Let's Talk About... Housing

DaniAngione · June 2016

I must say I am both very happy and very sad with the little bit of information we got on Housing with the newest update on PTS.

This is the relevant part on the Patch Notes:

World Building
A few new buildings were added to several zones, and the zone maps were updated accordingly. These buildings are not accessible at this time. In some of these locations, wildlife, and/or bystanders were removed or adjusted to make way for the new construction. In addition, some residents have been moved from their homes, and those buildings are no longer accessible. These changes are in preparation for the upcoming release of Player Housing.

And this is an interesting thread with all the information and screenshots people are gathering.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/275343/spot-the-difference-construction-in-tamriel-thread/p1

Alright. That said, let's get to the point. First a few notes:

Yes, I'm aware Housing is far away from us still. But I think they're clearly working on it, it seems, and the sooner we give our input, the most probable some things are going to change or work as we'd love to see them work
Yes, this is just my opinion
And yes, I know I'm mostly assuming things - but I'm assuming them from the info we have already.

In my own experience, I'd say there are "3" main types of Housing in MMOs. There are several more, yes, but I'll make a generalisation for the sake of the explanation.
I'll call them "Instanced Housing", "Instanced Neighborhoods" and "Sandbox Housing"

So, what's the whole point of this thread:
I'm happy that we are getting HOUSING, I'm disappointed that we are apparently getting Instanced Housing and not INSTANCED NEIGHBORHOODS.

This is the whole point of this thread. I know that with the new additions it's very UNLIKELY that there's still time to change the design... But one can only dream - and that's the purpose of this thread - to dream about Instanced Neighborhoods.
If you kind of understand the difference between the 3 types I pointed out, you can stop reading here.
If not, I'll try to explain the basic difference between the 3 types below:

INSTANCED HOUSING

This is what appears to be ESO's model. Several houses around the world can be bought, acquired by quests, etc... Whatever. Point is - once you get a house, you can enter your very own "private" version of it - your own instance. The outside is a normal game region, so it's shared by everyone else, including other people that own that same house. Which means you'll see a lot of movement by your door - people getting in and out - but when YOU go in, it's your private little space.

The Pro:
It works. It's safe and stable. You can visit friends or be visited using party mechanics (probably) like... when two people own the same house, you can visit your friend's if he's group leader. Just an example - point is: it works.

The Con:
It feels kind of lonely. No sense of attachment to the outside whatsoever, the interior feels like your very own Oblivion realm, away from reality and the universe, while the exterior will be a crowded place full of strangers. Not really immersive.

INSTANCED NEIGHBORHOODS

Here's where the cookie gets tasty. Instanced Neighborhoods are almost like Instanced Housing. The catch is - instead of having your own private INTERIOR instance with the exterior being part of the normal world, you get an INSTANCED AREA with several houses - your "neighborhood" and each house can be privately owned by someone. Functionally, it's pretty much the same as instanced housing, with 2 key differences: 1- Your house is your own, you won't see other people going in and out of it because the other people that own that same house, own it in different neighborhoods (instances)
2- There's a greater sense of belonging and community. Neighborhoods have the same fixed residents (unless someone moves, etc.) and so you get to meet these people, hold events with them, visit them, etc. You can actually "see" your neighbors and they're always the same people - not a shared with everyone exterior like houses in the game world. This also provides a lot more of variety for houses and locations.

How it works: Imagine a gate in the outskirts of some region. Deshaan, for example. When you get to that gate, it asks you "Which Neighborhood would you like to go to?" and then you get a list of neighborhoods - the server generates more as they fill up. They have random yet lore-friendly names. So you actually get an address: You can live on House 5 of the East Overlook in Deshaan's Vivec's Blessing neighborhood (for example) and people can physically get to your house - your very own house - and not a random building everyone owns.

The Pro:
Basically the same functionalities as Instanced Housing + Communities, community events, and all that. Greater sense of belonging to the world. Far more immersive. Neighborhood content is possible: events, mini-games, vendors, collective projects (like upgradeable market squares which players from the same neighborhood can improve), etc... anything is possible.

The Con:
Far more work is required from ZOS. :P Some people might have trouble memorizing their address?

SANDBOX HOUSING

I'll keep this short because it's not really relevant for this thread. It's when the game allows you to build or place your very own house within the actual game world. Not an instance, nothing - the actual game world.

This is impossible for ESO. Not only it was not built for that (there's literally no room) but also because the game has not enough sandbox elements to justify this kind of housing (like farming, etc...) It's really cool for games built with this purpose - but not really good for ESO, as tempting as it may be to ask for it, there's simply no way to make it work nice here. Unless, perhaps, one day, we get new, huge regions JUST FOR THAT. But that's a whole different story

Examples
I can name two games which have awesome Neighborhood Housing systems. Regardless of their requirements (pay walls and such), both LOTRO's and Final Fantasy XIV's Housing system are awesome and based on neighborhoods.

It adds so much depth and flavour to housing, allows you to meet new people (or conquer whole neighborhoods with your friends!) and stuff like that - not to mention Guild Halls, garden decoration, community parties and building your own home on your plot (FFXIV)

So, if you're curious about how fun Neighborhood Housing is, google/go to youtube for these two housing systems!

... Please, ZOS, reconsider the design if you're just aiming to regular instanced houses. I promise you there's a lot more of potential (and profit!) for Instanced Neighborhoods!

Rohamad_Ali · June 2016

I like sandbox housing and build your own cities best but that's probably impossible here .

ItsGlaive · June 2016

There's another big con to instanced neighbourhoods - when the initial excitement wears off, they become virtual ghost towns, ala LOTRO. I'm thrilled they haven't gone this route. They're usually off in the middle of nowhere, and empty as hell, making housing feel like a random bolt-on with very little activity.

There is a fourth option btw - phased housing. The houses are 'in the world' like with instanced housing, except visible areas (gardens for instanced) are phased so that you can see group or guild members 'in the world' too.

Eshelmen · June 2016

Xabien wrote: »

There's another big con to instanced neighbourhoods - when the initial excitement wears off, they become virtual ghost towns, ala LOTRO. I'm thrilled they haven't gone this route. They're usually off in the middle of nowhere, and empty as hell, making housing feel like a random bolt-on with very little activity.

There is a fourth option btw - phased housing. The houses are 'in the world' like with instanced housing, except visible areas (gardens for instanced) are phased so that you can see group or guild members 'in the world' too.

They would only become "Ghost Towns" if you have nothing important to do or have ar your house.

In FFXIV, The Auction house (Merchant Board) is basically only a few seconds to a minutes walk away. Guiild Halls were usually the centerpoint for those who lived in their own houses around it. Guilds would build their Guild Hall and guildies would purchase available plots around it and move in. It was awesome.
The traffic becomes pretty steady at this point because typically everything is with in arms reach of you. You've got your guild hall, full of merchants and crafting tools(anvil, cloth station etc.) as well as the trader system right around the corner.
It becomes convenient for all players in the guild and not just the ones living next to the guild hall.
My guild in FFXIV made it the hang out spot, for anything. Crafting, selling and buying, the place to be when in queue for a dungeon, etc....

With many 500 player guilds in ESO, I highly doubt we'd see a ghost town, if it's done correctly.

ItsGlaive · June 2016

Eshelmen wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

There's another big con to instanced neighbourhoods - when the initial excitement wears off, they become virtual ghost towns, ala LOTRO. I'm thrilled they haven't gone this route. They're usually off in the middle of nowhere, and empty as hell, making housing feel like a random bolt-on with very little activity.

There is a fourth option btw - phased housing. The houses are 'in the world' like with instanced housing, except visible areas (gardens for instanced) are phased so that you can see group or guild members 'in the world' too.

They would only become "Ghost Towns" if you have nothing important to do or have ar your house.

In FFXIV, The Auction house (Merchant Board) is basically only a few seconds to a minutes walk away. Guiild houses were usually the centerpoint for those who lived in their own houses around it. Guilds would build their Guild Hall and then move in around it.
The traffic becomes pretty steady at this point because typically everything is with in arms reach of you. You've got your guild hall, full of merchants and crafting tools(anvil, cloth station etc.) as well as the trader system right around the corner.
It becomes convenient for all players in the guild and not just the ones living next to the guild hall.
My guild in FFXIV made it the hang out spot, for anything. Crafting, selling and buying, the place to be when in queue for a dungeon, etc....

With many 500 player guilds in ESO, I highly doubt we'd see a ghost town, if it's done correctly.

in which case it is the world that becomes the ghost town, and equally important reason for keeping houses in central locations and not separating them from the living virtual world ZOS is creating.

Eshelmen · June 2016

Xabien wrote: »

Eshelmen wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

There's another big con to instanced neighbourhoods - when the initial excitement wears off, they become virtual ghost towns, ala LOTRO. I'm thrilled they haven't gone this route. They're usually off in the middle of nowhere, and empty as hell, making housing feel like a random bolt-on with very little activity.

There is a fourth option btw - phased housing. The houses are 'in the world' like with instanced housing, except visible areas (gardens for instanced) are phased so that you can see group or guild members 'in the world' too.

They would only become "Ghost Towns" if you have nothing important to do or have ar your house.

In FFXIV, The Auction house (Merchant Board) is basically only a few seconds to a minutes walk away. Guiild houses were usually the centerpoint for those who lived in their own houses around it. Guilds would build their Guild Hall and then move in around it.
The traffic becomes pretty steady at this point because typically everything is with in arms reach of you. You've got your guild hall, full of merchants and crafting tools(anvil, cloth station etc.) as well as the trader system right around the corner.
It becomes convenient for all players in the guild and not just the ones living next to the guild hall.
My guild in FFXIV made it the hang out spot, for anything. Crafting, selling and buying, the place to be when in queue for a dungeon, etc....

With many 500 player guilds in ESO, I highly doubt we'd see a ghost town, if it's done correctly.

in which case it is the world that becomes the ghost town, and equally important reason for keeping houses in central locations and not separating them from the living virtual world ZOS is creating.

I think you're underestimating it with out actually understanding how it all actually worked.
Guild halls and player houses aren't meant for you to do everything in the game. It's certainly not the case with FFXIV when these player built communties were implemented.

You can't PVP there, you can't complete zone quests there, you can't loot the item you've been searching for there. You have to go and explore/complete the story/zone/dungeon/raids as you originally were. Only now, instead of having to go to a random town for your banking/ crafting needs, which are all scattered over Tamriel in each city/location, you can conveniently go to your house area where practically all the basics are located. And with Tamriel One around the corner, I highly doubt any zone will feel empty.

For me personally, I've grouped up with more players that were in my own guild than random players on some random city street, don't you? So having less population in a town means practically nothing to me.
We're allowed up to 5 guilds and if this isn't the main way someone acquires group activities, I strongly recommend doing so.

The reason to go to orsinium, the rift and all other locations would still remain and thus you will still see populated areas outside of housing areas.

Let's also not forget that in FFXIV , player houses and guild halls weren't easily obtained either. Houses and Guild halls were the most expensive in game items.
Imagine a tempering alloy at $12k and house upwards of $3-$5 million. The difference between gearing up and player housing is huge.
But seeing as housing in FFXIV was about luxury over necessity, it became a nice piece of content to have. I consider it a type of end game content. For all of us that have worked hard and put a ton of time in to the game, we can now buy a house! Sweet!

Not every player can afford it, because either they didn't care for it or because they simply haven't been playing long enough to save up for it.

Oh yeah and last but not least, one house per account was the max. This limits the insanely rich playera to having the same available houses as everyone else.

Blackbird_V · June 2016

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Giff Neighbourhoods. Honestly, that'd be amazing. Also allow people in groups to enter the group leader's house would be cool, allowing it to be somewhat open.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam · June 2016

I'd really like instances neighbourhoods.

Owning your own house will get lonely and boring, and likely not go back often.

Neighbourhoods would be cool especially if there was some activities.

Gambling/ betting, fist fights, tavern activities, brothel (not gunna happen), racing of some kind, dueling (also against same alliance), contests of some kind - fashion etc, much more could be done but that's just a few ideas.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam · June 2016

Forgot to add potentially on gardening - grow your own alchemy ingredients. Alchemy is the only crafting line which doesn't have hirelings....

JMadFour · June 2016

I too, was disappointed by the indication that we will NOT be getting Instanced Neighborhoods, only Instanced Interiors of the same shared houses.

Publius_Scipio · June 2016

Let's get the Property Brothers involved.

Glyntt · June 2016

I can't imagine how instanced neighborhoods would work. Can you move if you don't like your neighbors? What if all your neighbors quit playing?

The best case scenario for what you're describing, though likely still impossible, would be to allow all guild members access to some communal area - a guild hall - but your actual home (or room, or floor) would have to be instanced housing. You may sleep alone, but at least when you step outside, you might see people from your guild banking & crafting.

I'm not that picky. Give me an instanced Skyrim Riften house or Whiterun house and I'll be fine. I'll be happy just to have a spot to display a suit of armor or special weapons on the walls.

My wish list would be: I want to sit in a chair near the fire. Cook in my kitchen. And maybe lay in my bed. If that's not too much to ask.

MrPoolaty · June 2016

DaniAngione wrote: »

yes, but I'll make a generalisation for the sake of the explanation.

Totally sounds like a mixed quote from from Abe Lincoln and George Washington...

Blackbird_V · June 2016

Glyntt wrote: »

I can't imagine how instanced neighborhoods would work. Can you move if you don't like your neighbors? What if all your neighbors quit playing?

Deleted

Nvm. I really should go bed..

ComboBreaker88 · June 2016

Glyntt wrote: »

I can't imagine how instanced neighborhoods would work. Can you move if you don't like your neighbors? What if all your neighbors quit playing?

The best case scenario for what you're describing, though likely still impossible, would be to allow all guild members access to some communal area - a guild hall - but your actual home (or room, or floor) would have to be instanced housing. You may sleep alone, but at least when you step outside, you might see people from your guild banking & crafting.

I'm not that picky. Give me an instanced Skyrim Riften house or Whiterun house and I'll be fine. I'll be happy just to have a spot to display a suit of armor or special weapons on the walls.

My wish list would be: I want to sit in a chair near the fire. Cook in my kitchen. And maybe lay in my bed. If that's not too much to ask.

Instanced neighborhoods would easily work if housing degraded and had upkeep. Like a real house, if you don't take care or it it starts falling apart and the bank forecloses on it and a new owner can then buy the property. All the stuff inside would then be put in "escrow" and mailed back to the orginal owner OR sold to the highest bidder in a blind auction. - which would add so much more to the game btw

ComboBreaker88 · June 2016

But seriously if it's instanced housing I am cancellong my sub aND moving on to another game. I've played mmo's with instanced housing before. After the hype wears off it just sucks.

MrPoolaty · June 2016

In ffxi there was instanced housing one small room per player. There was/is like 6 wall spots for plaques it flags pictures etc and about 20 to 40 floor tiles... Even so small as it was it still pretty awesome for all those years designing your mog house! The game launched in Japan in 2002 do i hope to God we something better than that here.

In ffxiv there was instanced neighborhoods which were way better!! Only thing was when launched they were from like 30 million to 6 million depending on lot size.. And they still don't have enough spots per server demand...

Can anyone give examples of housing on mega server? I think that's the question!

And let's be honest ZOS should show their hands asap on this so we the people who pay for the game can give feedback before they cross a threshold the player base might not like!!

I for one would play good money to have a housing plot! But I think to boost the economy they need the players to use in game materials to build it though!!!

Eshelmen · June 2016

MrPoolaty wrote: »

In ffxi there was instanced housing one small room per player. There was/is like 6 wall spots for plaques it flags pictures etc and about 20 to 40 floor tiles... Even so small as it was it still pretty awesome for all those years designing your mog house! The game launched in Japan in 2002 do i hope to God we something better than that here.

In ffxiv there was instanced neighborhoods which were way better!! Only thing was when launched they were from like 30 million to 6 million depending on lot size.. And they still don't have enough spots per server demand...

Can anyone give examples of housing on mega server? I think that's the question!

And let's be honest ZOS should show their hands asap on this so we the people who pay for the game can give feedback before they cross a threshold the player base might not like!!

I for one would play good money to have a housing plot! But I think to boost the economy they need the players to use in game materials to build it though!!!

They could just add a few zones dedicated to just housing plots as FFXIV has. But yeah, considering how the Mega Server works, it's almost a no brainer to use instanced housing instead. Is it easier to do? Yup. Is it better? Not in my opinion.
If they do housing instances, it'll be just another gimmick in the crown store.

1 week of hype and then it dies.....

MrPoolaty · June 2016

Yea I'm thinking there's no f in way there's going to be static housing...

Enodoc · June 2016

Xabien wrote: »

There's another big con to instanced neighbourhoods - when the initial excitement wears off, they become virtual ghost towns, ala LOTRO. I'm thrilled they haven't gone this route. They're usually off in the middle of nowhere, and empty as hell, making housing feel like a random bolt-on with very little activity.

Agreed. I would hate instanced neighbourhoods - that would just lead to even more player segregation, as each player group is shafted away into their own instance. If there's nothing to do in the instanced neighbourhoods, they become dead space as you just go through a bunch of empty identikit structures until you get to the one that's yours. If there are things to do in the neighbourhoods, then other areas, such as the main cities, start seeing less players in them. With instanced houses in the cities, you get the neighbourhood feel with the other players and aren't separated from them; the slightly immersion-breaking case of everyone using the same door is a small price to pay for not splitting your player base up.

MrTijger · June 2016

I'm still pretty new to ESO and the one thing that hugely surprised me was the fact that there isn't any player housing, given Skyrim and Oblivion I more or less expected housing to have been there from Day 1.

I'd rather like to have a house!

Rohamad_Ali · June 2016

From the screenshots on PTS it looks like we're getting solo instanced houses right around the major cities .

Bam_Bam · June 2016

LotRO housing is fine. If your neighbourhood there has become a 'ghosttown' thats because the game is almost 10 years old with a severely depleted population. In its heyday, the neighbourhoods were VERY busy although most people (still tend) to use their house for storage, meetings and guilding.

DaniAngione · June 2016

Baranthus wrote: »

LotRO housing is fine. If your neighbourhood there has become a 'ghosttown' thats because the game is almost 10 years old with a severely depleted population. In its heyday, the neighbourhoods were VERY busy although most people (still tend) to use their house for storage, meetings and guilding.

Exactly. I remember back in the day of Mines of Moria... I used to live in Falathlorn Homesteads, Lad Lammad neighborhood...

We used to have music parties in the weekends (LOTRO has an awesome music system where you can literally play any music - note by note) and then we would all go swimming in the lake nearby.

We had a couple of parties and weddings too, there was this little space designed for weddings with many chairs and flowers.

It wasn't uncommon to meet your neighbors walking around or visiting the local store - where you get a discount for basic supplies - and I met a lot of great people!

If there's one thing I don't remember seeing was a ghost town. I do believe they exist, last time I played the game population was very... unhealthy. But this is a common phenomenon in games with different servers. ESO will always have the advantage of being a megaserver, which means that even during the worst of times, you'll still have more people playing with you than on games where servers can go as low as 100 people.

Please, Instanced Neighborhoods! #TheresTimeStill

ShedsHisTail · June 2016

A lot of the pictures I've been seeing on the houses already in world are fairly sizable locations. It's very possible these are intended to be locations for group or guild housing; or expensive premium estates and there may still be instanced neighborhoods with smaller homes to come.

nine9six · June 2016

Will there be Section 8 for Khajiit and Argonian residents?

Arkady · June 2016

Baranthus wrote: »

LotRO housing is fine. If your neighbourhood there has become a 'ghosttown' thats because the game is almost 10 years old with a severely depleted population. In its heyday, the neighbourhoods were VERY busy although most people (still tend) to use their house for storage, meetings and guilding.

No, it's a ghost town because there are only about 20 houses per "neighborhood" and the odds of those 20 players wanting to be in the neighborhood all at the same time to do nearly nothing is very slim. Neighborhoods compartmentalize the community way more than open world portal housing does (EQ2 style). EQ2 style access allows the neighborhood to be populated where anyone can meet another. Neighborhoods also mean that popular houses get filled quickly and additional neighborhood instances are created so that those popular houses can be filled while unpopular houses remain perpetually vacated.

EQ2 and Rift style hookless placement allows for a great deal of customization within that. Barring that SWTOR style hooks are a second best option because there is a ton of them and they still offer a reasonable amount of customization.

An important aspect to me is that the housing have useful features and be more than just a decorating place. It could be a decorating place if that is all the player wants to do, but having some useful functionality adds depth. That could be a visual achievement showcase (like EQ2 lore and legends, heritage, signature, and crafting quests), a place for crafted items displayed, some special quest rewards, an sales/item showcase, etc.

Makkir · June 2016

I think it would be cool if we could place NPC vendors in our houses like we could in Star Wars Galaxies.

ShedsHisTail · June 2016

I think what I like about what we're seeing so far is that a lot of the houses out in the world are walled estates.

What this means is that each one can be instanced (so they aren't divorced from the rest of the world like they would be in a neighborhood) but with those walls there, it opens the possibility of "exterior" customization for the home. If you can't see inside from outside the walls, then the interior of said walled space can be incrementally different from player to player.

Or, since you've got a courtyard you could have friends over, or maybe even make it a shared space for some of the larger plots; give permanent access to certain other players.

One player could have a garden, another a smithy or stable, but from outside the walls they'd be the same plot of property. I think that's a really interesting potential.

I'd like to see a few just regular homes within the confines of the cities become available for sale as well (cheaper, since less customization options), and some more secluded purchase options too.

Vikaernes · June 2016

From what I can see, it looks like housing in ESO is going to be very similar to housing in Black Desert, where you have an actual physical location for your house in the world, but it's an instance all of your own. This worked really well in BDO, and didn't have that *** "magic portal to an instanced home completely divorced from the game world" feel, because you had a physical location to enter from, and you could see the outside world around you. If ESO did it this way, and had a robust customization system for the inside, I would not complain one bit.

Averya_Teira · June 2016

They won't do it simply because..... Instanced Housing is easier and faster to create, that means better In ZOS' mind...