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Sorcerer Pets: Unfixed Bugs and Problems

Dracane
Dracane
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Hey there,

I wanted to gather all the current bugs and problems that are bugging Sorcerer pets. Some rather known, some rather unknown.
I'm playing with pets since almost 2 years now and I believe or hope, that I can give you justified insight :)

Overall Problems:

Pets health is plagued by several bugs at the moment. Pets were supposed to gain 5000 health in Cyrodiil and they do :) But the problem is, that pet health was reduced at the same time. Since this was not mentioned in the patchnotes, this must be a bug. See Pics below:

13495622_919008888221529_6035982757232195966_o.jpg
The Twilight used to have over 10k health in pve, now only 7k. Every scrub will agree, that something with 7k health is not able to survive anything in pve :)

13522694_919009414888143_8393392612561485416_o.jpg
In PvP it has 11k, so the intended 5000 only result in roughly 1000 more health than it used to be prior to this update.

13482909_919009321554819_7605655076320670046_o.jpg
The familiar was hit even harder. He used to have 21k health in pve, now only 16k. Since the decrease in health is different on all pets, I believe this is an unintended bug and not a structured change. These values are just weird :dizzy:

13490576_919009038221514_8655084741394579101_o.jpg
In pvp, it now has slightly less health than it used to have prior to this update.

In addition to that, pets (once they've been in combat) no longer seem to be able to heal themselves over 77% of their health with their HoT.

And now probably the biggest problem: Pets are still the only abilities in the game that are not affected by Champion points. This was acknowledged by Ericus Wrobel in an Eso live show :) this should have been changed with DB in my opinion. Pets must be affected by elemental expert, elfborn and spell erosion.

Individual Problems

The Storm Atronach

13522906_919013871554364_6053690280115976722_o.jpg

My biggest child and the one what worries me the most :)

Atronach spends 8 seconds of his 28 seconds duration doing nothing(provided you take the greater storm atronach)
When you summon it, it has to create itself first and this takes almost 4 seconds. These 4 seconds already count towards its duration.
Addionally, the Atronach makes 4 small breaks during his duration, each being roughly 1 second. So he spends 30% of his duration doing nothing, think about that :)
Every good DD can tell you, that 8 seconds of no incoming DPS is poison for your dps, turning this Ultimate into an invalid DPS option.

The Atronach either needs to get his cost reduced, his behavior changed to attack instantly and take no breaks, or have his duration increased.

The Atronach can't move and is CCable. Its ability to break CCs after 5 seconds is still not a good solution, an Ultimate shouldn't be THAT easy to counter
Look at Molag Kena's Atronachs.... They slowly move and are not CCable. Why don't you give Sorcerer the exact same copy of these things ? (without the explosion of course ahahahaha :D)

Daedric Prey

13502708_919014321554319_2079351121369289815_o.jpg

Simple thing. If you combine velocious curse+pets, the damage you cause will be significantly higher than the damage you cause with Daedric Prey+Pets.
As Pets currently lag any serious damage, increasing daedric prey's buff from 55% to 80% seems to be a reasonable solution.

Conjured Ward

13495549_919020968220321_5377815298644487480_o.jpg

Since this ablitiy was nerfed, this ability has taken a hard hit in terms of use for pets and it has become significantly harder to keep your pets alive.
It offers no support for your pets besides some protection. Conjured ward and its morphs should regain the 25% pet damage buff they used to provide and maybe grant pets a minor protection buff.

The concept of the summoner is great, you use a shield to support your pets. Please encourage this.

Twilight and Familiar

13497830_919024288219989_6877507243236263457_o.jpg

My Babies at least, they are cute, aren't they :blush: ? Well, I fear being cute is their main strenght :D

The Twilight Tormentor is what worries me the most. 50% more dmg vs targets above 50% health is not only a weird concept, but also a rather bad one :neutral: Making its ability useless for 50% of the fight.
A more usefull and reliable solution would be, to increase its damage based on the health percentage of the target.

Starting at 100% more damage vs targets with 100% health. 80% more damage vs targets with 80% health, 20% vs 20% etc etc :) So the overall damage increase of the twilight will be 50% and it remains usefull the entire fight. Right now, the Twilight Matriarch is the only viable morph option for this.


The Volatile Familiar

This ability should become an easier option for DPS. You have to reapply its effect every 4 seconds. This is very bad and a disadvantage for DPS.
It should pulse over 8 seconds and each 3rd pulse should be able to stun (as it is right now basically)

The Daedroth (Maw of the Infernal)

daedroth_1.jpg (not my picture)

ZoS was trying to make this set viable since quite some time, yet it doesn't seem to work. This set is one of these sets, that you just can't overbuff as it is right now. You don't need to be so carefull here :D

This set is just super bad.
Its proc chance must be signficiantly increased. Even spamming lightning staff heavy channels don't seem to proc it frequently.
Its duration must be increased to at least 25 seconds.
Health on the first piece is not usefull, we already have other monster sets granting this bonus.
Right now, I loose lots of Magicka and spell damage if I want to run this set. Its first piece MUST grant Magicka.

And lastly, it needs another speed or range buff. Its fire breath doesn't even seem to be able to hit slowly moving targets in pvp and pve :)

Passives

Rebate: Most useless passive in the game. We have hard times keeping our pets alive and the reward for seeing them die is fairly small.
Rather than restoring magicka when a pet dies, it should restore 0,5/1 percent of your magicka, when your pets deal damage to a target and this has a cooldown of 1 second.
Maybe even 0,5/1% stamina to make this interesting for stambuilds and tanks.

Summoner Expert: The health bonus from this passive is not usefull at all for summoners. Nightblades get 8% Magicka for free basically, Sorcerer needs to sacrifise 2-3 slots in order to gain that. Giving max magicka to this passive is not only fair, but actually usefull and that's how it should have been in the first place :)


So and that's it for now :) I have not brought up all my suggestions, as I wanted to keep this thread focused on Pet problems and bugs.
I hope this text wall didn't give you cancer. Auri-El bless you all (except when you are DC or EP of course, Lorkhan get you)
Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.

My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • Potenza
    Potenza
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    All more the reason I don't use them.
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    All more the reason I don't use them.

    Oh well :)
    We shouldn't forget, that someone using pets has to sacrifise 4-6 skill slots just to maintain them.
    You loose quite some versatility and utillity, making a pet build actually pretty hard to play. Because you have to rely on them so much.

    They should be worth it in my opinion.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • Special_Bradley
    Special_Bradley
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    Well your Thread could of been any more right, ZOS need to work more into the Summoning side. There is plenty of variety in the game but adding a Summoning Build would be awesome! Come on ZOS! :smiley:
    Ebonheart Loyalist - Xbox One EU

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  • Cronopoly
    Cronopoly
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    Preamble: i'm struggling with my magicka Sorc in PVP. She's just ineffective. Range means absolutely nothing especially that Gap closers are instant, with No cooldowns or vulnerabilities. Shuffle/Dodge Roll, and 2 second immunity from basically all damage. So I put my mage on the shelf.

    Then i saw the Maw Headpiece on the PVP store so I grabbed it since I already had the shoulders sitting in my bank.

    I combined this set with the one that spawns the Gold Greatsword weapon. So now I end up having 4 pets out at once. 2 permanent and 2 procced. Unfortunately it's all smoke and mirrors from what I could tell while testing. I had selected the Daedric Prey morph... You are spot on. It does not perform at all.

    I'm at a loss. Hoping for something. Now I'm hearing shuffle+ continuous dodge rolling may very well "Negate" Dot ticks from hitting a player in PVP at all even after being applied. Hopefully something will be revealed.

  • phairdon
    phairdon
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    My pets survivability is fine in pve. Gone through all public dungeons running a pet build without any issues.
    Your immersion is breaking my entitlement. Buff Sorc's. Darkshroud the cremator Death by furRubeus BlackFluffy knight BladesThe Fat PantherPsijic Fungal SausageFlesheater the VileCaspian Rafferty FernsbyArchfiend Warlock PiersThe Black BishopEvil Wizard Lizard (EU)Neberra Vestige Fajeon (EU)Salanis Deathstick (EU)Blood Mage Alchemist (EU)
  • Asmael
    Asmael
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    I had a duelling session, fighting various opponents. The results were crushing.

    Melee pets got, on average, 3% of the total damage. On one fight that lasted about 40 seconds, the scamp managed to hit twice, for (beware the crazy numbers) 640 damage...

    Now, the Twilight dealt a fair 15-20% depending on the fights, but realistically, it's still not good enough to favor Daedric prey over Velocious curse, considering it's the main offensive move against stamina builds (and dodge roll).

    I used the clannfear long ago, didn't bother lately, as he brings literally nothing to the table (smaller healing than Twilight matriarch, no AoE CC + damage, still atrociously low damage).

    Also, the daedroth from the Maw set is *** easy to kill. It takes 10 seconds with quite possibly the build with the lowest DPS in all of Tamriel, so I except most builds to kill it in... 2 seconds. At most.

    Another point: there's no way to track the pets' health at all time. In the middle of a fight, I got something else to do than just target a pet to know his remaining HP, especially if I have to do it for each of them.

    Finally: IT'S A FREAKING PAIN TO CONTROL THE PETS. Need an easy way to recall, set their behavior (aggressive, passive...), unsummon...
    PC EU - Zahraji of the Void, aka "Kitty", the fluffiest salmon genocider in town.
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  • Wollust
    Wollust
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    phairdon wrote: »
    My pets survivability is fine in pve. Gone through all public dungeons running a pet build without any issues.

    lol
    Susano'o

    Zerg Squad
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    I forgot to add 2 problems:

    The Twilight's attack range is not affected by Cyrodiil buffs. It's range seems to be 20 meters and this does not increase in Cyrodiil, neither by the Battle Spirit buff, and not by the Assault Keep buff (this might be alright, but battle spirit should affect it)

    Also, pets still don't stealth properly. They still follow their own In-Combat rules. So if the fight is already over for me and I can stealth, but my pets are still angry at someone and remain in combat, which makes them visible for players. Even though the ocular is closed for me and this shadowy thing appears around my pets.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Oh nice, I found something that is even more stupid.
    Pets are supposed to have a damage cap of 45% of their max health, so that they can only take 45% of their health per hit to prevent 1 shots.

    However, this damage cap only applies to base damage, crit ignore this cap.
    So my twilight has a damage cap of ~6,5k per hit. But it just received a 9,7k crit hit and died. If there is a cap, then it should be a hard limit.
    Edited by Dracane on June 26, 2016 2:15PM
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • DannyLV702
    DannyLV702
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    phairdon wrote: »
    My pets survivability is fine in pve. Gone through all public dungeons running a pet build without any issues.

    Double lol
  • Jar_Ek
    Jar_Ek
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    Add they don't scale with stamina.
    They cannot be kept alive by stamina builds (even vigour is hard work).
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Jar_Ek wrote: »
    Add they don't scale with stamina.
    They cannot be kept alive by stamina builds (even vigour is hard work).

    Pets also ignore purge, this wasn't the case prior to thieves guild. It's just weird, that they change so many mechanics without mentioning it.

    However, Eric commented on pet stamina scaling. They considered something with the Clannfear, but no clear answer on this.
    I hope that tomorrows PTS brings something, I really hope for CP scaling.

    But I feel you, not even conjured ward is enough to keep them alive in many situations. Especially in pvp, puncturing sweep being the main problem. You can't outshield it
    Edited by Dracane on June 26, 2016 3:37PM
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • GrumpyDuckling
    GrumpyDuckling
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    Very informative, well-thought-out thread. I really hope ZOS reads this @Dracane , as I see this as a good starting point for improving summons.
  • Averya_Teira
    Averya_Teira
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    phairdon wrote: »
    My pets survivability is fine in pve. Gone through all public dungeons running a pet build without any issues.

    Try doing a few Vet Dungeons with them and see them die constantly...
  • Slakk
    Slakk
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    They also take some body capped player buffs such as spell power cure and powerful assault and gain literally nothing.
  • Derra
    Derra
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    Pets should respawn 5s after they were killed without costs.
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • Jar_Ek
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    Vet dungeons, lol.
    Try fighting a swarm of wasps in Craglorn as a V16 and having the Clannfear die to them - that's stamina builds.
  • BlackguardBob
    BlackguardBob
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    phairdon wrote: »
    My pets survivability is fine in pve. Gone through all public dungeons running a pet build without any issues.

    Try doing a few Vet Dungeons with them and see them die constantly...


    I could say the same about RL players.

  • BlackguardBob
    BlackguardBob
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    Jar_Ek wrote: »
    Vet dungeons, lol.
    Try fighting a swarm of wasps in Craglorn as a V16 and having the Clannfear die to them - that's stamina builds.


    These wasps are OP imo. Besides which the pets aren't immune to death.
  • Beardimus
    Beardimus
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    Are there any Stamina pet Morphs?
    Xbox One | EU | EP
    Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
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  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Beardimus wrote: »
    Are there any Stamina pet Morphs?

    No. The Clannfear is the closest thing, but since Pets don't scale with Champion points, they are not that effective for Magicka and Stamina.

    But you could use Morkuldin, it performance quite well for stamina.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • GrumpyDuckling
    GrumpyDuckling
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    Finally got the Maw of Infernal full set this week. The OP is right on the money with his analysis of the set. The Daedroth rarely procs, and when it does it's painfully weak, dies quickly, and even if it manages to survive, it's duration is too short.
  • Cronopoly
    Cronopoly
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    I used the Morkuldin set while leveling my last two Alts, and was a blast, the proc rate was decent and the pet seemed to do more damage. While I hate to be negative, compared to the usefullness of Malubeth, Kena etc..this set is quite honestly more suited to a Crown Store Vanity Pet than actually being usefull in any way whatsoever.
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    I used the Morkuldin set while leveling my last two Alts, and was a blast, the proc rate was decent and the pet seemed to do more damage. While I hate to be negative, compared to the usefullness of Malubeth, Kena etc..this set is quite honestly more suited to a Crown Store Vanity Pet than actually being usefull in any way whatsoever.

    Morkuldin could be interesting for stamina Sorcerers I think.
    But I wouldn't use this set. The amount of magicka, spell damage and magical sustain I would loose is simply not realistic for what it does.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • Cronopoly
    Cronopoly
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    Dracane wrote: »
    I used the Morkuldin set while leveling my last two Alts, and was a blast, the proc rate was decent and the pet seemed to do more damage. While I hate to be negative, compared to the usefullness of Malubeth, Kena etc..this set is quite honestly more suited to a Crown Store Vanity Pet than actually being usefull in any way whatsoever.

    Morkuldin could be interesting for stamina Sorcerers I think.
    But I wouldn't use this set. The amount of magicka, spell damage and magical sustain I would loose is simply not realistic for what it does.

    You are absolutely correct. I used it on two Stamina based Alts while leveling so it made it fun at the time. One was of course my new Stam Sorc.
  • Minalan
    Minalan
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    I couldn't agree more on the passive changes.

    Ours are broken compared to most other classes.
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Minalan wrote: »
    I couldn't agree more on the passive changes.

    Ours are broken compared to most other classes.

    Sorcerer passives are rather boring and meaningless, I agree :)
    The only interesting mechanic we have is Implosion.

    I feel like Sorcerer is the most streamlined class. We have no special abilities and no surprises. We have a handfull of usefull abilities and that's it. We don't need much to work. But that's the reason, why there is no build diversity within this class.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • bebynnag
    bebynnag
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    i was on my stam sorc, and realised that none of the ultimates are stam sorc friendly,
    obviously an overload that scaled off physical, poison or disease damage would b amazing.

    but what if... once morphed we had ability to summon a flesh atronach doing poison or disease damage!

    admittedly i havent taken a proper look at my pets for a long time, but i do remember pets used to scale off physical damage, so i thought it would be a viable option on my stam sorc, but alas no. :'( if anyone has tried this recently & consider them a viable option please do let me know (im a bit short on skill points to have a play)

  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    i was on my stam sorc, and realised that none of the ultimates are stam sorc friendly,
    obviously an overload that scaled off physical, poison or disease damage would b amazing.

    but what if... once morphed we had ability to summon a flesh atronach doing poison or disease damage!

    admittedly i havent taken a proper look at my pets for a long time, but i do remember pets used to scale off physical damage, so i thought it would be a viable option on my stam sorc, but alas no. :'( if anyone has tried this recently & consider them a viable option please do let me know (im a bit short on skill points to have a play)

    But right now, Dawnbreaker is all you could ever want :) Even I as a magicka Sorc use dawnbreaker.
    When it comes to negate magicka, it doesn't really matter if magicka or stamina. It's good in both hands.
    The Atronach is useless for both and well overload as you said.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • bebynnag
    bebynnag
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    Dracane wrote: »
    i was on my stam sorc, and realised that none of the ultimates are stam sorc friendly,
    obviously an overload that scaled off physical, poison or disease damage would b amazing.

    but what if... once morphed we had ability to summon a flesh atronach doing poison or disease damage!

    admittedly i havent taken a proper look at my pets for a long time, but i do remember pets used to scale off physical damage, so i thought it would be a viable option on my stam sorc, but alas no. :'( if anyone has tried this recently & consider them a viable option please do let me know (im a bit short on skill points to have a play)

    But right now, Dawnbreaker is all you could ever want :) Even I as a magicka Sorc use dawnbreaker.
    When it comes to negate magicka, it doesn't really matter if magicka or stamina. It's good in both hands.
    The Atronach is useless for both and well overload as you said.

    i love my dawnbreaker dont get me wrong, and as a WW i have my ultimates sorted.... i just though how amazingly disgusting it would be to summon a flesh antronach. LOL
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