Suggestion to help with pvp exploit.

crowfl56 · July 2016

Ok, now please folks don't get all worked up over this and me saying its an exploit.

The people most using these to gain access to keeps with out breaching a wall and even taking the keep, IMO, shouldn't be happening.

I most cases its the extremely high level rated pvp player, 35-50 pvp rating. Plus they can solo a keep take.

No one person, in fact even a small group should not be able to take a keep.

Now, my suggestion which I would believe has been suggested before, simply because its to easy a fix.

Make all guards on the keep and in the keep able to kill any player no matter how they managed to get on the walls or in the keep.

That is until the walls are breached, once that happens the guards revert to their normal abilities and dmg.

The guards out front of the keep remain normal guards.

Thus you can still take a keep, as it was intended, not by using an exploit.

I know all you people using this are going to state its a game mechanic, so not an exploit.

You are splitting hairs, but all you are doing is making things harder for ZOS to balance anything in pvp.

No need to nerf, no need to ban anything or anyone, simple

Wollust · July 2016

No thanks. Would punish smaller groups which can't always keep the ever repairing zerglings in check.

I also disagree with you saying on how a small group shouldn't be able to take a keep.
Cyrodiil and the keeps are a place primary for PvP and not PvE. If we wanted to fight strong NPCs we may as well just do vMoL or so.

crowfl56 · July 2016

You didn't read the post, try again after reading and understanding this post please

AlnilamE · July 2016

crowfl56 wrote: »

No one person, in fact even a small group should not be able to take a keep.

Now, my suggestion which I would believe has been suggested before, simply because its to easy a fix.

I actually know someone who can take an undefended keep by themselves (through normal means, ie, breaching the walls). Takes him 15-20 minutes, but it's doable if you are strategic about it. A small group (3-5 players) should absolutely be able to take a keep.

Make all guards on the keep and in the keep able to kill any player no matter how they managed to get on the walls or in the keep.

That is until the walls are breached, once that happens the guards revert to their normal abilities and dmg.

This would work against people who manage to hide inside a keep as it's taken (and can then work to take it back from within), which is a perfectly valid strategy. If the force that takes a keep is not thorough in searching for enemy players, it's their own fault.

Wollust · July 2016

I read and understood your idea and I think you need to understand its consequences. Especially as you didn't think it through enough.

Rohamad_Ali · July 2016

There's no way around it . The Devs have to fix the gap closers at some point . The collision system ingame code is probably a technical nightmare which is probably why they added the superman effect . Look how many times a character mounted or not gets hung up on the smallest ground obstacles . They should add gofers ingame to make make sense of this .

Anyways changing the entire keep dynamic to fix this problem seems overkill .

crowfl56 · July 2016

Good bad or indifferent, this is only a suggestion

crowfl56 · July 2016

This would work against people who manage to hide inside a keep as it's taken (and can then work to take it back from within), which is a perfectly valid strategy. If the force that takes a keep is not thorough in searching for enemy players, it's their own fault.
[/quote]

Yes, you are right, and again , no one person should be able to take a keep solo, EVER.

Although hiding in a keep after a take rarely works, at least on the NA server, we secure all keeps after a take

.

Rohamad_Ali · July 2016

crowfl56 wrote: »

Good bad or indifferent, this is only a suggestion

I completely appreciate you trying to improve the game with suggestions . This idea was actually posted before but most of thought it upset the balance . You see , defenders already have the upper hand with a keep if they know how to defend it . Making the guards even more powerful will make assault even more difficult . Perhaps too difficult . We have to consider every angle in PvP .

crowfl56 · July 2016

Sigh people seem to read only to a point where they find something they don't agree on.

If you can secretly take a keep, solo or with a couple other higher level pvp peeps, that is again, IMO an exploit.

I am not talking about defense of a keep, there is no defense if you don't know the keep is under attack.

You don't know the keep is under attack if you can avoid breaching any wall.

OK ?

Turelus · July 2016

Considering ZOS have now come out and stated it's an exploit to bypass keep walls with gap closers I don't think they need new mechanics to fix the issue.

They just need to finally fix gap closers so it's not possible any more and we're good to go with Cyrodiil how it was before.

Asmael · July 2016

crowfl56 wrote: »

This would work against people who manage to hide inside a keep as it's taken (and can then work to take it back from within), which is a perfectly valid strategy. If the force that takes a keep is not thorough in searching for enemy players, it's their own fault.

Yes, you are right, and again , no one person should be able to take a keep solo, EVER.

[snip]

I'll happily disagree, as I drop a fire ballista and bomb those f***** to ash.

Anyway, this is the pure definition of band-aid fix. A fix to avoid fixing the root of the problem, thus a bad fix.

Just fix the darn gap closers and be done with it.

leepalmer95 · July 2016

Yet everyone was cool with teleport strike going through doors and dk's leaping into keeps.

Voxicity · July 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Yet everyone was cool with teleport strike going through doors and dk's leaping into keeps.

Teleport striking into a keep (especially inner) is really not that cool.

It hurts.

A lot.

Turelus · July 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Yet everyone was cool with teleport strike going through doors and dk's leaping into keeps.

Not really, just having been there since launch it had become a feature not a bug. Which is why everyone just assumed it was okay to start doing it with the new bugged gap closers and why ZOS needs to make a more visual statement they'll be issuing bans for it now.

Asmael · July 2016

KaiVox22 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Yet everyone was cool with teleport strike going through doors and dk's leaping into keeps.

Teleport striking into a keep (especially inner) is really not that cool.

It hurts.

A lot.

"Oh, a spambusher!"

*gets out of keep, use a few heals and get back in*

*spambusher gets inside keep*

*spambusher dies as he gets focused by 10 guards and 5 different players*

leepalmer95 · July 2016

Turelus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Yet everyone was cool with teleport strike going through doors and dk's leaping into keeps.

Not really, just having been there since launch it had become a feature not a bug. Which is why everyone just assumed it was okay to start doing it with the new bugged gap closers and why ZOS needs to make a more visual statement they'll be issuing bans for it now.

I liked it to be honest, it made siege a lot more fun than it is now. Siegeing is just boring in general.

Plus there is literally no way to affect counter siegers, because your siege isn't going to kill them as it's easily purgable/healable. Having a guy wait until your group charges through the breach to kill/cc the siegers was a good strat.

AlnilamE · July 2016

crowfl56 wrote: »

This would work against people who manage to hide inside a keep as it's taken (and can then work to take it back from within), which is a perfectly valid strategy. If the force that takes a keep is not thorough in searching for enemy players, it's their own fault.

Yes, you are right, and again , no one person should be able to take a keep solo, EVER.

Although hiding in a keep after a take rarely works, at least on the NA server, we secure all keeps after a take .

If a player knows how to man multiple siege and in which order to take down the keep NPCs, why shouldn't they be able to take a keep solo? It's not easy, and if nobody cares to come defend it, it's not that player's fault.

I don't know what faction you play, but I've been left inside a keep that was taken (either on the outer walls or the inner keep) more than once. I'm just usually not patient enough to wait till everyone is gone, so I've never been able to take it back.

Edit to fix quote tags

Turelus · July 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Yet everyone was cool with teleport strike going through doors and dk's leaping into keeps.

Not really, just having been there since launch it had become a feature not a bug. Which is why everyone just assumed it was okay to start doing it with the new bugged gap closers and why ZOS needs to make a more visual statement they'll be issuing bans for it now.

I liked it to be honest, it made siege a lot more fun than it is now. Siegeing is just boring in general.

Plus there is literally no way to affect counter siegers, because your siege isn't going to kill them as it's easily purgable/healable. Having a guy wait until your group charges through the breach to kill/cc the siegers was a good strat.

I enjoyed the days when DK could chain up walls etc. it was always something special to that class and being able to get onto the walls added a new tactical element people had to consider. However this is the direction ZOS chose that you must siege a keep to enter, as such we have to follow those rules.

I wonder how long before people start complaining about the trick to teleport to another nightblades shade to get inside keeps.

xerasia · July 2016

crowfl56 wrote: »

<snip>
Make all guards on the keep and in the keep able to kill any player no matter how they managed to get on the walls or in the keep.

That is until the walls are breached, once that happens the guards revert to their normal abilities and dmg.

The guards out front of the keep remain normal guards. <snip>

So the guards on the wall will be able to range kill a player who is taking out the rounds guards if they're close enough? Nah. Or if you're ranging them back, they're killable, and only melee killable if there's a breach? Let's just fix the gap closer.

I agree that the exploit/taking a keep within is an issue, but this business about not being able to take a keep with a small group of people is silly. I've two-manned keeps by sieging and strategically killing NPCs and enemy players inside the same way I would with a larger group.