Drinks vs Food - Still Unbalanced

holosoul · June 2016

@tnanever as magicka builds we like having additional max stam/max health, and while having stam regen instead of max stam might work for many builds it probably won't if it's the difference between 2 dodges/break frees and 1 in a burst window

thus you'll see a lot of magicka players running tri food in pvp, and stam players running drinks or legendary food
you'll note the price of perfect roe is quite high, despite that you can farm 5 of them in an hour easily; but you say no one cares about regen food hmmm? I guess everyone is only using perfect roe on xp pots? xp pots are popular, to be sure; yet what do you think the most ideal pvp food is for a stamina build? Oh! a tri drink that also gives you 4k health, hmmm...

there is a balance and there are choices that are more or less suitable to a specific situation and build which vary even depending on the circumstance. it doesn't have to be equal or balanced because all of the options are available to everyone, and instead we have dynamic and situational choice

Vangy · June 2016

holosoul wrote: »

@tnanever as magicka builds we like having additional max stam/max health, and while having stam regen instead of max stam might work for many builds it probably won't if it's the difference between 2 dodges/break frees and 1 in a burst window

thus you'll see a lot of magicka players running tri food in pvp, and stam players running drinks or legendary food
you'll note the price of perfect roe is quite high, despite that you can farm 5 of them in an hour easily; but you say no one cares about regen food hmmm? I guess everyone is only using perfect roe on xp pots? xp pots are popular, to be sure; yet what do you think the most ideal pvp food is for a stamina build? Oh! a tri drink that also gives you 4k health, hmmm...

there is a balance and there are choices that are more or less suitable to a specific situation and build which vary even depending on the circumstance. it doesn't have to be equal or balanced because all of the options are available to everyone, and instead we have dynamic and situational choice

Thank the high heavens. Finally a voice of reason. Im done trying to explain to this OP why foods and drinks are balanced. Take over please.

tnanever · June 2016

Vangy wrote: »

The tiny wee bit of difference could be to a MULTITUDE of reasons. One being dual stat drinks could possibly be more popular than tri stat drinks while tri stat food is more popular than dual stat food... By your logic, v16 gear needs to be even better cos v14 mats cost *** tons more than v16 mats.... Clearly that isnt the case.....

Also, still waiting for you to tell me why food is OP. Or are you going to ignore that question for like the 4th time....

There is not a "tiny wee bit of difference" - it's literally multiple times the cost. It's often hundreds of percent different. What world do you live in? From you equating to "hardly ever" to 1 out of 4...here's some free advice: never go to Vegas.

tnanever · June 2016

holosoul wrote: »

@tnanever as magicka builds we like having additional max stam/max health, and while having stam regen instead of max stam might work for many builds it probably won't if it's the difference between 2 dodges/break frees and 1 in a burst window

thus you'll see a lot of magicka players running tri food in pvp, and stam players running drinks or legendary food
you'll note the price of perfect roe is quite high, despite that you can farm 5 of them in an hour easily; but you say no one cares about regen food hmmm? I guess everyone is only using perfect roe on xp pots? xp pots are popular, to be sure; yet what do you think the most ideal pvp food is for a stamina build? Oh! a tri drink that also gives you 4k health, hmmm...

there is a balance and there are choices that are more or less suitable to a specific situation and build which vary even depending on the circumstance. it doesn't have to be equal or balanced because all of the options are available to everyone, and instead we have dynamic and situational choice

I never said nobody cares about food regen - in fact, I alluded to the exact opposite of what you're claiming, which is combining both regen and max stats (I'm aware of the very few recipes that do this).

Edited to remove personal attack

holosoul · June 2016

@tnanever maybe because frost miriam is the material used to make tri stat food, but perfect roe is used to make legendary drink. there is no legendary stat food
thus the most dear commodities have the highest value
because anyone considering a tri drink can have a quad drink instead for minimal sacrifice and great gain
so where does that leave the value of bervez juice?

holosoul · June 2016

DocFrost72 · June 2016

tnanever wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

[spam redacted]
...
Understand my POV or should I just accept this as a lost cause?
...
[spam redacted]

I know your POV but it's irrelevant. Just about everyone realizes that drinks can be better sometimes. That's the whole point of this thread - sometimes. Food is generally more desirable, which shouldn't be the case.

Unsure if "I'm right you're wrong" or just trolling. Meh, I'll bite.

Foods are better for PvE, drinks for PvP. There, seems pretty cut and dry. If you want one or the other to be dominant in both PvE or PvP, that is called imbalance.

As for your anger over max stat stuffs, I agree there. I'd love to see soft caps again, makes contentscaling much easier. Would probably diversify champ points too.

Vangy · June 2016

tnanever wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

The tiny wee bit of difference could be to a MULTITUDE of reasons. One being dual stat drinks could possibly be more popular than tri stat drinks while tri stat food is more popular than dual stat food... By your logic, v16 gear needs to be even better cos v14 mats cost *** tons more than v16 mats.... Clearly that isnt the case.....

Also, still waiting for you to tell me why food is OP. Or are you going to ignore that question for like the 4th time....

There is not a "tiny wee bit of difference" - it's literally multiple times the cost. It's often hundreds of percent different. What world do you live in? From you equating to "hardly ever" to 1 out of 4...here's some free advice: never go to Vegas.

Again your missing the point... Which @holosoul pointed out nicely. Legendary food is much more popular than tri-stat drinks... While dual stat and tri-stat food is always popular.... So berez juice is hardly ever used...... Again, you make no convincing arguments yet keep spewing insults at people..... Btw, id be careful about naming people in your posts under a negative light regardless of how you feel about the situation. Normally results in a forum ban... That's my advice to you lol. As for vegas, ive been there quite a few times and I do enjoy the place.

tnanever · June 2016

holosoul wrote: »

@tnanever maybe because frost miriam is the material used to make tri stat food, but perfect roe is used to make legendary drink. there is no legendary stat food
thus the most dear commodities have the highest value
because anyone considering a tri drink can have a quad drink instead for minimal sacrifice and great gain
so where does that leave the value of bervez juice?

I think you would only have a case if, out of the total amount of food/drink consumed in the game, most of what was consumed are of those specific foods/drinks that you mentioned.

Given that:

1) I always see juice sold much cheaper than frost mirriam at guild traders, including guild traders at low level areas, and
2) We have a significant leveling population.

It seems safe to assume that most of the food/drink being consumed by the playerbase isn't what you specified in your post.

tnanever · June 2016

DocFrost72 wrote: »

tnanever wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

[spam redacted]
...
Understand my POV or should I just accept this as a lost cause?
...
[spam redacted]

I know your POV but it's irrelevant. Just about everyone realizes that drinks can be better sometimes. That's the whole point of this thread - sometimes. Food is generally more desirable, which shouldn't be the case.

Unsure if "I'm right you're wrong" or just trolling. Meh, I'll bite.

Foods are better for PvE, drinks for PvP. There, seems pretty cut and dry. If you want one or the other to be dominant in both PvE or PvP, that is called imbalance.

As for your anger over max stat stuffs, I agree there. I'd love to see soft caps again, makes contentscaling much easier. Would probably diversify champ points too.

Regarding on food or drink being dominant: I'm actually promoting the complete opposite of your implication - both food or drink being generally valuable equally, in both pvp and pve.

tnanever · June 2016

Vangy wrote: »

tnanever wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

The tiny wee bit of difference could be to a MULTITUDE of reasons. One being dual stat drinks could possibly be more popular than tri stat drinks while tri stat food is more popular than dual stat food... By your logic, v16 gear needs to be even better cos v14 mats cost *** tons more than v16 mats.... Clearly that isnt the case.....

Also, still waiting for you to tell me why food is OP. Or are you going to ignore that question for like the 4th time....

There is not a "tiny wee bit of difference" - it's literally multiple times the cost. It's often hundreds of percent different. What world do you live in? From you equating to "hardly ever" to 1 out of 4...here's some free advice: never go to Vegas.

Again your missing the point... Which @holosoul pointed out nicely. Legendary food is much more popular than tri-stat drinks... While dual stat and tri-stat food is always popular.... So berez juice is hardly ever used...... Again, you make no convincing arguments yet keep spewing insults at people..... Btw, id be careful about naming people in your posts under a negative light regardless of how you feel about the situation. Normally results in a forum ban... That's my advice to you lol. As for vegas, ive been there quite a few times and I do enjoy the place.

Actually, you're the one that started with the insults, "lol". While ineffective, trying countering someone's post with "your QQ..." is still noticeably childish.

Vangy · June 2016

tnanever wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

tnanever wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

The tiny wee bit of difference could be to a MULTITUDE of reasons. One being dual stat drinks could possibly be more popular than tri stat drinks while tri stat food is more popular than dual stat food... By your logic, v16 gear needs to be even better cos v14 mats cost *** tons more than v16 mats.... Clearly that isnt the case.....

Also, still waiting for you to tell me why food is OP. Or are you going to ignore that question for like the 4th time....

There is not a "tiny wee bit of difference" - it's literally multiple times the cost. It's often hundreds of percent different. What world do you live in? From you equating to "hardly ever" to 1 out of 4...here's some free advice: never go to Vegas.

Again your missing the point... Which @holosoul pointed out nicely. Legendary food is much more popular than tri-stat drinks... While dual stat and tri-stat food is always popular.... So berez juice is hardly ever used...... Again, you make no convincing arguments yet keep spewing insults at people..... Btw, id be careful about naming people in your posts under a negative light regardless of how you feel about the situation. Normally results in a forum ban... That's my advice to you lol. As for vegas, ive been there quite a few times and I do enjoy the place.

Actually, you're the one that started with the insults, "lol". While ineffective, trying countering someone's post with "your QQ..." is still noticeably childish.

....

tnanever wrote: »

holosoul wrote: »

@tnanever maybe because frost miriam is the material used to make tri stat food, but perfect roe is used to make legendary drink. there is no legendary stat food
thus the most dear commodities have the highest value
because anyone considering a tri drink can have a quad drink instead for minimal sacrifice and great gain
so where does that leave the value of bervez juice?

I think you would only have a case if, out of the total amount of food/drink consumed in the game, most of what was consumed are of those specific foods/drinks that you mentioned.

Given that:

1) I always see juice sold much cheaper than frost mirriam at guild traders, including guild traders at low level areas, and
2) We have a significant leveling population.

It seems safe to assume that most of the food/drink being consumed by the playerbase isn't what you specified in your post.

If this isnt the most far fetched theory based QQ, I dont know what is.....

Low level dual stat drinks are very popular cos people use these to speed up grinding. Not tri stat drinks... Dual stat and tri stat food is also popular for tanks and low level pledges..... Again... You are missing out tons of factors and making sweeping statements..... And in no way did I insult you. I said you were talking baseless nonsense.... In no way did I claim you are stupid... Just to be clear.. You still haven't told me why food is OP... I think ive asked this like 7 times now.....

Decoupling max stat from damage is a whole different monster in itself. Might be possible with implementation of soft caps and maybe in 10 years time at ZOS pace of bug fixing..... This is where I wait for someone out there to come and maybe provide more insight on why drinks need to be buffed and how food is OP. Cos clearly you are not capable of doing so. Let's give it a day or 2 and we will see.

tnanever · June 2016

Vangy wrote: »

...
[vangy's spam redacted]

Low level dual stat drinks are very popular cos people use these to speed up grinding. Not tri stat drinks... Dual stat and tri stat food is also popular for tanks and low level pledges..... Again... You are missing out tons of factors and making sweeping statements..... And in no way did I insult you. I said you were talking baseless nonsense.... In no way did I claim you are stupid... Just to be clear.. You still haven't told me why food is OP... I think ive asked this like 7 times now.....
...
[vangy's spam redacted]

Why do you keep spamming your inane question when the original post addresses it clearly? No - don't ask it an 8th time. Use your brain instead.

I never called food "OP". This whole thread was about bringing drinks up to the general usefulness of food. Again you're playing make-believe in your posts. You make things up in your head and pretend someone else said them. That's sad. Do something better with your time than trolling the forums, ok?

leepalmer95 · June 2016

Can we just close this thread, a pointless thread about a pointless topic with 0 facts backing it and without any proof.

People find a way to complain about everything i guess.

Vangy · June 2016

tnanever wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

...
[vangy's spam redacted]

Low level dual stat drinks are very popular cos people use these to speed up grinding. Not tri stat drinks... Dual stat and tri stat food is also popular for tanks and low level pledges..... Again... You are missing out tons of factors and making sweeping statements..... And in no way did I insult you. I said you were talking baseless nonsense.... In no way did I claim you are stupid... Just to be clear.. You still haven't told me why food is OP... I think ive asked this like 7 times now.....
...
[vangy's spam redacted]

Why do you keep spamming your inane question when the original post addresses it clearly? No - don't ask it an 8th time. Use your brain instead.

I never called food "OP". This whole thread was about bringing drinks up to the general usefulness of food. Again you're playing make-believe in your posts. You make things up in your head and pretend someone else said them. That's sad. Do something better with your time than trolling the forums, ok?

Refer to:

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Can we just close this thread, a pointless thread about a pointless topic with 0 facts backing it and without any proof.

People find a way to complain about everything i guess.

Cant put it more brutally honest and to the point than this.

Mush55 · June 2016

I'll chime in, I dont pvp and depending on what the healer as got equipped skill wise (eg, ele drain, orbs or none) will determain on whether i use max magic /health food or health/ magic regen drink .

Either way my dps dosn't suffer so in my experience they are both of value with neither being op or more useful than the other

STEVIL · June 2016

Fwiw

I hardly ever use purple food or drink.
Have three maxed provisioners doing writa daily.
Just looked in craftbag.
Had more than double the juice that i have frost. Hundreds of each.

So if my unused supply is representative of supply that could explain part of the price dif betweem food (smaller supply) and drink (larger supply)

It could be one of many factors affecting price.

ZOS_DaryaK · June 2016

We've removed a couple of posts that were not contributing to this conversation.

leepalmer95 · June 2016

I found my post to be completely relevant, it was a precognition of this thread.

Basically going to get closed and ignored and OP literally refuses to listen to others posts and believe his own point without any facts or evidence to support it.

If your going to delete any post just delete the OP.

susmitds · June 2016

tnanever wrote: »

I'm simply stating an observation - one that nobody can disagree with (including you).

This is where your post lost any significance it held.

There is no observation that is absolute. And yours is certainly not.

Most of PvE run the Orsinium stuff, which are basically a combination of food and drink.

tnanever · June 2016

susmitds wrote: »

tnanever wrote: »

I'm simply stating an observation - one that nobody can disagree with (including you).

This is where your post lost any significance it held.

There is no observation that is absolute. And yours is certainly not.

Most of PvE run the Orsinium stuff, which are basically a combination of food and drink.

You're 100% wrong - that actually supports my point. Suppose you're correct that most use Orsinium food for PvE - it goes along with one of my suggestions to simply allow players to user both food and drink, instead of leaving vast swaths of high level recipes unused.

There is simply too much content and possible combinations for provisioning to be limited to a very small handful of recipes. The game would be objectively improved with more effective player choices.

Acsvf · June 2016

tnanever wrote: »

1) I always see juice sold much cheaper than frost mirriam at guild traders, including guild traders at low level areas,

That only serves to prove that purple drink is used less than purple food- which makes sense, as health regeneration isn't exactly the most powerful stat in the game.

tnanever · June 2016

Acsvf wrote: »

tnanever wrote: »

1) I always see juice sold much cheaper than frost mirriam at guild traders, including guild traders at low level areas,

That only serves to prove that purple drink is used less than purple food- which makes sense, as health regeneration isn't exactly the most powerful stat in the game.

Right...that was my point.

Skitttles · June 2016

Drink weak? Wtf.... 500 regen to mag/stam BEFORE multipliers? Yea......

tnanever · June 2016

Skitttles wrote: »

Drink weak? Wtf.... 500 regen to mag/stam BEFORE multipliers? Yea......

Drinks don't get multipliers as far as I've heard.

Skitttles · June 2016

tnanever wrote: »

Skitttles wrote: »

Drink weak? Wtf.... 500 regen to mag/stam BEFORE multipliers? Yea......

Drinks don't get multipliers as far as I've heard.

I'm think they do. Because when I use a drink my regen doesn't increase by what the drink does. It's about 150-200 more regen then it should be. I'll have to look again later and double check that though.

susmitds · June 2016

tnanever wrote: »

Skitttles wrote: »

Drink weak? Wtf.... 500 regen to mag/stam BEFORE multipliers? Yea......

Drinks don't get multipliers as far as I've heard.

They DO get multiplIers like all other stat increases.

Vangy · June 2016

Skitttles wrote: »

Drink weak? Wtf.... 500 regen to mag/stam BEFORE multipliers? Yea......

Yup, my stam NB runs with well over 3.5k regen thanks to drinks lol.

tnanever · June 2016

susmitds wrote: »

tnanever wrote: »

Skitttles wrote: »

Drink weak? Wtf.... 500 regen to mag/stam BEFORE multipliers? Yea......

Drinks don't get multipliers as far as I've heard.

They DO get multiplIers like all other stat increases.

Well then I stand corrected for that fact.

Dredlord · June 2016

Vangy wrote: »

holosoul wrote: »

@tnanever as magicka builds we like having additional max stam/max health, and while having stam regen instead of max stam might work for many builds it probably won't if it's the difference between 2 dodges/break frees and 1 in a burst window

thus you'll see a lot of magicka players running tri food in pvp, and stam players running drinks or legendary food
you'll note the price of perfect roe is quite high, despite that you can farm 5 of them in an hour easily; but you say no one cares about regen food hmmm? I guess everyone is only using perfect roe on xp pots? xp pots are popular, to be sure; yet what do you think the most ideal pvp food is for a stamina build? Oh! a tri drink that also gives you 4k health, hmmm...

there is a balance and there are choices that are more or less suitable to a specific situation and build which vary even depending on the circumstance. it doesn't have to be equal or balanced because all of the options are available to everyone, and instead we have dynamic and situational choice

Thank the high heavens. Finally a voice of reason. Im done trying to explain to this OP why foods and drinks are balanced. Take over please.

No please, no one else take over, OP is clearly NOT a learner. He doesnt have the capacity to get it, let alone answer a simple question posed to him in this thread.