Willow's Path

Panth141 · June 2016

Erondil wrote: »

Panth141 wrote: »

The formula for recovery is:

Recovery = ((Base + Gear + Mundus * Divines) * CP * Other skills + Drink) * Skills

It seems that Willow's Path may be getting dumped into the 'Other Skills'. Intended? Only ZoS knows - it'd be great if someone could link a concrete response from ZoS confirming that this is a bug.

Equation from http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/pts-2-1-2-sorcerer-arithmagic/

Correct me if I'm wrong but willows doesnt take CP into acount either (reported and confirmed bug iirc) so it would be more like:
Recovery = ((Base + Gear + Mundus * Divines) * (CP * Other skills+Willows) + Drink) * Skills

@Erondil

That could well be the case - I haven't tested Willow's myself - though I do have a 5 piece in the bank so I'll post some comprehensive testing numbers here when EU is back up!

Soulac · June 2016

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

In b4 willows changed to static +250 regen to each stat rather than %

Thanks, your comment just destroyed the set by giving zos a new idea how to "fix" it.

Rohamad_Ali · June 2016

So who's running this set ? Class wise I mean . I'm not willows path savvy .

Leandor · June 2016

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

So who's running this set ? Class wise I mean . I'm not willows path savvy .

PvPers.

Panth141 · June 2016

Okay, here's some data...

All tests done with Robust Constitution & Refreshing Shadows passives at max, 7 x MA (+28%). Drinks used give + 410 stamina regen. Gear unchanged apart from 5th pc WP, replaced by different piece of MA. The data isn't entirely comprehensive - I may do further tests to try and really understand what is going on.

Data

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1W9EE4vvfa2y47GzgVPwfiV59oiFBFNrSlzkrkcDiQug/edit?usp=sharing

Conclusions

Dataset 1 (No CP, no Drinks) indicates that WP 5pc does work differently to other regen-boosting skills. In this scenario WP provides a flat 15% increase in regen.

Dataset 2 (No CP, using Drinks) shows that this flat 15% increase does not continue when drinks are used; I'm not sure on the exact formula change, but there definitely is a difference here. Instead, the regen buff is only 9.8%.

Dataset 3 (20.2% CP, no drinks) repeats the findings of Dataset 1 - without drinks, regen is buffed by a flat 15% increase in regen. The fact that the 15% buff remains indicates that there is no interference between CP & WP - without CP (Dataset 1), regen was buffed by 15%. With CP (Dataset 3), the CP buffed regen was buffed a further 15% by WP.

Dataset 4 (20.2% CP, using drinks) again shows that consuming drinks causes a change in the percentage bonus of WP, reducing to 10.4%. There must me some formulaic differences in the placement of Drink and WP bonuses in this scenario, as it isn't possible for the drinks vs no drinks scenarios to provide different WP bonuses without shifting the 'Drink' contribution in the regen equation (see previous post).

TL;DR

Willow's Path 5 piece provides a flat ~15% increase in regen when not using drinks; it continues to provide +15% flat boost to regen that is itself boosted by champion points.

When drinks are used, Willow's Path provides a significantly lower boost in regen ~ +10%. The formula for this is strange.

Leandor · June 2016

The first thing your data proves is that racial, class and armor bonuses are additive (as in the percentages are added up an then applied to the base value) and first priority. They are applied before all other bonuses. Afterwards, CP bonus and WP bonus are applied multiplicative (as in after applying the additive values, the result is increased for WP by multiplying with 1.15 and then for CP by multiplying the result with 1.202).

Formula:

{[(Base Regen + Set Bonuses + Enchants) * (1 + Class Bonus + Race Bonus + Armor Bonus)] * (1 + CP Bonus) * (1 + WP bonus)} + [Drink Bonus * (1 + Class Bonus + Race Bonus + Armor Bonus)]

This can be proven from the drink value. The difference in numbers between drink and no drink, without WP and CP, is exactly 627, which is 410 multiplied by 1.53 (sum of racial/Khajiit+class/Nightblade+armor/Medium is 53%).

This also proves that racial, class and armor is actually applied to drinks. Furthermore, this value (627 Bonus from Drinks) stays the same for the same comparison with CP. That means that CP also do not apply to drinks, still. Tagging @Soulac for info.

From that point, since the WP bonus is handled similar to the CP bonus, the current functionality of WP is actually consistent.

Panth141 wrote: »

Dataset 4 (20.2% CP, using drinks) again shows that consuming drinks causes a change in the percentage bonus of WP, reducing to 10.4%. There must me some formulaic differences in the placement of Drink and WP bonuses in this scenario, as it isn't possible for the drinks vs no drinks scenarios to provide different WP bonuses without shifting the 'Drink' contribution in the regen equation (see previous post).

This is actually very logical. You calculate the "lost bonus" of drink+WP in relation to a different (i.e. larger) base value. That means that the percentage of loss has to be smaller, and that is reflected in your numbers.

IxSTALKERxI · June 2016

Kinda off topic, but is clouding swarm still broken? If so, someone should start a fix clouding swarm thread.

HoloYoitsu · June 2016

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

In b4 willows changed to static +250 regen to each stat rather than %

Cinnamon_Spider · June 2016

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

So who's running this set ? Class wise I mean . I'm not willows path savvy .

I used to run this on my templar and one of my sorcs.

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Kinda off topic, but is clouding swarm still broken? If so, someone should start a fix clouding swarm thread.

Yes.

Panth141 · June 2016

Leandor wrote: »
The first thing your data proves is that racial, class and armor bonuses are additive (as in the percentages are added up an then applied to the base value) and first priority. They are applied before all other bonuses. Afterwards, CP bonus and WP bonus are applied multiplicative (as in after applying the additive values, the result is increased for WP by multiplying with 1.15 and then for CP by multiplying the result with 1.202).

Formula:
{[(Base Regen + Set Bonuses + Enchants) * (1 + Class Bonus + Race Bonus + Armor Bonus)] * (1 + CP Bonus) * (1 + WP bonus)} + [Drink Bonus * (1 + Class Bonus + Race Bonus + Armor Bonus)]
This can be proven from the drink value. The difference in numbers between drink and no drink, without WP and CP, is exactly 627, which is 410 multiplied by 1.53 (sum of racial/Khajiit+class/Nightblade+armor/Medium is 53%).

This also proves that racial, class and armor is actually applied to drinks. Furthermore, this value (627 Bonus from Drinks) stays the same for the same comparison with CP. That means that CP also do not apply to drinks, still. Tagging @Soulac for info.

From that point, since the WP bonus is handled similar to the CP bonus, the current functionality of WP is actually consistent.

Panth141 wrote: »

Dataset 4 (20.2% CP, using drinks) again shows that consuming drinks causes a change in the percentage bonus of WP, reducing to 10.4%. There must me some formulaic differences in the placement of Drink and WP bonuses in this scenario, as it isn't possible for the drinks vs no drinks scenarios to provide different WP bonuses without shifting the 'Drink' contribution in the regen equation (see previous post).

This is actually very logical. You calculate the "lost bonus" of drink+WP in relation to a different (i.e. larger) base value. That means that the percentage of loss has to be smaller, and that is reflected in your numbers.

Thanks a lot for this, @Leandor - you definitely saved me the trouble! When I said it wasn't possible to produce the data without moving the 'Drink' variable, I was referring to the regen formula from here:

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/pts-2-1-2-sorcerer-arithmagic/

It seems overly convoluted to reapply the racial/class multipliers to Drinks separately, and it again seems strange that WP is excluded from the calculation applied to Drinks, especially as the other multipliers do apply!

DDuke · June 2016

I propose we rename this set to "Soulac's Path" & fix it.

Soulac · June 2016

DDuke wrote: »

I propose we rename this set to "Soulac's Path" & fix it.

Lilarna · July 2016

Besides this "doesn't apply to drinks" problem, on our side, it doesn't even apply at all on the character sheet. Done multiple checks, relogging, unequipping and putting back on, trying to weapon swap from a bar with 4 willow's to one with 5 willow's, etc.

So my question is : does it still give the 15% more recoveries though they don't show on the character sheet ? Or does it not even give them at all ?

@Soulac what have you noted on this ?

Chori · July 2016

After wanting to wear the 5 set piece on my nightblade again for so long, I decided it was not worth the wait. By the time they fix the set there might be out there a better game even, it's an endless wait.

I hope they fix it someday tho..

zyk · July 2016

Lilarna wrote: »

Besides this "doesn't apply to drinks" problem, on our side, it doesn't even apply at all on the character sheet. Done multiple checks, relogging, unequipping and putting back on, trying to weapon swap from a bar with 4 willow's to one with 5 willow's, etc.

So my question is : does it still give the 15% more recoveries though they don't show on the character sheet ? Or does it not even give them at all ?

Did you test while in combat?

Lilarna · July 2016

zyk wrote: »

Lilarna wrote: »

Besides this "doesn't apply to drinks" problem, on our side, it doesn't even apply at all on the character sheet. Done multiple checks, relogging, unequipping and putting back on, trying to weapon swap from a bar with 4 willow's to one with 5 willow's, etc.

So my question is : does it still give the 15% more recoveries though they don't show on the character sheet ? Or does it not even give them at all ?

Did you test while in combat?

Sorry I wasn't clear enough : yes, of course, tested it while in combat. Against packs of mobs, being completely in combat, and checking the character sheet while in combat. Weapon swapping from a bar with 4 willow's to one with 5 willow's, etc.

Other sets, like Orgnum's scales for example, will show up on the character sheet. The difference on an ability bar with radiant aura and without will show (well, that one with or without being in combat actually).

But for Willow's Path, it does not show up et all. Now, with FTC and combat cloud and CLS, I have not managed to configure it to see the normal regen ticks. I only get to see magicka and stamina returns from certain skills, and heals of course, but not the "XXX recovery" returns. Maybe the recoveries do tick stronger but it does not show up on character sheet ? How can I check that ?

So, is it the same for other people out there ?
Because in my case, it is not that Willow's Path gives" less than it should" because the drinks are counted differently in the + 15% calculation, it's that it just plain and simple gives nothing at all.