The need for a 3rd difficulty level.

Vangy · July 2016

Hey friends,

So ive been playing ESO for a while now. Have 6 toons all maxed in 160 gear with gold enchants and all that awesome jing bang. What ive noticed so far is that the gap in difficulty from solo questing>group questing>normal pledges to certain vet pledges>trials is staggering. The average player is so used to ignoring bad red circles that do almost no damage in questing/pledges to suddenly being almost one shot by ranged attacks from archers that can 1 shot you + bad red in vMA that can kill you in two ticks......

And ofcourse this will lead to a flood of QQ on forums as to how hard content is which I find reasonable. Like shouldnt there be a gradual difficulty increase? So players get better naturally? Questing difficulty needs tuned up a little as we level up. Bad red should hurt us quite a bit more as we get closer and closer to level 50. Adds need to be able to take off 50-70% of our health total on unblocked heavies or attacks that are clearly telegraphed as we approach the level 50 mark.

Normal pledges need to be harder. Certain vet ones need to be scaled down. Normal mode trials need to be slightly harder. AKA the gap between difficulty needs to be smoother. OR;

Make a 3rd intermediate difficulty setting. Vet ones can stay the same with the best loot tables etc. Normal can stay the same with the worst loot tables. And introduce a 3rd setting. This setting can be inbetween normal and veteran. This would make so many things more accessible and facilitate getting better at the game...

Ive experienced so many friends/guildies just blatantly give up doing vWGT or vICP (like they dont even try after having a really bad experience in them) not to mention vMA. They can do normal just fine, so why not add a 3rd difficulty intermediate so they can try to achieve the clear for that. This would definitely boost their confidence and skill level so they are more adequately prepared for the brutal beating of things like vMA. I can't imagine this would take too much work from the coding side; all that prolly needs to be done is to tweak the mob health totals and damage output and walla, the game can be so much more accessible to millions of players who are not the 0.00001% elite.

And before the trolls come and say git gud, I assure you im alr good. I just want to be able to keep my friends who are not so good at the game interested with it. Many have left cos they feel that they have hit a stone wall with things like vWGT, vICP and vMSA. When you are locked out of content, game becomes stale. And no, normal mode dosent cut it. Its so troll-bad ez mode that even a brain dead chimp spamming DS can clear it.....

+ with a 3rd difficulty setting we dont need to nerf content to the point of ez mode for players who are already good at the game. Like I feel vWGT is ez mode steam roll now but there is a good portion of players out there who still find it unbearable difficult. Not to mention the gap between vMA and nMA. Like wow..... You are going to get steam rolled by vMA after finishing nMA which is a joke...

Thoughts?

Smileybones · July 2016

There is no QQ flood about how hard the game is. There are many topics about how easy the game is tho.

Vangy · July 2016

Smileybones wrote: »

There is no QQ flood about how hard the game is. There are many topics about how easy the game is tho.

Yeah there was when vMA was out. For a good 1-2 months. Its just now, 90% of the player base dosent even try it anymore. There's still a good deal of complaining about vWGT and vICP which resulted in the nerfs. Im sure the new DLC is going to have quite a bit of complaints too. As long as random pug groups arent able to complete the vet versions of any content, there is going to be a great deal of discontent. Which eventually is going to nerf any hard content in the game to boring levels. Which is why I think a 3rd intermediate setting that still counts towards pledges etc is prolly a good idea.

Whatzituyah · July 2016

Please no Extremes! I have horrifying memories from another MMO with Extreme versions of arena bosses. *crawls into a corner*

Vangy · July 2016

Whatzituyah wrote: »

Please no Extremes! I have horrifying memories from another MMO with Extreme versions of arena bosses.

o.O

Im asking for a 3rd "intermediate" setting. One where difficulty is between normal and vet so that people have a stepping stone to learn. Right now its super-pointless-ez-mode-0-reward (normal) vs Cry-mash-face-cry-cry-suffer-hard (vet) for certain content. I want something in between so I can play with some of my less experienced friends without falling asleep at my keyboard...

Whatzituyah · July 2016

Vangy wrote: »

Whatzituyah wrote: »

Please no Extremes! I have horrifying memories from another MMO with Extreme versions of arena bosses.

o.O

Im asking for a 3rd "intermediate" setting. One where difficulty is between normal and vet so that people have a stepping stone to learn. Right now its super-pointless-ez-mode-0-reward (normal) vs Cry-mash-face-cry-cry-suffer-hard (vet) for certain content. I want something in between so I can play with some of my less experienced friends without falling asleep at my keyboard...

Ok so like that system normal, hard, and extreme. But veteran is nowhere near extreme in that game.

Vangy · July 2016

Whatzituyah wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Whatzituyah wrote: »

Please no Extremes! I have horrifying memories from another MMO with Extreme versions of arena bosses.

o.O

Im asking for a 3rd "intermediate" setting. One where difficulty is between normal and vet so that people have a stepping stone to learn. Right now its super-pointless-ez-mode-0-reward (normal) vs Cry-mash-face-cry-cry-suffer-hard (vet) for certain content. I want something in between so I can play with some of my less experienced friends without falling asleep at my keyboard...

Ok so like that system normal, hard, and extreme. But veteran is nowhere near extreme in that game.

Yep. In your scenario, what I want is current normal (as ez mode) -> Intermediate mode (harder than normal but less hard than current vet) --> vet ( current veteran mode).

Humatiel · July 2016

I am all for three levels of difficulty if you can agree that Normal grants zero loot and Intermediate grants only vr14 level gear. I agree that there should be some degree of scaling for learning but not that the same scaling should allow any type of reward.

Vangy · July 2016

Humatiel wrote: »

I am all for three levels of difficulty if you can agree that Normal grants zero loot and Intermediate grants only vr14 level gear. I agree that there should be some degree of scaling for learning but not that the same scaling should allow any type of reward.

This is the kind of thinking that ruins the game. The only thing that shouldnt drop from intermediate are vMA weapons or master weapons. What is the point of content that grants no incentives for doing it? Entitlement is one thing. But being a total *** about it is a whole different beast entirely. Normal is ez-mode faceroll enuf to justify no loot. Intermediate can require some effort for justifiable end game gear rewards short of master/ vMA weapons.

AtmaDarkwolf · July 2016

they don't need a 3rd diff setting. Instead dungeons like ICP and WGT should NOT be on the undaunted list, but instead, once per day, give a 2 key reward(or 1 key if the 'silver' pledge we have now is done)

Things like MA should stay as they are, maybe slightly tone down the hard mode so at least 25% of players (those who are at that 'level') can manage it (Any more and it just isn't much of an accomplishment)

Thing is, if u add another diff, trust you me, we would get MORE of these posts. It don't matter HOW many 'levels' of difficulty there are, people ALWAYS feel entitled to the hardest. In this day and age the idea of 'working' for something is faded compared to 20 years ago, and the idea also that somethings are just not within reach, is also gone.

Basically, if its 'in game' and I 'paid for it' I should 'have it'

so no. No third diff.

LegacyDM · July 2016

Make a fourth. Call it nightmare. Vet too easy.

Vangy · July 2016

AtmaDarkwolf wrote: »

they don't need a 3rd diff setting. Instead dungeons like ICP and WGT should NOT be on the undaunted list, but instead, once per day, give a 2 key reward(or 1 key if the 'silver' pledge we have now is done)

Things like MA should stay as they are, maybe slightly tone down the hard mode so at least 25% of players (those who are at that 'level') can manage it (Any more and it just isn't much of an accomplishment)

Thing is, if u add another diff, trust you me, we would get MORE of these posts. It don't matter HOW many 'levels' of difficulty there are, people ALWAYS feel entitled to the hardest. In this day and age the idea of 'working' for something is faded compared to 20 years ago, and the idea also that somethings are just not within reach, is also gone.

Basically, if its 'in game' and I 'paid for it' I should 'have it'

so no. No third diff.

Toning down vMA would upset a lot of the people who can complete it with the reason being "now its too easy". Removing ICP and WGT from pledge rotation is just a band aid solution. The real problem is, ESO only has 2 difficulty modes. Normal being face-roll easy with little to 0 rewards, and vet granting end game gear with difficulty sometimes being way too much for the average player to handle.

I doubt people would complain if they can achieve every single required item via intermediate difficulty setting save master weapons and vMA weapons. I mean just those items are game changing enough to satisfy the elite. Like right now, the only time I would do vICP and vWGT are with guildies who know what they are doing. Doing it with other people who are new is not worth my time cos its just going to be a wipefest and normal isnt an option cos normal ends up being a snore-fest with pointless rewards. Hell it dosent even count towards pledge completion for a single gold key.

The problem isnt the loot. The problem isnt the difficulty of vet. The problem is the leap of difficulty from normal to vet. Normal is easy enuf for my 10 year old to do, with vet in certain instances being locked out to maybe 80% of the player base. I just dont think that's healthy game design. You want to allow almost anyone who puts in enough effort to clear content while dangling a carrot for the leetest of the elite in the form of vMA/ master weapons which are more than enuf to entice hardcore players to do content such as vMA.

The added benfit of this is that vet version dosent need to be continually nerfed cos people can still get most of the gear they require from intermediate. Vet version can have better loot drop rates to entice those competent enough to clear it. Ofcourse vMA and master weapons would only drop from vet but why not other gear?

UltimaJoe777 · July 2016

I don't think it'd hurt to have a 3rd difficulty level for those that just DPS their way through everything and thus are starved for a challenge. However, I feel it needs to be fair to those unable to do it as well as those able to. I propose the following for it:

Not to sound stereotypical or anything, but let's call it Elite Difficulty.

Unlike Veteran Difficulty it will not just be scaled up and make you work harder. It will actually have mechanics that REQUIRE you have a Healer and a Tank around, or a few depending on the size of the run. For example, the very air in there could cause constant damage over time that requires a Healer or Healers be there to keep everyone alive, and have the bosses prioritize Healers over DPSers so that DPSers are endangered if no Tank is around to keep the bosses off the Healers who in turn keep the DPSers alive, of course as well as the Tank or Tanks. How will they prioritize Healers? Well let's just say their aggro is triggered the moment they see someone healing others... And they will go after the first one to heal anyone and then the next until they all drop dead because no Tank or Tanks are/were around.

Now many may do this for the sake of amusement but historically throughout the lifespan of this game people have constantly complained that content is not worth doing if the rewards are not worth it. I propose that for rewards for completing these insane dungeons that people not get new gear. Instead, they get Consumables that grant them temporary boosts of a variety of sorts to reward their effort. For instance, their entire group gets free revivals for an hour with one active, and another could grant their group Critical Hit immunity for an hour. Just some fair and non-overpowered examples lol

Humatiel · July 2016

Vangy wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

I am all for three levels of difficulty if you can agree that Normal grants zero loot and Intermediate grants only vr14 level gear. I agree that there should be some degree of scaling for learning but not that the same scaling should allow any type of reward.

This is the kind of thinking that ruins the game. The only thing that shouldnt drop from intermediate are vMA weapons or master weapons. What is the point of content that grants no incentives for doing it? Entitlement is one thing. But being a total *** about it is a whole different beast entirely. Normal is ez-mode faceroll enuf to justify no loot. Intermediate can require some effort for justifiable end game gear rewards short of master/ vMA weapons.

You view it as justifiable, while I agreed to three tiers purely for the point of letting people experience the content. In my opinion they are not remotely justified in receiving the same drops for easier content.

Edit: Perhaps a compromise, allow the intermediate level to drop blue level jewelry and gear in vr15. Allow the "elite" level to drop gold jewelry and provide an additional incentive of say being able to sell what would normally be BOP items?

idk · July 2016

There are 4 levels of difficulty as it is.

Solo quests
Vet dungeons
Normal trials
Vet trials.

How many more levels do we need?