Imbalances between PVP and PVE: Monster Helmets and Shoulders

K4RMA · June 2016

PVE no longer drops impen, yet PVP still drops infused/divines.

PVPers get 1 completely random helm OR shoulder per week in impen for AP and divines/infused for gold.

PVEers get 14 chances at getting a shoulder drop (gold and silver/bronze) per week. Next patch, gold keys will ALWAYS drop shoulders, with silver keys often dropping them. So effectively, PVEers will get 7-14 chances at their desired shoulder drop in any trait.

Admittedly PVEers still need to farm for helms, but PVPers get 1 random helm per 2 weeks from the vendor?

How is this balance between PVE and PVP?
PVEers can come to cyrodiil and buy a helm/shoulder they need when it sells for 100k gold in infused/divines respectively if they don't already have it.
PVPers can't come to PVE to farm their gear that the vendor refuses to sell.

Do YOU think the 7-14 chances at shoulders are justified because of the large amount of shoulders and the random traits?
Is it fair that PVEers get to farm their selected helm at their local dungeon and PVPers get to live under the mercy of ZOSE's almighty RNG system? At least PVEers get to farm their helms, while we might get a month of maw of the infernal and spawn of mephala.

mrdaveqc · June 2016

both pve and pvp have the same chance

susmitds · June 2016

What is stopping the so-called "PvPers" from doing PvE dungeons?

Nothing.

redspecter23 · June 2016

PvP'ers can still go farm the helms from the dungeons. Nothing is stopping them. When PvE'ers "only" get a bit of AP in PvE and they "only" get some rewards for the worthy in PvE, then we can talk about PvP'ers "only" getting a small variety of helm/shoulder sets. It's meant to be a bonus, not the only way those items are acquired ever.

SickDuck · June 2016

Gold keys already give shoulders 100%. If you want those sets then you need to run a few dungeons, pretty true. Same like PvE players need to PvP if they want access to essential PvE skills like Vigor or Caltrops. Also there are loads of sets dropping from PvP only so not sure what you want to achieve?

susmitds · June 2016

Some of the best PvE sets also drop from PvP.

K4RMA · June 2016

I mean with Impen no longer dropping in PVE, what's the point of PVP players farming for gear that doesn't make them as strong as they can be. PVE players can go in and buy infused pieces when the vendor brings the pieces they need for 100k gold, but PVP players can't go and grind their monster helms because it no longer drops impen

redspecter23 · June 2016

Lord_Legion wrote: »

I mean with Impen no longer dropping in PVE, what's the point of PVP players farming for gear that doesn't make them as strong as they can be. PVE players can go in and buy infused pieces when the vendor brings the pieces they need for 100k gold, but PVP players can't go and grind their monster helms because it no longer drops impen

That's a different problem than you described in the OP. Perhaps impen should be dropping from bosses and gold key chests. If training and prosperous are, then surely Impen should drop as well. Also, PvE'ers would rather have divines as a best in slot item most of the time. Infused is what they settle for until they can get divines. Just as divines/infused is what a PvP'er will settle for until they get impen... which we both agree should drop in the dungeons and gold key chests. That is the real problem I think.

Dracane · June 2016

Lord_Legion wrote: »

I mean with Impen no longer dropping in PVE, what's the point of PVP players farming for gear that doesn't make them as strong as they can be. PVE players can go in and buy infused pieces when the vendor brings the pieces they need for 100k gold, but PVP players can't go and grind their monster helms because it no longer drops impen

Maybe impen is simply too good and needs adjustments if it is the only wanted choice for pvp ? (according to most people)

Jaronking · June 2016

susmitds wrote: »

What is stopping the so-called "PvPers" from doing PvE dungeons?

Nothing.

Actually a lot they removed Impen from the PVE loot table because mobs don't crit but its very useful in PVP its the go too trait.So their no reason for us to run carrot on the stick content because their no carrot for us to chase until they add impen back to the PVE loot table.For example a Divine or Infused head of molag kena to us its just like getting a training pieces it isn't use able.It actually could be considered a hindrance since it allow you to take more damage.

So that's why PVPers can't farm the dungeons like you guys.It just be a waste of time since you won't get a use able piece out of it.

Bashev · June 2016

Add a daily pvp quest when u finish all 5 daily quest in Cyro u receive a golden key. Problem solved.

SlayerTheDragon · June 2016

susmitds wrote: »

What is stopping the so-called "PvPers" from doing PvE dungeons?

Nothing.

No F that. There is nothing worse than having to waste PVP time to stand spamming "DD LFG Gold/Silver". Just F that.

Wollust · June 2016

susmitds wrote: »

What is stopping the so-called "PvPers" from doing PvE dungeons?

Nothing.

Nothing except for the fact that the PVP trait Impenetrable does not drop in PvE environment anymore.
Don't post if you don't know what you're talking about.

Wollust · June 2016

How can people not understand that the issue is not that we don't want to farm the dungeons but rather that the best trait for PvP simply doesn't drop in those dungeons (and chests) anymore.

I'll farm dungeons like crazy if stuff drops that I need. Without Impen on the loot table, it's pretty obsolete imo though.
But then we have traits like prosperous and training on end game gear. It's like ZoS baths in our misery.

Cherryblossom · June 2016

Wollust wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

What is stopping the so-called "PvPers" from doing PvE dungeons?

Nothing.

Nothing except for the fact that the PVP trait Impenetrable does not drop in PvE environment anymore.
Don't post if you don't know what you're talking about.

Is there a patch note I'm missing, or is it the case you haven't got one so it doesn't drop now?

Wollust · June 2016

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

What is stopping the so-called "PvPers" from doing PvE dungeons?

Nothing.

Nothing except for the fact that the PVP trait Impenetrable does not drop in PvE environment anymore.
Don't post if you don't know what you're talking about.

Is there a patch note I'm missing, or is it the case you haven't got one so it doesn't drop now?

Someone tested it with a few hundred gold keys on the PTS section last PTS cycle (DB) and I think Wrobel confirmed it on an ESO live show or so that Impen is not on the loot table anymore because Mobs don't crit (which is true but still a crap argument).

Wollust · June 2016

Dracane wrote: »

Lord_Legion wrote: »

I mean with Impen no longer dropping in PVE, what's the point of PVP players farming for gear that doesn't make them as strong as they can be. PVE players can go in and buy infused pieces when the vendor brings the pieces they need for 100k gold, but PVP players can't go and grind their monster helms because it no longer drops impen

Maybe impen is simply too good and needs adjustments if it is the only wanted choice for pvp ? (according to most people)

Impen is only good because damage is simply ridiculously high at this point. What would need adjustment is the raw damage numbers we have.
There is a reason why a lot of people call it the burst meta.

redspecter23 · June 2016

Wollust wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

What is stopping the so-called "PvPers" from doing PvE dungeons?

Nothing.

Nothing except for the fact that the PVP trait Impenetrable does not drop in PvE environment anymore.
Don't post if you don't know what you're talking about.

Is there a patch note I'm missing, or is it the case you haven't got one so it doesn't drop now?

Someone tested it with a few hundred gold keys on the PTS section last PTS cycle (DB) and I think Wrobel confirmed it on an ESO live show or so that Impen is not on the loot table anymore because Mobs don't crit (which is true but still a crap argument).

Speaking as a PvE'er, I'd rather have Impen which does absolutely nothing for me than the slap in the face that is Training and Prosperous. Yes, I hope Wrobel reads this and understands how horrible the decision was to include two insulting traits while excluding one that would actually be useful to those that do both PvP and PvE. Instead the decision was made to exclude Impen and drive the wedge between the player types even further. ZoS logic at its finest.

NeillMcAttack · June 2016

If I was to define myself as either a PvP'r or PvE'r, I would prob say I'm a PvP'r. As I can spend more time in Cyrodiil without getting bored than I can chasing RNG before I get depressed.

In reality I am both. Which is why the undaunted chest and bosses need to drop both. Along with the weekly vendor. Why the separation? It seems to only serve to annoy players that enjoy both aspects of the game. The vocal minority on here that strictly play one or the other are really pissing off the players that enjoy both aspects of the game. Seriously, why are you punishing those that play both with narrower opportunities on their desired gear. Just to appease players that confess to not enjoying certain aspects of the game. Screw them, that's not our problem.

And again, remove Prosperous and training from..... everything that is max level. Like WTF??

Mayrael · June 2016

In some old MMOs with beard it was standard that if you wanted PvP gear you did pvp, if you wanted PvE gear you did pve... So since we all know that Impen is for pvp and infused/div for pve lets make it as it was in older titles, PvErs get their sets from bosses (and rly... why in loot tables of sets that are used to min/max are useless traits? I mean if someone wants to grind CPs he dont need to use monster sets and top eq with training trait, crafted gear will be more than enough) and the same if it goes to PvP... The only situation that we are disapointed should be when we get item that we arleady have, not when get item but its not perfect for us, its like drinking alc free beer... Ppl should burn for things like that (no one expects the Spanish Inquisition) ;P

Jaronking · June 2016

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

What is stopping the so-called "PvPers" from doing PvE dungeons?

Nothing.

Nothing except for the fact that the PVP trait Impenetrable does not drop in PvE environment anymore.
Don't post if you don't know what you're talking about.

Is there a patch note I'm missing, or is it the case you haven't got one so it doesn't drop now?

It was said on ESO live that after testing from players on the PTS with hundreds of Keys impen no longer drops from the unduanted chest.They asked why was this the case an he responded because PVE mobs/bosses don't crit so its not needed.I can post the link if you like.

Turelus · June 2016

As I have said in so many other threads.

Remove the PvE/PvP specific bonuses.
Remove BoP from the game.

Open the game up to trade between PvE and PvP players like at launch where there was an exchange of goods and currency between the two communities and less of a divide.
One of the games launch ideals was breaking down the walls between PvE and PvP however now we see development moving in another direction with sets which have exclusive effects within one area.

Van_0S · June 2016

susmitds wrote: »

What is stopping the so-called "PvPers" from doing PvE dungeons?

Nothing.

True!
I do both ,PvE dungeons first and then I go participate in the PvP zerg.

jkolb2030 · June 2016

I dont see a huge issue with the system as it is now, aside from what was mentioned already... PvPers can buy their desired set item with AP or Gold when it's available - OR run dungeons to get the set for the 1/2 piece bonus even if the trait is not desired for long term end game. It holds them over and adds to their build somewhat.

PvE'rs run the dungeons to get their chances at divine sets or they save up their Gold and jump into PvP when their set becomes available if they have no luck during the dungeon grind.

I don't think you should be able to sell monster sets in guild traders, that just seems like a huge economy imbalance waiting to happen. However, I do like that ZoS is adding the ability to trade BoP items within your group - it's the happy median i feel.

The REAL ISSUE is all of these freaking monster sets dropping with training and prosperous traits!! I've gotten 2 engine guardian shoulders with prosperous and a valkyn skoria helm with training.... Completely, and utterly worthless for CP160 gear.

Duiwel · June 2016

Oh OP I am sorry but your argument is so invalid because do you need Impen for PvE? No...

daswahnsinn · June 2016

Okay, so this is imbalanced how? Anyone can go to the vendor and spend gold or AP to get whatever sets are being sold. The only imbalance is the fact that the last couple weeks, maybe more, the vendor has only had infused gear for gold. But it's not as imbalanced as you think, the vendor could have a better racial then you...

Danksta · June 2016

susmitds wrote: »

What is stopping the so-called "PvPers" from doing PvE dungeons?

Nothing.

Except the fact that they have zero chance of getting the most ideal trait. I guess it doesn't stop them, it just makes it less desirable.

bowmanz607 · June 2016

Lord_Legion wrote: »

I mean with Impen no longer dropping in PVE, what's the point of PVP players farming for gear that doesn't make them as strong as they can be. PVE players can go in and buy infused pieces when the vendor brings the pieces they need for 100k gold, but PVP players can't go and grind their monster helms because it no longer drops impen

Your don't have to run 7pc impen. I usually run 5pc with reduced critical damage and get rougly 2k critical resist. In fact with the changes to other traits I find it more beneficial depending on my build to run 2 other traits.

bowmanz607 · June 2016

Everyone stop with the we need 7pc impen in PVP nonsense. Yes impen should drop in pve. Does not make sense to exclude a trait. However, it is not necessary to run 7pc impen to be viable. Especially with champ points In critical resist. I would rather run a 2pc Kenai for instance with infused than not run it at all because it is not impen. You still maintain great critical resist without 7pc impen and can utilize the aforementioned kena. It is Ludacris to think otherwise. Again, impen should drop. I am not debating that. But to say you don't want the strong helms and shoulders because there is no impen is crazy. Not to mention a trait that reduces dodge roll or block cost is pretty solid for PVP no matter your build.

susmitds · June 2016

Wollust wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

What is stopping the so-called "PvPers" from doing PvE dungeons?

Nothing.

Nothing except for the fact that the PVP trait Impenetrable does not drop in PvE environment anymore.
Don't post if you don't know what you're talking about.

What's stopping you from using Well-Fitted? You may assume that all Impen is the way to go but I can guarantee you that unless you have at least 2 Well-Fitted you are seriously gimping your build.

Jaronking · June 2016

susmitds wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

What is stopping the so-called "PvPers" from doing PvE dungeons?

Nothing.

Nothing except for the fact that the PVP trait Impenetrable does not drop in PvE environment anymore.
Don't post if you don't know what you're talking about.

What's stopping you from using Well-Fitted? You may assume that all Impen is the way to go but I can guarantee you that unless you have at least 2 Well-Fitted you are seriously gimping your build.

False you need at least 3 well fitted to get the same Dodge roll cost before the increase.So its really not that big of a difference running 0 and running 2.Also if you can time your dodge and manage your stamina well you don't need 2 pieces of well fitted at all.