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THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PAY TO WIN AND PAY FOR EXTRA HARMLESS PERKS
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Knightpanther✭✭✭✭✭
✭CokeVoAYCE wrote: »seems a lot of people don't understand this.
pay to win is simply: subbing makes the game easier
pay for extra perks is: subbing for extra dyes, costumes, and other cosmetics
pay to win includes: xp bonus, craft bags
pay for harmless perks include anything that doesn't affect gameplay
so yes, that 10% bonus to xp is paying to win. i don't have much of a problem with it because it's only paying to make the game 10% easier which isn't that much. but i did have a problem with craft bags and the direction it looks like ESO's going.
HAHA is this some sort of joke? Subbing is a way of putting cash into the company that produces games, if they don't make money goodbye game, simple economics.
If (like any business) they give an incentive (perks) to help loosen the cash from your wallet how is this wrong?
10% exp bonus is play to win? what are you smoking?
Forgive me whilst I go search my crafting bag, the I-WIN button must have gone in there by mistake.
Be Safre
6 -
NativeJoe✭✭✭✭✭My only problem with crafting bags is this:
We are now at the point that your bank space isn't enough to hold a stack of all the materials in the game. Simply put there wasn't and isn't enough inventory space. This is a design flaw in my mind. And the remedy is a 180 dollar sub every year.
While not exactly game breaking with mules and mail bounce addons and whatnot... It does introduce something disturbing to me. They manufacture a defect, then SELL you the solution. And this ideology spilling over into other things... could be devastating to the game imo.
It's not a pay to win game. but it is dancing along the line. As the game grows in DLC numbers and CP cap increases and various other systems get implemented, I think we will eventually cross the line. I still remember the "national pet day" spam we got across the middle of our screens telling us to go to the crown store and buy a pet to celebrate the day. And I remember that is the direction they eventually wanna take this game.
The real question is... when that day arrives, are we inlove with this game, or simply playing it because it is the only game in town? with the way wow detonated and other games went f2p and others just sunk, what is this one's fate?
The only answers to these questions I have are ugly. So I'll spare you all the conjecture. But I really do love this game, I just don't know how much longer I can live with the LAYERS of bugs, every dlc having MAJOR issues, and the ongoing performance issues.Edited by NativeJoe on June 27, 2016 9:42AM650cp+ Sorcerer 100+ days /played
Broken'Stick North American Server
https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks2 -
Leandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
At the same time, they basically made a third of the materials (for everything except provisioning, and enchanting with a bit less than one fifth only) largely irrelevant by introducing a 50 -> max jump for everyone with 150+ CP. The need to store those mats is largely eliminated, reducing the requirements for storage.My only problem with crafting bags is this:
We are now at the point that your bank space isn't enough to hold a stack of all the materials in the game. Simply put there wasn't and isn't enough inventory space. This is a design flaw in my mind. And the remedy is a 180 dollar sub every year.
While not exactly game breaking with mules and mail bounce addons and whatnot... It does introduce something disturbing to me. They manufacture a defect, then SELL you the solution. And this ideology spilling over into other things... could be devastating to the game imo.2 -
Vangy✭✭✭✭✭
✭
At the same time, they basically made a third of the materials (for everything except provisioning, and enchanting with a bit less than one fifth only) largely irrelevant by introducing a 50 -> max jump for everyone with 150+ CP. The need to store those mats is largely eliminated, reducing the requirements for storage.My only problem with crafting bags is this:
We are now at the point that your bank space isn't enough to hold a stack of all the materials in the game. Simply put there wasn't and isn't enough inventory space. This is a design flaw in my mind. And the remedy is a 180 dollar sub every year.
While not exactly game breaking with mules and mail bounce addons and whatnot... It does introduce something disturbing to me. They manufacture a defect, then SELL you the solution. And this ideology spilling over into other things... could be devastating to the game imo.
Not just that, a large portion of the mats dont need to be stored. 90% of trait stones, most crafting style stones save the new ones etc are largely irrelevant. You can always get them off the blacksmith etc for dirt cheap or guild stores in stacks of 100s for literally nothing. As long as you dont hoard stuff you dont need, the bank and bag space is more than enuf. Craft bags just literally eliminates the need to check what you loot. Just hit pick up to your hearts content.(2)V16 Dk- stam dps/stam tank/mag dps
(2)V16 Sorc- mag dps/stam dps
(2)V16 nb- stam dps/mag dps
(1)v16 temp- mag tank/mag dps
CP: 610 and counting
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates! Viva la revolutionz2 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Craft bags are not P2W....
They are convenient. Very convenient. I hate was ZOS is doing with them and the new trend locking everything new behind a sub fee, but it is not P2W.
• Gold CP160 Robust Agility Jewelry: 5K crowns for all three pieces
• Gold CP160 Arcane Willpower Jewelry: 5K crowns for all three pieces
• The Maelstrom's Maul in Sharpened: 4K crowns
^^^This would be P2WEdited by Vaoh on June 27, 2016 9:51AM2 -
TheDarkoil✭✭✭^tru dat. I've got that many different ingredients in my bag now as I just pick everything up it sometimes feels like a master chef simulator.2
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DannyLV702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm surprised that no one here has caught on that this guys is a troll. Congratulations, guys.4 -
Crowzer✭✭✭Come on, one step more and ZOS will sell Champion Points packs and I'll buy them for sure.Edited by Crowzer on June 27, 2016 10:10AM0 -
Wollust✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ye I heard those crafting bags are savage af. Giving more damage and mitigation and resources. A true p2w item. How dare they do something like that.Susano'o
Zerg Squad0 -
L2Pissue✭✭✭✭✭i spent 1500 USD in a free to play addictive game
i've been eso+ for about 1 year and purchased the game for 80usd..
i think that there is a difference.. yet still, eso has a flavor of paying to get the best in regards of vMA staff, IC dungeons and that stuff..Edited by L2Pissue on June 27, 2016 10:20AM0 -
Azoryl✭✭✭CokeVoAYCE wrote: »
there you go. i don't have any of the DLC so i can't get any of that fancy shmancy trial gear or whatever that vma stuff is.
It is only your own fault, if you are a freeloader...
Only you can change your life... no one else can do it for you...2 -
Duiwel✭✭✭✭✭
✭I pay to win everyday!
I pay in game gold for gold tempers and materials to get the best level of item ( legendary )
I pay everyday with my time to gain experience and skill
I pay everyday with my friendship and friendliness to form strong bonds in my guild and friend's list.
I PAY TO WIN!@Duiwel:Join ORDER OF SITHIS We're recruiting! PC EU"Dear Brother. I do not spread rumours. I create them..."0 -
Drungly✭✭✭If people would actually use the time complaining on the forums to work for money they could afford a sub easily.0 -
Averya_Teira✭✭✭✭✭CokeVoAYCE wrote: »seems a lot of people don't understand this.
pay to win is simply: subbing makes the game easier
pay for extra perks is: subbing for extra dyes, costumes, and other cosmetics
pay to win includes: xp bonus, craft bags
pay for harmless perks include anything that doesn't affect gameplay
so yes, that 10% bonus to xp is paying to win. i don't have much of a problem with it because it's only paying to make the game 10% easier which isn't that much. but i did have a problem with craft bags and the direction it looks like ESO's going.
What do you "win" exactly ? And how does the CP bonus make the game easier ? What do you "win" with a craft bag ?
A P2W bonus would be, for example, while subbed, you have the Emperor stats wherever you go at all times. Or, while subbed, dodging and blocking doesn't require stamina. Stuff like that... Not a *** 10% XP boost or the convenience of a craft bag, which everyone has been playing without since the game launched?
You make no sense. End of story.0 -
AmberLaTerra✭✭✭✭Just another one who wants everything given to them right away for free in the OP.
No one pays there is no game end of story, so perks for paying are a fact of life. You get what you pay for.
They are simply perks as well in no way P2W. Don't even try to argue the DLC is pay to win as that is like saying every expansion for every other game has been free which you all know is not the case.
If you buy fall out do you expect to get fallout 2,3,and 4 free? No. Sequels in reality are just expansions after all.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
CP 365 Nord DK DPS EP
CP 365 Imperal DK Stam Tank EP
Level 9 Imperial Stam Templar EP
Cp 365 Khajiit Stam Blade EP
For the glory of the Pact0 -
Averya_Teira✭✭✭✭✭I dont think ZoS is completely P2W free. When IC came out, you had to pay so you could farm best monster set in the game for dps. When Orsinium came, out you had to pay so you can farm for best weapons in the game. You had to pay, so you could run MoL where you get best PvE gear. From my point of view this game is P2W to a degree.
By that definition, every game ever, MMO or single player, is P2W. I mean, Fallout is so P2W, if I don't buy the game, I don't have access to the best Armor and weapons !
......That's how you sound, you entitled fuckhead. Of course, you'll have to pay for new content, how do you expect the company to stay In business otherwise?
Edit: Haha, fuckhead isn't blocked....Edited by Averya_Teira on June 27, 2016 10:43AM1 -
FatKidHatchets✭✭✭Pay to win is that someone who pays has such an advantage over you that they win.
Uber ZoS Platemail of Teabaggery - + 10k to magick health and Stamina
Uber ZoS Girdle of Rest Easy - + 500 to all recoveries
These sorts of items could be sold in the crown store right now for 20,000 crown and they would sell quick. And those that did not buy them would be at a disadvantage and lose to those who did. This is pay to win.
The craft bag gives 0 advantages aside from convenient storage.
EsO plus gives 0 advantages to winning.
EsO is not pay to win in the slightest2 -
jircris11✭✭✭✭✭
✭one mmo that everyone can use as an example of P2W is swtor. think about it. you do not sub you are practically on a trial account. no access to the new story arcs, no access to the purple gear. 350k credit limit. i mean honestly in a mmo term eso is the least P2W.IGN: Ki'rah
Khajiit/Vampire
DC/AD faction/NA server.
RPer0 -
RDMyers65b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭*Facepalm* Yeah, those highest level nodes of rubidite, ancestor silk, and ruby ash just love to show up when I am riding to whatever keep I am trying to get to defend. I do believe that Cyrodil is part of the base game.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Semantics.
According to most online definitions I have read, Pay to Win is when you are paying for an advantage normal players don't have access to unless they pay too.
Extra storage space for materials (such as the crafting bags) are undoubtedly an advantage. As the above poster points out, it's more of a convenience than a direct combat advantage. But storing materials for later use or selling them is a significant portion of ESO's game play. It's just not graphics/sound related.
So this game does have elements of Pay to Win. But it's to a small degree and shouldn't discourage non-subscribers.Edited by Jeremy on June 27, 2016 11:45AM0 -
Leandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Semantics.Semantics.
According to most online definitions I have read, Pay to Win is when you are paying for an advantage normal players don't have access to unless they pay too.
Extra storage space for materials (such as the crafting bags) are undoubtedly an advantage. As the above poster points out, it's more of a convenience than a direct combat advantage. But storing materials for later use or selling them is a significant portion of ESO's game play. It's just not graphics/sound related.
So this game does have elements of Pay to Win. But it's to a small degree and shouldn't discourage non-subscribers.
You do not gain anything that you do not have without it. You can store crafting materials in sufficient amounts without the crafting bag. With it, you just need not sell off unneeded extra.1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Semantics.Semantics.
According to most online definitions I have read, Pay to Win is when you are paying for an advantage normal players don't have access to unless they pay too.
Extra storage space for materials (such as the crafting bags) are undoubtedly an advantage. As the above poster points out, it's more of a convenience than a direct combat advantage. But storing materials for later use or selling them is a significant portion of ESO's game play. It's just not graphics/sound related.
So this game does have elements of Pay to Win. But it's to a small degree and shouldn't discourage non-subscribers.
You do not gain anything that you do not have without it.
Of course you do. You gain the advantage of more inventory space to supplement your crafting and trade.
Edited by Jeremy on June 27, 2016 12:00PM0 -
Leandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Buy ingame bag/bank space with gold. As said above, this allows you to have enough on store for every purpose. I know that since I did that before craft bag.
Semantics.Semantics.
According to most online definitions I have read, Pay to Win is when you are paying for an advantage normal players don't have access to unless they pay too.
Extra storage space for materials (such as the crafting bags) are undoubtedly an advantage. As the above poster points out, it's more of a convenience than a direct combat advantage. But storing materials for later use or selling them is a significant portion of ESO's game play. It's just not graphics/sound related.
So this game does have elements of Pay to Win. But it's to a small degree and shouldn't discourage non-subscribers.
You do not gain anything that you do not have without it.
Of course you do. You gain the advantage of more inventory space to compliment your crafting or trade.
That by the way includes several stacks of each alchemy ingredient and up to 2000 (or 10 stacks) of each V16 material.
And that's it: you add more space for convenience, which in my view does not constitute P2W.
As I said, you are guilty of exactly what you accuse others of. Fighting over semantics.Edited by Leandor on June 27, 2016 12:05PM0 -
AmberLaTerra✭✭✭✭Let's use an analogy to put the fact it is not P2W in terms any can understand.
IRL I have a job I make more money then someone who does not have a job but also subsidize them with my taxes for their school, (welfare if they are out of school) and so forth, but always make more money then them because I have a job. Does having a job mean I am doing P2W IRL?
In game this equates to as ESO+ members we are paying for the development, the server maintenance, and the fact ZOS as a business need to make money and many other things, the minor perks like the craft bag are the equivalent of our paycheck while the players who do not have ESO+ are being subsidized by us as our payments are like taxes keeping things running for everyone.
You want the paycheck of the perks put in the work to keep the game alive.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
CP 365 Nord DK DPS EP
CP 365 Imperal DK Stam Tank EP
Level 9 Imperial Stam Templar EP
Cp 365 Khajiit Stam Blade EP
For the glory of the Pact1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Buy ingame bag/bank space with gold. As said above, this allows you to have enough on store for every purpose. I know that since I did that before craft bag.
Semantics.Semantics.
According to most online definitions I have read, Pay to Win is when you are paying for an advantage normal players don't have access to unless they pay too.
Extra storage space for materials (such as the crafting bags) are undoubtedly an advantage. As the above poster points out, it's more of a convenience than a direct combat advantage. But storing materials for later use or selling them is a significant portion of ESO's game play. It's just not graphics/sound related.
So this game does have elements of Pay to Win. But it's to a small degree and shouldn't discourage non-subscribers.
You do not gain anything that you do not have without it.
Of course you do. You gain the advantage of more inventory space to compliment your crafting or trade.
That by the way includes several stacks of each alchemy ingredient and up to 2000 (or 10 stacks) of each V16 material.
The fact you can buy extra space with gold doesn't change the fact that subscribing gives you the advantage of having infinite storage space for your crafting materials.
That is a game play advantage non-subscribers don't have access to. It's not just graphics/sound related.Edited by Jeremy on June 27, 2016 12:08PM0 -
Clerics1985✭✭✭ESO isn't pay to win, that would be like Selling vampire bites/wherewolf bites and Mount upgrades for real life cash just to make some rich kids life easier0
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Leandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Still not replying to the point of my post but to semantics. Have fun!
Buy ingame bag/bank space with gold. As said above, this allows you to have enough on store for every purpose. I know that since I did that before craft bag.
Semantics.Semantics.
According to most online definitions I have read, Pay to Win is when you are paying for an advantage normal players don't have access to unless they pay too.
Extra storage space for materials (such as the crafting bags) are undoubtedly an advantage. As the above poster points out, it's more of a convenience than a direct combat advantage. But storing materials for later use or selling them is a significant portion of ESO's game play. It's just not graphics/sound related.
So this game does have elements of Pay to Win. But it's to a small degree and shouldn't discourage non-subscribers.
You do not gain anything that you do not have without it.
Of course you do. You gain the advantage of more inventory space to compliment your crafting or trade.
That by the way includes several stacks of each alchemy ingredient and up to 2000 (or 10 stacks) of each V16 material.
The fact you can buy extra space with gold doesn't change the fact that subscribing gives you the advantage of having infinite storage space for your crafting materials.
That is a game play advantage non-subscribers don't have access to. It's not just graphics/sound related.0
