MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

People say if you get hit by overloads it's you're fault; there I disagree/agree.

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Nifty2g
I don't always die in the scenario but as I said before...

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

People say if you get hit by overloads it's you're fault; there I disagree/agree.

towards the end I used the set as an example on how OP it'll be in the scenario but prior to that I haven't. I'm assuming you agree with my first post regarding the set being implemented improperly since you didn't respond to it's example comparing a gap closer 20% extra damage set to elegant which is the same if it is applied with overload.

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@DRXHarbinger
You must think I'd sit there and let that happen, Sorcs In PvP don't stand a chance against me for the most part unless someone else joins in who can keep stunning me. I may be a Stam DK with no good burst skills aside from a leap but animation cancelling solves a lot

I'm not sure if you think I use snipe since you used DK as an example but let me say now; I don't use that skill and it only works when someone is hitting from afar and you're not paying attention. If you let a DK who's in that range field to do a leap on you while he snipes you then that is definitely your fault and a L2P issue. The reason for this thread was the simple fact that a set shouldn't increase any ultimates damage that's a thing that should never happen. If my take flight did 20% more damage and I 1 hit you, you wouldn't even be defending the set.

I will say I do not know if elegant does increase the damage of the ultimate I merely went for an example to help solve the issue if it was a real situation.

olsborg wrote: »

Overload wont ever hit a stambuild, its too slow and predictable.

Dred76 wrote: »

@MaxwellCrystal

Let's clarify this a bit.

First things first. Elegant provides 20% to light and heavy attacks. While Overload does indeed qualify as such, what isn't being discussed is the loss of spell damage on every other attack a sorc has and the limiting aspects of running this set.

In order to 5/5 elegant/julies you must use the jewellery and weapons. That means no willpower set - a loss of 186 sp on the three piece. You gain 124 sp by duel wielding swords, however you lose the enchant bonus, such as 348sp/5sec. Or whatever you choose to run as this will only proc on melee attacks from swords. We also lose the inherent weapon trait bonuses such as bleed from axes, or armour bypass from maces, etc... elegant pales in comparison to these bonuses and increase in weapon/enchant damage. I have to run a staff to get these ranged and that doesn't allow a 5/5/2 setup

In pvp clever alch. or julies with willpower is more effective as the bonuses are applicable in every circumstance and on every ability. Elegant is situational and only good for maxing dps in specific scenarios.

I can tell you for certain when I DW on my stam sorc i can bounce his wp much much higher than what elegant is giving my mag sorc and I can use it with any attack.

Math time. Lets say for the sake of ease I hit for 10k in pvp with overload - I usually hit in the 6-9k range depending on thebtargets impen and actions.

So we add 20% to that, and add another 20% for major sorc/brutality. For a grand total of 14400k. That's providing the attack hits, and the target isn't wearing impen, blocking etc. It never hits for that in pvp, like ever... OL is not some stupid OP skill that burns everybody down, not even close.

So I'm riding down to some keep on my mag sorc with no shields as the 6 second duration (really about 4 usable) dismounts me on cast, and lurking in the shadows is some stam build with a bow, and he's got a heavy attack qeued up waiting for range (because you can do that on a bow) he fires that off by hitting snipe or poison injection or some such ability. These hit simultaneously along with a third attack about 1 second later. 6-10k on the heavy, sometimes more. About the same for the snipe (I've actually been hit as high as 14k) and then another 3-5k on the final attack. Bye bye sorc, never stood a chance.

I've been downed on my sorc like this countless times, even wearing impen.

This scenario doesnt require a gear set that lowers damage in all other situations.

So when you add up the extra stats, and bonuses available to your gap closer build without having to sacrifice to get to one specific aspect of it, it's evident that an elegant build isn't effective in pvp by comparison.

There's a lot of "the sky is falling" going on in this thread without the benefit of understanding how it all works together.

Nifty2g wrote: »

Reykice wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

credit to @Asayre

Sorc:
Shooting Star: sort of like NB but an average of 80k damage per target due to lower critical modifier. It cost 170 with 12 ult return per target hit. This is 140 ult if 2.5 targets are hit. Again 1.5 Shooting Star equals 1 Warhorn (the Power Stone passive cancels each other out sort of) making it 144k damage per target. I'll call it 288k since 2 targets is easy.

Storm Atro: 170 ult but a poor ult. The Storm Atro doesn't benefit from many caster stats. It does ~7.5k damage of cast and about 3k damage on average for 20-25 seconds. It's a bit derpy and takes a while to start killing stuff. Even with the Major Berserk the average damage is 7.5 (intiail)+ 3k*25 (it's attack)+ 3k*0.25*8 (it's Major Berserk synergy) + 25k*0.25*8 (someone else with Major Berserk) = 139k. Almost the same as Shooting Star hitting 1 target.

Suppression field: 192 ult. 2442 flat magic penetration which is about 5% increased damage for each magicka user you have. Assuming an ideal case of 8 magicka users and say an average DPS of 25k. This ult gives an equivalent of 25k * 0.05 * 8 (magicka user) * 10 (duration) = 100k damage. 1.1 Suppresion fields equals 1 Warhorn so 110k damage. Also not a good ult.

Overload: The difficult one to evaluate. I estimate ~20k DPS out of overload and ~35k DPS when overloading so overloading is worth 15k DPS. It uses about 22 ultimate/second (1 overload/second). 9 overloads equals 1 Warhorn that means ~9 seconds in Overload for a total of 135k DPS. I didn't think it was so much lower than Shooting Star...

Now how much does Major Force from Aggressive Warhorn give? Major Force is multiplicative unlike every other critical modifier buff. Again assuming crit chance of 65% and 0.8 critical modifier for Sorc/DK and 0.9 for Templar/NB, Major Force gives ~10-11% increased damage. Assuming 25k average DPS for 8 DPS, Major Force gives 25k * 0.1 * 8 (number of DPS) * 9.5 (duration) = 196k damage.

Yea but in PvP it 2shots your ass and unlike meteor and etc it can be spammed... i think this is what people are complaining about. 50k - 60k hits in PvE will hurt like hell in PvP and from range... buffing them 20% doesn`t look like the smart move to do.

Yea sure meteor does more damage overall if you can keep him in the spot while the dot runs its course.... over 10 seconds, with no heal no regeneration no shield and so on. As in impossible. While Overload just keeps hitting you over and over unless you dodge every second... and lasts long enough in PvE to kill a vet rank boss so half of that in PvP means a lot of people dead before it runs out.

You don't debuff targets in PvP.... at least I hope I don't see people running around with elemental drain, alkosh, sunderflame etc
so I doubt your overloads will one shot anyone. And also, the projectile is so slow and its easy to see a sorc in overload mode and to be able to counter them... how are you dying?

It's more dangerous to fight a sorc that streaks you as he drops meteor...

Dred76 wrote: »

@TARAFRAKA

How you doin'?

Dred76 wrote: »

@MaxwellCrystal

Let's clarify this a bit.

First things first. Elegant provides 20% to light and heavy attacks. While Overload does indeed qualify as such, what isn't being discussed is the loss of spell damage on every other attack a sorc has and the limiting aspects of running this set.

In order to 5/5 elegant/julies you must use the jewellery and weapons. That means no willpower set - a loss of 186 sp on the three piece. You gain 124 sp by duel wielding swords, however you lose the enchant bonus, such as 348sp/5sec. Or whatever you choose to run as this will only proc on melee attacks from swords. We also lose the inherent weapon trait bonuses such as bleed from axes, or armour bypass from maces, etc... elegant pales in comparison to these bonuses and increase in weapon/enchant damage. I have to run a staff to get these ranged and that doesn't allow a 5/5/2 setup

In pvp clever alch. or julies with willpower is more effective as the bonuses are applicable in every circumstance and on every ability. Elegant is situational and only good for maxing dps in specific scenarios.

I can tell you for certain when I DW on my stam sorc i can bounce his wp much much higher than what elegant is giving my mag sorc and I can use it with any attack.

Math time. Lets say for the sake of ease I hit for 10k in pvp with overload - I usually hit in the 6-9k range depending on thebtargets impen and actions.

So we add 20% to that, and add another 20% for major sorc/brutality. For a grand total of 14400k. That's providing the attack hits, and the target isn't wearing impen, blocking etc. It never hits for that in pvp, like ever... OL is not some stupid OP skill that burns everybody down, not even close.

So I'm riding down to some keep on my mag sorc with no shields as the 6 second duration (really about 4 usable) dismounts me on cast, and lurking in the shadows is some stam build with a bow, and he's got a heavy attack qeued up waiting for range (because you can do that on a bow) he fires that off by hitting snipe or poison injection or some such ability. These hit simultaneously along with a third attack about 1 second later. 6-10k on the heavy, sometimes more. About the same for the snipe (I've actually been hit as high as 14k) and then another 3-5k on the final attack. Bye bye sorc, never stood a chance.

I've been downed on my sorc like this countless times, even wearing impen.

This scenario doesnt require a gear set that lowers damage in all other situations.

So when you add up the extra stats, and bonuses available to your gap closer build without having to sacrifice to get to one specific aspect of it, it's evident that an elegant build isn't effective in pvp by comparison.

There's a lot of "the sky is falling" going on in this thread without the benefit of understanding how it all works together.