Fixing Game Performance vs. Making Money (with frequent DLCs)

GrumpyDuckling · June 2016

Instead of dropping DLCs with the frequency at which we've been seeing them, it would be nice to see ZOS take a break from money-chasing DLCs and instead address serious problems that have been in the game for a while (such as lag/performance issues - especially in PVP).

We (the players) don't have access to the behind the scenes calendar for content release deadlines, so for all we know the development team may be contractually obligated to keep pumping out DLCs and raking in money. However, If the developers are given any flexibility with their work, it would be terrific to see them spend more time focusing on how to fix lag/performance issues and less time creating new DLCs.

I understand, as always, there will be people who don't care about performance issues that largely plague PVP and would rather see DLCs keep rolling out. I hear you. However, if you ever reach the point that I'm at, where I've started exhausting PVE options and have begun frequently engaging with PVP to add to my ESO experience, then please understand how poorly PVP performs at times due to lag/crashing (especially when fighting around keeps).

ESO is fun and I'm happy to see it growing with new content, but it would be nice to see performance issues take priority over new content - before that content arrives.

FriedEggSandwich · June 2016

I've often thought I would be happy with a "fix all" dlc, but I saw it suggested in a thread once and it was met with mostly negative responses. I believe the general consensus was back then that zos should be able to do both (release regular dlc and fix the game). General opinion may have changed since then. I agree with you though, I just want the game fixed.

XaXa · June 2016

I was under the impression that the Dungeon pack is from a scraped murkmire DLC? I would prefer after this they go back and fix more stuff. I'm dying for some new dungeons tho.

ThePonzzz · June 2016

Typically, the same people working on the DLC aren't the same people working on performance. Same people pushing content aren't the same people working on development. This is my experience from a much smaller studio. Since ESO went B2P, content is the only way they can generate revenue. This isn't a charity, it's a business.

Smasherx74 · June 2016

There is a huge issue with performance, the game starts to lag it's self over time. I'm pretty sure those memory leaks since beta never got addressed, they just got worst.

GrumpyDuckling · June 2016

ThePonzzz wrote: »

Typically, the same people working on the DLC aren't the same people working on performance. Same people pushing content aren't the same people working on development. This is my experience from a much smaller studio. Since ESO went B2P, content is the only way they can generate revenue. This isn't a charity, it's a business.

If performance people are different than content people, then the focus of this conversation should shift to what the performance people have been doing over the last year+. However, we don't know for sure if that's true.

To imply that we are requesting charity is extreme. We're requesting that the product that this business puts out perform better.

Tandor · June 2016

Bear in mind that a lot of people don't have any significant performance issues, especially those who do not PvP. While fixing such issues may be a priority for those who do have them, content is a priority for others. Besides, I'm willing to bet that those who shout the loudest on the forum about performance problems would be the first to shout about ZOS having "lied" to them over the frequency of content releases if they were to cut back on content releases!

As already stated, it is inconceivable that the same team works on both content and performance.

A prudent developer will work on both content and performance, both are crucial to ongoing commercial success.

GrumpyDuckling · June 2016

Tandor wrote: »

Bear in mind that a lot of people don't have any significant performance issues, especially those who do not PvP. While fixing such issues may be a priority for those who do have them, content is a priority for others.

As already stated, it is inconceivable that the same team works on both content and performance.

A prudent developer will work on both content and performance, both are crucial to ongoing commercial success.

Please read the first post, in it's entirety (it discusses the understanding that content is likely a priority for non-PVP players).

It's not "inconceivable" that there are developers who work on both content and performance. If the content they created has performance issues, then they are, by definition, responsible for its performance.

disintegr8 · June 2016

It's an example of not being able to keep everyone happy.

I would prefer to get less new content if it works properly whereas some people just want as much new content as possible regardless of how well it works. Kind of like some people would prefer eating 3 or 4 ordinary poorly made apple pies over only getting 1 that might be the best they have ever had.

ThePonzzz · June 2016

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

ThePonzzz wrote: »

Typically, the same people working on the DLC aren't the same people working on performance. Same people pushing content aren't the same people working on development. This is my experience from a much smaller studio. Since ESO went B2P, content is the only way they can generate revenue. This isn't a charity, it's a business.

If performance people are different than content people, then the focus of this conversation should shift to what the performance people have been doing over the last year+. However, we don't know for sure if that's true.

To imply that we are requesting charity is extreme. We're requesting that the product that this business puts out perform better.

It's likely not a team, but they have deployed MANY updates to try to resolve it. It's just not going to be the number one priority, and definitely not the only priority. They will always work on new content to drive sales. The day they stop doing that is the day we all need to move on.

IcyDeadPeople · June 2016

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Instead of dropping DLCs with the frequency at which we've been seeing them, it would be nice to see ZOS take a break from money-chasing DLCs and instead address serious problems that have been in the game for a while (such as lag/performance issues - especially in PVP).

We (the players) don't have access to the behind the scenes calendar for content release deadlines, so for all we know the development team may be contractually obligated to keep pumping out DLCs and raking in money. However, If the developers are given any flexibility with their work, it would be terrific to see them spend more time focusing on how to fix lag/performance issues and less time creating new DLCs.

I understand, as always, there will be people who don't care about performance issues that largely plague PVP and would rather see DLCs keep rolling out. I hear you. However, if you ever reach the point that I'm at, where I've started exhausting PVE options and have begun frequently engaging with PVP to add to my ESO experience, then please understand how poorly PVP performs at times due to lag/crashing (especially when fighting around keeps).

ESO is fun and I'm happy to see it growing with new content, but it would be nice to see performance issues take priority over new content - before that content arrives.

There are different teams working on entirely different projects at the same time. It's not like they can just pull some environmental artist off the next DLC and task him with revising the netcode etc.

mrs_gibbs · June 2016

I

Tandor wrote: »

Bear in mind that a lot of people don't have any significant performance issues, especially those who do not PvP. While fixing such issues may be a priority for those who do have them, content is a priority for others. Besides, I'm willing to bet that those who shout the loudest on the forum about performance problems would be the first to shout about ZOS having "lied" to them over the frequency of content releases if they were to cut back on content releases!

As already stated, it is inconceivable that the same team works on both content and performance.

A prudent developer will work on both content and performance, both are crucial to ongoing commercial success.

Agree. I have almost 0 performance issues. Even in PVP.

My husband on the other hand, has terrible lag, black screens, etc. Oh course I'm running on a top of the line desktop, and he is gimping by on a cheap laptop.

Even though I personally don't have most of the problems people complain about, I'd be okay if they cut back on content a little and spent more time on fixes. I thought that is what they are doing with the smaller dungeon pack release?

magnusthorek · June 2016

There's the saying... "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem"

And lately ZOS is releasing more and more poorly tested content with issues that affect the side already (more or less) stable and bugs affecting things entirely unrelated to each other.

That added with an almost endless amount of purchasable items that, in crowded places, takes so much time to load that you HAVE to stand still and grab a coffee AFTER the loading screen because if you start walking around right away you'll have two, three, four loading screens in less than a minute.

I know it's a business and their diabolical TOS spares them the obligation but, as developer myself, I believe much more quality rather than amount.

Xylphan · June 2016

There's a lot of outstanding issues that need to be fixed. The quarterly release schedule isn't helping. It's also clear that they don't have large teams of developers working on different things. If they did, then things like the group finder would not remain broken, people on consoles wouldn't end up virtually being locked out of their characters in populated areas, etc.

Worse, these aren't even new issues. They're old issues. The exploit problem goes back to game launch and it's STILL an issue today.

This isn't the devs. It's the management. Whoever is running the show is making bad calls that are detrimental to the game. They seem to think if they keep releasing new content they'll get more players and retain older ones. But new content means jack when the game itself is broken.

Averya_Teira · June 2016

ThePonzzz wrote: »

Typically, the same people working on the DLC aren't the same people working on performance. Same people pushing content aren't the same people working on development. This is my experience from a much smaller studio. Since ESO went B2P, content is the only way they can generate revenue. This isn't a charity, it's a business.

At ZOS, the people working on performance arem... nonexistant, so yeah they aren't the same working on DLCs lol.

At this point, the game almost qualifies for the FFXIV treatment.... Close it for a year, fix it for real, come back stronger.

Tekyn · June 2016

I would love for them to clean up the code, but at this point I severely doubt there is any one person or group of people employed by ZoS that knows enough of the code well enough. The way certain bugs have been around for years and even some of the way newer changes are done (flurry still having a 6th hit that just does no damage, the way they moved and renamed the Argonian passives to avoid having to touch the potion effect...then named the new one something one letter off from the old passive to avoid referencing the wrong one) hint that the people doing to code change as little as possible to achieve the results they need to, whether or not it's good practice to do it that way.

If it's just about saving time it's not good because it means more time later when other changes hit...which would mean they're more worried about immediate results than future changes. The other option is that they're just not familiar with it and trying to avoid inadvertently affecting things outside of the individual tweaks.

But then I am a pessimist...partly due to things like this. They then did the same thing at console launch. Now they're up a creek without a paddle in the customer service department and the game has never not been plagued with bugs that I can remember. I know running with the bare minimum of expenses is just good business, but I firmly believe that ZoS has been running lower than they should in the development department since that first round of layoffs. That or they lost some all-star players early on.

Averya_Teira · June 2016

Tekyn wrote: »

I know running with the bare minimum of expenses is just good business, but I firmly believe that ZoS has been running lower than they should in the development department since that first round of layoffs. That or they lost some all-star players early on.

They have no one from the original team working on the game is what I believe. Hell, eveyr DLC they have given us was already developped In 2014 before the game launched. They are just giving us little bits of content that has been developped two+ years ago by the original team.

ADarklore · June 2016

Let's also keep in mind that Matt Firor says they plan to add 'more frequent' "small content packs" from now on... so no more 'quarterly only DLCs' but I'd expect something monthly now like DCUO has been doing. SAD... because I want CONTENT not 'bits and pieces' of content with no real meat to it.

Tandor · June 2016

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Bear in mind that a lot of people don't have any significant performance issues, especially those who do not PvP. While fixing such issues may be a priority for those who do have them, content is a priority for others.

As already stated, it is inconceivable that the same team works on both content and performance.

A prudent developer will work on both content and performance, both are crucial to ongoing commercial success.

Please read the first post, in it's entirety (it discusses the understanding that content is likely a priority for non-PVP players).

It's not "inconceivable" that there are developers who work on both content and performance. If the content they created has performance issues, then they are, by definition, responsible for its performance.

I did read the first post in its entirety. I was agreeing with you in respect of those who don't PvP, but it isn't exclusively about that. There are some who do PvP and who either don't have any problems or even if they do have problems they still want content to be continued.

I'm sure we can agree to disagree on the other point about different teams handling performance and content design/implementation. Neither of us knows the specific deployment arrangements in ZOS, I am simply assuming that it follows the industry norms in this respect - different teams for different tasks requiring different talents.