Which is... Nord or Bosmer? They did kinda hose Bosmer by making Khajiit have a straight stamina buff. Nord seems like Imperial-light. I guess if you have imperial edition, use an Imp to tank. If not, use Nord.

Also, what's up with dropping health regen across the board? My khajiit will miss that... it made being a pve vampire bearable.

Edit: Oh, don't forget. Best crafting alt: Orc. Fastest run speed AND 10% inspiration buff. Best at gathering mats and fastest craft leveling.

Fail

It should all be Breton

I'm still not sure how the Argonian "healing done" is better than "healing received", if you don't want to be a healer...

Vinther wrote: »

Best magicka DPS for PvE: Dunmer
Best stamina DPS for PvE: Khajit
Best healer for PvE: Argonian
Best tank for PvE: Imperial

Best stamina race for PvP: Redguard
Best magicka race for PvP: Altmer
Best healer for PvP: Breton
Best stamsorc: Orc

There's still no place for any of the other races when it comes to min-maxing your potential.

Cheers ZOS.

Generally speaking races and gear coincide for min/maxing potential and there is never a "one race fits all." Sure there are races that are generally better, but wouldn't qualify as a min/maxed character for a particular motd build.

Example: Magicka Templars do indeed benefit from being a Dunmer for DPS purposes when you consider that all of their damage is flame and magic, however Sorcs on the other hand would benefit more from High Elf when you consider that their class passives which increase lightning damage and then the high elf passive which does the same, while buffing flame damage. Most sorcs damage dealing abilities include more lightning than flame damage and therefore Dunmer loses. Let's also look at NB's for example, if you are a NB who uses Kena and Funnel as your main spammable, then indeed Dunmer is most suited, However you could flip this around and use Nerien'eth and Force Pulse (which does more damage than Funnel with DK engulfing on target) and get a higher increase to damage with High Elf passive. I'm not even going to touch DK as that is a given lol.

TL:DR - There are general overall races, but not necessarily best for each class/build.

JinMori wrote: »

khajiit i think is the best dps race for stamina but specifically in trials i think

rokrdt05 wrote: »

Vinther wrote: »

Best magicka DPS for PvE: Dunmer
Best stamina DPS for PvE: Khajit
Best healer for PvE: Argonian
Best tank for PvE: Imperial

Best stamina race for PvP: Redguard
Best magicka race for PvP: Altmer
Best healer for PvP: Breton
Best stamsorc: Orc

There's still no place for any of the other races when it comes to min-maxing your potential.

Cheers ZOS.

Generally speaking races and gear coincide for min/maxing potential and there is never a "one race fits all." Sure there are races that are generally better, but wouldn't qualify as a min/maxed character for a particular motd build.

Example: Magicka Templars do indeed benefit from being a Dunmer for DPS purposes when you consider that all of their damage is flame and magic, however Sorcs on the other hand would benefit more from High Elf when you consider that their class passives which increase lightning damage and then the high elf passive which does the same, while buffing flame damage. Most sorcs damage dealing abilities include more lightning than flame damage and therefore Dunmer loses. Let's also look at NB's for example, if you are a NB who uses Kena and Funnel as your main spammable, then indeed Dunmer is most suited, However you could flip this around and use Nerien'eth and Force Pulse (which does more damage than Funnel with DK engulfing on target) and get a higher increase to damage with High Elf passive. I'm not even going to touch DK as that is a given lol.

TL:DR - There are general overall races, but not necessarily best for each class/build.

Wrong, because templar still has some fire based abilities, and most magicka templars are gonna use blockade of fire

I'm not sure you read what I actually wrote. I did not contest Templar dps.

Vinther wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

I don't know about dunmer, i still think that dps wise high elf is better

JinMori wrote: »

and the stam recovery from redguard is just too good to pass on

JinMori wrote: »

And even argonian, i don't know if the healing done passive is enough to beat breaton and high elf 10 % max magicka, but it's certanly a good thing

The tier list references to the optimized min-max builds, considering you will have enough sustain with an optimized group, such as trial running or even dungeons (shards, siphon, orbs etc.).

High Elf aka Altmer can never beat Dunmer in a DPS race because one of the strongest dots, wall of elements is fire based (using fire staff). Your fire staff attacks are fire based. Your Shooting Star is fire based. Reflective Light-Vampire's bane is fire based.
Altmer was only viable for Sorcs using Force Pulse as a filler. Now with buffs to Dunmer, they can be equally good at it and better at other main dps spells.

Redguard's sustain is viable for PvP. It is subpar in PvE considering the current crit-meta.

Healing done passive is far better than the max mana when you are playing a dedicated healer.

Hope this clears things up for a bit. I thought the list was pretty self-explanatory.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Good Nightblades use Force Pulse for DPS, which is stronger on an Altmer than a dunmer. Combine that with the increased regen and 1% more max magicka and it's BiS for Nightblades.

Vinther wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Vinther wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Vinther wrote: »

Best stamina race for PvP: Redguard
Best magicka race for PvP: Altmer
Best healer for PvP: Breton
Best stamsorc: Orc

There's still no place for any of the other races when it comes to min-maxing your potential.

I have very little experience with endgame PVE, but what you are saying for PVP is an oversimplification.

Agree it would have been interesting to see some of the other races buffed a bit more, but the changes were a bit of an improvement over live. It really depends on what you are trying to do with the build, doesn't quite make sense to say these are hands down the best possible options.

And keep in mind following feedback there will be additional incremental patches before the changes roll out to live.

This is a tier list for meta. If you want to use out of meta builds like @hedna123b14_ESO is arguing about, then there's other options to go for. For an example if you wanna make heavy armor stamina using DK that pumps every buff and stat into health recovery, then I suppose Nord is best.

You already know what the various metas are going to be for Update 11? We don't even have the final version on PTS yet, let alone had a chance to test new builds with all the updated sets.

As you said yourself, you have not had experience with the end-game. So what is your point you are trying to push through here?

We're discussing your claims about PVP, not PVE. Viable builds for PVP are more complex than just trying to get the highest dps numbers.

I agree it would have been nice to see stronger buffs for some of the other races, but it's still too early to make this claim that there's no place for anything other than Altmer, Redguard, etc., when it comes to maximizing the potential of a particular build.

The next few weeks will be about testing the update, trying various builds and providing feedback. Based on the feedback there may be additional changes to some of the racial passives and new set bonuses, etc.