Magicka DK doesnt need a buff, every other class just needs a nerf(PvP)

Burning_Talons · July 2016

Too tired to make a full thread ill update tommorow

Disclaimer: im hella tired

Just every other class has crazy sustain, damage ect. While Dks is a class that your have to use your brain to use and think about what you're doing because rss management isnt easy mode and you cant just burst people down in a moments notice. How the game should be. If you wanna have insane damage your shouldn't be able to hide behind 15k spammable sheilds or shuffle rolling into oblivion and back. Harness magicka on a sorc with their ward is idiotic. Templar heals are insane and void of any strategy. Alot of people are gonna be like "hurr durr dont nerf our class just buff yours" my answer is no. I dont want this game to have everything buffed so high that strategy/skill will not be needed because of how easy the game is. So nerf everything

#NerfTheWorld2016

Draxys · July 2016

After some of the discussion in other magicka DK threads, I've come to agree with this. I used to want DK to be buffed to match the strength of other classes (and stam DK). But magicka DK actually has to choose between damage, sustain, or survivability. You can't have all 3 and even having just 2 is a stretch.

I've come to agree that every class should be this way. The current system (not just CP) supports everyone being entitled to feel like the ultimate hero- you can have strong dps, and the same way you get strong dps is the way you get survivability, and no other class/setup has make the choices that magicka DK does. That's not okay. This isn't elder superheroes online.

laksikus · July 2016

I bet you never met a mag dk Tank with whip an the healin claw (forgot Name just now...)
They are beasts and they can burst down easy enough.
Never Hit by dot, fosilize , Meteor? Hurts alot.
And dks get ress from Ultis, so sustain isnt Too bad

Burning_Talons · July 2016

laksikus wrote: »

I bet you never met a mag dk Tank with whip an the healin claw (forgot Name just now...)
They are beasts and they can burst down easy enough.
Never Hit by dot, fosilize , Meteor? Hurts alot.
And dks get ress from Ultis, so sustain isnt Too bad

@laksikus Whip doesnt even hit hard especially in Heavy Armour, maybe you should not run around naked if your getting smaxked hard by a lava whip Heavy armour user.
You just said meteor, a 200c Ulti to use as a wombo combo on a single target. You better hope its not a sorc because they cant negate the damage with 1 sheild, a templar can heal it with one button even after impact. You better hope you can even fossilize a shuffle user

laksikus · July 2016

Burning_Talons wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

I bet you never met a mag dk Tank with whip an the healin claw (forgot Name just now...)
They are beasts and they can burst down easy enough.
Never Hit by dot, fosilize , Meteor? Hurts alot.
And dks get ress from Ultis, so sustain isnt Too bad

@laksikus Whip doesnt even hit hard especially in Heavy Armour, maybe you should not run around naked if your getting smaxked hard by a lava whip Heavy armour user.
You just said meteor, a 200c Ulti to use as a wombo combo on a single target. You better hope its not a sorc because they cant negate the damage with 1 sheild, a templar can heal it with one button even after impact. You better hope you can even fossilize a shuffle user

then dont use heavy armor?
i know it hurts plenty, cos i did alot of duels, and mag dk is strong.

And i know that whip can do nearly the same damage as concealed weapon witch is the highest damage instand ability for mag users i think. Someone tested it out some weeks ago, and posted numbers. i think it was @Tryxus .

whip hits hard, and on unbalanced enemies even harder.

And as far as i know. shuffle isnt a class abilit, so everyone can use it. And it doesnt even benefit from max stamina, so no reason mag chars cant run it.

Burning_Talons · July 2016

laksikus wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

I bet you never met a mag dk Tank with whip an the healin claw (forgot Name just now...)
They are beasts and they can burst down easy enough.
Never Hit by dot, fosilize , Meteor? Hurts alot.
And dks get ress from Ultis, so sustain isnt Too bad

@laksikus Whip doesnt even hit hard especially in Heavy Armour, maybe you should not run around naked if your getting smaxked hard by a lava whip Heavy armour user.
You just said meteor, a 200c Ulti to use as a wombo combo on a single target. You better hope its not a sorc because they cant negate the damage with 1 sheild, a templar can heal it with one button even after impact. You better hope you can even fossilize a shuffle user

then dont use heavy armor?
i know it hurts plenty, cos i did alot of duels, and mag dk is strong.

And i know that whip can do nearly the same damage as concealed weapon witch is the highest damage instand ability for mag users i think. Someone tested it out some weeks ago, and posted numbers. i think it was @Tryxus .

whip hits hard, and on unbalanced enemies even harder.

And as far as i know. shuffle isnt a class abilit, so everyone can use it. And it doesnt even benefit from max stamina, so no reason mag chars cant run it.

@laksikus I don't wear heavy and I do my damage but hella squishy, which is called balance unlike every other class I have to make sacrifices to even perform at a mediocre level. You are referring to duels which is a controlled enviroment which isn't a good way to tell if I class is good because.
1.They less likely to run dry on RSS because they only have to focus on 1 person
2. Can easily make a duel build which is terrabad open world
3. They get to buff up before battle without being rushed
4. Poisons
5. Not having to worry about surroundings

Go open world with a DK and you will understand what I mean. They're some very good DKs I watch alot of vids and all the vids I see they struggle to kill anyone remotely good quickly, fight bad players,or rely on a little help from others. Thry have to use all their utility to prevail which is how the game should be and I feel Mdk is the only class that does that

Xerton · July 2016

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Too tired to make a full thread ill update tommorow

Disclaimer: im hella tired

Just every other class has crazy sustain, damage ect. While Dks is a class that your have to use your brain to use and think about what you're doing because rss management isnt easy mode and you cant just burst people down in a moments notice. How the game should be. If you wanna have insane damage your shouldn't be able to hide behind 15k spammable sheilds or shuffle rolling into oblivion and back. Harness magicka on a sorc with their ward is idiotic. Templar heals are insane and void of any strategy. Alot of people are gonna be like "hurr durr dont nerf our class just buff yours" my answer is no. I dont want this game to have everything buffed so high that strategy/skill will not be needed because of how easy the game is. So nerf everything

#NerfTheWorld2016

/sign

Zenimax and @Wrobel somehow seem to believe, that every class should be able to tank 4+ Players solo without support of others. NO! Just no!
They should not. There must always be the choice between DMG and survibility.
I mean where is the point, when everyone is a Tank and a DD at the same time? Oh wait, there is no point at all.
Stealth classes must be able to kill people that are unprepared within seconds (they can), but they also have to be so fragile, that they can be easily killed, when found and not supported by healers.
At the current state of the game they just come out of the shadows, oneshot the guy next to you and you have absolutely no chance at all to kill them, because the will just keep rolling and it is impossible to even deal DMG to them.
And if you somehow should be so lucky to actually hit them with anything, they will just use one of their ridiculous heals (why does a DD need a strong heal, or a heal at all?) and are back to full life once again.

Magicka DK on the other hand have no burst DMG what so ever, they lost their only really good heal (Dragon Blood) and they have no real escape mechanic what so ever.
So they lack of everything ALL other classes have (at least in part, as Templar has no escape).

But as Zenimax just doesn't care, we will never see any changes to that, so why even bother?
Isn't that right @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom and @ZOS_KaiSchober ?

laksikus · July 2016

Burning_Talons wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

I bet you never met a mag dk Tank with whip an the healin claw (forgot Name just now...)
They are beasts and they can burst down easy enough.
Never Hit by dot, fosilize , Meteor? Hurts alot.
And dks get ress from Ultis, so sustain isnt Too bad

@laksikus Whip doesnt even hit hard especially in Heavy Armour, maybe you should not run around naked if your getting smaxked hard by a lava whip Heavy armour user.
You just said meteor, a 200c Ulti to use as a wombo combo on a single target. You better hope its not a sorc because they cant negate the damage with 1 sheild, a templar can heal it with one button even after impact. You better hope you can even fossilize a shuffle user

then dont use heavy armor?
i know it hurts plenty, cos i did alot of duels, and mag dk is strong.

And i know that whip can do nearly the same damage as concealed weapon witch is the highest damage instand ability for mag users i think. Someone tested it out some weeks ago, and posted numbers. i think it was @Tryxus .

whip hits hard, and on unbalanced enemies even harder.

And as far as i know. shuffle isnt a class abilit, so everyone can use it. And it doesnt even benefit from max stamina, so no reason mag chars cant run it.

@laksikus I don't wear heavy and I do my damage but hella squishy, which is called balance unlike every other class I have to make sacrifices to even perform at a mediocre level. You are referring to duels which is a controlled enviroment which isn't a good way to tell if I class is good because.
1.They less likely to run dry on RSS because they only have to focus on 1 person
2. Can easily make a duel build which is terrabad open world
3. They get to buff up before battle without being rushed
4. Poisons
5. Not having to worry about surroundings

Go open world with a DK and you will understand what I mean. They're some very good DKs I watch alot of vids and all the vids I see they struggle to kill anyone remotely good quickly, fight bad players,or rely on a little help from others. Thry have to use all their utility to prevail which is how the game should be and I feel Mdk is the only class that does that

i have a mag dk.
and your whip hitts as hard as concealed.
you get RSS back from ulti, which is better than most classes regen.
Mag nbs are worse than mag dk in pvp right now. Mag dks have wings and armor buff + light shield.
Mag nb have a gap closer and a little but mroe regen. cloak is bugged as hell, and everything hits you.
Sorcs dont even have a instant ability without fire staff anymore, shields got nerfed hard, and surge doesnt heal good.

Draxys · July 2016

laksikus wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

I bet you never met a mag dk Tank with whip an the healin claw (forgot Name just now...)
They are beasts and they can burst down easy enough.
Never Hit by dot, fosilize , Meteor? Hurts alot.
And dks get ress from Ultis, so sustain isnt Too bad

@laksikus Whip doesnt even hit hard especially in Heavy Armour, maybe you should not run around naked if your getting smaxked hard by a lava whip Heavy armour user.
You just said meteor, a 200c Ulti to use as a wombo combo on a single target. You better hope its not a sorc because they cant negate the damage with 1 sheild, a templar can heal it with one button even after impact. You better hope you can even fossilize a shuffle user

then dont use heavy armor?
i know it hurts plenty, cos i did alot of duels, and mag dk is strong.

And i know that whip can do nearly the same damage as concealed weapon witch is the highest damage instand ability for mag users i think. Someone tested it out some weeks ago, and posted numbers. i think it was @Tryxus .

whip hits hard, and on unbalanced enemies even harder.

And as far as i know. shuffle isnt a class abilit, so everyone can use it. And it doesnt even benefit from max stamina, so no reason mag chars cant run it.

@laksikus I don't wear heavy and I do my damage but hella squishy, which is called balance unlike every other class I have to make sacrifices to even perform at a mediocre level. You are referring to duels which is a controlled enviroment which isn't a good way to tell if I class is good because.
1.They less likely to run dry on RSS because they only have to focus on 1 person
2. Can easily make a duel build which is terrabad open world
3. They get to buff up before battle without being rushed
4. Poisons
5. Not having to worry about surroundings

Go open world with a DK and you will understand what I mean. They're some very good DKs I watch alot of vids and all the vids I see they struggle to kill anyone remotely good quickly, fight bad players,or rely on a little help from others. Thry have to use all their utility to prevail which is how the game should be and I feel Mdk is the only class that does that

i have a mag dk.
and your whip hitts as hard as concealed.
you get RSS back from ulti, which is better than most classes regen.
Mag nbs are worse than mag dk in pvp right now. Mag dks have wings and armor buff + light shield.
Mag nb have a gap closer and a little but mroe regen. cloak is bugged as hell, and everything hits you.
Sorcs dont even have a instant ability without fire staff anymore, shields got nerfed hard, and surge doesnt heal good.

Do you play in non vet on console or something? You sound seriously ill-informed.

laksikus · July 2016

being nerfed anyway?

Draxys wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

I bet you never met a mag dk Tank with whip an the healin claw (forgot Name just now...)
They are beasts and they can burst down easy enough.
Never Hit by dot, fosilize , Meteor? Hurts alot.
And dks get ress from Ultis, so sustain isnt Too bad

@laksikus Whip doesnt even hit hard especially in Heavy Armour, maybe you should not run around naked if your getting smaxked hard by a lava whip Heavy armour user.
You just said meteor, a 200c Ulti to use as a wombo combo on a single target. You better hope its not a sorc because they cant negate the damage with 1 sheild, a templar can heal it with one button even after impact. You better hope you can even fossilize a shuffle user

then dont use heavy armor?
i know it hurts plenty, cos i did alot of duels, and mag dk is strong.

And i know that whip can do nearly the same damage as concealed weapon witch is the highest damage instand ability for mag users i think. Someone tested it out some weeks ago, and posted numbers. i think it was @Tryxus .

whip hits hard, and on unbalanced enemies even harder.

And as far as i know. shuffle isnt a class abilit, so everyone can use it. And it doesnt even benefit from max stamina, so no reason mag chars cant run it.

@laksikus I don't wear heavy and I do my damage but hella squishy, which is called balance unlike every other class I have to make sacrifices to even perform at a mediocre level. You are referring to duels which is a controlled enviroment which isn't a good way to tell if I class is good because.
1.They less likely to run dry on RSS because they only have to focus on 1 person
2. Can easily make a duel build which is terrabad open world
3. They get to buff up before battle without being rushed
4. Poisons
5. Not having to worry about surroundings

Go open world with a DK and you will understand what I mean. They're some very good DKs I watch alot of vids and all the vids I see they struggle to kill anyone remotely good quickly, fight bad players,or rely on a little help from others. Thry have to use all their utility to prevail which is how the game should be and I feel Mdk is the only class that does that

i have a mag dk.
and your whip hitts as hard as concealed.
you get RSS back from ulti, which is better than most classes regen.
Mag nbs are worse than mag dk in pvp right now. Mag dks have wings and armor buff + light shield.
Mag nb have a gap closer and a little but mroe regen. cloak is bugged as hell, and everything hits you.
Sorcs dont even have a instant ability without fire staff anymore, shields got nerfed hard, and surge doesnt heal good.

Do you play in non vet on console or something? You sound seriously ill-informed.

on what exactly?
that cloak is bugged? or that with light armor shield everyone could shieldstack now?
or that whip hits hard, no matter what some mag dks say?
that dks get ress back from using ultis?

that those burst builds he is talking about is nearly every stam class, but not so much mag classes? and he wants everything

sounds more like you are ill informed. the only thing mag dks miss is expedition in my opinion. mag dks are awesome in group play, ok in soloplay, and bad in ganking.

Reapor · July 2016

Im so glad players dont have the power to edit this game.

Tryxus · July 2016

You know, I actually had a day off and decided to sleep in. But then my forum sense started tingling...

And yeah, it was me. Totally guillty. I compared Whip to the Damage values of both Swallow Soul and Concealed Weapon

I wear Light on both my MagBlade and my Mag DK and I can reach about the same damage values with CW and Whip (Whip is still somewhat lower, but not that much). If I were to use Heavy on both, Whip would be a wet noodle and CW would be a sewing needle indeed

laksikus wrote: »

Mag nbs are worse than mag dk in pvp right now.

MagBlades are actually better because...

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Magicka DK doesnt need a buff

Chains
Dragon Blood
Stone Fist
...

Mag DKs do need SERIOUS buffing

RAGUNAnoOne · July 2016

You do have a point on some things I mean NB get sustain and added stealth burst even if they don't use a single class move. Mag DKS unlike other mage builds MUST rely on gear to make up for lack of supporting moves and passives. Burning embers is the saving grace that every one complains about just like vamps and bats back in the camo one shot days. However unlike bats it is a DOT that is purgable in fact EVERY MDK move that deals decent damage is a purgable DOT or a stupid circle which is not viable for group PvP which the game is based around. that and there gapcloser sucks. At least ONE decent direct damage skill could save them in PvP.

MaxwellC · July 2016

People don't use "I do duels" as a sole thing to validate your statement, I'm seriously tired of that mindset. When you duel you build CP,armor, and skills around the duel at hand. Base your opinions on you roaming around Cyrodiil while taking the class as a whole in that same thought.

As a Stam DK I hate fighting Mag DKs since they can control me a close distances with the talon to fossilize rotation plus they can immediately heal if I'm too close since I lack all the burst damage in the world. I like playing Mag DK because the skills are fun (even though my favorite skill that scaled to max resource was made into a mage light reskin while sorcs stole the skill from me).

Dragon's blood needs a buff both versions of it to; coag is a joke and so is gdb both healing you at 16.5% in PvP of your missing health which each buff that is skill related being over-written by potions or any like buffs acquired.

Don't even get me started on the ridicilous cost it has which is 4.5k without any CP or armor passives and 3.3k-3.5k with cp/armor passives unlocked.

Vercingetorix · July 2016

When every class gets buffed up to where the NB is at, with NO nerfs to anything, then I think balance will be achieved - also hell will have record low temperatures...

Armitas · July 2016

Yeah ideally other classes should have the same experience in sacrifice and balance as the mDK. The mDK really does meet the expectations one has come to traditionally expect in an mmo.That being that offense, survival, and sustain stand in a perpendicular relationship rather than a parallel one as is the current situation with many classes and builds.

I think they could do it without direct class nerfs. Just putting healing on its own seperate stat would make a hige difference in ensuring glass cannons are actually made of glass. I think the same route can be used to fix other problems as well. That would take sometime though so hopefully we can get a buff that is inline with future changes.

Bashev · July 2016

Armitas wrote: »

I think they could do it without direct class nerfs. Just putting healing on its own seperate stat would make a hige difference in ensuring glass cannons are actually made of glass. I think the same route can be used to fix other problems as well. That would take sometime though so hopefully we can get a buff that is inline with future changes.

I think in one of the ESO live shows @wrobel said that some combat changes are coming, which will be related to the healing and dps and that he agrees that they shouldn't scale with the same resource.

Ishammael · July 2016

Bashev wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

I think they could do it without direct class nerfs. Just putting healing on its own seperate stat would make a hige difference in ensuring glass cannons are actually made of glass. I think the same route can be used to fix other problems as well. That would take sometime though so hopefully we can get a buff that is inline with future changes.

I think in one of the ESO live shows @wrobel said that some combat changes are coming, which will be related to the healing and dps and that he agrees that they shouldn't scale with the same resource.

That would be a good start.

Bashev · July 2016

Ishammael wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

I think they could do it without direct class nerfs. Just putting healing on its own seperate stat would make a hige difference in ensuring glass cannons are actually made of glass. I think the same route can be used to fix other problems as well. That would take sometime though so hopefully we can get a buff that is inline with future changes.

I think in one of the ESO live shows @wrobel said that some combat changes are coming, which will be related to the healing and dps and that he agrees that they shouldn't scale with the same resource.

That would be a good start.

I found what exactly @wrobel said @ 1h and 1min (i cannot link the video directly to this part of the show)-->
https://youtube.com/watch?v=bKu7GnANIO8&feature=youtu.be&t=3654

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKu7GnANIO8&feature=youtu.be&t=3654
They were in a prototype phase!

Armitas · July 2016

Bashev wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

I think they could do it without direct class nerfs. Just putting healing on its own seperate stat would make a hige difference in ensuring glass cannons are actually made of glass. I think the same route can be used to fix other problems as well. That would take sometime though so hopefully we can get a buff that is inline with future changes.

I think in one of the ESO live shows @wrobel said that some combat changes are coming, which will be related to the healing and dps and that he agrees that they shouldn't scale with the same resource.

Nice! Hopefully this is soon without the ™

Anhedonie · July 2016

I dislike nerfs, but only DK requires any skill to play right now.
So maybe this is the right strategy.

Burning_Talons · July 2016

Reapor wrote: »

Im so glad players dont have the power to edit this game.

@Reapor Im sorry you depemd on insane buffs to be good in Cyro

leepalmer95 · July 2016

I kind of agree with where you going here, problem is that killing something like a shield stacker on a mag dk is basically impossible sometimes

You need meteor to even think about finishing them, majority of the time they'll just out stack you.

Mag dk's don't even run a gap closer now because chains is basically useless and there is literally no room on bars for them because then need to use so many slots to survive.

NBrookus · July 2016

Bashev wrote: »

They were in a prototype phase!

Translation: They brainstormed something on a whiteboard once and there might be a half-completed spreadsheet.

But that was 5 months ago; one can hope. At least it's on their radar.

susmitds · July 2016

I agree that all classes need a nerf in PvP but care to explain how can that be done without touching PvE?

idk · July 2016

Soooo, OP wants his class buffed and every other class nerfed? Did I get that right?

susmitds · July 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Soooo, OP wants his class buffed and every other class nerfed? Did I get that right?

Pretty much.

Panth141 · July 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Soooo, OP wants his class buffed and every other class nerfed? Did I get that right?

@Giles.floydub17_ESO

Please read the first six words of the title, followed by the extensive discussion within this and other threads regarding the general feeling towards PvP before making unhelpful comments.

It becomes quite clear from the discussion that this isn't a suggestion based around making magicka DK stronger, on indeed immediately requesting any sweeping nerfs - from my viewpoint @Burning_Talons is trying to highlight the fact that mDK is the only real class that has to compromise and manage between sustain, defence and burst (lol), whereas other classes have their offence and defence scaling from the same stat pool - hence buffing your damage buffs your survivability. The criticism here is that this should not be the case; compromise should be necessary.

* Before you throw out that I, too, just want my class buffed - I main a stamina NB.

thankyourat · July 2016

all magicka classes are weak in pvp right now. it's too many snares and roots and light armor doesn't protect against anything. magicka dk is probably one of the best magicka classes for 1v1 and also for XvX were it struggles is 1vX because it's too slow to escape and doesn't really have the burst potential of a magicka sorc. this game isn't balanced off of 1vX though. magicka nightblad is really struggling this patch as well. i've played magic nightblade pretty much since console release this is by far the worse i can remember it in pvp. so there is really no reason to nerf the other magicka classes we are all feeling the same sting right now. the only difference is that i can still solo on my magblade because if i don't wont to fight most of the time i can just leave the fight. whip can hit like a truck too there really isn't a difference between that and concealed weapon as people have stated in this post already. dks also have the best ability in the game which is major mending. so dk's have a lot of good stuff going for them. solo play just isn't one of them, but i don't think that will ever get addressed because this is a group based game

KingYogi415 · July 2016

This is the most balanced the game has ever been!
I never say this but LTP.

#nerfallwhiners
#nerfallglitches

Burning_Talons · July 2016

KingYogi415 wrote: »

This is the most balanced the game has ever been!
I never say this but LTP.

#nerfallwhiners
#nerfallglitches

Send me your magic dk clips @KingYogi415