ALL Motifs should be Account Wide

Perniciouss · July 2016

I had put this at the end of an old post but decided to start a new one to revive and deepen a conversation about the use and application of motifs in the game.

I think ALL motifs should be account wide whether they are found in the world, bought from an individual, bought via the guild stores, or purchased in the crown store. Motifs are used for appearance only, and there are so many of them now that it becomes very expensive trying to obtain all of them for one character much less multiple characters on one account...especially so for the motifs that come out of Cyrodiil, IC and harder to get to spots or require a lot of AP to buy. All of my characters are crafters and it gets very expensive to buy motifs for multiple characters on the same account. Making motifs 'account wide' does not lessen the amount of time it takes to bring a character to its full potential for making light, med or heavy gear, or weapons. The real effort in blacksmith, clothing, and woodworking is researching all the traits which is the most time consuming part of learning to craft. Leave the researching so that each character has to do their own research, but make motifs account wide. The mechanic that designates when a motif can be used based on crafting level can also be left in place as well.

Having motifs become account wide would:

Encourages people to develop crafting for blacksmith, clothing and woodworking on multiple characters by making it easier to have the motifs we already obtained by one character on the account available to the other characters on the same account. Currently, most of us have just one character that we designate as our main for crafting gear and weapons due to the cost of acquiring motifs for multiple characters on the account. This discourages most people from developing crafting for all of their characters.
Increases the need for more crafting materials which would provide a market for the glut of under-used product currently in the marketplace. There are a lot of materials unable to be sold due to the amount of overstock of underused product in the marketplace.
Allows us to reasonably have more than one character on an account be all they can be crafting wise without having to break the bank purchasing motifs that there is already a shortage of or obscenely difficult or pricey to obtain.

Making motifs 'account wide' would be a win-win situation for everyone: those who would like to fully develop all of the characters on their account, and those that sell materials in the marketplace by making raw and finished materials a viable market again.

Anil235 · July 2016

Or you can just use one character... if it really bothers you that much then deal with it. It isn't like you need multiple characters for each profession.

Elsonso · July 2016

Ultimately, this would make the game more boring.

rabb1t_ESO · July 2016

While I get your arguments for having learned motifs be account wide, I am also confused why you would not simply focus on having 'a crafting character' and change the other things by making a new character.

As an RPer I get having this character do this thing, and multiple characters doing multiple things, and that from a gameplay standpoint it does make sense the character must learn the thing 'themselves'.

But... I have to ask; with the possibility of simply 'retiring a character' from combat once they hit max and leave them as 'your crafting character'; is this really about a desire to have all learned things known by all crafting characters, or is it a sadness or desire to 'move on' from the character who is your crafter in order to create a new one you would like better? I get sad memories being attached to a character and maybe you want to move on and start fresh, hoping for new memories and paths with a new character and not wanting to lose progress. And yes, needing to hang on to a character with sad real world memories attached is a sad thing. But with the upcoming racial and name change features, you effectively could do that if that's what is bothering you about keeping the learned things limited to a single character.

Would I agree overall... mmm... I'm not sure. On the one hand it devalues the individual character. On the other I do get, and understand, if sad things happen 'in this life' a desire to want to wipe it and move on with a new one without losing the progress. Particularly since it's such a huge investment in time, not just for the motifs, but even more so for the researching time.

Maybe instead of it being available account wide there could be a motif / research knowledge transfer from one character to another for in-game monies?

treborrealb14_ESO · July 2016

Ahh the spice of life .... I enjoy that we can have different toons specializing in different things and having certain crafting ability/knowledge

other wise this would be super vanilla

saxgooner · July 2016

Just finally got all the motifs learned

Ourorboros · July 2016

Not a 'win-win' for the market in motifs. It's bad enough that the crown store sells these items.

mistermacintosh · July 2016

Perniciouss wrote: »

I had put this at the end of an old post but decided to start a new one to revive and deepen a conversation about the use and application of motifs in the game.

I think ALL motifs should be account wide whether they are found in the world, bought from an individual, bought via the guild stores, or purchased in the crown store. Motifs are used for appearance only, and there are so many of them now that it becomes very expensive trying to obtain all of them for one character much less multiple characters on one account...especially so for the motifs that come out of Cyrodiil, IC and harder to get to spots or require a lot of AP to buy. All of my characters are crafters and it gets very expensive to buy motifs for multiple characters on the same account. Making motifs 'account wide' does not lessen the amount of time it takes to bring a character to its full potential for making light, med or heavy gear, or weapons. The real effort in blacksmith, clothing, and woodworking is researching all the traits which is the most time consuming part of learning to craft. Leave the researching so that each character has to do their own research, but make motifs account wide. The mechanic that designates when a motif can be used based on crafting level can also be left in place as well.

Having motifs become account wide would:
Encourages people to develop crafting for blacksmith, clothing and woodworking on multiple characters by making it easier to have the motifs we already obtained by one character on the account available to the other characters on the same account. Currently, most of us have just one character that we designate as our main for crafting gear and weapons due to the cost of acquiring motifs for multiple characters on the account. This discourages most people from developing crafting for all of their characters.

Increases the need for more crafting materials which would provide a market for the glut of under-used product currently in the marketplace. There are a lot of materials unable to be sold due to the amount of overstock of underused product in the marketplace.

Allows us to reasonably have more than one character on an account be all they can be crafting wise without having to break the bank purchasing motifs that there is already a shortage of or obscenely difficult or pricey to obtain.

Making motifs 'account wide' would be a win-win situation for everyone: those who would like to fully develop all of the characters on their account, and those that sell materials in the marketplace by making raw and finished materials a viable market again.

I would like this. I craft on multiple characters (originally due to mat management before crafting bags). I can keep up with current motif pages for my woodworker, blacksmith and clothier because they don't all need to know the same pages, but it is a hassle. Making motifs account wide would be great, and would reduce time spent in the same delves over and over again trying to get specific pages.

Also, for those who think that this would be too "vanilla" an option: motif books are in the crown store. Anyone can learn those on all characters with no effort if they have the cash. So I think we've already passed that threshold.

Perniciouss · July 2016

I have been playing since day one, and I do have one character that is the 'do all' of ALL crafts and has the motifs. And it has taken a lot of work to obtain all those motifs. BUT, I am a also a completionist for both questing and achievements on all of my characters. I do not blindly bulldoze my way through the game on kill mode only just because I already have one character that is a master at crafting (Jack of All Trades achievement). I do have multiple characters that have worked their way to 50 at BS, CL and WW, and the other crafts, and have traits done, and I do daily crafting writs with them. The rub lies with why should they be limited on the style of gear they can make due to the motif situation. Why would ZOS give each of our characters the ability to craft and be all they can be craft wise, and then limit them by making it extremely expensive and/or difficult to obtaining motifs and completing crafting achievements. I think that minimizing the impact that obtaining motifs has on an account of characters would be the least they could do that would allow us to fully develop ALL of the characters on an account. No one says you have to do crafting with all of your characters, but there are those of us that would like to fully develop each character on our accounts without having to break the bank to do so. It is already time consuming enough to research all the traits.

xilfxlegion · July 2016

i never really cared about this until yesterday.

all i needed was assassin boots --- sat waiting in hrota cave for 2 hours until i finally got the boots. then i promptly learned them on the character i was using, which was not the character i needed them for.

saxgooner · July 2016

Doh!

gw2only1b14_ESO · July 2016

dethbl00ms wrote: »

Perniciouss wrote: »

I had put this at the end of an old post but decided to start a new one to revive and deepen a conversation about the use and application of motifs in the game.

I think ALL motifs should be account wide whether they are found in the world, bought from an individual, bought via the guild stores, or purchased in the crown store. Motifs are used for appearance only, and there are so many of them now that it becomes very expensive trying to obtain all of them for one character much less multiple characters on one account...especially so for the motifs that come out of Cyrodiil, IC and harder to get to spots or require a lot of AP to buy. All of my characters are crafters and it gets very expensive to buy motifs for multiple characters on the same account. Making motifs 'account wide' does not lessen the amount of time it takes to bring a character to its full potential for making light, med or heavy gear, or weapons. The real effort in blacksmith, clothing, and woodworking is researching all the traits which is the most time consuming part of learning to craft. Leave the researching so that each character has to do their own research, but make motifs account wide. The mechanic that designates when a motif can be used based on crafting level can also be left in place as well.

Having motifs become account wide would:
Encourages people to develop crafting for blacksmith, clothing and woodworking on multiple characters by making it easier to have the motifs we already obtained by one character on the account available to the other characters on the same account. Currently, most of us have just one character that we designate as our main for crafting gear and weapons due to the cost of acquiring motifs for multiple characters on the account. This discourages most people from developing crafting for all of their characters.

Increases the need for more crafting materials which would provide a market for the glut of under-used product currently in the marketplace. There are a lot of materials unable to be sold due to the amount of overstock of underused product in the marketplace.

Allows us to reasonably have more than one character on an account be all they can be crafting wise without having to break the bank purchasing motifs that there is already a shortage of or obscenely difficult or pricey to obtain.

Making motifs 'account wide' would be a win-win situation for everyone: those who would like to fully develop all of the characters on their account, and those that sell materials in the marketplace by making raw and finished materials a viable market again.

I would like this. I craft on multiple characters (originally due to mat management before crafting bags). I can keep up with current motif pages for my woodworker, blacksmith and clothier because they don't all need to know the same pages, but it is a hassle. Making motifs account wide would be great, and would reduce time spent in the same delves over and over again trying to get specific pages.

Also, for those who think that this would be too "vanilla" an option: motif books are in the crown store. Anyone can learn those on all characters with no effort if they have the cash. So I think we've already passed that threshold.

Theres still many Motifs not on the store and I'm sure many are happy for that fact as it stands

gw2only1b14_ESO · July 2016

treborrealb14_ESO wrote: »

Ahh the spice of life .... I enjoy that we can have different toons specializing in different things and having certain crafting ability/knowledge

other wise this would be super vanilla

I see tons on the guild store for players but many would have to part with there gold

ADarklore · July 2016

Perniciouss wrote: »

I have been playing since day one, and I do have one character that is the 'do all' of ALL crafts and has the motifs. And it has taken a lot of work to obtain all those motifs. BUT, I am a also a completionist for both questing and achievements on all of my characters. I do not blindly bulldoze my way through the game on kill mode only just because I already have one character that is a master at crafting (Jack of All Trades achievement). I do have multiple characters that have worked their way to 50 at BS, CL and WW, and the other crafts, and have traits done, and I do daily crafting writs with them. The rub lies with why should they be limited on the style of gear they can make due to the motif situation. Why would ZOS give each of our characters the ability to craft and be all they can be craft wise, and then limit them by making it extremely expensive and/or difficult to obtaining motifs and completing crafting achievements. I think that minimizing the impact that obtaining motifs has on an account of characters would be the least they could do that would allow us to fully develop ALL of the characters on an account. No one says you have to do crafting with all of your characters, but there are those of us that would like to fully develop each character on our accounts without having to break the bank to do so. It is already time consuming enough to research all the traits.

So you're blaming the game for not catering to how YOU want to play because YOU are a completionist and want every character to have EVERY achievement. Not everyone is like you, I'm betting you are an ultra-minority in the game... and turning the game into how you want it would harm a LOT of players- especially those who sell motifs, not to mention, it would also harm Crown Store sales of motifs as well.

shadowwraith666 · July 2016

I agree, dyes, skins, costumes, polymorphs, mounts, pets and mementoes are already account wide, motifs should be the same especially the 1K crowns or higher ones.

lardvader · July 2016

I think they should be account wide, but since they're not I focused all my crafting on one character. This makes more sence and there's more than enough skillpoints in the game to max out every craft and several skill trees to make a great fighter as well.

Still would not mind if it was account wide....

Duiwel · July 2016

OP it really isn't hard to get to 50 on clothing, blacksmithing, woodworking and that's all you need on ONE character.

Then just teach that one character all the motifs.

Surely you knew motifs were only character bound when you were still learning / playing with the blue racial motifs.

Then came the epic ones primal, barbarian, ancient elf, daedric....

Back when Daedric motifs cost 90k upwards you should have known this as well... ( talking now August 2015ish )

Especially given the rarity of the Imperial motif...

Heck I knew this is how it worked in April 2014...

I have had a dedicated crafter ( for styles ) since then.

60% of my characters are at 50/50/50 for most crafting so it's really not hard to get one character with your most valuable motifs on that.

Whatever motifs the others know just use those for that style then if you REALLY want to or wait.

In the future the expensive motifs now will only cost a couple of thousand in a few months - a year.

Of all the issues in the game this isn't an issue and should not even be raised.

I am not saying it would not be nice, but working around this the way the system is intended for has been around since beta.

Solution: Use one crafter for all and no problems.

alkodav · July 2016

Yep,
motifs and achievements should be account wide

It's one of the biggest lack of eso i think

who want to collect all of this expencive books and rare fishes on all 8+14 chars? it's ridiculous

STEVIL · July 2016

Perniciouss wrote: »

Having motifs become account wide would:
Encourages people to develop crafting for blacksmith, clothing and woodworking on multiple characters by making it easier to have the motifs we already obtained by one character on the account available to the other characters on the same account. Currently, most of us have just one character that we designate as our main for crafting gear and weapons due to the cost of acquiring motifs for multiple characters on the account. This discourages most people from developing crafting for all of their characters.

having motifs account wide would not encourage this. There is basically almost no gain for having multiple characters sharing motifs that makes up for the skills spent.

IF you are putting skills to max multiple characters in the same craft lines, its for writs and/or deliveries. That is where the payday is. That means you are likely touching the crafters daily and can use one for actual set crafting needs just as easy as using many.

I have THREE maxed enchanters, three maxed provisioners and two maxed clothiers in addition to single maxed wood, metal and alchemy with several others raised slightly to get to deliveries or medicinal use.

So i DO see benefit in having multiple characters invest this way... but motif sharing would not have madew a single choice any more appealing to me.

Perniciouss wrote: »

[*] Increases the need for more crafting materials which would provide a market for the glut of under-used product currently in the marketplace. There are a lot of materials unable to be sold due to the amount of overstock of underused product in the marketplace.

Not making much sense here.

having more than one character that can craft a given commodity doesn't increase my need for crafted items and doesnt affect my need for materials.

[*]

Perniciouss wrote: »

[*] Allows us to reasonably have more than one character on an account be all they can be crafting wise without having to break the bank purchasing motifs that there is already a shortage of or obscenely difficult or pricey to obtain.

cannot argue here. For those for whom having more than one crafter of a given type at max and filled out is an END IN ITSELF, not a means tyo an end, the change would... well... maybe it does bear arguing.

Currently for such a player they can have:
One maxed full motif character and X maxed craft without full motifs for ABC amount of time, resources and effort.
OR
They can have X with maxed craft and all motifs for ABC*XYZ time and effort and such, a lot more money or hunting for motifs.

IF they feel the second is a greater accomplishment, brings them more pleasure... thats cool for them.

But what you suggest is to allow the second for just the effort and time of the first.

If they value the achievment for its own sake, wouldn't giving it for free cut that down?

Its like saying winning one tourney and getting four trophies is as rewarding as winning four tourneys and getting a trophy each.

meh... doesn't follow to me but my choices to max craft were based on character and results.... and shared motifs wouldn't have affected any of those decisions.

All that said about your supporting argument... i personally wouldn't object to the change once they have the other more serious issues fixed.

After they overhaul writs and nodes for the NTO (new tamriel order) shared motifs... surew why not.

kylewwefan · July 2016

Yes. And they should do lore books, sky shards and achievements on all characters as well.

Ritzey01 · July 2016

Worst idea ever. I hate the whole " make everything easier so i can have everything without doing anything for it" attitude that seems so prevalent on these forums.

If you want the motifs on all of your toons, then by all means do! just go out and EARN them on each toon!

Elsonso · July 2016

Ritzey01 wrote: »

Worst idea ever. I hate the whole " make everything easier so i can have everything without doing anything for it" attitude that seems so prevalent on these forums.

If you want the motifs on all of your toons, then by all means do! just go out and EARN them on each toon!

My main question is why bother making more than one crafter if this is such an issue? Just to prevent having to transfer armor and weapons between characters? I suppose account wide armor and weapons would be a better solution, like mounts and pets.