ESO+ VS Free user

Vangy · June 2016

petraeus1 wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

I dont get it.

1. Dyes were clearly only for gear. No indication was ever given to us that costumes could be dyed. We earned these dyes and as a result, can dye our gear any colour we like.

2. We bought costumes which had a preview fully knowing that no dyeing option was around. Infact, costume dyeing was something Zenimax announced recently. I bought costumes knowing full and well that dyeing might never ever come out and that Id be stuck with that costume colour.

So now, that ZOS is OFFERING people the choice to buy dyes, and giving it out to ESO+ for free, people arent happy? You earned dyes for gear. They were never supposed to be usable for costumes. You paid for the costume u have. You didnt pay for any color changes?

This is insanity..... You already have what you paid for and what you earned. This new feature of dyeing costumes is just that. A new feature. Why do you think you should be auto entitled to these features?

Even the "dye station" help screen in ESO clearly lists that dye stations are for applying dyes "to your armour". Not for anything else. That is what you unlocked in game. Not the ability to dye whatever you want anything you like. Ya'll should be thankful that ZOS lets us dye our shields and weapons (in the future) without paying crowns lol.

I agree, but I do see the downsides. I perceived costume dyeing as a system to encourage people to buy more costumes. I held off on buying costumes to see this system first. I am a B2P player. Now that I know that to dye my bought costumes I'll have to double dip in to my wallet, I won't buy any costumes. Costumes are already quite expensive at 700 up to a 1000 Crowns.

I don't think it was unreasonable to assume that the current dye system would be extended to incorporate costumes. That is what they did with shields after all. I also think there will be casual players who will reasonably assume so only to find out dyeing costumes requires extra payment, after they already bought their new costumes.

I don't feel like I deserve free costume dyeing, but I don't think this is the best way for ZOS to go around it either.

My solution: when buying a costume from the Crown Store, give players a one-time use only token to change the colours of a costume. Keep the rest as is. ESO+ keep their new perk of dyeing whenever whatever, the rest have to buy stamps if they wanna dye it again. I think that would encourage much more players to buy costumes and sooth the unhappiness.

Edit: I also disagree with the general sentiment that players should be happy with ZOS developing anything at all and not charging Crowns for it. While I agree with battleing entitlement, I surely wouldn't want to encourage ZOS to monetize every inch of continued development this game receives, nor do I see why anyone else would want that. Nor do I understand why anyone here is concerned with ZOS' income. ZOS is doing fine financially, I'm sure. I don't understand why pleas to make cosmetic options more widely available are a bad thing.

One could argue the B2P crowd is entitled for wanting access to this feature without subbing, but the same could be said of the P2P crowd who wants this feature to remain an ESO+ perk (which they didn't know it would be 5 days ago), simply because their spending habits in terms of ESO are regular and monthly. Silliest discussion ever.

I would totally be okay with the one time use token on buying of costumes idea. That sounds very reasonable. I mean if you are paying for the costume, you should at least be able to choose the color you want at least once. I dont fancy locking every little thing behind ESO+ cos that would mean a good portion of the player base will get alienated and leave meaning ESO will die out... But I do sometimes find some of their demands a little bit dramatic.... Like you said tho, there's people on both sides being all drama queen about it.

Pomaikai · June 2016

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

schip wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

No we're not just "twiddling our thumbs", we're being rewarded like every other membership perk program offered by businesses in the world, for being subscribers and giving them extra money. We're PAYING for our perks. You want the perks? Then pay for it like we do!

i am paying for the game and giving them extra money for dlc's and crowns, what's your point

No, you PAID for those things. One time only. I pay monthly. There is a difference. Especially to banks when they go to them for more money. What's YOUR point?

You pay for crowns!!! Thats it so whats the difference to you buying $15 crowns a month then my buying $60 worth of crowns bi-monthly? Nothing get that elitism act out of here. You know not everyone is old enough for a CC or their parents dont approve right? Subbing does nothing more than a full time crown buyer. I cancelled mine for a reason. ESO+ players are just getting annoying now. Feeling entitled and special asking for insane amount of unfair excuses to name a few. Queue priority,Motifs, Crafting sets at any station. Just play the game. You guys just think of yourselves not thinking in others shoes sho want to play the game and still have to worry about the $60 yearly fee for their online playing (Consoles), their family or mortgage and play eso for fun but gets screwed over from featues that should have been in from the start. You wouldn't know about this though huh?

/Rant @Pomaikai

I know not all eso+ players are like this just didnt feel like typing it every sentence

Cry me a river.

The sense of entitlement in this thread is overwhelming.

PS... L2B (Learn2Business) I think you need some serious education on how business works. How banks value a company before providing loans, which occurs all the time in large corporations. Quite frankly, many people who post here do. I mean god forbid that a company be in business for the purpose of making money... Seriously?

Burning_Talons · June 2016

Pomaikai wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

schip wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

No we're not just "twiddling our thumbs", we're being rewarded like every other membership perk program offered by businesses in the world, for being subscribers and giving them extra money. We're PAYING for our perks. You want the perks? Then pay for it like we do!

i am paying for the game and giving them extra money for dlc's and crowns, what's your point

No, you PAID for those things. One time only. I pay monthly. There is a difference. Especially to banks when they go to them for more money. What's YOUR point?

You pay for crowns!!! Thats it so whats the difference to you buying $15 crowns a month then my buying $60 worth of crowns bi-monthly? Nothing get that elitism act out of here. You know not everyone is old enough for a CC or their parents dont approve right? Subbing does nothing more than a full time crown buyer. I cancelled mine for a reason. ESO+ players are just getting annoying now. Feeling entitled and special asking for insane amount of unfair excuses to name a few. Queue priority,Motifs, Crafting sets at any station. Just play the game. You guys just think of yourselves not thinking in others shoes sho want to play the game and still have to worry about the $60 yearly fee for their online playing (Consoles), their family or mortgage and play eso for fun but gets screwed over from featues that should have been in from the start. You wouldn't know about this though huh?

/Rant @Pomaikai

I know not all eso+ players are like this just didnt feel like typing it every sentence

Cry me a river.

The sense of entitlement in this thread is overwhelming.

PS... L2B (Learn2Business) I think you need some serious education on how business works. How banks value a company before providing loans, which occurs all the time in large corporations. Quite frankly, many people who post here do. I mean god forbid that a company be in business for the purpose of making money... Seriously?

@Pomaikai Maybe you should look up the word entitlement because you are the entitled one. "OH i should get special stuff because I pay for it" when in reality you are only paying the price of 1500 crowns

Burning_Talons · June 2016

Vangy wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

schip wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

No we're not just "twiddling our thumbs", we're being rewarded like every other membership perk program offered by businesses in the world, for being subscribers and giving them extra money. We're PAYING for our perks. You want the perks? Then pay for it like we do!

i am paying for the game and giving them extra money for dlc's and crowns, what's your point

No, you PAID for those things. One time only. I pay monthly. There is a difference. Especially to banks when they go to them for more money. What's YOUR point?

You pay for crowns!!! Thats it so whats the difference to you buying $15 crowns a month then my buying $60 worth of crowns bi-monthly? Nothing get that elitism act out of here. You know not everyone is old enough for a CC or their parents dont approve right? Subbing does nothing more than a full time crown buyer. I cancelled mine for a reason. ESO+ players are just getting annoying now. Feeling entitled and special asking for insane amount of unfair excuses to name a few. Queue priority,Motifs, Crafting sets at any station. Just play the game. You guys just think of yourselves not thinking in others shoes sho want to play the game and still have to worry about the $60 yearly fee for their online playing (Consoles), their family or mortgage and play eso for fun but gets screwed over from featues that should have been in from the start. You wouldn't know about this though huh?

/Rant @Pomaikai

I know not all eso+ players are like this just didnt feel like typing it every sentence

@Burning_Talons
? Wait im an ESO+ subscriber and your telling me im paying 15 bucks for 1500 crowns? Until crafting bags came out, I always thought ESO+ was one of the worlds biggest ripoffs. Crown sales offer 5500 crowns at 20 bucks. Even for non-sale 5500 crowns is like 39.99..... The 10% bonus to jack-all is kinda worth nothing..... Id save 50% money or more by just stocking up on crown sales and getting DLC's + a mount or costume every now and then while still having crowns to spare. And I'd own all the DLC's too.

I will say some of the subscribers have insane demands like you pointed out. But so far, craft bags and dyeing of costumes, im fine with it being only for ESO+. There needs to be some benefit to being shafted for *** tons more money every month for that wee little bit of crowns.

@Vangy I was just stating that eso plus is just the price of 1500crowns when people whonarwnt eso plus spend more than that monthly so the saying "Im helping out more with my monthly $15" isnt always true unless you are buying crowns on top of that which i dont see alot of eso+ users do

Evergnar · June 2016

The dye stamps are a joke and Zos already said none of the rare colors earned in game will be offered as stamps in the crown store. There is no practical costume dyeing w/o subbing.

All Zos needed to do was offer one time use tokens in the crown store. That would have been perfectly acceptable to the majority of players. ESO+ members would still have the benefit of changing their costume color as often as they like.

JamilaRaj · June 2016

Pomaikai wrote: »

PS... L2B (Learn2Business) I think you need some serious education on how business works. How banks value a company before providing loans, which occurs all the time in large corporations. Quite frankly, many people who post here do. I mean god forbid that a company be in business for the purpose of making money... Seriously?

Actually, yes. I would prefer a company to be in business for the purpose of producing a product, which would imply some making of money too, because a company could not very well produce a product if it went under, but if it is in business for the purpose, the first and foremost, of making money, then eventual product is, by definition, mere by-product, at best, because companies may succeed to the point of essentially just shovelling money from one pile to another (with some operating costs) without ever producing anything of use or value, and as a by-product, it is bound to be a crap.
Simply put, if this is a company's ethos:

https://youtu.be/km0_vOE_2XE

...a crap product is inevitable.

Pomaikai · June 2016

Are people buying said products? If yes, then it's a good product. You might not like it, but it sells and makes them a great profit. Without that magic P-Word, PROFIT, they go out of business. I mean this isn't rocket surgery or brain science, people.

And again, for the very very last time, banks look at recurring income differently than one time income when it comes to company valuation for loans. It doesn't matter if YOU think they're the same. All that matters is that the BANK thinks they're VERY different.

kasain · June 2016

If housing is instanced, I can see it free to all. If its real world, be prepared for sub only.

And before you cry keep in mind ffxiv. Many prople bought ots, built houses, quit game. Now they cant be demod til recently.

Archeage, weekly tax, but this points out, housing in open world requires resources to be usrd on eso side. And if not again people wouldbuild house quit, tbrn new player would lose chance to own land.

So I support eso plus for this.

purple-magicb16_ESO · June 2016

If there was little to no diff between eso+ and free, no one would sub. I guarantee you I would unsub the same day free got the same perks as eso+.

Neirymn · June 2016

It is funny to see some comments with caps or sentences made bolder and some people writing "Period" a lot, that doesn't make what you're saying more valid than someone else.

Cously · June 2016

ZOS need money or else game shut down. Pay it or leave / watch the game die / shut up. If you can't care less on spending $15 monthly on ZOS because you have other priorities (whichever they are), you shouldn't be a priority either. ESO is nowhere near pay to win, try games like Perfect World or Wonderland Online where you have to spend $1,000 to get GEAR to even be relevant, ZOS is just capitalizing on dyes, appearances and cosmetic *** that makes no difference in PVE or PVP. I hate to break it for you, but in the real world you can't have the cake and eat it too. I or ZOS can't care less about your college, just go study and get a profession and get more money to spend on hobbies.

Pomaikai · June 2016

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

schip wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

No we're not just "twiddling our thumbs", we're being rewarded like every other membership perk program offered by businesses in the world, for being subscribers and giving them extra money. We're PAYING for our perks. You want the perks? Then pay for it like we do!

i am paying for the game and giving them extra money for dlc's and crowns, what's your point

No, you PAID for those things. One time only. I pay monthly. There is a difference. Especially to banks when they go to them for more money. What's YOUR point?

You pay for crowns!!! Thats it so whats the difference to you buying $15 crowns a month then my buying $60 worth of crowns bi-monthly? Nothing get that elitism act out of here. You know not everyone is old enough for a CC or their parents dont approve right? Subbing does nothing more than a full time crown buyer. I cancelled mine for a reason. ESO+ players are just getting annoying now. Feeling entitled and special asking for insane amount of unfair excuses to name a few. Queue priority,Motifs, Crafting sets at any station. Just play the game. You guys just think of yourselves not thinking in others shoes sho want to play the game and still have to worry about the $60 yearly fee for their online playing (Consoles), their family or mortgage and play eso for fun but gets screwed over from featues that should have been in from the start. You wouldn't know about this though huh?

/Rant @Pomaikai

I know not all eso+ players are like this just didnt feel like typing it every sentence

Cry me a river.

The sense of entitlement in this thread is overwhelming.

PS... L2B (Learn2Business) I think you need some serious education on how business works. How banks value a company before providing loans, which occurs all the time in large corporations. Quite frankly, many people who post here do. I mean god forbid that a company be in business for the purpose of making money... Seriously?

@Pomaikai Maybe you should look up the word entitlement because you are the entitled one. "OH i should get special stuff because I pay for it" when in reality you are only paying the price of 1500 crowns

LOL That's not entitlement. That's commerce. I am PAYING for my stuff, rather than whining because I don't get it handed to me.

idk · June 2016

For history sake, When Zos announced the chsnge to their business model they informed us all existing content at that point would be part of the base game and all new content would be locked behind a pay wall/DLC.

Zos has every right to be able to make business decisions and place some things behind the subscription wall. They have every reason to encourage subscriptions especially when those choices do not impact the actual playability of ones character.

nimander99 · June 2016

Arrrgggghhh Dreaded wall 'o text!

TL;DR Zenimax is showing a pattern of acting like a business and trying to generate profits to employ citizen's of several countries...

Vangy · June 2016

@Burning_Talons ;

I get what you are trying to say. But let's consider a few things.

1500 crowns --> 15 bucks = $ 0.01/crown
5500 crowns --> 40 bucks = $ (2/275) /crown
0.01/(2/275) = approx 1.4 times.

So im paying 40% more every time I pay for that 1.5 crown pack which isnt even enuf to get a DLC. Yeah there are other things to consider like the 10% bonus to exp, gold etc + the access to the DLC packages while subbed that ESO+ gets... But imo before the crafting bag came to ESO+, it would be faaaaaar cheaper to just get 5500 crown packs DURING sales and just outright buy the DLCs.

Like 5500 crowns for 20 bucks is outrageous value. 1500 crowns for 15 bucks is 275% more expensive. Are the ESO+ benefits worth 275% more money? Even with crafting bags id say its a stretch. At least now I feel satisfied im getting something out of ESO+ cos non-subs dont get craft bags.

I do not however, want every little thing to be locked behind subs. Im fine if its just crafting bags and nothing else. I just want a little something to justify my subscription. Like ive explained above, id just drop sub cos its a lot cheaper if ESO+ gets nothing more than 10% bonus + access to DLC's WHILE subbed..... Its just not worth it. Infact, it would be stupid to sub unless you are the type that spends crowns on much much more than just DLCs. Even then, its far cheaper to stock up during sales and spend them over the year.... 275% cheaper......

Molag_Crow · June 2016

I understand your concern, OP. I too hope that ZOS never become Pay To Win, but I am confident that they won't. I played -a game- for a few months which I learned to love and as soon as the company started to go the pay to win route, I quit. This game can't afford to go down that path anyway, it's not like it's WoW with millions of players.

SteveCampsOut · June 2016

Minute_Waltz wrote: »

ESO+ can dye their costumes to something they really like and therefore boosting their ingame concentration level given that they will stare harder at their toon, as a result higher dps is achieved due to higher concentration. Thats pay to win in my books

SteveCampsOut · June 2016

Burning_Talons wrote: »

@Vangy I was just stating that eso plus is just the price of 1500crowns when people whonarwnt eso plus spend more than that monthly so the saying "Im helping out more with my monthly $15" isnt always true unless you are buying crowns on top of that which i dont see alot of eso+ users do

You don't SEE what we do and have no clue how many crowns I've bought on top of my Subscription!

Agalloch · June 2016

ESO must remain buy to play ..but ZOS must give content and perks for the players with no subscription too. Also mini dlc at 1500 crowns each...( the same amount of crowns u receive for subbing.)....hmmm

There are other buy to play games from ZOS should inspire :

Look at Diablo 3 ..besides the expansion all the content is free ..

Look at Gw2 ..besides the expansion..all the content is free or buyable with gems that can be acquired also with in game gold. Also in GW2 completing achievements can reward u with gems.

I hope ESO will not become a sub game again. They should put crafting bag in crown store too.

They can make money with crown store and by offering a game with no bugs, and with no major problems unsolved since 2 years ago.
A quality product will attract more people and more money...

English is not my native language.

kongkim · June 2016

I WIN.. i can paint my costumes

thisisScoMan · June 2016

"Suddenly, free users crested that hill over there."
"ESO subscribers, we surrender unconditionally! We're carrying our crafting mats! Our costumes are bland and boring!"
"But the Subscribers were too brave to accept their surrender."
"Come on, boys! Those standard costumers are no match for our technicoloured dreamcoats! Charge! "
"And the Subscribers heroically slaughtered their enemies as they prayed for mercy."

GamerNoob16 · June 2016

frateanu.luiseb17_ESO wrote: »

ESO must remain buy to play ..but ZOS must give content and perks for the players with no subscription too. Also mini dlc at 1500 crowns each...( the same amount of crowns u receive for subbing.)....hmmm

There are other buy to play games from ZOS should inspire :

Look at Diablo 3 ..besides the expansion all the content is free ..

Look at Gw2 ..besides the expansion..all the content is free or buyable with gems that can be acquired also with in game gold. Also in GW2 completing achievements can reward u with gems.

I hope ESO will not become a sub game again. They should put crafting bag in crown store too.

They can make money with crown store and by offering a game with no bugs, and with no major problems unsolved since 2 years ago.
A quality product will attract more people and more money...

English is not my native language.

Completely agree with you.

Transairion · June 2016

Im going to assume you werent here before console launch because it was pretty obvious then that the reason they were doing this was because of Consoles paying a sub for their access to online modes for their games with Microsoft and Sony. Thats why this game went B2P.

Was here before (shortly after launch, played 2 months and quit of boredom), and it wasn't obvious or the only reason at all. ESO really wasn't all that popular, AND it was sub only so it was pretty much a failure as a MMO. Porting to consoles was a desperate measure to actually sell the game, since it sure didn't do well on PC. Microsoft/Sony was a factor, sure, but don't write off going Buy to Play as all their fault.

Look at all the other MMO's, look at those (like SWTOR) which went F2P after 1.5-2 years (TWICE AS LONG AS ESO): notice what they've got in common? Introducing the Cash Shop. Notice how the game suddeny became some big thriving community (supposedly) and EA/Zeni boasts about their profits?

It's sure as hell not due to the people who still subscribe, people pay out of the nose for cosmetic Crown Store items. "Dropping the subscription for consoles" also seems totally meaningless, since by my understanding you can STILL subscribe while on consoles anyway.

The original sub-only ESO wasn't worth paying monthly for, so I quit. Current ESO isn't worth paying for monthly, so I don't subscribe. That's just me, and is that a problem? It shouldn't be, save the "OMG get out of my game you cheap slob!" ESO+ elitists around. I've sung Zenimax's praises for having a good Buy to Play system until now, and that's only changed because it seems like they want to start monetizing "content" that should be basic Quality of Life features.

It sure didn't take months of hard research to add Costumes to the Dye System, so it shouldn't be treated as such. The main reason it's being monetized is so Zenimax doesn't lose out on the non-ESO+ members buying Crown Store outfits that looks nearly the same, but are just different colors.

If you could dye pets/mounts, probably half the Crown Store options would disappear. That's never gonna happen (just an example).