How do sorcs sustain magika with max damage builds?

Blevil · July 2016

Just wondering, I find myself running out of magika in longer fights. what is considered good magika recovery? The Julianos/willpower setup doesn't have the sustain.

Minalan · July 2016

Head over to a sustain and max Magicka build instead.

Ten points of Magicka is worth roughly one spell damage, so 1000 is worth roughly 100 spell damage.

Running a 5 seducer/3 Magnus gives you sustain with cost reduction, max Magicka, and recovery.

For max Magicka:
Get the undaunted passives, 5/1/1 light/medium/heavy All Points into Magicka
All arcane willpower jewelry
Alter or Breton race
501 CP (extra Magicka for blue)
Slot two Mage guild abilities (entropy, ice comet, Mage light)
Infused large armor pieces, all gold enchants
You should be at 41-42K max Magicka. Thats where your spell damage comes from.

You hit for 1-2K less on frags, but you can cast so many more of them. You should be around 2800-3000 spell damage, but that's more than enough.

If you don't want to switch suits, remove some spell damage enchants on your willpower jewelry and replace them with cost reduction.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · July 2016

If you are having trouble sustaining in group content on the PVE side of things, tell your healer to run Elemental Drain. It can be put on multiple mobs and the boss at the same time. You sould not have sustain issues if ele drain is on your target on a magic sorc. If your healer doesnt want to run ele drain, then he is a terrible healer and you should find another one.

In PVE, I do nothing to boost my regen other than Champion points. Any set piece or glyph that gives magic regen is by definition a DPS loss. In PVP, i usually find that one regen glyph is more than enough to meet my needs if I run a regen mundus stone. Typically, I dont even bother with the regen glyph.

Bfish22090 · July 2016

dark deal, ele drain, pots, synergies from undaunted passives, orbs, heavy attacks, overload

DHale · July 2016

Honestly they don't, some of the very best players on na and PC are shadows of their former selves. Ppl I could not kill at all I mean... ever now I can kill rather easily. Makes me sad and is why I tried it for a couple of days.... Not going to bother.

Autolycus · July 2016

Magicka sorcs in an all-out dps setup are not in a good place for sustain right now. For trials, Ele Drain is an absolute must-have. Use of Worm Cult can help, and Siphon Spirit (resto) is almost as powerful as Ele Drain. Otherwise, you will have to resort to reduced cost, higher recovery, and even using something like Dark Exchange (as much as nobody wants to) to sustain.

It would be nice if magicka sorcs weren't already cranking out 10-15k less than all stamina builds (and lacking behind some magicka builds too), but to have resource troubles on top of it...?

Unstable.Pixel · July 2016

5x Julianos, 3x Transmutation (1x Neck/2x Body), 3x Willpower (Dmg Glyphs on Rings + Staff) seems to work for me. I use Empowered Ward (for +10% regen for 10s) and Dampen Magic (makes up for 30% increase lost from not running Hardened). Gets me just above 2k regen which is manageable. With Surge running and the staff proc you'll get 3400+ spell dmg and it made things feel a bit burstier for me than running Seducer.

Minalan · July 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

It would be nice if magicka sorcs weren't already cranking out 10-15k less than all stamina builds (and lacking behind some magicka builds too), but to have resource troubles on top of it...?

Pretty much this. A spell damage build can take on maybe one person if they don't dodge roll too many times. Wrobel really jacked up the class this patch.

Thrasher91604 · July 2016

So you have to wear them out and wait for moments of opportunity. In the meantime, spamming shields, health and majicka restore, and anti-stun potions, while somehow also damaging them. Seems nearly impossible at times.

I wish stamina poisons increased the cost of roll dodges as well as abilities. That would help a lot.

bigereard · July 2016

My shield tank sorc:
Very good summon and shield, moderate sustain, perma horn, light armor:
uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=426

My shield tank sorc:
Moderate summon and shield, very good sustain (through spell symmetry), perma horn, heavy armor:
uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=454

PS: Spell Symmetry Health to Magicka conversion with Mage Guild Passive is 1:0.58 so 5600 health regen equivalent to 3250 magicka regen. Plus 925 magicka regen + 415 magicka regen from constitution.
Can reach 50k magicka if we swap the mundus to mage.

Van_0S · July 2016

Use restoration staff because of the passive.
Full Heavy attack restores x% magicka

DRXHarbinger · July 2016

Just burn your magika down, make sure your.ele drain is up and overload back to full magika. Even better if healer has force siphon on too.

Stop slapping ward needlessly (99% of casts are a waste with sorcs) and you won't run out. Keep your surge up and in group content you won't need ward most of the time.

Mush55 · July 2016

Over load..........

Johngo0036 · July 2016

Energy overload,

I use it to manage my magicka,
when i run low on magicka,
Pop energy overload,
Light attack till magicka full and and then toggle it off and continue.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · July 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

Magicka sorcs in an all-out dps setup are not in a good place for sustain right now. For trials, Ele Drain is an absolute must-have. Use of Worm Cult can help, and Siphon Spirit (resto) is almost as powerful as Ele Drain. Otherwise, you will have to resort to reduced cost, higher recovery, and even using something like Dark Exchange (as much as nobody wants to) to sustain.

It would be nice if magicka sorcs weren't already cranking out 10-15k less than all stamina builds (and lacking behind some magicka builds too), but to have resource troubles on top of it...?

Sorcs arent 15K behind stam builds, and if ele drain is up, they dont have sustain issues. Good sorcs pull close to 40k and a handful of people pull closer to 45k on a stam build. Its also a tougher rotation and you have to be in melee range with no group utility. They should pull more.

Sorcs are NOT in a bad spot for PVE DPS at the moment, despite popular belief, if just looking at the numbers. Certainly, there build is pretty narrow, but all glass cannon builds are inflexible and need help sustaining. My magic DK sucks without ele drain. My Stam DK sucks without repentance. If you are building for endgame, you are going to need help with resources. That is why Templar healers are preferred in a raid. Not because they heal better, but because they are better at giving back resources to their group.

Senaxu · July 2016

stamina is broken atm. On my MagikaSorc I can pull 39-40k on mantikora with good rotation but its not possible for me to sustain kena on range. I play with Neriens' Eth. Best Stamina DPS i saw was 52k from Caeris and 51k from Alcast.

Autolycus · July 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Magicka sorcs in an all-out dps setup are not in a good place for sustain right now. For trials, Ele Drain is an absolute must-have. Use of Worm Cult can help, and Siphon Spirit (resto) is almost as powerful as Ele Drain. Otherwise, you will have to resort to reduced cost, higher recovery, and even using something like Dark Exchange (as much as nobody wants to) to sustain.

It would be nice if magicka sorcs weren't already cranking out 10-15k less than all stamina builds (and lacking behind some magicka builds too), but to have resource troubles on top of it...?

Sorcs arent 15K behind stam builds, and if ele drain is up, they dont have sustain issues. Good sorcs pull close to 40k and a handful of people pull closer to 45k on a stam build. Its also a tougher rotation and you have to be in melee range with no group utility. They should pull more.

Sorcs are NOT in a bad spot for PVE DPS at the moment, despite popular belief, if just looking at the numbers. Certainly, there build is pretty narrow, but all glass cannon builds are inflexible and need help sustaining. My magic DK sucks without ele drain. My Stam DK sucks without repentance. If you are building for endgame, you are going to need help with resources. That is why Templar healers are preferred in a raid. Not because they heal better, but because they are better at giving back resources to their group.

I stand by my initial conviction that, relative to other builds, sorcs are not in a good place for sustain in an all-out dps setup. Sure, I and many others can attest to the fact that mag sorcs can pull ~40k in a trials setting. Given the same circumstances, including buffs, group cohesion, properly timing mechanics, etc., I see other dps (who have zero issues with sustain) pulling upwards of 50k. Note that I stated Ele Drain and Siphon Spirit as a must in order to sustain; removing these from the equation puts mag sorcs in a tough spot. The same can be said for various other skills, such as repentance and shards, but removing these from the equation has a noticeably less severe impact on those that typically rely on them.

I currently know of a few different builds that can crank out 45k with only self buffs. Is 40k bad? No, of course not. But if you play multiple builds/toons it becomes evident that the resource management and damage output potential on a sorc hinges far more on others in their group than other classes and builds do. I take no personal issue with dps relying on their group for sustain, but mag sorcs rely on their group to a greater degree. There are a number of scenarios in which we must switch targets as dps, and doing so requires healers to continually apply Ele Drain and Siphon Spirit on trash mobs, i.e. bannermen in vSO. Ideally, mag sorcs would not be constrained in such a manner. I am unsure of another class/build that can be completely OOM after killing a couple of adds, and perhaps still not have enough ult built up to Overload until magicka is restored to a reasonable level.

As for healers giving resources to the group, this may be of benefit: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3156857/#Comment_3156857

Ultimately, my point was regarding balance. It seems perfectly reasonable to me that the cost of some sorc skills could be readjusted to accommodate this disparity, or even buffed a little to make the resource management mini-game more worthwhile, and put mag sorc parses closer to those of other builds.

ryanborror · July 2016

You can use drain for long fights, I usually slot dark conversion on my overload bar in most pugs. Use it after trash pulls. Overload its self restores magic as does killing with destro staff. It also too me a while to learn when to properly use a potion,

Deathgiggle · July 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Magicka sorcs in an all-out dps setup are not in a good place for sustain right now. For trials, Ele Drain is an absolute must-have. Use of Worm Cult can help, and Siphon Spirit (resto) is almost as powerful as Ele Drain. Otherwise, you will have to resort to reduced cost, higher recovery, and even using something like Dark Exchange (as much as nobody wants to) to sustain.

It would be nice if magicka sorcs weren't already cranking out 10-15k less than all stamina builds (and lacking behind some magicka builds too), but to have resource troubles on top of it...?

Sorcs arent 15K behind stam builds, and if ele drain is up, they dont have sustain issues. Good sorcs pull close to 40k and a handful of people pull closer to 45k on a stam build. Its also a tougher rotation and you have to be in melee range with no group utility. They should pull more.

Sorcs are NOT in a bad spot for PVE DPS at the moment, despite popular belief, if just looking at the numbers. Certainly, there build is pretty narrow, but all glass cannon builds are inflexible and need help sustaining. My magic DK sucks without ele drain. My Stam DK sucks without repentance. If you are building for endgame, you are going to need help with resources. That is why Templar healers are preferred in a raid. Not because they heal better, but because they are better at giving back resources to their group.

I stand by my initial conviction that, relative to other builds, sorcs are not in a good place for sustain in an all-out dps setup. Sure, I and many others can attest to the fact that mag sorcs can pull ~40k in a trials setting. Given the same circumstances, including buffs, group cohesion, properly timing mechanics, etc., I see other dps (who have zero issues with sustain) pulling upwards of 50k. Note that I stated Ele Drain and Siphon Spirit as a must in order to sustain; removing these from the equation puts mag sorcs in a tough spot. The same can be said for various other skills, such as repentance and shards, but removing these from the equation has a noticeably less severe impact on those that typically rely on them.

I currently know of a few different builds that can crank out 45k with only self buffs. Is 40k bad? No, of course not. But if you play multiple builds/toons it becomes evident that the resource management and damage output potential on a sorc hinges far more on others in their group than other classes and builds do. I take no personal issue with dps relying on their group for sustain, but mag sorcs rely on their group to a greater degree. There are a number of scenarios in which we must switch targets as dps, and doing so requires healers to continually apply Ele Drain and Siphon Spirit on trash mobs, i.e. bannermen in vSO. Ideally, mag sorcs would not be constrained in such a manner. I am unsure of another class/build that can be completely OOM after killing a couple of adds, and perhaps still not have enough ult built up to Overload until magicka is restored to a reasonable level.

As for healers giving resources to the group, this may be of benefit: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3156857/#Comment_3156857

Ultimately, my point was regarding balance. It seems perfectly reasonable to me that the cost of some sorc skills could be readjusted to accommodate this disparity, or even buffed a little to make the resource management mini-game more worthwhile, and put mag sorc parses closer to those of other builds.

Which high dps class has it the easiest in PvE?

Autolycus · July 2016

Deathgiggle wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Magicka sorcs in an all-out dps setup are not in a good place for sustain right now. For trials, Ele Drain is an absolute must-have. Use of Worm Cult can help, and Siphon Spirit (resto) is almost as powerful as Ele Drain. Otherwise, you will have to resort to reduced cost, higher recovery, and even using something like Dark Exchange (as much as nobody wants to) to sustain.

It would be nice if magicka sorcs weren't already cranking out 10-15k less than all stamina builds (and lacking behind some magicka builds too), but to have resource troubles on top of it...?

Sorcs arent 15K behind stam builds, and if ele drain is up, they dont have sustain issues. Good sorcs pull close to 40k and a handful of people pull closer to 45k on a stam build. Its also a tougher rotation and you have to be in melee range with no group utility. They should pull more.

Sorcs are NOT in a bad spot for PVE DPS at the moment, despite popular belief, if just looking at the numbers. Certainly, there build is pretty narrow, but all glass cannon builds are inflexible and need help sustaining. My magic DK sucks without ele drain. My Stam DK sucks without repentance. If you are building for endgame, you are going to need help with resources. That is why Templar healers are preferred in a raid. Not because they heal better, but because they are better at giving back resources to their group.

I stand by my initial conviction that, relative to other builds, sorcs are not in a good place for sustain in an all-out dps setup. Sure, I and many others can attest to the fact that mag sorcs can pull ~40k in a trials setting. Given the same circumstances, including buffs, group cohesion, properly timing mechanics, etc., I see other dps (who have zero issues with sustain) pulling upwards of 50k. Note that I stated Ele Drain and Siphon Spirit as a must in order to sustain; removing these from the equation puts mag sorcs in a tough spot. The same can be said for various other skills, such as repentance and shards, but removing these from the equation has a noticeably less severe impact on those that typically rely on them.

I currently know of a few different builds that can crank out 45k with only self buffs. Is 40k bad? No, of course not. But if you play multiple builds/toons it becomes evident that the resource management and damage output potential on a sorc hinges far more on others in their group than other classes and builds do. I take no personal issue with dps relying on their group for sustain, but mag sorcs rely on their group to a greater degree. There are a number of scenarios in which we must switch targets as dps, and doing so requires healers to continually apply Ele Drain and Siphon Spirit on trash mobs, i.e. bannermen in vSO. Ideally, mag sorcs would not be constrained in such a manner. I am unsure of another class/build that can be completely OOM after killing a couple of adds, and perhaps still not have enough ult built up to Overload until magicka is restored to a reasonable level.

As for healers giving resources to the group, this may be of benefit: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3156857/#Comment_3156857

Ultimately, my point was regarding balance. It seems perfectly reasonable to me that the cost of some sorc skills could be readjusted to accommodate this disparity, or even buffed a little to make the resource management mini-game more worthwhile, and put mag sorc parses closer to those of other builds.

Which high dps class has it the easiest in PvE?

In terms of sustain? I'd wager that would be stam dks and stam sorcs, due to the benefits of heavy attack weaving with Molten Armaments and Bound Armaments.

Blevil · July 2016

Thanks for the info guys. Would these suggestions also be viable on a magplar or do they have other options?

Mush55 · July 2016

Deathgiggle wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Magicka sorcs in an all-out dps setup are not in a good place for sustain right now. For trials, Ele Drain is an absolute must-have. Use of Worm Cult can help, and Siphon Spirit (resto) is almost as powerful as Ele Drain. Otherwise, you will have to resort to reduced cost, higher recovery, and even using something like Dark Exchange (as much as nobody wants to) to sustain.

It would be nice if magicka sorcs weren't already cranking out 10-15k less than all stamina builds (and lacking behind some magicka builds too), but to have resource troubles on top of it...?

Sorcs arent 15K behind stam builds, and if ele drain is up, they dont have sustain issues. Good sorcs pull close to 40k and a handful of people pull closer to 45k on a stam build. Its also a tougher rotation and you have to be in melee range with no group utility. They should pull more.

Sorcs are NOT in a bad spot for PVE DPS at the moment, despite popular belief, if just looking at the numbers. Certainly, there build is pretty narrow, but all glass cannon builds are inflexible and need help sustaining. My magic DK sucks without ele drain. My Stam DK sucks without repentance. If you are building for endgame, you are going to need help with resources. That is why Templar healers are preferred in a raid. Not because they heal better, but because they are better at giving back resources to their group.

I stand by my initial conviction that, relative to other builds, sorcs are not in a good place for sustain in an all-out dps setup. Sure, I and many others can attest to the fact that mag sorcs can pull ~40k in a trials setting. Given the same circumstances, including buffs, group cohesion, properly timing mechanics, etc., I see other dps (who have zero issues with sustain) pulling upwards of 50k. Note that I stated Ele Drain and Siphon Spirit as a must in order to sustain; removing these from the equation puts mag sorcs in a tough spot. The same can be said for various other skills, such as repentance and shards, but removing these from the equation has a noticeably less severe impact on those that typically rely on them.

I currently know of a few different builds that can crank out 45k with only self buffs. Is 40k bad? No, of course not. But if you play multiple builds/toons it becomes evident that the resource management and damage output potential on a sorc hinges far more on others in their group than other classes and builds do. I take no personal issue with dps relying on their group for sustain, but mag sorcs rely on their group to a greater degree. There are a number of scenarios in which we must switch targets as dps, and doing so requires healers to continually apply Ele Drain and Siphon Spirit on trash mobs, i.e. bannermen in vSO. Ideally, mag sorcs would not be constrained in such a manner. I am unsure of another class/build that can be completely OOM after killing a couple of adds, and perhaps still not have enough ult built up to Overload until magicka is restored to a reasonable level.

As for healers giving resources to the group, this may be of benefit: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3156857/#Comment_3156857

Ultimately, my point was regarding balance. It seems perfectly reasonable to me that the cost of some sorc skills could be readjusted to accommodate this disparity, or even buffed a little to make the resource management mini-game more worthwhile, and put mag sorc parses closer to those of other builds.

Which high dps class has it the easiest in PvE?

Mag nb but after the last dlc even that can start to struggle in some situations now...

darthsithis · July 2016

I keep my overload above 500 always, use dark exchange, heavy attack with resto when i can, overload, ele drain, overload. Never really had regen problems, its my stamina that just goes away so fast that i can't cc break more than once.

also, medium attack weaving after kena procs, not proc'ing kena all the time. only intentionally, not spamming wards, if my magic is 25% its my first priority to get it back up with the techniques i and others here have mentioned before I dps.

I think the biggest problem players have is that they go dps rambo and dont think about resource management. It's a mindset. You can be very competitive with 700 regen.

or engine guardian i guess...?

Senaxu · July 2016

i guess it should clarified what we are talking about. PvE or PvP. It's a big difference...

darthsithis · July 2016

Ah sorry. I was talking about pve.

For pvp, just stack regen and keep the healing wards up? Endless fury on nearby ads or weak enemies.

Bout all I know tho