Why are redguards recovery being nerfed? Was fine how it was!

khele23eb17_ESO · July 2016

Phinix1 wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Its the bitching on the forums combined with greed. They rolled back the Khajiit buff which was intended to push people to buy race change tokens. This happened due to the outcry on the forums. So to achieve the same result in token sales they decided to nerf the other good stam race a lot of people are playing. This way Khajiit will still become the hands down better choice for stam dps and many people will feel the need to switch races.

Khajiit hands down? Ha!

8% crit is useless in PVP. So you mean only PVE then?

And you mean only PvP then?

The reversal of a pittance 7% stam on Khajiit was not needed

Sure, giving the top dps race even more dps seems like a good idea. /s

when Redguard still gets 10% stam, 9% stam regen, AND the Adrenaline Rush regen with a slightly longer CD.

Slightly? It was almost doubled.

I am not a fan of race bonuses in general.

Neither am I. You should not be penalized or rewarded with stats for your cosmetic choices. Its like giving you a physical damage bonus for picking a male character over a female character or gender locking classes.

Ragnaroek93 · July 2016

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Its the bitching on the forums combined with greed. They rolled back the Khajiit buff which was intended to push people to buy race change tokens. This happened due to the outcry on the forums. So to achieve the same result in token sales they decided to nerf the other good stam race a lot of people are playing. This way Khajiit will still become the hands down better choice for stam dps and many people will feel the need to switch races.

Khajiit hands down? Ha!

8% crit is useless in PVP. So you mean only PVE then?

And you mean only PvP then?

The reversal of a pittance 7% stam on Khajiit was not needed

Sure, giving the top dps race even more dps seems like a good idea. /s

when Redguard still gets 10% stam, 9% stam regen, AND the Adrenaline Rush regen with a slightly longer CD.

Slightly? It was almost doubled.

I am not a fan of race bonuses in general.

Neither am I. You should not be penalized or rewarded with stats for your cosmetic choices. Its like giving you a physical damage bonus for picking a male character over a female character or gender locking classes.

You have more DMG (max stam) and more regen (Adrenaline Rush) than my woodelf, why exactly is the nerf unjustified in your opinion? The ONLY race that can compete with Redguards are Khajiits and ONLY in PvE dps.

And yes, I'm against racial passives too, I would like to see them removed from the game.

mb10 · July 2016

I never complain about ZoS but this is ridiculous!!
A very unnecessary nerf and I hope they do NOT go through with it!!

Just leave things how they were on the patch notes it was perfect ffs

ADarklore · July 2016

People saying they are nerfing Redguard when Eric said the 3/s was 'not intended'... the first point in the passive was 5/s and the next two were 3/s, which was not intended, they should have been 5/s like the first point. So technically they are "fixing" a mistake that they discovered while reviewing these passives... just like how they discovered that players on the forums were correct that giving Khajiit additional Stamina would have made them too OP in comparison to the other two Stamina races- Redguard and Bosmer.

He further added that Khajiit are the 'damage' Stamina race, Redguards are the regen Stamina race, while Bosmer is supposed to be in-between the two... which is why they increased Bosmer Stamina by 3%, to put them statistically where they should have been all along.

Aliyavana · July 2016

ADarklore wrote: »

People saying they are nerfing Redguard when Eric said the 3/s was 'not intended'... the first point in the passive was 5/s and the next two were 3/s, which was not intended, they should have been 5/s like the first point. So technically they are "fixing" a mistake that they discovered while reviewing these passives... just like how they discovered that players on the forums were correct that giving Khajiit additional Stamina would have made them too OP in comparison to the other two Stamina races- Redguard and Bosmer.

He further added that Khajiit are the 'damage' Stamina race, Redguards are the regen Stamina race, while Bosmer is supposed to be in-between the two... which is why they increased Bosmer Stamina by 3%, to put them statistically where they should have been all along.

Unintended? it took them 2 years to change something that was unintended since launch? How convenient that they are changing this so close to the launch of faction changes and as another stated in the thread, the khajiit buff was undone and to reap the benefits of those that would have switched to khajiit, redguards got the nerf bat instead in hopes of bringing in players to change their race to another race and to see ZOS money start rolling in.

As I stated before, I don't believe it is balance, sure khajiit got their buffs undone, but yet remain the top PVE dps race. They are using the guise of balance in order to manipulate people into falling into their plan of race changing and knowing history, they will surely gain lots of money from those people wanting to make the most out of their character.

Aliyavana · July 2016

ADarklore wrote: »

People saying they are nerfing Redguard when Eric said the 3/s was 'not intended'... the first point in the passive was 5/s and the next two were 3/s, which was not intended, they should have been 5/s like the first point. So technically they are "fixing" a mistake that they discovered while reviewing these passives... just like how they discovered that players on the forums were correct that giving Khajiit additional Stamina would have made them too OP in comparison to the other two Stamina races- Redguard and Bosmer.

He further added that Khajiit are the 'damage' Stamina race, Redguards are the regen Stamina race, while Bosmer is supposed to be in-between the two... which is why they increased Bosmer Stamina by 3%, to put them statistically where they should have been all along.

Ok so what you are saying is that the later passives of adrenaline rush are still 3 seconds?

ADarklore · July 2016

arcadiadark wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

People saying they are nerfing Redguard when Eric said the 3/s was 'not intended'... the first point in the passive was 5/s and the next two were 3/s, which was not intended, they should have been 5/s like the first point. So technically they are "fixing" a mistake that they discovered while reviewing these passives... just like how they discovered that players on the forums were correct that giving Khajiit additional Stamina would have made them too OP in comparison to the other two Stamina races- Redguard and Bosmer.

He further added that Khajiit are the 'damage' Stamina race, Redguards are the regen Stamina race, while Bosmer is supposed to be in-between the two... which is why they increased Bosmer Stamina by 3%, to put them statistically where they should have been all along.

Unintended? it took them 2 years to change something that was unintended since launch? How convenient that they are changing this so close to the launch of faction changes and as another stated in the thread, the khajiit buff was undone and to reap the benefits of those that would have switched to khajiit, redguards got the nerf bat instead in hopes of bringing in players to change their race to another race and to see ZOS money start rolling in.

As I stated before, I don't believe it is balance, sure khajiit got their buffs undone, but yet remain the top PVE dps race. They are using the guise of balance in order to manipulate people into falling into their plan of race changing and knowing history, they will surely gain lots of money from those people wanting to make the most out of their character.

Clearly, they never took an in-depth look at the passives before, not until forum outcry over Khajiit being made OP did they take the time to do some in-depth analysis. Otherwise, if this was some sort of 'conspiracy theory', then why was the first point 5/s and the other two 3/s?!? Clearly it was an oversight, which happens frequently in this game, this isn't the first time that mistakes have been found after people on the forum point them out.

ADarklore · July 2016

arcadiadark wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

People saying they are nerfing Redguard when Eric said the 3/s was 'not intended'... the first point in the passive was 5/s and the next two were 3/s, which was not intended, they should have been 5/s like the first point. So technically they are "fixing" a mistake that they discovered while reviewing these passives... just like how they discovered that players on the forums were correct that giving Khajiit additional Stamina would have made them too OP in comparison to the other two Stamina races- Redguard and Bosmer.

He further added that Khajiit are the 'damage' Stamina race, Redguards are the regen Stamina race, while Bosmer is supposed to be in-between the two... which is why they increased Bosmer Stamina by 3%, to put them statistically where they should have been all along.

Ok so what you are saying is that the later passives of adrenaline rush are still 3 seconds?

On Live they are 3/s... however, they should ALL BE 5/s... so they are correcting that as 3/s was not intended.

Aliyavana · July 2016

ADarklore wrote: »

arcadiadark wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

People saying they are nerfing Redguard when Eric said the 3/s was 'not intended'... the first point in the passive was 5/s and the next two were 3/s, which was not intended, they should have been 5/s like the first point. So technically they are "fixing" a mistake that they discovered while reviewing these passives... just like how they discovered that players on the forums were correct that giving Khajiit additional Stamina would have made them too OP in comparison to the other two Stamina races- Redguard and Bosmer.

He further added that Khajiit are the 'damage' Stamina race, Redguards are the regen Stamina race, while Bosmer is supposed to be in-between the two... which is why they increased Bosmer Stamina by 3%, to put them statistically where they should have been all along.

Unintended? it took them 2 years to change something that was unintended since launch? How convenient that they are changing this so close to the launch of faction changes and as another stated in the thread, the khajiit buff was undone and to reap the benefits of those that would have switched to khajiit, redguards got the nerf bat instead in hopes of bringing in players to change their race to another race and to see ZOS money start rolling in.

As I stated before, I don't believe it is balance, sure khajiit got their buffs undone, but yet remain the top PVE dps race. They are using the guise of balance in order to manipulate people into falling into their plan of race changing and knowing history, they will surely gain lots of money from those people wanting to make the most out of their character.

Clearly, they never took an in-depth look at the passives before, not until forum outcry over Khajiit being made OP did they take the time to do some in-depth analysis. Otherwise, if this was some sort of 'conspiracy theory', then why was the first point 5/s and the other two 3/s?!? Clearly it was an oversight, which happens frequently in this game, this isn't the first time that mistakes have been found after people on the forum point them out.

Simple, logicly speaking your character develops into a better swordsmen like redguards naturally are and so improve and are able to catch their breaths easier and outlast their enemies, so in the logical sense your character is advancing as you level up.

ADarklore · July 2016

arcadiadark wrote: »

Simple, logicly speaking your character develops into a better swordsmen like redguards naturally are and so improve and are able to catch their breaths easier and outlast their enemies, so in the logical sense your character is advancing as you level up.

So then why wasn't the final passive 2/s or 1/s? So first is 5/s, second is 3/s and third is 3/s... your logic therefore doesn't apply in this scenario since the final passive didn't increase.... which only lends more credence to it being a mistake.

Aliyavana · July 2016

ADarklore wrote: »

arcadiadark wrote: »

Simple, logicly speaking your character develops into a better swordsmen like redguards naturally are and so improve and are able to catch their breaths easier and outlast their enemies, so in the logical sense your character is advancing as you level up.

So then why wasn't the final passive 2/s or 1/s? So first is 5/s, second is 3/s and third is 3/s... your logic therefore doesn't apply in this scenario since the final passive didn't increase.... which only lends more credence to it being a mistake.

Simple, any lower would be overpowered but redguards still get higher stam back from those 3 seconds. If they want to nerf it fine, but it could be 5s to 4s to 3s but other than that it is fine how it was at its final form

ADarklore · July 2016

Their intent was to bring Khajiit, Redguard and Bosmer closer together... so therefore one isn't extremely superior to the others... and right now Khajiit is superior in PvE (hence they don't need any more Stamina to make them extremely superior), Reguard is extremely superior in PvP (reducing the Adrenaline Rush may bring them down a notch from being extremely superior), and Bosmer receiving 3% Max Stamina will bring them in-line with being considered the "in-between" race.

Rylana · July 2016

Bosmer has always been the strongest stam race, anyone who played redguard was just lacking, lolz.

idk · July 2016

Where is this information coming from. It is not in PTS patch notes and it is not this way on the PTS. My Redguard on PTS still has 3 seconds for Adrenal rush. I equipped one of the costumes only available on PTS ATM so it is clear the SS is from PTS.

Lightninvash · July 2016

so you are saying the go to race for stamina that was better than any other race for stamina classes got nerfed

Doesn't sound like anything needing to be balanced to me

TARAFRAKA · July 2016

It was announced on eso live last night.

Rohamad_Ali · July 2016

I'm sure every point eared elf is very happy . I wouldn't expect any less from them . You make enough stink and you get what you want balanced or not . Same old story different year .

Maybe one day this game will get balanced . If they can find a Dev to run things with out catering to the forums .

Ch4mpTW · July 2016

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

I'm sure every point eared elf is very happy . I wouldn't expect any less from them . You make enough stink and you get what you want balanced or not . Same old story different year .

Maybe one day this game will get balanced . If they can find a Dev to run things with out catering to the forums .

So true, bruh. So true. But hey, anything to boost the power of The Dominion. I dare anyone to say The Dominion isn't the best alliance now by a long shot. The most beautiful and best magicka and stamina classes, in the most beautiful and best alliance. Life is good in The Dominion, and will be even better. For the queen!

Rohamad_Ali · July 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

I'm sure every point eared elf is very happy . I wouldn't expect any less from them . You make enough stink and you get what you want balanced or not . Same old story different year .

Maybe one day this game will get balanced . If they can find a Dev to run things with out catering to the forums .

So true, bruh. So true. But hey, anything to boost the power of The Dominion. I dare anyone to say The Dominion isn't the best alliance now by a long shot. The most beautiful and best magicka and stamina classes, in the most beautiful and best alliance. Life is good in The Dominion, and will be even better. For the queen!

LOL

No doubt , for the queen !... Oye.

Little bushwacking bowtrolls will be worse then ever .

Callous2208 · July 2016

So redguard is still the go to stam dps pvp race and khajiit is the pve choice. The only difference is that the gap between all of the other trash races got smaller. Why is this a problem again?

IcyDeadPeople · July 2016

ADarklore wrote: »

People saying they are nerfing Redguard when Eric said the 3/s was 'not intended'... the first point in the passive was 5/s and the next two were 3/s, which was not intended, they should have been 5/s like the first point. So technically they are "fixing" a mistake that they discovered while reviewing these passives... just like how they discovered that players on the forums were correct that giving Khajiit additional Stamina would have made them too OP in comparison to the other two Stamina races- Redguard and Bosmer.

He further added that Khajiit are the 'damage' Stamina race, Redguards are the regen Stamina race, while Bosmer is supposed to be in-between the two... which is why they increased Bosmer Stamina by 3%, to put them statistically where they should have been all along.

They need to consider more the perspective of those players without access to "Any race any alliance" - if you roll AD or DC you have access to the top magicka and stamina races (Altmer, Breton, Redguard, Khajiit, Bosmer).

For EP players on the other hand...Dunmer is a solid choice for magicka and hybrid builds, but I'd love to see much stronger buffs for Nord and Argonian!

Lumenn · July 2016

Personally I would've kept kahjiit/redguards with their buffs, but given bosmer magicka regen instead of safe fall. Dark elves get max Stam/magicka added to base, let the bosmer have the regen. (not an equal 21% but maybe 9% or so) redguards keep PvP, cats keep pve, high elves and Breton keep their role as magicka best, and dark elves now share with bosmer for those that might want to change. Dark elves = more damage, bosmer = sustain. Just a random idea anyway

IcyDeadPeople · July 2016

Lumenn wrote: »

Personally I would've kept kahjiit/redguards with their buffs, but given bosmer magicka regen instead of safe fall. Dark elves get max Stam/magicka added to base, let the bosmer have the regen. (not an equal 21% but maybe 9% or so) redguards keep PvP, cats keep pve, high elves and Breton keep their role as magicka best, and dark elves now share with bosmer for those that might want to change. Dark elves = more damage, bosmer = sustain. Just a random idea anyway

Why would anyone desire for one race to be the best option for most PVP stam or magicka builds (like Redguard and Altmer)? These two either need to be knocked down a notch or other races need some buffs.

It would be boring for every race to be equal, but look at the current diverse racial passives and buff those a bit more, for example, Nord damage resistance or Orc melee dmg.

Make it so that you really have to think carefully and weigh all the options when choosing a race for your magicka sorcerer or stam dk etc. This aspect of the game is more fun when the choices are hard because there is not any specific race that is the default for most magicka or stam builds.

khele23eb17_ESO · July 2016

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Its the bitching on the forums combined with greed. They rolled back the Khajiit buff which was intended to push people to buy race change tokens. This happened due to the outcry on the forums. So to achieve the same result in token sales they decided to nerf the other good stam race a lot of people are playing. This way Khajiit will still become the hands down better choice for stam dps and many people will feel the need to switch races.

Khajiit hands down? Ha!

8% crit is useless in PVP. So you mean only PVE then?

And you mean only PvP then?

The reversal of a pittance 7% stam on Khajiit was not needed

Sure, giving the top dps race even more dps seems like a good idea. /s

when Redguard still gets 10% stam, 9% stam regen, AND the Adrenaline Rush regen with a slightly longer CD.

Slightly? It was almost doubled.

I am not a fan of race bonuses in general.

Neither am I. You should not be penalized or rewarded with stats for your cosmetic choices. Its like giving you a physical damage bonus for picking a male character over a female character or gender locking classes.

You have more DMG (max stam) and more regen (Adrenaline Rush) than my woodelf, why exactly is the nerf unjustified in your opinion? The ONLY race that can compete with Redguards are Khajiits and ONLY in PvE dps.

And yes, I'm against racial passives too, I would like to see them removed from the game.

Khajiits dont compete with RGs at pve dps, they are simply better at it. And thats without the +6% stam the devs wanted to give them. As for bosmer, Ive been saying they need a buff for ages now so dont throw that argument in my face here.

Maztiax · July 2016

Yeah this sounds like Zenimax's way of compensating for not buffing the strongest DPS race.

If you want people to stop unanimously picking Redguard for PvP, then buff the weaker races. Make the Red Diamond passive do some damage on hit chance. Make Nords not inferior to every other race in every way possible. Make Swift Warrior apply to more attacks, such as dots and abilities like flame lash. And for gods sake, stop nerfing health regeneration. If you're going to nerf the least desired stat in the game then you might as well completely remove it. Health recovery needs to be boosted across all races or nobody will see any value in it.

Acrolas · July 2016

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

I bet youd appreciate getting your paycheck every 9 weeks instead of 4

If you're waiting a month for one paycheck, you desperately need another revenue source.
A dozen sources is ideal. Let's count them off.

One max stamina passive.
One stamina recovery passive.
One stamina restoration passive.
Seven armor slots for max stamina glyphs.
Three jewelry slots for stamina recovery glyphs.
One to four weapons slots for absorb stamina glyphs.
One Wind Walker medium armor recovery passive.
One CP Warlord reduction passive.
One CP Mooncalf recovery passive.
One CP Tenacity restoration passive.
A few CP passives for situational stamina use like sprint and block.
And possibly a class tree passive.

Your analogy is fallacious because the Redguard doesn't have one paycheck, does not need to wait for Adrenaline Rush, and the skill is still only a minor factor in max/min builds relative to every other resource available.

But I guess logic isn't as attractive as screaming TEW SEGGUND NARF!

clocksstoppe · July 2016

They were nerfed because you all cried for it on pts forum. You can see how their first racials batch was not intended to upset anyone as it only had buffs to weak races. You geniuses complained that khajiit will be broken because of getting more stamina and you got your nerf. The thing is, devs put that stamina on them to push them to redguard level. Now that you cried for khajiit nerf they have an excuse to also nerf redguard.

tl;dr: next time shut the *** up and don't complain when you get free stuff

khele23eb17_ESO · July 2016

Acrolas wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

I bet youd appreciate getting your paycheck every 9 weeks instead of 4

If you're waiting a month for one paycheck, you desperately need another revenue source.

Standard payment model where I live.

A dozen sources is ideal. Let's count them off.

One max stamina passive.
One stamina recovery passive.
One stamina restoration passive.
Seven armor slots for max stamina glyphs.
Three jewelry slots for stamina recovery glyphs.
One to four weapons slots for absorb stamina glyphs.
One Wind Walker medium armor recovery passive.
One CP Warlord reduction passive.
One CP Mooncalf recovery passive.
One CP Tenacity restoration passive.
A few CP passives for situational stamina use like sprint and block.
And possibly a class tree passive.

Your analogy is fallacious because the Redguard doesn't have one paycheck, does not need to wait for Adrenaline Rush, and the skill is still only a minor factor in max/min builds relative to every other resource available.

Youre not wrong - there are many other sources of stamina recovery. Just like there are many sources of increasing weapon damage or max magicka. Still you wouldnt want to give up on any of them it at all possible. Also it does not invalidate the absurdity of your previous comment:

If your stamina recovery is high enough (which it should be by the time you unlock the full passive), you'll appreciate the bonus stamina being spaced out more so you receive it when your overall stamina is actually getting lower.

How do you appreciate having less of something that you need / want? Id agree with the statement if the change made you receive bigger ticks of stamina regen but less often. Then what you wrote would make sense. But no... its a straight up reduction of regen. So... a bad thing.

FrostFallFox · July 2016

What exactly did they change about Khajiits?

Acrolas · July 2016

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Standard payment model where I live.

Ah. The dole. Gotcha.

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

How do you appreciate having less of something that you need / want?

Academically, the same way you appreciate going from a Tolerated Fail (D) to a Pass (C), or a Pass (C) to a Merit (B). As opposed to going from a Merit (B) to a Distinction (A), or a Distinction to a higher Distinction.
You notice the a tick at 70% stamina a little more, even though it probably isn't going to help you win a battle any more than a tick at 95% stamina, though.
The kicker about Adrenaline Rush is you're probably never going to actually notice it without a scrolling readout. Like the Breton's Magicka Mastery, there are just better resources out there. Redguard is a great stamina race, but it's more for the max stamina and the recovery passives. Adrenaline is just a small extra boost on top of already solid passives.