Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@Celas_Dranacea but this is what the new players really experience before they even come to these forums. ZOS just added support for Japanese customers. They announced it at E3. And this is their experience.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274409/should-i-just-give-up#latest

is that supposed to be proof that Zos doesn't care about their game? I thought that is what we are discussing.

Maybe it's just me, but if I were starting to a play a game like this in the first few weeks it launched on a new Japanese server, I would expect issues.

It's too bad lag and animation problems are a part of this game, but yeah it's part of the experience. To me it's still very much worth it to play, especially since I've seen a very solid response from Zos on issues across the board.

Folks have a right to complain, and I don't believe these complaints are falling on deaf ears.

@Celas_Dranacea Unfortunately there is no such thing as a "Japanese Server". Player from Japan will play on the NA server, which has been there since March / April 2014.

Or alternatively, as those paying for a service, we can reasonably expect to get our money's worth. And we can/will/have quit funding this when things venture outside of what we deem acceptable. You're welcome to extol the virtues of the game, we are equally entitled to ask that things be fixed. Some have a tone issue, sure, but some of the white knights also purposefully turn a blind eye to the many faults. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

And the "casuals" who don't care about competition are equally attached to the "hardcore" players. It's a symbiotic relationship.

Ravinsild wrote: »

rootimus wrote: »

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

I was about to respond in more detail but realized quickly that your post was not intended to be productive with comments like "Matt Frior's job is to get paid and do nothing."

What are you arguing for? Are you basically just saying that the game is crap and people should leave? If so, you're entitled to your opinion.

I don't think the game is crap, my experience was good when it started despite the issues and has only improved over time.

In any business, there are certain customers you can never satisfy, it's totally normal and they have a right to leave. A good portion of these customers for eso live on the forums,

Ah, the old "you said something that, despite being perfectly true, is 'mean' and 'unfair', therefore I'll write you off as a troll" routine.

What I'd like to see (no point arguing for it when Zenimax are immovable on the subject) is for them to employ professional, qualified, talented and passionate staff who will fix the current game and then ensure that subsequent additions aren't bug-ridden, half-assed and theoretically good additions with terrible execution. I genuinely check the Zenimax recruitment page on occasion, but the company doesn't yet seem to realise they have an opening for someone who owns the ESO product. When they do, I'll apply.

A professional product, crafted with pride, love and enthusiasm is a long-term cash cow. You'd think the parent company's owners would like that.

Exactly. This game often feels like a soulless cash-in. It does not have the polish and passion behind it that other MMOs have (WoW, FFXIV:ARR...Yoshida literally released an entire new class in a patch FOR FREE because, and I quote, "I think the players would like that.")

Nothing is free in a game with a required monthly sub that charges for expansions on top of that.

Ravinsild wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Ravinsild wrote: »

rootimus wrote: »

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

I was about to respond in more detail but realized quickly that your post was not intended to be productive with comments like "Matt Frior's job is to get paid and do nothing."

What are you arguing for? Are you basically just saying that the game is crap and people should leave? If so, you're entitled to your opinion.

I don't think the game is crap, my experience was good when it started despite the issues and has only improved over time.

In any business, there are certain customers you can never satisfy, it's totally normal and they have a right to leave. A good portion of these customers for eso live on the forums,

Ah, the old "you said something that, despite being perfectly true, is 'mean' and 'unfair', therefore I'll write you off as a troll" routine.

What I'd like to see (no point arguing for it when Zenimax are immovable on the subject) is for them to employ professional, qualified, talented and passionate staff who will fix the current game and then ensure that subsequent additions aren't bug-ridden, half-assed and theoretically good additions with terrible execution. I genuinely check the Zenimax recruitment page on occasion, but the company doesn't yet seem to realise they have an opening for someone who owns the ESO product. When they do, I'll apply.

A professional product, crafted with pride, love and enthusiasm is a long-term cash cow. You'd think the parent company's owners would like that.

Exactly. This game often feels like a soulless cash-in. It does not have the polish and passion behind it that other MMOs have (WoW, FFXIV:ARR...Yoshida literally released an entire new class in a patch FOR FREE because, and I quote, "I think the players would like that.")

Nothing is free in a game with a required monthly sub that charges for expansions on top of that.

It's a better model objectively, because it's far more fair. However only actual good games can survive on that model. FFXIV failed...but came back from the Ashes with A Realm Reborn as a Warcraft style sub-model and has succeeded tremendously. This game started out as a sub-model like all the others and failed into Buy To Play like GW2 and all the other failures.

Only World of Warcraft and FFXIV are modern MMOs that have sustained this model. ZO$ meanwhile charges an arm and a leg for /everything/ to keep this shipwreck afloat.

I was hoping Tamriel Unlimited would be the phoenix from the ashes that A Realm Reborn was but alas...these incompetent developers can't seem to polish their game up and get it functioning on a reliable level.

I can't wait for all of the new battle leveling bugs after One Tamriel comes out. For the first week some of us will be OP till they fix it. History points in this direction. No one gets it on their first time but after this many patches they should have a better system than what is shown for bugged patches. Hurry up Mark Jacobs we need you more than ever to finish CU. These devs are running out of the content your team wrote before launch.

The_Patriarch wrote: »

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

I think ZOS cares. They have taken a lot of feedback from players and put it in the game. Things like crafting bags, armor dyes, and now costume dyes and even more. Just because it takes them a while to implement it and it's not exactly how you want it to be implemented doesn't mean they don't care. Just be glad they added it in the first place.

Yep. They care enough to implement cosmetic changes that cost more $$. People have been clamoring about server stability issues since IC. On the contrary, things have been getting much worse. We console user simply can't go to particular zones (Elden Root, Orsinium) without ZOS having to "rescue" our characters by porting them to a zone where we can log into them.

To be fair, FFXIV is a P2P game, so it's not really "for free".

Japanese people also have a very high sense of pride in their work and it often shows In the end. ZOS seems to have no real pride In their work and only go to work for their 9-5 paychecks...

If we don't hear from you within 48 hours, we will consider this matter closed.

andreasv wrote: »

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@Celas_Dranacea but this is what the new players really experience before they even come to these forums. ZOS just added support for Japanese customers. They announced it at E3. And this is their experience.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274409/should-i-just-give-up#latest

is that supposed to be proof that Zos doesn't care about their game? I thought that is what we are discussing.

Maybe it's just me, but if I were starting to a play a game like this in the first few weeks it launched on a new Japanese server, I would expect issues.

It's too bad lag and animation problems are a part of this game, but yeah it's part of the experience. To me it's still very much worth it to play, especially since I've seen a very solid response from Zos on issues across the board.

Folks have a right to complain, and I don't believe these complaints are falling on deaf ears.

@Celas_Dranacea Unfortunately there is no such thing as a "Japanese Server". Player from Japan will play on the NA server, which has been there since March / April 2014.

I was responding to whatever link the previous guy posted, I thought it was referring to the new Japan server, which I didn't think was active yet, but whatever.

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

The only thing ZOS cares about now is crown store item development. Hence the new poison costume, and the unfixed console thaumaturge cp bug.

Clearly you aren't interested in being taken seriously with an over the top comment like that.

Quiet Wrobel, and get back to work!

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

rootimus wrote: »

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

I appreciate the relatively civil tone of your post.

Personally, my experience has been that Zos does care very much. They have consistently responded to feedback with substantive communication to the community and real improvements to the game. Just some examples that have been particularly relevant to me over the past year:

- Implementation of cp cap and catchup mechanic
- Improvements to siege in Cyrodil, new objectives on the way, new ways to bust up zergs with skillful play, improvements to the latency issue
- The new goal of scaling all zones to allow new and old players to play together
- Really cool dlc content
- Improvements to classes like stam sorc and stam dk, and generally much better balance across classes overall
- crafting bags, and the upcoming race changes

Etc etc. I've seen people passionately argue for these things, and zos has responded.

This game is not perfect and by all means more feedback is necessary, but my experience has been that Zos listens and cares very much.

I feel compelled to respond with stuff like this because I'm concerned newer people learning about the game on the forums will get the wrong impression, and I want more people to play with.

And yet we have launch day bugs that we can't even get a dev to say are being worked on, launch day bugs that devs only find out about after 2 years because none of them play their own game, basic features still missing from the game (mail client, guild management tools, API, etc) and a community team that seems beweildered at best when you mention ESO (though @ZOS_AlanG deserves a shoutout for making some effort).

As for your "Really cool dlc(sic) content", beauty is in the eye of the beholder - having to grind daily grind-quests just to unlock the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood story lines is doubleplus ungood. Sweeping changes to classes this far into the game's life says that they probably have the wrong people doing that job, crafting bags should have been in the game from the start, they're remaining dead silent on how messing up rune farming is doing with their goal of getting more people into enchanting.

Problems get swept under the rug or "fixed" with a minimum effort solution - why fix the stacking bug in the guild bank when we can just stick two fingers up at the players and disable stacking? Lag in Cyrodiil? Lets have fewer campaigns so that less people can get out there - automatic lag reduction for minimum effort. Not to mention they got rid of the Wabbajack campaign, for which there really should be some kind of punishment.

When I played Eve, Jessica Folsom's counterpart was not just active on the forum, posting substantive answers, he also did various Twitch streams, took part on player-run shows and, shockingly, played the game. Many of the other devs did the same. Though I never experienced it myself, I've heard many tales in recent years of GMs contacting new players just to see how they're doing and answer questions. Does this game even have GMs? Best I can tell, it has an outsourced call center when they collect messages and do nothing with them, because ZOS aren't willing to talk about anything that isn't a carefully prepared PR statement on whatever they're currently trying to wow us with.

I tell ya, I wish I had Matt Frior's job - getting paid a small fortune to do nothing.

I could go on, but those rose-tinted glasses of yours are quite stylish and very distracting. Do they come in Khajiit?

I was about to respond in more detail but realized quickly that your post was not intended to be productive with comments like "Matt Frior's job is to get paid and do nothing."

What are you arguing for? Are you basically just saying that the game is crap and people should leave? If so, you're entitled to your opinion.

I don't think the game is crap, my experience was good when it started despite the issues and has only improved over time.

Agreed.

People. Customer Support does not represent ZeniMax Online Studios as a whole. Please stop lumping everyone under the same umbrella. ZOS is a company, and the Customer Support representatives are supposed to be that: representatives of the support team from ZeniMax Online Studios. They do not represent the intentions of the actual dev team and other people at ZOS at all. I have no idea why Matt Firor had to be brought into discussion. The game devs have nothing to do with the CS representatives' responses to our issues.

The devs are working hard to always cater to players with this game, providing fixes and new content regularly ever since the Imperial City DLC came out. They've been doing a great job with this game since then, and I'm proud to say that I'm an ESO Plus sub because I want to support them more so than ever before in continuing to Make Tamriel Great Again. (oh lawd, my sides )

That being said, if this guy was a real Customer Support representative (which I heavily doubt, it seems to be a bot to me), then we'd have seen a response by now about something regarding naming and shaming. But I haven't seen anything yet, so it makes me think the "person's name" that sent these emails is actually an alias for a bot that just sends out a blanket response to anyone with a support ticket placed in or certain key terms in their support ticket. Who knows at this point, really?

But, if this is a real Customer Support representative, then I think ZOS needs to seriously consider getting proper representatives for their company because responses from people like that are going to make people like me just stop playing the game altogether again. No joke when I say that I'm on my last string with CS from this game now. I don't even want to play this game anymore due to all the issues I've had with them because the game is in an unplayable state for a lot of us, yet we're being told that they won't do anything to help us.

Not because they CAN'T help us but because they simply WON'T due to there being an overwhelming amount of tickets.

So...why not close the Support Ticket system from receiving any new ones and just handle the existing ones in the meantime until they could be reopened again instead?

*sighs*

rootimus wrote: »

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

I was about to respond in more detail but realized quickly that your post was not intended to be productive with comments like "Matt Frior's job is to get paid and do nothing."

What are you arguing for? Are you basically just saying that the game is crap and people should leave? If so, you're entitled to your opinion.

I don't think the game is crap, my experience was good when it started despite the issues and has only improved over time.

In any business, there are certain customers you can never satisfy, it's totally normal and they have a right to leave. A good portion of these customers for eso live on the forums,

Ah, the old "you said something that, despite being perfectly true, is 'mean' and 'unfair', therefore I'll write you off as a troll" routine.

What I'd like to see (no point arguing for it when Zenimax are immovable on the subject) is for them to employ professional, qualified, talented and passionate staff who will fix the current game and then ensure that subsequent additions aren't bug-ridden, half-assed and theoretically good additions with terrible execution. I genuinely check the Zenimax recruitment page on occasion, but the company doesn't yet seem to realise they have an opening for someone who owns the ESO product. When they do, I'll apply.

A professional product, crafted with pride, love and enthusiasm is a long-term cash cow. You'd think the parent company's owners would like that.

If your intention was ever to somehow influence ZOS, you prevented yourself from doing this the moment you started insulting their employees.

I totally agree with the last paragraph of this post - if you had just stated this and said "ZOS - we know you can do better with quality control" I would be in total agreement with you.

If you believe that ZOS employees are unqualified, half ass everything and execute terribly on everything they do, then you are entitled to your opinion... But I don't think it's gonna help you get a job there.