a difference between what subscribers get and what is available in the crown store, just that it's a relatively minor difference that is clearly meant to entice subscriptions from people who are into cosmetics, just as the crafting bags entice crafters. ZOS needs money to keep its servers running, after all.

Honestly, ESO has in-game, free dye stations. That's a lot better than a lot of MMOs. As someone who started before those were implemented, costume dye stamps are pure frosting.

Yes the in game dye stations are great however if you read the update page you dont choose the color of the stamp and using the dye station to dye a costume is strictly for esoplus members and they dont need stamps they can choose from all of the unlocked dyes they have non members like myself need to buy these preselected stamp colors none of which will have any rare dye colors and are one time use per. Non members are pretty much stuck to shelling out cash for dyes we may already have unlocked theres no reason that this should honestly be a thing. This is of corse asuming you need to first buy the dlc and a costume and depending on the price per stamp which will most likely be 500 crowns each thats a lot of cash to fork over for something we non members really have no choice in when ir comes to color selection.

BlackSparrow · July 2016

zardenurghanb14_ESO wrote: »

Yes the in game dye stations are great however if you read the update page you dont choose the color of the stamp and using the dye station to dye a costume is strictly for esoplus members and they dont need stamps they can choose from all of the unlocked dyes they have non members like myself need to buy these preselected stamp colors none of which will have any rare dye colors and are one time use per. Non members are pretty much stuck to shelling out cash for dyes we may already have unlocked theres no reason that this should honestly be a thing. This is of corse asuming you need to first buy the dlc and a costume and depending on the price per stamp which will most likely be 500 crowns each thats a lot of cash to fork over for something we non members really have no choice in when ir comes to color selection.

I never said you could choose costume colors at the dye stations. That wasn't my point. My point was that this is a cosmetic perk, and so the devs are in no way overstepping themselves to ask people to pay for it, either by subscribing or buying the stamps from the Crown store. Yes, there is a difference between what the subscribers get versus what nonsubscribers get, but that is their prerogative.

Costume dying is a perk. Period. The fact that they're treating free, nonstamp costume dying as a loyalty reward for subscribers is their choice. No, it's not fair to nonsubscribers, but it's far better for them to hold something cosmetic like that back for ESO+ than anything that legitimately affects gameplay.

If I were picking something to cry foul on (which I'm not), I'd be way more upset about the crafting bags.

RogueShade · July 2016

I don't think it would be unreasonable to include the ability to dye costumes freely with the DLC purchase. 1500 crowns for 2 dungeons?! It's 2000 for a DLC with a new zone and rather large quest line. I have ESO+ so either way I could dye costumes if I wanted to but the dye stamps are just a really stupid idea. I dye my armor because their color choices are generally terrible.

Vaoh · July 2016

ZOS is money hungry..... what else is there to say

Just do what I'm gonna do. Buy or earn every costume you need! Subscribe for the first month that Update 11 releases. Dye every single costume on every one of your characters while you can, then be happy

BlackSparrow · July 2016

Doncellius wrote: »

Just do what I'm gonna do. Buy or earn every costume you need! Subscribe for the first month that Update 11 releases. Dye every single costume on every one of your characters while you can, then be happy

That's pretty much the way to do it, yeah. In fact, I wonder if this is what they want everyone to do... then they hook you by letting you run around with the Crafting Bag for a month. XD

Doncellius wrote: »

ZOS is money hungry..... what else is there to say

I am so tired of seeing this around. Of course they want money... they need to pay for servers, for staff, for overhead, for all sorts of expenses you and I could never comprehend in an MMO market that could be considered fluctuating on a good day, all while still somehow letting a large portion of the player base have a full, balanced experience of the game for absolutely free.

When it comes to what they've chosen to make you pay for and sub for, ZOS is really reasonable compared to some of the free-to-play, pay-to-win MMOs I've tried over the years. That's probably about why I'm so blase about dye stamps, tbh.

PURPLE245 · July 2016

i dont see any issue there just giving people who support the game more reasons to support the game making games it not free so why make everything free imp eso has a much much better "membership" then any other games i have played even just the craft bags is enough for me your lucky the game it not a sub only game anymore.....

zardenurghanb14_ESO · July 2016

PURPLE245 wrote: »

i dont see any issue there just giving people who support the game more reasons to support the game making games it not free so why make everything free imp eso has a much much better "membership" then any other games i have played even just the craft bags is enough for me your lucky the game it not a sub only game.....

it used to be a sub only game

zardenurghanb14_ESO · July 2016

BlackSparrow wrote: »

zardenurghanb14_ESO wrote: »

Yes the in game dye stations are great however if you read the update page you dont choose the color of the stamp and using the dye station to dye a costume is strictly for esoplus members and they dont need stamps they can choose from all of the unlocked dyes they have non members like myself need to buy these preselected stamp colors none of which will have any rare dye colors and are one time use per. Non members are pretty much stuck to shelling out cash for dyes we may already have unlocked theres no reason that this should honestly be a thing. This is of corse asuming you need to first buy the dlc and a costume and depending on the price per stamp which will most likely be 500 crowns each thats a lot of cash to fork over for something we non members really have no choice in when ir comes to color selection.

I never said you could choose costume colors at the dye stations. That wasn't my point. My point was that this is a cosmetic perk, and so the devs are in no way overstepping themselves to ask people to pay for it, either by subscribing or buying the stamps from the Crown store. Yes, there is a difference between what the subscribers get versus what nonsubscribers get, but that is their prerogative.

Costume dying is a perk. Period. The fact that they're treating free, nonstamp costume dying as a loyalty reward for subscribers is their choice. No, it's not fair to nonsubscribers, but it's far better for them to hold something cosmetic like that back for ESO+ than anything that legitimately affects gameplay.

If I were picking something to cry foul on (which I'm not), I'd be way more upset about the crafting bags.

Ehh crafting bags arent a big deal if u send yer crafting stuff to the bank really or sell them if u dont use them see my issus with the stamps is you get 0 choice on the ones available theyre one time use and dont unlock the dyes outright and on top of that being that anyone can dye armor for free is a thing theres really no point to locking dyeing costumes so only eso+ members can use any dye they choose

Brrrofski · July 2016

So much dye station and crafting bag crying. It's £9 a month. If you can't afford it, you have more important things to focus on. Ifyo udon't get it out of principle, that's your decision, own it or change it, don't moan though.

zardenurghanb14_ESO · July 2016

Brrrofski wrote: »

So much dye station and crafting bag crying. It's £9 a month. If you can't afford it, you have more important things to focus on. Ifyo udon't get it out of principle, that's your decision, own it or change it, don't moan though.

I dont honestly don't care about the craft bag however limiting it so only eso+ members can use a function on costumes that everyone can already use on armor is still a real stupid idea. There are a ton of other options they could have done but seeing as how you prolly don't pay for your sub yourself it prolly wont affect you. I'm not looking at it from really a monatary perspective but more or less a fair one. Non members can only choose STAMPS the stamps arent from dyes we have but pre selected and they wont contain any of the rare achievment dyes which most people use. Id honestly rather pay crowns to have access to the dye station for costume use rather then buying "stamps" of dyes I've already earned.

Brrrofski · July 2016

zardenurghanb14_ESO wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

So much dye station and crafting bag crying. It's £9 a month. If you can't afford it, you have more important things to focus on. Ifyo udon't get it out of principle, that's your decision, own it or change it, don't moan though.

I dont honestly don't care about the craft bag however limiting it so only eso+ members can use a function on costumes that everyone can already use on armor is still a real stupid idea. There are a ton of other options they could have done but seeing as how you prolly don't pay for your sub yourself it prolly wont affect you. I'm not looking at it from really a monatary perspective but more or less a fair one. Non members can only choose STAMPS the stamps arent from dyes we have but pre selected and they wont contain any of the rare achievment dyes which most people use. Id honestly rather pay crowns to have access to the dye station for costume use rather then buying "stamps" of dyes I've already earned.

It's not stupid. It's to get people to subscribe so they have a constant, reliable income. It's good business model. It's not something you NEED to play the game competitively. It doesn't put you at a disadvantage. It's just something extra.

You can get involved by paying every month. It's a business at the end of the day. Making money means they can keep the game running. Making a set amount of monthly income means they can measure success and plan for the future more effectively.

It's £9 a month. Pay it or deal with it.

zardenurghanb14_ESO · July 2016

Brrrofski wrote: »

zardenurghanb14_ESO wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

So much dye station and crafting bag crying. It's £9 a month. If you can't afford it, you have more important things to focus on. Ifyo udon't get it out of principle, that's your decision, own it or change it, don't moan though.

I dont honestly don't care about the craft bag however limiting it so only eso+ members can use a function on costumes that everyone can already use on armor is still a real stupid idea. There are a ton of other options they could have done but seeing as how you prolly don't pay for your sub yourself it prolly wont affect you. I'm not looking at it from really a monatary perspective but more or less a fair one. Non members can only choose STAMPS the stamps arent from dyes we have but pre selected and they wont contain any of the rare achievment dyes which most people use. Id honestly rather pay crowns to have access to the dye station for costume use rather then buying "stamps" of dyes I've already earned.

It's not stupid. It's to get people to subscribe so they have a constant, reliable income. It's good business model. It's not something you NEED to play the game competitively. It doesn't put you at a disadvantage. It's just something extra.

You can get involved by paying every month. It's a business at the end of the day. Making money means they can keep the game running. Making a set amount of monthly income means they can measure success and plan for the future more effectively.

It's £9 a month. Pay it or deal with it.

Im not in the UK a sub here is $14.99 a month thats more then my sub for FFXIV not to mention the mounts and costumes etc are already a good deal for crowns but if you had a choice of using pregenerated stamps or using the dye station which would u rather use

Vaoh · July 2016

BlackSparrow wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

Just do what I'm gonna do. Buy or earn every costume you need! Subscribe for the first month that Update 11 releases. Dye every single costume on every one of your characters while you can, then be happy

That's pretty much the way to do it, yeah. In fact, I wonder if this is what they want everyone to do... then they hook you by letting you run around with the Crafting Bag for a month. XD

Doncellius wrote: »

ZOS is money hungry..... what else is there to say

I am so tired of seeing this around. Of course they want money... they need to pay for servers, for staff, for overhead, for all sorts of expenses you and I could never comprehend in an MMO market that could be considered fluctuating on a good day, all while still somehow letting a large portion of the player base have a full, balanced experience of the game for absolutely free.

When it comes to what they've chosen to make you pay for and sub for, ZOS is really reasonable compared to some of the free-to-play, pay-to-win MMOs I've tried over the years. That's probably about why I'm so blase about dye stamps, tbh.

Believe me, ZOS makes plenty of money. No need to worry about that! LOL. You'd have to be foolish though not to notice what's going on.

A new trend has started, and the crafting bag was the first part of it.

Definitely cool if you are a Sub, because it benefits you!

Crafting bags. This item is one that you don't technically need, but it will absolutely change the way you play the game and solve your organization problems. Goodbye pack mule characters! A perfect target for Sub-only benefits but is late on being purchaseable for Crowns.... Subs on the forums widely supported it, while the large majority of the playerbase in-game were angry that they were being screwed, and no purchase was possible for Crowns. Purchasing Crowns and buying DLC is the norm, and many felt Subbing would ruin the point of having bought those DLCs. ZOS was purposely silent on the Craft Bag and how it would become Sub-only to avoid having players skipping out on buying DLC, and are still purposely silent on how it will become purchaseable on the Crown Store eventually (keeping many of those new Subs).

Barbershop. Another long time requested feature, this has been scrapped in favor of the Crown Store equivalent: the Style Parlor. You need to buy a token now (for Crowns) for a single appearance change. Big deal? No, not really. Annoying that you cannot access any of the new appearance options available in the normal character creation screen, forcing you to buy (for Crowns) a token to utilize them if you wanted to? Yes. This isn't horrible though since things will begin to truly get worse from present onward.

Name Change and Race Change. More highly-requested features. It's unfortunate this was finally implemented only for the sake of making money. Tokens (for Crowns) are required to change your name and race. These are both different types of tokens.Three tokens are purchaseable now on the Crown Store and are each to do basic things. I mean, whatevs.... it's totally not like they conveniently rebalanced racial passives or anything right before this change.... and aren't giving one free race change to characters to compensate..... *sigh.
(Same can also be said for console gaining nameplates yet not getting one free name change too)

Costume Dyeing. A third highly-requested feature. It has become Sub-only, with randomized/bad combination packs of dyes being sold on the Crown Store and cycled out weekly for different colors. Those dye combinaion packs also have to be purchased one at a time (expensive to buy a lot), yet are consumed when used on one costume for a single character. It is a clear "Sub or don't bother" way to implement costume dyes.

What is next? Easy.

Player Housing is ZOS's next money-making target. I only hope that they won't ruin such an important TES feature by forcing everything to be bought on the Crown Store. Making cool skins for the inside of your house, or something like special lights or beds would be fine, but I get the feeling that far more will be ripped out. That's the trend afterall.... making money wherever possible.

It's unfortunate that the best way ZOS can make more money requires only common sense. Actually prioritize fixing the bugs, newfound animation issues from having investing a ton of resources into animation prioritization changes we never asked for or wanted, and horrible performance issues especially on consoles where it gets worse every patch.

ESO has tons of players, probably enough atm to be considered healthy, but many players are going simply because things never seem to actually be "getting better" with a lot of bugs and performance issues.

Overall, it's important to realize that most of what has already happened was SMART. They are playing the business game pretty well from the way they are using the Crown Store. Concerns lay with the rate at which requested features are being torn from ESO recently and the game itself behaving terribly in certain content (if on consoles, this is all content right now since DB -_-).

Oh well, these are my thoughts! Idk how you prompted me to write all that out

zardenurghanb14_ESO · July 2016

Doncellius wrote: »

BlackSparrow wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

Just do what I'm gonna do. Buy or earn every costume you need! Subscribe for the first month that Update 11 releases. Dye every single costume on every one of your characters while you can, then be happy

That's pretty much the way to do it, yeah. In fact, I wonder if this is what they want everyone to do... then they hook you by letting you run around with the Crafting Bag for a month. XD

Doncellius wrote: »

ZOS is money hungry..... what else is there to say

I am so tired of seeing this around. Of course they want money... they need to pay for servers, for staff, for overhead, for all sorts of expenses you and I could never comprehend in an MMO market that could be considered fluctuating on a good day, all while still somehow letting a large portion of the player base have a full, balanced experience of the game for absolutely free.

When it comes to what they've chosen to make you pay for and sub for, ZOS is really reasonable compared to some of the free-to-play, pay-to-win MMOs I've tried over the years. That's probably about why I'm so blase about dye stamps, tbh.

Believe me, ZOS makes plenty of money. No need to worry about that! LOL. You'd have to be foolish though not to notice what's going on.

A new trend has started, and the crafting bag was the first part of it.

Definitely cool if you are a Sub, because it benefits you!

Crafting bags. This item is one that you don't technically need, but it will absolutely change the way you play the game and solve your organization problems. Goodbye pack mule characters! A perfect target for Sub-only benefits but is late on being purchaseable for Crowns.... Subs on the forums widely supported it, while the large majority of the playerbase in-game were angry that they were being screwed, and no purchase was possible for Crowns. Purchasing Crowns and buying DLC is the norm, and many felt Subbing would ruin the point of having bought those DLCs. ZOS was purposely silent on the Craft Bag and how it would become Sub-only to avoid having players skipping out on buying DLC, and are still purposely silent on how it will become purchaseable on the Crown Store eventually (keeping many of those new Subs).

Barbershop. Another long time requested feature, this has been scrapped in favor of the Crown Store equivalent: the Style Parlor. You need to buy a token now (for Crowns) for a single appearance change. Big deal? No, not really. Annoying that you cannot access any of the new appearance options available in the normal character creation screen, forcing you to buy (for Crowns) a token to utilize them if you wanted to? Yes. This isn't horrible though since things will begin to truly get worse from present onward.

Name Change and Race Change. More highly-requested features. It's unfortunate this was finally implemented only for the sake of making money. Tokens (for Crowns) are required to change your name and race. These are both different types of tokens.Three tokens are purchaseable now on the Crown Store and are each to do basic things. I mean, whatevs.... it's totally not like they conveniently rebalanced racial passives or anything right before this change.... and aren't giving one free race change to characters to compensate..... *sigh.
(Same can also be said for console gaining nameplates yet not getting one free name change too)

Costume Dyeing. A third highly-requested feature. It has become Sub-only, with randomized/bad combination packs of dyes being sold on the Crown Store and cycled out weekly for different colors. Those dye combinaion packs also have to be purchased one at a time (expensive to buy a lot), yet are consumed when used on one costume for a single character. It is a clear "Sub or don't bother" way to implement costume dyes.

What is next? Easy.

Player Housing is ZOS's next money-making target. I only hope that they won't ruin such an important TES feature by forcing everything to be bought on the Crown Store. Making cool skins for the inside of your house, or something like special lights or beds would be fine, but I get the feeling that far more will be ripped out. That's the trend afterall.... making money wherever possible.

It's unfortunate that the best way ZOS can make more money requires only common sense. Actually prioritize fixing the bugs, newfound animation issues from having investing a ton of resources into animation prioritization changes we never asked for or wanted, and horrible performance issues especially on consoles where it gets worse every patch.

ESO has tons of players, probably enough atm to be considered healthy, but many players are going simply because things never seem to actually be "getting better" with a lot of bugs and performance issues.

Overall, it's important to realize that most of what has already happened was SMART. They are playing the business game pretty well from the way they are using the Crown Store. Concerns lay with the rate at which requested features are being torn from ESO recently and the game itself behaving terribly in certain content (if on consoles, this is all content right now since DB -_-).

Oh well, these are my thoughts! Idk how you prompted me to write all that out

Yeah Im not fond of the whole Sub for dying a costume or dont bother thing I mean we can already dye any armor we want why cant they do the same for costumes as for the craft bag I dont cate much for it when i can use a bank

Neirymn · July 2016

zardenurghanb14_ESO wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

BlackSparrow wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

Just do what I'm gonna do. Buy or earn every costume you need! Subscribe for the first month that Update 11 releases. Dye every single costume on every one of your characters while you can, then be happy

That's pretty much the way to do it, yeah. In fact, I wonder if this is what they want everyone to do... then they hook you by letting you run around with the Crafting Bag for a month. XD

Doncellius wrote: »

ZOS is money hungry..... what else is there to say

I am so tired of seeing this around. Of course they want money... they need to pay for servers, for staff, for overhead, for all sorts of expenses you and I could never comprehend in an MMO market that could be considered fluctuating on a good day, all while still somehow letting a large portion of the player base have a full, balanced experience of the game for absolutely free.

When it comes to what they've chosen to make you pay for and sub for, ZOS is really reasonable compared to some of the free-to-play, pay-to-win MMOs I've tried over the years. That's probably about why I'm so blase about dye stamps, tbh.

Believe me, ZOS makes plenty of money. No need to worry about that! LOL. You'd have to be foolish though not to notice what's going on.

A new trend has started, and the crafting bag was the first part of it.

Definitely cool if you are a Sub, because it benefits you!

Crafting bags. This item is one that you don't technically need, but it will absolutely change the way you play the game and solve your organization problems. Goodbye pack mule characters! A perfect target for Sub-only benefits but is late on being purchaseable for Crowns.... Subs on the forums widely supported it, while the large majority of the playerbase in-game were angry that they were being screwed, and no purchase was possible for Crowns. Purchasing Crowns and buying DLC is the norm, and many felt Subbing would ruin the point of having bought those DLCs. ZOS was purposely silent on the Craft Bag and how it would become Sub-only to avoid having players skipping out on buying DLC, and are still purposely silent on how it will become purchaseable on the Crown Store eventually (keeping many of those new Subs).

Barbershop. Another long time requested feature, this has been scrapped in favor of the Crown Store equivalent: the Style Parlor. You need to buy a token now (for Crowns) for a single appearance change. Big deal? No, not really. Annoying that you cannot access any of the new appearance options available in the normal character creation screen, forcing you to buy (for Crowns) a token to utilize them if you wanted to? Yes. This isn't horrible though since things will begin to truly get worse from present onward.

Name Change and Race Change. More highly-requested features. It's unfortunate this was finally implemented only for the sake of making money. Tokens (for Crowns) are required to change your name and race. These are both different types of tokens.Three tokens are purchaseable now on the Crown Store and are each to do basic things. I mean, whatevs.... it's totally not like they conveniently rebalanced racial passives or anything right before this change.... and aren't giving one free race change to characters to compensate..... *sigh.
(Same can also be said for console gaining nameplates yet not getting one free name change too)

Costume Dyeing. A third highly-requested feature. It has become Sub-only, with randomized/bad combination packs of dyes being sold on the Crown Store and cycled out weekly for different colors. Those dye combinaion packs also have to be purchased one at a time (expensive to buy a lot), yet are consumed when used on one costume for a single character. It is a clear "Sub or don't bother" way to implement costume dyes.

What is next? Easy.

Player Housing is ZOS's next money-making target. I only hope that they won't ruin such an important TES feature by forcing everything to be bought on the Crown Store. Making cool skins for the inside of your house, or something like special lights or beds would be fine, but I get the feeling that far more will be ripped out. That's the trend afterall.... making money wherever possible.

It's unfortunate that the best way ZOS can make more money requires only common sense. Actually prioritize fixing the bugs, newfound animation issues from having investing a ton of resources into animation prioritization changes we never asked for or wanted, and horrible performance issues especially on consoles where it gets worse every patch.

ESO has tons of players, probably enough atm to be considered healthy, but many players are going simply because things never seem to actually be "getting better" with a lot of bugs and performance issues.

Overall, it's important to realize that most of what has already happened was SMART. They are playing the business game pretty well from the way they are using the Crown Store. Concerns lay with the rate at which requested features are being torn from ESO recently and the game itself behaving terribly in certain content (if on consoles, this is all content right now since DB -_-).

Oh well, these are my thoughts! Idk how you prompted me to write all that out

Yeah Im not fond of the whole Sub for dying a costume or dont bother thing I mean we can already dye any armor we want why cant they do the same for costumes as for the craft bag I dont cate much for it when i can use a bank

Because costumes are Crown Store items and amors are not?

Danikat · July 2016

To me it just seems like they've run out of things to include in the sub to try and entice people to pay for it.

I understand that they need to try and keep it fair and I appreciate the effort, but I also think they need to accept that some of us are never going to subscribe but are quite happy to pay individually for things we want, if only they were offered.

I was all set to buy a dye stamp for every costume on every character I have until I read that they only apply a pre-set dye scheme. Now I won't be buying any.

If I happen to subscribe for a month at some point (which I might do if I'm ever trying to decide between DLC) I'll dye all my costumes then, effectively for free since I'd be buying the sub anyway. I'm unlikely to want to change them since I have a colour scheme for each character.

BlackSparrow · July 2016

Doncellius wrote: »

Believe me, ZOS makes plenty of money. No need to worry about that! LOL.

How do you know that? Are you their accountant? Do you have an inside source as to their finances?

Yes, we see a lot of money going in, but if there's one thing Game Dev Tycoon taught me, it's that MMOs hemorrhage money. (Okay, yes, I'm kidding. Don't take money management tips from a video game sim XD )

But the point is that there are costs to doing business that we, the player cannot see, and as the game gets bigger, those costs only rise. Coupled with the drop-off in population, that's less income to upkeep a game that is as big or bigger than it once was. So, they need to find new ways to make money. Thus, this:

Doncellius wrote: »

You'd have to be foolish though not to notice what's going on.

A new trend has started, and the crafting bag was the first part of it. *Insert recent subscriber perks*

I absolutely noticed it. Most people have.

Full disclosure: yes. I'm a subscriber. Have been since launch, because I want to support the game. I understand that not everyone can afford to subscribe, and not all those who can afford it want to, whether it's for ethical reason, subscription overload, or just sunk cost on the DLCs. I've FtPed other games, so I understand the frustration of seeing premium content locked behind a subscription wall.

But as you pointed out, this is clearly part of a drive to get people to subscribe. Ever think that there might be a reason they're pushing people toward the subscription angle? I'm not saying all their decisions on this matter have been smart, but that's clearly what they're doing. And as a business model, that is their choice. You can be unhappy with it, but I seriously doubt it's going to change at this point.

Doncellius wrote: »

It's unfortunate that the best way ZOS can make more money requires only common sense. Actually prioritize fixing the bugs, newfound animation issues from having investing a ton of resources into animation prioritization changes we never asked for or wanted, and horrible performance issues especially on consoles where it gets worse every patch.

I want them to fix bugs too. mwnci recently had a really insightful post about why this is easier said than done in software development.

Doncellius wrote: »

ESO has tons of players, probably enough atm to be considered healthy, but many players are going simply because things never seem to actually be "getting better" with a lot of bugs and performance issues.

How do you know that? Again, are you the accountant? Population is clearly less than it was at launch, which can be expected of any game. Further, just looking at the population doesn't tell you how many people bought the game and then never spent a sent and how many people continue to spend money supporting it. Only ZOS knows that ratio.

So the dev's best bet at keeping income coming in is the catch the long-term players. The two ways they've decided to do that is by 1) releasing small pieces of content every few months and 2) trying to catch subscribers and keep them subscribing.

Because they need to make money to keep the game running. That does not make them greedy or evil, and that's why I'm annoyed at the implication that they are, whether from you or from a number of other people around the forum. You don't have to agree with their business decisions... but realize that there's probably a reason they're doing it beyond being "money hungry."

WuffyCerulei · July 2016

I'm glad they're giving ESO+ plus members another perk. We have $15USD a month for a premium, so more perks the better

svartorn · July 2016

Ofmg people, just sub. It costs as much as 3 beers at a bar.

PURPLE245 · July 2016

zardenurghanb14_ESO wrote: »

PURPLE245 wrote: »

i dont see any issue there just giving people who support the game more reasons to support the game making games it not free so why make everything free imp eso has a much much better "membership" then any other games i have played even just the craft bags is enough for me your lucky the game it not a sub only game.....

it used to be a sub only game

xD just noticed i was supposed put not sub only anymore

thanks tho now changed it haha

notimetocare · July 2016

Cosmetic and convince stuff gets added to sub perks and people whine? Why... ain't like i get bonus loot, keys... Stuff with a major impact. Or shall they give ESO plus a damage boost perk?

Elsonso · July 2016

zardenurghanb14_ESO wrote: »

Looking through the update notes for update 11 I saw that being abel to freely dye a costume is a privlage for ESOPLUS members where as those of us with out it need to buy "dye stamps" that are pre selected? Just why? It honestly seems rather silly to do this when we can dye any armor any color already and is kind of pissing on the people who don't sub if they have rare dyes they wanna use on a costume. This would make sense if the same applied to armors but this is not the case. I'd gladly buy crowns to unlock a dye but buying crowns to get a costume and then buying more to get a "stamp" that i really have no coice in choosing colors for is and I'll say it again utterly stupid.

Feel free to disagree with me on this but honestly this is some EA level of stupidity.

I disagree. Coloring costumes is advanced customization. We have been living with costumes and disguises that cannot be changed for two years. Yeah, this feature could be free, and could be done at any dye station, but that is not how they have chosen to do it.

No one is required to color their costumes.

My main account is ESO Plus, but I do not subscribe to ESO Plus on PS4. (This is because they need to offer discounted 6 month subscriptions before I will even notice them) I am in both worlds and I am perfectly happy with how they are doing this. I think it is fine that they provided a way that benefits ESO Plus without locking out the rest of the people. I hope they can do that with Housing, too.

BlackSparrow wrote: »

Honestly, ESO has in-game, free dye stations. That's a lot better than a lot of MMOs. As someone who started before those were implemented, costume dye stamps are pure frosting.

The dye stations are a tremendous benefit in this game for customization. When they came out, I was pretty "meh" about them, but here we are, two years later, and every character I have uses them.

I am pretty sure that if ZOS had known that they were going B2P back in the late spring and summer of 2014, there would not be free dye stations in the game. Nothing like this will ever be placed in the game again. I would imagine that even suggesting this at ZOS today would be rewarded with a week long mandatory Crown Store reeducation class.

Knowing this, I like them more.

Acrolas · July 2016

The dye stamps are lame. Literally the only people guaranteed to enjoy them are the team who decided all the separate names of the same five colors in different combinations. Plum Orchard. Fall Forest Tints. Pines and Cocoa. Falkreath Fir Forest.

Thank you, but if I want a face full of douchemarketing, I'll go to Yankee Candle or Bath and Body Works.

Having played around with ESO+ dyes... honestly, the colors are only as good as your opinion of the base costume. If you don't like the base costume, you're going to have a hard time painting it pretty enough to justify the crowns you spent on it.

Sporvan · July 2016

This really is very counter intuitive by ZOS. I know their logic is that it would make more people want to subscribe in order to dye.

BUT, the flipside is really that you're making people who aren't subscribes less inclined to buy a costume if they can't dye them.

Eirikir · July 2016

I have no sub, but I think people who pay should get more. Its not a pay wall, its business. ZoE is a business, they aren't here to give out stuff for free.

zardenurghanb14_ESO · July 2016

Eirikir wrote: »

I have no sub, but I think people who pay should get more. Its not a pay wall, its business. ZoE is a business, they aren't here to give out stuff for free.

Kay then they should also make armor dying exclusive to eso+ members as well

Seract · July 2016

Mmm... well, Guild Wars 2 is free to play, and it's dye system has three complete rows already, free to choose. And its also relatively simpler to get new dyes when compared to ESO. ESO is also easy, just that gw2 is simpler.
I'd say someone is stingy

IMO; Zenimax should either not let non-eso+ dye costumes at all, or let non-subscribers freely dye their costumes through whatever way (either for free, or maybe one time pay to dye any way forever). The 1 crown per dye stamp isn't helping either. It may seem cheep, but over the long run, it'll exhaust player's 'crown wallet'. Adding onto that, we have no easy preview system until we actually "buy" the stamp from the crown store.

And finally, the dye system for ESO needs work either way. It's time consuming to have to apply a dye to an armor to find out how it looks like. If you don't like it, you'll have to erase it and put another dye on it.
Why not have a 'hover over and dye preview' mechanic for all wearable pieces?