How can an online game get dungeon queues and waits so terribly wrong?

CombatPrayer · June 2016

I tried five times to get into a dungeon today. Attempt 1 - three people because the system never got the fourth right. We finished it. I had to be a healer and damager to do it. But we did it. The next four times - 1 hour wait before I logged of and did other stuff. One time in a dungeon with only thee people in our group. Seriously, how did they screw this up so badly?! Mass Effect 3 had better grouping that this system and they were not even online gaming when they put it together. I get that they have certain criteria for vocations but that cannot be the reason a person has to wait an hour to get nothing. It's an online game! And they can't even get the online gaming part right in this case. GROUPS. All about the groups. But getting four players in a dungeon together takes over an hour? That's got to be the most backward system to date. Shameful for an online game.

I'm just..... I have no more words for this. Bioware got this down better than ZOS and they don't specialize in online games. It's bloody comical.

UltimaJoe777 · June 2016

autumnsongbird wrote: »

I tried five times to get into a dungeon today. Attempt 1 - three people because the system never got the fourth right. We finished it. I had to be a healer and damager to do it. But we did it. The next four times - 1 hour wait before I logged of and did other stuff. One time in a dungeon with only thee people in our group. Seriously, how did they screw this up so badly?! Mass Effect 3 had better grouping that this system and they were not even online gaming when they put it together. I get that they have certain criteria for vocations but that cannot be the reason a person has to wait an hour to get nothing. It's an online game! And they can't even get the online gaming part right in this case. GROUPS. All about the groups. But getting four players in a dungeon together takes over an hour? That's got to be the most backward system to date. Shameful for an online game.

I'm just..... I have no more words for this. Bioware got this down better than ZOS and they don't specialize in online games. It's bloody comical.

You're pinning 2 bad instances on Zenimax? If it was a dozen it'd be understandable but you just had bad luck was all.

Johngo0036 · June 2016

you must also remember that if someone has more than just one roll selected it screws up the whole dungeon finder,

EG, some one selects tank and DPS in the group window, dungeon finder goes crazy...

notimetocare · June 2016

Almost always a player issue, especially if you are not post 50.

As far as the grouping tool, it's had some recent bugs.

Comparing bioware and a massive budget to a game company in their first mmo with likely far less of a budget... why don't you go code up a grouping tool that is perfect?

DRXHarbinger · June 2016

^ Ummm I think Bethesda and Zenimax are likely to have a very healthy budget...whether they want to spend it or not is another matter. I do sit there and wonder at times thinking there must be at least 3 other people who want to play via group finder even sitting as a healer it's takes ages now.

notimetocare · June 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

^ Ummm I think Bethesda and Zenimax are likely to have a very healthy budget...whether they want to spend it or not is another matter. I do sit there and wonder at times thinking there must be at least 3 other people who want to play via group finder even sitting as a healer it's takes ages now.

You assume Zenimax online has access to Bethesda or Zenimax (parent company ) funds

iLawyeredYou · June 2016

Dungeon finders are notorious for broken functionality across most MMOs that is why text chat is such a wonderful thing

DRXHarbinger · June 2016

notimetocare wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

^ Ummm I think Bethesda and Zenimax are likely to have a very healthy budget...whether they want to spend it or not is another matter. I do sit there and wonder at times thinking there must be at least 3 other people who want to play via group finder even sitting as a healer it's takes ages now.

You assume Zenimax online has access to Bethesda or Zenimax (parent company ) funds

They would had to have funded it in the first place.

Solid_Metal · June 2016

autumnsongbird wrote: »

I tried five times to get into a dungeon today. Attempt 1 - three people because the system never got the fourth right. We finished it. I had to be a healer and damager to do it. But we did it. The next four times - 1 hour wait before I logged of and did other stuff. One time in a dungeon with only thee people in our group. Seriously, how did they screw this up so badly?! Mass Effect 3 had better grouping that this system and they were not even online gaming when they put it together. I get that they have certain criteria for vocations but that cannot be the reason a person has to wait an hour to get nothing. It's an online game! And they can't even get the online gaming part right in this case. GROUPS. All about the groups. But getting four players in a dungeon together takes over an hour? That's got to be the most backward system to date. Shameful for an online game.

I'm just..... I have no more words for this. Bioware got this down better than ZOS and they don't specialize in online games. It's bloody comical.

what is you role?, DPS?, if so, then that is your problem , even FF14 ahve problem on dungeon finder because of the abundant ammount of DPS player

and for additional note, dungeon finder works fine before, but currently quite broken in DB update, so thats other reason

Azurya · June 2016

autumnsongbird wrote: »

I tried five times to get into a dungeon today. Attempt 1 - three people because the system never got the fourth right. We finished it. I had to be a healer and damager to do it. But we did it. The next four times - 1 hour wait before I logged of and did other stuff. One time in a dungeon with only thee people in our group. Seriously, how did they screw this up so badly?! Mass Effect 3 had better grouping that this system and they were not even online gaming when they put it together. I get that they have certain criteria for vocations but that cannot be the reason a person has to wait an hour to get nothing. It's an online game! And they can't even get the online gaming part right in this case. GROUPS. All about the groups. But getting four players in a dungeon together takes over an hour? That's got to be the most backward system to date. Shameful for an online game.

I'm just..... I have no more words for this. Bioware got this down better than ZOS and they don't specialize in online games. It's bloody comical.

you are yourself clear about the fact that you critisize the Groupfinder and not the dungeons as such??
Perhaps you should change the title of your thread, and with search-function you would have find already enough threads concerning this!!!

Martinus72 · June 2016

iLawyeredYou wrote: »

Dungeon finders are notorious for broken functionality across most MMOs that is why text chat is such a wonderful thing

Where did you see those 'most' MMOs because in those I have played for years ( WoW, Rift, Swtor, FFXIV) Dungeon Finder always worked perfectly fine.
As much as I love ESO and support Zeni, there's no excuse to not have reliable and functioning tool for finding groups, absolutely not.

notimetocare · June 2016

Martinus72 wrote: »

iLawyeredYou wrote: »

Dungeon finders are notorious for broken functionality across most MMOs that is why text chat is such a wonderful thing

Where did you see those 'most' MMOs because in those I have played for years ( WoW, Rift, Swtor, FFXIV) Dungeon Finder always worked perfectly fine.
As much as I love ESO and support Zeni, there's no excuse to not have reliable and functioning tool for finding groups, absolutely not.

WoW dungeon finder broke quite often when it was new. Difference is funding and the associated manpower to fix it.

notimetocare · June 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

^ Ummm I think Bethesda and Zenimax are likely to have a very healthy budget...whether they want to spend it or not is another matter. I do sit there and wonder at times thinking there must be at least 3 other people who want to play via group finder even sitting as a healer it's takes ages now.

You assume Zenimax online has access to Bethesda or Zenimax (parent company ) funds

They would had to have funded it in the first place.

A startup? Sure. Funding for life? Unlikely

CombatPrayer · June 2016

On budget.... so where does that $12-15 a month go? All that crown money go? They have steady revenue and that doesn't count as a budget? That's more than BW had. You did not pay monthly for their online option. It was 100% free with you buying packs if you wanted.

Bioware was not a dedicated online game. They did it as an extra and sure they had a budget just like this game does. My point is that this game IS an online game. I searched to see if it was me and all the way back to 2014 at launch this has come up where people would say they waited forever to get in dungeons and gave up.

If people have two selected it should work that it takes the one it needs and fills it. If you have tank and dps checked then if it needs DPS it grabs you. If it needs Tank it grabs you. Having two selected should make it say 'okay, this one is a match to the one I need.' Having two selected should make it easier to group people because that person says I DO BOTH and can fill both slots. It should double the odds of you going into the game rather than making it slower.

Bioware got it right in their very first venture into online gaming. Nailed it! Years our people were still playing and the only time I could not get it was when I did not have my maps up to date. They just needed to keep the maps coming and it probably still would have been kicking butt like it was at start up.

I was healer and it was over an hour wait. I switched to DPS because in my three person party I had to be dps to get us through or it would have taken forever. It made my job much harder, and i feel I was a bit less efficient as a healer because I had to have much better timing to be sure I swapped to healing at the right time and had enough magicka to maintain all of that (healers get magicka back from restore staff but doing damage doesn't give you that nearly as much). Yet even when the wait was not listed as over an hour for dps, I waited for over an hour and never got in. That kind of sucks. No, that really sucks. A whole day with me waiting in a queue and got in once with a party of only three people. Shameful.

CombatPrayer · June 2016

Azurya wrote: »

you are yourself clear about the fact that you critisize the Groupfinder and not the dungeons as such??
Perhaps you should change the title of your thread, and with search-function you would have find already enough threads concerning this!!!

That's my point! Clearly this is an issue they have yet to resolve since launch. People still have problems with it. I will not say 'oh well, people already know this is a problem so I won't bother mentioning it. That's not how things get fixed. I have a right to come here and make another thread about it. It's absurd that group finder is so horrible.

Solid_Metal wrote: »

what is you role?, DPS?, if so, then that is your problem , even FF14 ahve problem on dungeon finder because of the abundant ammount of DPS player

and for additional note, dungeon finder works fine before, but currently quite broken in DB update, so thats other reason

Well, that was what? One or two weeks ago. How long does it take to fix it? Two I think. No? I was a healer and switched to dps. It was listed as over an hour for healer and tank. It was over an hour for dps too.

psxfloh · June 2016

autumnsongbird wrote: »

I was healer [...] I switched to DPS

off topic: Get used to it!

I used to be a 100% healer, but started spending too much of my time standing around waiting for incoming damage. As your teammates get more proficient, or in better groups, a healer should definitely do DPS, throwing only the occasional heal if things get hairy or during some of the harder boss-fights. For everything else a rapid regen will do the job, you'll just have to figure out when more's needed..
And you know what? Content will eventually be easier with more DPS, instead of harder due to less healing!

CombatPrayer · June 2016

Okay, just now, we get four people, one doesn't show. We start after several minutes of waiting because I did this dungeon with three. One quits in less than two minutes. I get pulled out and try to get back into the queue and I have to wait 9 minutes. I am penalized for NO VALID REASON. My party disbanded after one person didn't show and the queue didn't deliver another in a reasonable amount of time.

Better game design right here would be:

Those first mobs should be relatively survivable with three so the people can at least get part way through and get some nice loot. Working off the BW model that was pretty good. It would put your already started game to the top of the queue for filling that slot. It would bring people in once you started. I could begin solo and have a full party by third wave. I would get one or two in the first few waves. Often it would fill up along the way well before third but almost always by third except on gold and sometimes silver levels. But at least you could get something out of it. They should implement a partial reward system that is prorated for your progress rather than completion if they have not already. That way people would start the dungeon and get loot for what they do and if they could do a few mobs and smaller bosses at least it would not be wasted.

Secondly, why penalize people for a broken system? Making people wait to get back in a queue that doesn't deliver is a terrible idea. I suppose it is to keep people from quitting but do you think that really bothers them? If they are going to quit they will. But here I didn't even quit. I was the last in my group that chose to disband and I have to wait. That is flawed.

KaleidoscopeEyz · June 2016

Make your own friends. Problem solved.

CombatPrayer · June 2016

psxfloh wrote: »

autumnsongbird wrote: »

I was healer [...] I switched to DPS

off topic: Get used to it!
I used to be a 100% healer, but started spending too much of my time standing around waiting for incoming damage. As your teammates get more proficient, or in better groups, a healer should definitely do DPS, throwing only the occasional heal if things get hairy or during some of the harder boss-fights. For everything else a rapid regen will do the job, you'll just have to figure out when more's needed..
And you know what? Content will eventually be easier with more DPS, instead of harder due to less healing!

The groups I have been in with both under and over 50 needed me healing fairly often. A few needed it to be a near full time job but some were less so. I think it depends on the group. Random is luck of the draw I think.

emily3989 · June 2016

notimetocare wrote: »

Martinus72 wrote: »

iLawyeredYou wrote: »

Dungeon finders are notorious for broken functionality across most MMOs that is why text chat is such a wonderful thing

Where did you see those 'most' MMOs because in those I have played for years ( WoW, Rift, Swtor, FFXIV) Dungeon Finder always worked perfectly fine.
As much as I love ESO and support Zeni, there's no excuse to not have reliable and functioning tool for finding groups, absolutely not.

WoW dungeon finder broke quite often when it was new. Difference is funding and the associated manpower to fix it.

So is dungeon finder in this game considered "new" still?

CombatPrayer · June 2016

Just now, same thing. I keep going to the same place. Spindleclutch... is that the name? Yesterday and today this is the only dungeon I am getting into and one always seems to quit I think when they see the name. Is this the sucks badly dungeon? Maybe the random dungeon finder should allow people to choose which one they want to go to. This was also something BW did. You could put all. You could avoid certain ones. Or pick certain foes. That would increase your wait because you were being selective but it would minimize random quitting which seems like an issue here. I don't see a way to select certain ones to go to or not go to. Sure, it would take a little more effort to implement that system, but it would beat having people drop out of ones they dont' like which I think is what is going on here.

Also, 13 minute wait after the second person said 'eff it' and dropped out. So again I am being penalized for someone not joining. Actually, I think they chose the later option. I think they declined the group because they are doing other things having gotten frustrated with the wait. In BW, you had to be on the MP side of it. Perhaps having people make that choice to go to 'GROUP' MP aspect would be better than them saying later and having the queue never get that other person (I've not seen that happen yet in this game). Sure, they have to say I am MP only but if they don't like the wait times, they leave and it resolves the 'later' option.

I think all these things are just effing it all up. They are like wrenches in the spokes and each one might not be a big deal but together it means the queue is going to be very bogged down.