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Trueflame - The Week in Review - 7/2/2016

Daggerfall_Bones
Daggerfall_Bones
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- Loading Screens - These are a little hit and miss, I solo'ed for weeks with no issue but in groups I'm seeing the loading screens comes back. Many players in my groups are experiencing them as well. This is one of the most frustrating problems for groups and I hope they can get another look in Truflame.

- Unable to invite to groups - I just experienced this problem for the first time and heard a few others have seen it. My main was unable to invite to group for two days, in this I couldn't form guild raids unless I was on another character. Fortunately, I had another characters leveled but this is one of the most frustrating bugs I've come across. I can invite with alts but not with my main PvP character.

- Can't mount after spawning at keeps - This one is minor but there is something that seems to be holding me in combat after I respawn and cannot mount from time to time. Another annoying waste of time.

- Tank builds with the Scourge Harvester monster set - They're health is dropping to zero and they are still not dying. I think this may be due to lag because one of them was a zero health went to full then just dropped dead to zero after they were out of range. When this set is combined with mist form, health recovery and keep terrain (stair, walls) these tanks are neigh impossible to kill in a reasonable amount of time.

- Perma dodge - I haven't seen these as much lately but I'm still seeing some players dodge 100% of attacks with Shuffle up without roll dodging. Could be a lag issue again and haven't seen this as much after the bans.

- Lag in general - Some days in the open field with pretty large groups things are running great but one thing I've noticed is when groups start waiting for the ticks things start to slow down. It's been really hit and miss this week with lag.

- Teleporting into keeps with multiple abilities - This is still happening, I don't see it much and looks like most are not doing it intentionally.
Bones - Dunmer DK
  • sadownik
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    All of those things i noticed and i must admit from that list loading screens while teleporting between locations and after death are the most frustrating thing for me. As sad as it sounds i got used to lag and other issues.

    I would also like to add 1 thing that really bothers me. Since around 2 months i see much much less people and action even on pop locked server - Trueflame EU. There are only few people in IC it seems but still on Cyro map there are only 2 crossed swords icons at most. Last time i found the will to log in pop locked campaign looked like 1-2 bars. Did they stealth changed population limits again?
  • Zheg
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    - Invisible and mobile negates
    - Permaroot and snare
    - Base movement speed still bugged
    - Invisible siege animations and red aoe circles, exacerbated in lag
    - All of the 60+ outstanding bugs from the TG patch that were organized into a now dead thread that ZOS said they couldn't reproduce
  • Satiar
    Satiar
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    I got on Friday to get drunk and mess around in TF. Lag was bad as ever but the alcohol seems to help.
    Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
    Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost



  • sadownik
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    Satiar wrote: »
    I got on Friday to get drunk and mess around in TF. Lag was bad as ever but the alcohol seems to help.

    Drinking almost always helps but the mornings... So i choose illegal stuff in my poor country to do the trick usually.
  • fastolfv_ESO
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    loading screens have been getting worse, about a week ago they seemed to have stopped to everyones amazement for about 3 days and then it was 3-4 infinite loading screens per port in my group. We ride between most keeps now unless its like brindle to dragonclaw
  • zyk
    zyk
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    - Tank builds with the Scourge Harvester monster set - They're health is dropping to zero and they are still not dying. I think this may be due to lag because one of them was a zero health went to full then just dropped dead to zero after they were out of range. When this set is combined with mist form, health recovery and keep terrain (stair, walls) these tanks are neigh impossible to kill in a reasonable amount of time.
    I noticed a lot of this when playing last night -- which was the first time I had played in weeks.

    The Malubeth issues are well documented, so I won't go there. Well, other than to say half the problem is that most players don't seem to know what the purple beam means--and probably never will.

    I understand why some Magicka builds practically need Mist Form to offset competitive disadvantages, but the gameplay is just stupid.

    I want to complain about cheese, but I was using Fasalla's Guile at the time, so meh. Of course, I use it to counter insane heal builds.

    Eric Wrobel, the Master Cheesemonger.
  • ataggs
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    Ya Bones I saw the teleporting thing, I think it was at Nikel, this guy wasn't using chains but was making to the second floor from the porch. The load screens are pretty bad now too because I'm afraid to crash and come back in. Stinger did that last week and wound up 90 in queue.
      Confirmed Casual
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  • kevlarto_ESO
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    seen everything mentioned in this thread, plus invisible players that never come out of stealth while they are using melee weapons, seem like a lot of stuff not drawing in like it should, I have seen players heal up completely while in mist form, I have seen a player throw crystal shards then ambush some one have not figured that one out yet. I swear this game take one step forward 10 steps back, :neutral:
    Edited by kevlarto_ESO on July 4, 2016 10:54AM
  • Daggerfall_Bones
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    I'm going to try to do this thread once a week. I'm running 12 to 24 man groups just about nightly now and tend to notice a few trends when it comes to problems.

    Zheg touched on a few things I've also seen.

    - Invisible and mobile negates

    I've seen this with negates and I actually got this with Bat Swarm, (I wasn't a vampire) I respawned at a keep with bat swarm and I wasn't even a vampire. Seemed like someones bat swarm to my character.

    - Permaroot and snare

    This one I have to disagree with, without the snares the meta masters would be neigh invincible in the open field in this meta. In keeps, gates, and rocks you just can't kill them because you can't keep them in line of sight long enough. In keeps with this meta heavy armor, mist, Scourge Harvester are the new barrier rotation all in a build. You just can't kill someone with mist in heavy armor who is using crates, walls and stairs to get out of line of sight. We've been competitive all week and even held our own with a few of the meta master groups in the open field but there are a few where it is no contest when you can just hide behind a crate, turn a corner, or drop down some stairs. If we didn't have roots and snares it would be no contest. Even then when you have a group of 4 or more running these builds forget about it. A stalemate is about the best you can hope for until they get bored and come out in the open field.

    This goes to zyk's point, you pretty much need mist form with a magicka build now for mobility.

    - Base movement speed still bugged

    I never really noticed this until it was mentioned, but yes looks like there are some lingering effects of reduction of movement speed in some cases like when I respawn.

    - Invisible siege animations and red aoe circles, exacerbated in lag

    Yes, I see this in lag sometimes.

    - All of the 60+ outstanding bugs from the TG patch that were organized into a now dead thread that ZOS said they couldn't reproduce

    Suggestions

    Get rid of the ticks. Instead have AP bonuses for holding keeps like Tel Var Stone bonuses. I notice lag surges when these long battles go on. With your 1st 3 home keeps a 10% bonus, your next 3 home keeps a 20% bonus. No bonus for holding another faction, just points on the campaign. The ticks seem to be an unnecessary calculation, factions will pile on and not leave a keep because of them. Just doesn't seem like a good system where all you have to do is be in the proximity

    Get rid of the crates in the keeps - They're adding more armor and spell resist than most legendary sets. There is one over by the Chal gate as well. Just doesn't make sense a stack of wooden boxes can add so much damage mitigation.

    Bones - Dunmer DK
  • Zheg
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    On the roots and snares bones, it's not that there aren't options (however limited) and it's NOT that there shouldn't be a counter to your 'meta masters', it just shouldn't be a counter that makes everyone in the game slow down. It's what drives me bonkers when I see people trying to make that point on the forums when they say rapids can't be improved in any way. Add a counter to your meta masters that doesn't make me grip my mouse like a stress ball at a keep fight even when I'm solo, there's absolutely no need for such an obnoxious combat mechanic, none whatsoever.
    Edited by Zheg on July 3, 2016 11:49PM
  • SirDopey
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    Pretty sure there's still plenty of people using CE, they're just not being obvious about it now. Had one instance last night (AU time) where a player seemed to have an endless amount of resources and his health even went into negative on all of our screens, but he just healed up.
    NA PC | AD
    xx Doc Holliday xx
  • Daggerfall_Bones
    Daggerfall_Bones
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    Zheg wrote: »
    On the roots and snares bones, it's not that there aren't options (however limited) and it's NOT that there shouldn't be a counter to your 'meta masters', it just shouldn't be a counter that makes everyone in the game slow down. It's what drives me bonkers when I see people trying to make that point on the forums when they say rapids can't be improved in any way. Add a counter to your meta masters that doesn't make me grip my mouse like a stress ball at a keep fight even when I'm solo, there's absolutely no need for such an obnoxious combat mechanic, none whatsoever.

    Yeah, I hear you. The never die tree hugging/crate cradling tanks grate my nerves.

    #nerfcrates
    Bones - Dunmer DK
  • Daggerfall_Bones
    Daggerfall_Bones
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    SirDopey wrote: »
    Pretty sure there's still plenty of people using CE, they're just not being obvious about it now. Had one instance last night (AU time) where a player seemed to have an endless amount of resources and his health even went into negative on all of our screens, but he just healed up.

    Unfortunately from what I understand this is true. I used to never report players but after the Memorial Day cheat-a-thon I report players constantly now if I remotely suspect them using the CE. Report them and let ZoS sort it out. There is at least one I haven't seen in a while that I reported.
    Bones - Dunmer DK
  • kevlarto_ESO
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    SirDopey wrote: »
    Pretty sure there's still plenty of people using CE, they're just not being obvious about it now. Had one instance last night (AU time) where a player seemed to have an endless amount of resources and his health even went into negative on all of our screens, but he just healed up.

    I agree and I am beginning to think this contributes to the lag issue, when the CE came to light, for a few days after and all those god mode cheaters were dying like everyone else, that week people in chat players were talking about wow how much less lag there was, then as the cheaters returned and certain blob groups start to turn it back on here comes the lag again.

    Seen a DC player hovering in the air over the flag at the Roe farm, shooting off his specials at the players on the ground below. Lag can cause a lot of strange issues but sometimes nothing seems to explain it.
    Edited by kevlarto_ESO on July 4, 2016 11:03AM
  • Zheg
    Zheg
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    SirDopey wrote: »
    Pretty sure there's still plenty of people using CE, they're just not being obvious about it now. Had one instance last night (AU time) where a player seemed to have an endless amount of resources and his health even went into negative on all of our screens, but he just healed up.

    I agree and I am beginning to think this contributes to the lag issue, when the CE came to light, for a few days after and all those god mode cheaters were dying like everyone else, that week people in chat players were talking about wow how much less lag there was, then as the cheaters returned and certain blob groups start to turn it back on here comes the lag again.

    Seen a DC player hovering in the air over the flag at the Roe farm, shooting off his specials at the players on the ground below. Lag can cause a lot of strange issues but sometimes nothing seems to explain it.

    Blob groups? Really? The people that we know of officially were in the 1vX crowd, not groups. As someone that regularly fought and killed every blob group in the game, they do indeed die. It's nothing like the infinite resources/super sonic speed that CE is known for.
  • RinaldoGandolphi
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    Bombard spam is just garbage. Every fight is 3-4 people spamming that nonsense while your trying to fight outnumbered. Bombard and the perma snare root stuff just tips the scales in favor of larger numbers.

    Larger numbers should only go so far, smarter tactical play from smaller groups should be a counter but only numbers matter now.

    I miss the days of streaking through zergs and chain dropping negates...my group of 5 could wipe 24 on the reg doing that and ground oils the zergs died only because they went full potato and thought they should be able to win with no strategy, that's why we got the trash we have today. Stuff wasn't OP, the potatoes were and still are underpowered....
    Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
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  • Daggerfall_Bones
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    Bombard spam is just garbage. Every fight is 3-4 people spamming that nonsense while your trying to fight outnumbered. Bombard and the perma snare root stuff just tips the scales in favor of larger numbers.

    Larger numbers should only go so far, smarter tactical play from smaller groups should be a counter but only numbers matter now.

    I miss the days of streaking through zergs and chain dropping negates...my group of 5 could wipe 24 on the reg doing that and ground oils the zergs died only because they went full potato and thought they should be able to win with no strategy, that's why we got the trash we have today. Stuff wasn't OP, the potatoes were and still are underpowered....

    I still see small groups wipe larger ones. Meta changes and the great players change with it. It is much more difficult kill a zerg in the open field but with patience and pulling large groups into ideal conditions they still come out on top. The only difference I've seen that bombard makes is the top tier groups go from winning 99% of their battles to about 75%. If anything it has balanced the new player experienced player gap.

    There are 4 things I see the greats use to be great. Burst damage, sustain, damage mitigation and movement. All bombard does is make movement more difficult especially with the Rapids nerf. Bombard can however be mitigated but your builds have to sacrifice one of the other 3 by slotting a 2H for forward momentum, the heavy armor ability or a potion.

    There is at least one group that I've run into that adjusted and still do quite well with 4-5 players. They setup a fight on their terms and went to work. They avoided the open field, used line of sight and even when we got half of them down had the presence of mind to camp, when we thought we had them, we stacked on flag and boom. Props to them and showed me it still could be done. It is taking longer for players to adapt but seems the highest tier players have mastered this meta and know when and where to pick their fights.
    Bones - Dunmer DK
  • Lieblingsjunge
    Lieblingsjunge
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    Loading screens are worse when you're in a group. God knows why, but it is.
    Ignorance is the greatest weapon of tyranny.
    PC - EU.
    Lieblingsjunge(AD) - Racechanged Argonian :< | AR 50 - No double AP or Bleakers involved |
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  • zyk
    zyk
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    Zheg wrote: »
    Blob groups? Really? The people that we know of officially were in the 1vX crowd, not groups. As someone that regularly fought and killed every blob group in the game, they do indeed die. It's nothing like the infinite resources/super sonic speed that CE is known for.
    This is very naive. While I doubt there are prominent guilds composed entirely of CE users, I expect CE users come in all shapes and sizes.

    There are certainly prominent guilds who were happy to exploit in-game bugs. If they knew they could get away with it, I don't doubt at least some of those players would take it a step further by using CE.

    There are individual and group benefits to subtly cheating with CE in groups of all sizes. CE gives cheaters in large groups a better opportunity to stand out among their peers and/or to help wipe a hated rival. There are plenty of motivations to cheat in a group environment.

    The main issue with memory hacking in ESO is not the floating meteor spammers. It is the players who do subtly enough to avoid casual detection.

    With that said, I do not see any reason to believe CE makes the game laggier. If server performance was improved immediately after the CE scandal was exposed, it is likely because the playerbase was demoralized and many did not feel like playing.
  • Zheg
    Zheg
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    Bombard spam is just garbage. Every fight is 3-4 people spamming that nonsense while your trying to fight outnumbered. Bombard and the perma snare root stuff just tips the scales in favor of larger numbers.

    Larger numbers should only go so far, smarter tactical play from smaller groups should be a counter but only numbers matter now.

    I miss the days of streaking through zergs and chain dropping negates...my group of 5 could wipe 24 on the reg doing that and ground oils the zergs died only because they went full potato and thought they should be able to win with no strategy, that's why we got the trash we have today. Stuff wasn't OP, the potatoes were and still are underpowered....

    I still see small groups wipe larger ones. Meta changes and the great players change with it. It is much more difficult kill a zerg in the open field but with patience and pulling large groups into ideal conditions they still come out on top. The only difference I've seen that bombard makes is the top tier groups go from winning 99% of their battles to about 75%. If anything it has balanced the new player experienced player gap.

    There are 4 things I see the greats use to be great. Burst damage, sustain, damage mitigation and movement. All bombard does is make movement more difficult especially with the Rapids nerf. Bombard can however be mitigated but your builds have to sacrifice one of the other 3 by slotting a 2H for forward momentum, the heavy armor ability or a potion.

    There is at least one group that I've run into that adjusted and still do quite well with 4-5 players. They setup a fight on their terms and went to work. They avoided the open field, used line of sight and even when we got half of them down had the presence of mind to camp, when we thought we had them, we stacked on flag and boom. Props to them and showed me it still could be done. It is taking longer for players to adapt but seems the highest tier players have mastered this meta and know when and where to pick their fights.

    Immovable and potions don't do jack to roots, why is this such a common misconception?

    You either wear a 2H or are forced to go vamp for mist form (which doesn't work when you want to move 2 inches while you're attacking) if you're a magicka build. Those are pretty craptacular options for a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place. No other mmo in recent years that I can remember has allowed combat mechanics that enable complete loss of control of your character. Between CC break being iffy at best, the way lag impedes your play, and the capacity to permanently root your target (inside of an unbreakable negate that could be both mobile and invisible because #lulz), there is no excuse for a major mmo to allow a combat system like this - none. Games of old tried this crap and it failed miserably. You should be worried that the ZOS combat team introduced this, not pleased.

    Larger numbers should never mean that open field automatically goes to them for the win. It's an absurd concept, please stop. There are only so many places to choke and LoS, and much of the zergling bombardtard spammers have gained enough experience to not funnel into a choke. Your description is pie in the sky optimism, especially since we both played on TF and both saw the megazerg start to abandon their potato nature and just spread out, root, and range down everything.
    Edited by Zheg on July 4, 2016 5:49PM
  • Daggerfall_Bones
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    I agree that numbers alone should not be the determining factor in the open field but neither should 24 people pressing 1 button, waiting 8 seconds and boom. Bombard is the counter to this to style of play otherwise we'd be back to chasing groups for 20 mintues at a time whose only means of dps is proxy det. You don't want to be rooted you'll sacrifice you ability to cast in mist, or you don't cast at all with Rapids.

    ZoS nerfed purge, Rapids, barrier all in one patch in response to the larger problem. All of the one button buff alls coupled with proxy det.

    What was needed was means to counter the proxy det groups, that happened.

    There should be a penalty for constantly retreating. Maybe they could put Rapids back the way it was but with a damage penalty to each player. 50% more damage to your charcter is Rapids is active and you are hit in the back.

    What I see is smaller groups still killing larger ones, they adapted and moved away from proxy det. The det groups were victims of their own success. Could you imagine with this heavy armor meta rotating barriers and unlimited movement for 24 man sized groups. VE would be standing in 5 raids of opposing factions instead of 3.

    ***Edits for grammer, English doesn't appear to be my first language when typing on a phone***
    Edited by Daggerfall_Bones on July 21, 2016 3:34PM
    Bones - Dunmer DK
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