DjSolJAH wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Surge nerf is what killed the class not ward duration. for me anyways.

Ward duration, is an annoyance that doesn't need to be in the game. but that's about it.

Use liquid lightening and wall of elem for PvE and you don't even notice the difference. vMA is much easier to survive now. Health never drops as long as AoEs are down

Serenityx wrote: »

In light of all the sorcs complaining about their classes (and many even encouraging others to continue complaining) - If you look at the patch notes for your class, the only thing that got reduced was shield duration. Literally EVERY other change to your class abilitys was an increase.

Serenityx wrote: »

Shields are now an emergency sustain rather than relying on them 110% of the time just pop them when you get low and 6 seconds is MORE than enough time to replenish your health bar.

Mirelurk wrote: »

Sylveria_Relden wrote: »

I still remember when at release Sorcs were THE FOTM- you saw about 75% Sorc and the rest were DK and a smattering of Templars and NBs.

You are seriously talking about sorcs at release and thinking it adds *anything* to this discussion?

boundsy88 wrote: »

Sorc is now the best group utility in pvp

NEGATE

Negate is the decider of a battle now. even if u have cc immunity u cant do anything inside one.
Not to mention the fact that the healing and or damage is crazy depending on the morph u take.

Sorc implosion is OP with it proccing off any physical or shock damage. Pop down negate, caltrops, arrow barrage and hurricane and stand in a zerg on a stam sorc and bodies will just melt at your feet

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Maybe a little comparison can help people understand this situation a little better.

- A )How much damage does a shield on a Mag Sorc block, how much health does he have and what kind of armor does he use?

- B )How much damage does a dodge roll on a Stam DK block, how much health does he have and what kind of armor does he/she use?


Maybe you can see where I'm going here.

A ) A shield costs about ~2.6k Magicka and absorbs 10-15k Damage in next 6 seconds. He has 15-20k health and He is wearing Light Armor.

B ) A dodge roll costs about ~3k Stamina and absorbs ALL damage in a small time frame, he has about 22-25k health and he is wearing Medium Armor

---

So what do we learn from this?
- A sorc
has to sacrifice health to have strong, timed Shields as replacement for low health, which lasts 6 seconds. Why not take Health instead? max Magicka is important for Damage, too! The fact that a shield Defends against Maybe 2 attacks and every 6 seconds he is back to ridiculous low health and that he has to use Light Armor, makes him in this meta so squishy, that he's scared of being sneezed at. Keeping Resistance Reduction + Ignores in mind, a Sorc effectively runs less than 0 - 5000 resistance and 15k health if shield is down, a reliable class heal does not exist and an emergency heal comes only in form of a resto staff ability which relies on shield strength which forces to use Resto Staves aswell. This leads to shield spamming, considering wreckingblow and surprise attack spam hitting for at least 6-10k or being crit rushed deals ~5k dmg itself and the low health leads to death any second, fighting back is impossible (due to shield spamming).The Low Stam pool allows for maybe 2-3 dodge rolls or break frees and leads to completely ignored shields anyway, leaving a Sorc with 15k health, 0-5000 Resistance and no possibility to dodge or break free, waiting for death.

- A Stam DK
Has overall higher health and due to wearing Medium Armor higher resistances, aswell as benefits from cheaper dodge rolls and mobility. The Shield a sorcerer has to spam, Is Kind of included here as Health and doesnt Need to be reactivated. Therefore a Stam DK relies on healing. He benefits from HoT from Rally as example which Can be used as emergency Heal or Vigor, which Is a very strong HoT, comparable to Rally, and both come improved from a class Major Mending(sorc has no Access to this buff) which costs a less important resource(Magicka).If everything fails and He Is surrounded by 10 Enemy Players, he can still Dodge Roll, negating ANY Damage in a Small Time Frame and if done repeatedly for increased Cost in a very Long Time Frame, which Is not a big Problem since regen usually Is higher, Damage as High or Even higher and abilities Cost Overall way less than on a Magicka Build . Combining that with a permanent 20% Dodge Chance and Slow Immunity from Shuffle, and keeping Ressource Return on Ultimate Use in mind, a Stam DK (and Overall Stam Builds) excell at survivability.


To make a sorc survive better without Falling behind too much (Damage wise) Is hard If not impossible when keeping in mind there are
- no reliable self heals(except stupid pets or easily interruptable and delayed Dark Exchange which heal is not that great to begin with)
- spamming shields leads to no Damage Output at all (too easy to be forced into defense)
- No variation due to underwhelming class abilities -> Same playstyle -> Same Problems -> same easiness to be countered


Now dont get me wrong, with that comparison im not asking for Stam DK or stam overall nerfs "because I'm a salty Mag Sorc git gud" or whatever, no I'm just pointing out how well it (Stam dk) works and how good a DK can put what he has available to use. This is how good and fluently every class should work. And it does so because of the tools available, exactly what a Sorc doesn't have.

These tools im talking about also include class abilities which is the biggest flaw of a sorc in my opinion.
The only tools a Sorc has for survival are
a
- (nerfed) Streak
- (nerfed) Surge (+ reliance on crit!)
- (nerfed) Shields (say what you want, reduced duration IS a nerf)
- (buffed but still wasteful) channelled heal: Dark Exchange

For Damage we got interesting abilities like
- a heavy-hitting, timed curse
- a heavy-hitting but easy to avoid/reflect Chrystal Fragment (with a useless 2nd morph)
- an execute with a not-so-good execute range
- A Stunning very short-range Teleport which deals Shock Damage, cost increae with every use
- a good ground based Shock AoE Ability
- a heavy-hitting but easy to avoid/reflect Overload Ultimate
- An Atronach Summon Ult which Stuns and Damages in AoE range, but afterwards is not doing too well.
- A great AoE Silence Ult which can either deal some damage or heal when inside, but is easy to avoid if not timed perfectly

This is where Sorc doesn't need much improvement actually.


The rest are utility Abilities, which either
- other classes also have and use more efficiently
- are Toggles with underwhelming Use
- are underwhelming summons(toggles, too)
- Are not contributing to Group/Dungeon Play in any way with let's say unique buffs
or
- are not useful to begin with, due to various other reasons (range/radius, cost per use, being bound to a stupid pet, etc.)

Some Active Abilitiy Change Suggestions:

- Empowered Ward: "Also grants Minor IntellectVitality to you and nearby allies for 10 seconds"
- Bound Aegis: "While equipped you receive Minor Mending, increasing healing done by 10%. Aditionally, you restore 2% Max Stamina, whenever you are attacked. This can happen once every 4 seconds."
- Surge: Remove the crit based proc and replace it with a constant 50% Chance while active
- Dark Exchange: Make the user uninterruptable while channeling + make the heal come instantly (seems delayed)



Passives:
- Most passives sorc use, have passive (no pun intended) improvements, like a little more spell dmg, more health regen, more weapon damage and so on. Now, This is not a bad thing, but these include nothing that helps during a fight. Also there are 2 Summon centred Passives, which are really useless.

- Rebate: When a Summon dies(doesnt include the Daedroth as example) you restore pathetic 1450 Magicka
How to improve Rebate: When a summon dies, it explodes for 3000 Shock Damage and knocks down the closest enemy. Additionally, you restore 1500 Magicka and gain Minor intellect for 8 seconds.

- Expert Summoner: 8% more Max Health if a Summon is active
How to improve: 2/4% more Max Health. If a summon is active, your Max Health is increased by 5/10% instead

The only potentially interesting Passives are
- "Blood Magic": 8% max health restore when dark magic ability used against an enemy

- "Implosion": Whenever you deal shock/physical dmg to a target under 15% health, you have a 6% chance to cause 4732 Shock/Physical Damage


Why potentially interesting?
- Blood Magic: 8% max Health restore sounds good at first, but 8% of already low Health, lets say from 20k is 1600, which still is low. Additionally it only happens when hitting an enemy, also only on the first hit. This means this Ability has a internal cooldown and it also doesnt work on more than 1 target hit(Tested Suppression Field, Restraining Prison)

- Implosion: The idea of this passive is great and works out very good on a Stam Sorc due to more Dots being avalaible and used. For Mag Sorc on the other hand, there are very few options to proc this Effect at all.

How to improve Blood Magic:
New Tooltip: Restore 8% max Health when a dark magic ability is used against an enemy
Restore 12% max Health whenever a dark magic ability is activated.

- Even if it still doesnt proc multiple times, it atleast works on every single ability from Dark Magic and overall proc more often
- Dark Exchange procs it now and heal + Blood Magic proc at same time is like a buff to Dark Exchange itslf (which is needed)
- Defensive Rune now also grants the heal, even if the attacking Enemy is cc immune
- (Obviously) more Healing

How to improve Implosion:
New Tooltip: : Whenever you deal physical(shock) dmg to a target under 15%(25%) health, you have a 6%(12%) chance to cause 4732 Physical (2742 Shock) Damage

- The Physical Dmg stays the same since it works well enough
- Shock Damage proc chance is now higher but in exchange the damage it can deal is lowered