What's the best way for Stam NB to self heal?

visionality · June 2016

You might also consider the heals via mark target and it's morphs, especially for PvE and in vet dungeons. Mark a minor add, and you get a huge heal when it dies. It's an easy way to stay at constant high health when soloing Craglorn dungeons.

TheUrbanWizard · June 2016

@visionality yep I use reapers mark and find it quite effective, but I find I have to keep an eye on the mark. Its pretty useless against a dungeon boss after the mobs have gone tho.

TheUrbanWizard · June 2016

I'm glad people mentioned the orz recipe quest cos I got the recipes and consumed them without looking what they do (as I do with all unknown recipes lol!)

My provisioning is on the up so they should be useful especially after relying on crusty bread and kwama quiche for so long haha, cheers guys

SirAndy · June 2016

holosoul wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

TheUrbanWizard wrote: »

How do other stam nbs cope??

Resto staff on the back bar ...

this is very bad advice for a stamina character
rally/vigor will heal more per second and use stamina, and also allow you to use a viable off weapon ...

I've made it work ...

Ep1kMalware · June 2016

Schemering wrote: »

in pve you should be able to trust the healer, that way you wont have to lower dps for any actions by yourself that restore your health.

For trial yeah, but dungeons are too easy to need heals.To make healers work npcs need to put stronger dots on players. Else Injust vigor in my rotation and I'm immune from dying.

Snape2255 · June 2016

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

I use a stam templar, I open with a binding javalin, vigor, poison injection, light attack, nova, caltrops, light attack, arrow barrage, crit rush, then jabs. I can do all this before you get back up.

I would be very interested to see that, care to record it?

To be honest with you, with the resource management and awareness of any decently competent player they will get up within the time it takes you to land that, roll dodge away and heal up. I'm talking about gap closing, CC'ing and dishing out enough damage to rip through 2/3rds of a player's health in 1.5 seconds.

Even assuming you were fast at animation cancelling and bar swapping (which you would need to be), and each skill took you 0.5 seconds to cast, you'd be looking at a 6-8 second rotation there. You would only land that on some poor sod who has wasted all his stamina. Or an NPC. Also considering that your javelin hits low, your light attacks also will, your poison injection only does decent damage when they're below 30% health, your arrow barrage and caltrops are DoTs, and you close with crit rush and jabs. Let's see:

Javelin: 3k
Poison Injection: 2k
Light Attack: 2k
Nova: 4k (the DoT is what makes this hit hard, if you're running solo you cannot synergise)
Caltrops: 400
Light attack: 2k
Arrow Barrage: 600
Crit Rush (let's assume you're at maximum distance): 6k
Jabs (let's assume ALL attacks hit and you're fully buffed up): 8k

You've just hit 28,000 over roughly 8-10 seconds (you cannot animation cancel Jabs, the channel is 1.5-2 seconds in itself). Your biggest two hits (Crit Rush and Jabs) came after the 5 second marker. CC lasts for 6 seconds. That gives a player (assuming they were buffed with Rally, or had Healing Ward available) 2-4 seconds to hit a single button, which would then negating your initial damage and therefore making your overall damage (after they've healed/shielded) roughly 16,000. Now assuming you're fighting a player with average health (21k), they have 5k health left to get rid of and are now ready to heal.

Now let's take a Stamina NB as an example (we'll run S&B since that's what I'm used to). Fully buffed.

Invasion: 4k
Medium Attack: 4.5k
Surprise Attack: 6.5k
Bash: 3.5k*
Incapacitating Strike: 9k
Killer's Blade: 12k

*Up until this point it has only taken 1.5-2 seconds due to the animation cancelling.

These are all on the same bar which requires no weapon swap. The Incapacitating Strike adds an extra second on and if you block the Killer's Blade it takes about 0.5 seconds to cast. The 12k is based on damage once the enemy is below 20% health. These are average hits, hence not the "highest clocked" that I've seen, per se.

This accumulates to 39.5k damage in 3.5-4 seconds (assuming the cancelling was executed perfectly).

Now this damage is against a Light Armour user without damage shields applied. For Medium Armour I'd say drop about 5k damage on top (34.5k overall) and for Heavy let's reduce that even further to about 28k.

Now let's take into consideration the user is using Dual-Wield. This increases the damage output, however you lose the Bash. Add 1-1.5k damage onto the gap closer, replace Invasion with Ambush which empowers the medium attack adding an extra 1k on top, 2k onto the ultimate and another 2k onto the executioner, then remove the 3.5k from Bash. This results in roughly 45k damage on that cycle to a Light Armour user. 7k Damage difference. More damage, less mitigation however.

You'll see that the damage is still high enough on S&B to overkill an enemy in one cycle if executed correctly.

These figures aren't imaginary, FYI. This is my own personal damage output and I know others who have even higher damage output than me, I just personally run my Stam NB with higher sustain (hence my 2.8k Stam Recovery).

I repeat that I've tried EVERY SINGLE weapon combination for Stam chars. I fully well know the differences in each, and it's a personal preference to run S&B.

The reason I've replied with this is because you've endeavoured to try and dissuade the OP from considering a set-up I suggested, without actually having tried it. I suggested it because it works, simple as that. I've never tried to force anyone onto it, and I've never tried to tell the OP they're absolutely in the wrong for not doing it. In FACT I have stated that it is not as viable for PVE and suggested other setups for that, merely promoting the setup for PVP. Because it works. I do not appreciate you trying to undermine my build and my suggestions. I replied to this thread to try and help, instead of appreciating my advice and giving some actual, constructive criticism, you have proceeded to undermine it and insinuated that the OP and others pay no heed to my advice.

I've not actually stated anything incorrect, in fact every piece of advice I have given has been to further help influence choices. I've also provided alternatives each time if they don't want to run my suggestions. Next time provide constructive criticism and expand on other's points instead of trying to belittle them and announce that they're wrong.

And OP I am sorry for hijacking your thread like this, I just find self-righteous individuals like this difficult to tolerate. I appreciate that they have tried to offer advice, but insisting that someone else is entirely wrong for the setup they choose is horrendous.

Hopefully this can shed some light on how it's actually viable and works well. But like I said, it's more of a PVP setup rather than PVE.

TheUrbanWizard · June 2016

@Snape2255 not a problem mate I appreciate any advice however it comes, and yours is good for pve and when I plunge into pvp.

Disagreements are healthy imho on these forums and give people like me, who haven't tried many different builds, options to consider.

Gargath · June 2016

TheUrbanWizard wrote: »

As the question says. I'm having trouble shooting up my health when I really need to, and rely on dropped health potions way too much, which often isn't enough. PvE mainly, Vet dungeons especially.
Please no answers of kill before killed, L2P etc 'cos that's what I'm doing.
How do other stam nbs cope??

With my stam NB with a bow I use these healing:
1. Assassin's Blade morphed into Killer's Blade
2. Mark Target with either morph
3. Scatter Shot morphed into Draining Shot from Bow Skills - marvelous healing skill, afaik can be used against many targets and healing applies for all of them separately (at least it was before patch).

The key is to use them in proper way

. I don't have Vigor yet (don't like pvp), so these suffice

.
And I have resto Staff on back bar, but usually don't need it with the above.

Ep1kMalware · June 2016

Gargath wrote: »

TheUrbanWizard wrote: »

As the question says. I'm having trouble shooting up my health when I really need to, and rely on dropped health potions way too much, which often isn't enough. PvE mainly, Vet dungeons especially.
Please no answers of kill before killed, L2P etc 'cos that's what I'm doing.
How do other stam nbs cope??

With my stam NB with a bow I use these healing:
1. Assassin's Blade morphed into Killer's Blade
2. Mark Target with either morph
3. Scatter Shot morphed into Draining Shot from Bow Skills - marvelous healing skill, afaik can be used against many targets and healing applies for all of them separately (at least it was before patch).

The key is to use them in proper way . I don't have Vigor yet (don't like pvp), so these suffice .
And I have resto Staff on back bar, but usually don't need it with the above.

your estimates are way off, you can use r3 to swap bars, light atks can be fired off with skills, and tou can even cast while critrushing. Also you're lowballing damage way too much, lemme gice you my tooltips outside combat (do no wp dmg glyph bonus).

non crit values for 2h/bow
arrow barrage: 1504
poison injection: 5565 initial, 12345(srsly) over 10 sec.
jabs:1549
nova: 4124/sec
2572 for caltrops initial, 1254/sec
critrush: 7048
jav 6698
burning light: 5441
light attack: 5997

2h/dw

caltrops 815 init, 1371 dot.
javs 7237
burning light 5843
nova 4510 dot
jabs 1584
light attack 7327

those are without gear procs noncritical hits, I'm not gunna hit lower than that (figuring battle spirit reduces dmg 50% ofc). You forget burnig light, if procced/critted might as well be a wreckingblow jab, you forget poison injection might hit for another 11k if tou're at execute, or jabs doing an additional potential 12k burning light d,gn(noncrit).

Even if you do break free, if you don't get out of aoes very very quickly you're giving me some ap.

Ep1kMalware · June 2016

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

TheUrbanWizard wrote: »

As the question says. I'm having trouble shooting up my health when I really need to, and rely on dropped health potions way too much, which often isn't enough. PvE mainly, Vet dungeons especially.
Please no answers of kill before killed, L2P etc 'cos that's what I'm doing.
How do other stam nbs cope??

With my stam NB with a bow I use these healing:
1. Assassin's Blade morphed into Killer's Blade
2. Mark Target with either morph
3. Scatter Shot morphed into Draining Shot from Bow Skills - marvelous healing skill, afaik can be used against many targets and healing applies for all of them separately (at least it was before patch).

The key is to use them in proper way . I don't have Vigor yet (don't like pvp), so these suffice .
And I have resto Staff on back bar, but usually don't need it with the above.

your estimates are way off, you can use r3 to swap bars, light atks can be fired off with skills, and tou can even cast while critrushing. Also you're lowballing damage way too much, lemme gice you my tooltips outside combat (do no wp dmg glyph bonus).

non crit values for 2h/bow
arrow barrage: 1504
poison injection: 5565 initial, 12345(srsly) over 10 sec.
jabs:1549
nova: 4124/sec
2572 for caltrops initial, 1254/sec
critrush: 7048
jav 6698
burning light: 5441
light attack: 5997

2h/dw

caltrops 2815 init, 1371 dot.
javs 7237
burning light 5843
nova 4510 dot
jabs 1584
light attack 7327

those are without gear procs noncritical hits, I'm not gunna hit lower than that (figuring battle spirit reduces dmg 50% ofc). You forget burnig light, if procced/critted might as well be a wreckingblow jab, you forget poison injection might hit for another 11k if tou're at execute, or jabs doing an additional potential 12k burning light d,gn(noncrit).

Even if you do break free, if you don't get out of aoes very very quickly you're giving me some ap. Also your understanding of animation cancelling seems flawed, you can cancel some animations much faster just hecause of the skill you used before hand. For example you can jav/block/caltrops faster than you can throw caltrops than just block cancelling caltrops.

EgoRush · June 2016

hamgatan wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

In general, for PvE dungeons and trials, your healer should be keeping you alive. Sounds like your healer has issues.

... why are people always blaming the heals?

its got nothing to do with that. every competent player should have at least ONE self heal. its not an argument. you cannot solely put it on your healer to keep you up 100% of the time. whatever role you play. its called character balance.

the only exception to that rule are elite trial guilds like Hodor who have 3-4 healers in their Raid anyway and thats 0.01% of the player population where their DPS's need all 5 slots to punch leaderboard topping numbers. Those builds are set up for specific rotations and having heals slotted = less deeps

when i'm on my argonian healer you know which players always drop first? stamblades. and thats because 90% of them are glass cannon 'oh but Deltia said so' burst builds that die after one hit. blaming the healer is a pointless argument for poor players who have no experience outside their class and don't understand the mechanics from each classes perspective.

i tank 80% of the time in dungeons. i never rely on the healer. I keep one self heal active and mitigate damage in other ways. When i switch to DPS i still keep GDB/Vigor up regardless.

Definitely agree that with PUG groups and where heals may be an issue that players should consider a self heal. However, just want to mention that guilds like Hodor typically run with 1 healer for trials such as AA/HRC and previously Sanctum before Veteran Mode was added. For vMOL you can manage with 1 healer plus 1 off-healer. The new vSO I think all boss encounters can still be solo healed (I say this with certainty for boss 1, 2 and 4), but the trash it is problematic with 1 healer I guess.

My point is that people should adapt to the group they are in. If I'm doing a PUG dungeon and keep dying as a DD, then I'll play more defensively to adapt to the team. If I'm doing a raid with Hodor then I will trust in my healer to keep me going or help them improve to ensure we remain competitive.

Snape2255 · June 2016

@TheUrbanWizard Thanks for understanding. I enjoy seeing other's opinions and builds and I always welcome constructive criticism on my own etc., it just irritates me to see someone completely and stubbornly undermine my own build without even having a clue how to run it and its potential.

@Ep1kMalware *Sigh*. This was taking into consideration that you already had R3 as your bar swap. In fact I was under the impression you were a PC user which would have made it even simpler. You can animation cancel with light attack, yes, and that was taken under consideration too hence every animation initially estimated at 0.5 seconds.

I'm not sure if you understand how a second works pal, but if you count "1 Thousand" out loud, you have it. That's damn quick. I'm considering ALL of your skills to take half of that. My estimations are based on that, except your bar swap at the end and positioning of your new skills plus Jab's animation (which, to this date, is unable to be cancelled....correct me if I'm wrong). Burning Light was also not factored in due to it being a percentage based chance to actually provide the damage bonus. Poison Injection does such damage on executioner health range yes, but it is also a DoT; it ticks damage. A well timed Rally can out-heal it and push you back above executioner range, and so can a Healing Ward.

You've also made a serious error in judgement if you go by Tooltip damage, since this is in no way a visual representation of your actual output. Your actual damage once all factors have been taken into consideration can be drastically different from tooltip damage. I am basing my figures on a decent damage build running the same skills you are and the ACTUAL hits against players. There is no flaw in my figures, they are actually more accurate than your tooltips. You have more weapon damage? Hell, attaboy! You add on a few thousand! You think for a second they'll be sitting inside your AoE radius of 8 metres that takes literally 1 dodge roll to escape? Heck! You add on another couple thousand! We're still up to 33,000 damage over the course of 8-10 seconds. In FACT it's now going to increase in time due to the insinuation that you're getting all that DoT damage added up. Let's even add a few more ticks on shall we? 35,000 DAMAGE! WOW! IN 12 SECONDS! Legit bro.

I have played a Stam Templar. I played it for quite some time. They're a fantastic class with awesome ability in PVP, but their burst is no where near the scale of a Stam NBs. I have run it with 2H as my main DPS bar, you're actually only receiving about 200-300 Weapon Damage more than S&B.

You want to run DW? Fantastic for you, that's fine buddy! But you've just lost out on about 2-3k resistances, fantastic block cost reduction, you've lost out on +100% damage onto your Bash and reduced cost of it to ease through animation cancelling. You've just lost out on of the best gap closers around that scales the stun with distance travelled and actually hits quite decently. You're now stuck with either a gap closer that doesn't CC AT ALL, which makes it easy to avoid, or a gap closer that Snares (which can be cleansed). You've also lost out on a healing debuff. A strong healing debuff. You've also just lost out on the potential to reflect skills if you so desire. You've ALSO just lost out on the ability to debuff their physical res, in case you wanted to, since you're not a Stam NB and you're not running Surprise Attack - which maximises your damage output even further.

Your abilities hit more, yes, that's great. However you're stuck with CCs that do NOT ensure that you can at least land the first few hits (as a stun CC allows), unless you want to use your Magicka....of which you lack. You're also losing damage out during the animation cancel phase itself due to the loss of your Bash damage. You're also STILL restricted to the channel time restriction of your main DPS skill (Jabs) therefore you're not actually DPSing any faster, you're doing more damage sure but you're not doing it any "faster". You're gaining let's say, +600-700 weapon damage? You're losing out on a shed load of mitigation and some of the best, most useful PVP skills around. Just for that extra damage.

I'm not being funny pal, but if someone can dish out a bit less damage than you in the same space of time, whilst mitigating a lot of your damage onto them, and probably having better resource management. I'll put my money on the other guy.

I'm not sure how often you PVP. I do it daily, whenever I'm on. It's rare that I don't. I am NOT a PVE player. Sure I do pledges and the occasional trial but that's not my forté, and I don't claim to know how to PVE better than you or anyone else. I've given advice based on PVP, since PVP is my forté. I know how this crap works man, I run PVP all the damn time, I know how these skills change the course of a battle, and I know the benefits of each weapon based on that. I'm not joking bud but DW users don't really pose much threat to me unless they gank me. For simple reasons really:

My gap closer actually provides a scaled stun. This ENSURES I can get at least a medium attack animation cancel cycle in before you can react. This is NOT provided to such an extent with Stampede and EVEN LESS chance with Critical Rush.
If I see you charging up a hard hit I can block. My block is cheap. My block mitigates your damage by like what...80%? You do that.
If you're up close I have yet another stun to knock you out of your rhythm again.
You're running DW? You have higher heals due to your higher weapon damage etc.? Fantastic! I've just mitigated that by 1/3rd. Your heals are now actually coming off as less than mine. This is a 10 second debuff, I'll be weaving in this debuff every 5-8 seconds. Nice one pal.
You're going at it from range? Sure your Snipe/Poison Injection will bust through but that's about it. I can block that and Invasion in, which stuns you, which lets me smack you hard again. You wanna use other skills? I hope you enjoy them coming back at your face.
You wanna use Rally to heal? Awesome! Me too.
You wanna use Vigour to heal? Let me join you!
You wanna get your resources back? Sweet, I guarantee I can do that better.
You wanna block to mitigate my damage? You carry on pal, your stamina is gonna drain a hell of a lot faster than mine is.
You wanna animation cancel? Not only can I probably pull it off faster but my Bash adds on an extra 3.5-4.5k damage per cycle anyway. I can land a medium attack, surprise attack AND a bash all in the time it takes for the animation of Bash to go off. That's a bloody short animation.

I'm well aware of the flaws in my setup (primary flaw being less burst damage). However you seem unaware of the flaws in yours. You've tried to undermine S&B the entire time and dissuade the OP and others from using it, but your knowledge of its positives and negatives makes your argument against it redundant. My build, upon finishing and fully upgrading gear and obtaining all passives is the following:

21k Max Health (Average)
31k Max Stamina (Decent considering I don't run max stat food)
3.4k Weapon Damage (This is not to be snubbed it, it actually dishes out good DPS potential)
2.9k Stamina Recovery (Makes resource management a breeze)

I also don't run max stat or weapon damage mundus stone, otherwise I could push them even higher. These are completely fine stats for PVP if you know how to play competently.

I've stated that this isn't as effective in PVE, but I can still run pledges etc. with it and still dish out fantastic DPS with it.

It's a shame that you haven't endeavoured to understand the setup before completely trying to par it off. It's disappointing, really.

Ep1kMalware · June 2016

yes, we all know you're the all knowing ,master of elderscrolls pvp warfare. Problem with your flawgic is: It works. If you think you can ,agically break free of the stun, sit in the damage area and heal hop on a ps4 and show me, because I gank small groups like this all the time, and unless I fumble ky fingers I usually do exactly what I set out to do. I 'd really like to know what kind of mental gymnastics you do to think you're going to adtually sit there and survive all that. Unless you're quick you won't even survive the critrush. You would HAVE to do some sort of heals in order to last that long. Oh well, guess everyone's a super hero with spiderman-esque teflexes these days >_>

Sure, I loose fights too, some people are alot quicker than I am and can hit fairly hard in return. You don't actually think I'm going to stop what I'm doing and be like "You sir! I challenge you to an honorable duel!". No, you're going to fly across the screen and it's going to be a complete suprise. You're going to walk through a door and step on a rearming trap, you're going to be walking down an alley in temple district with your mates into a preplanned bottleneck, and unless you have streak (the f*king bane of my existence), you'll be watching me from the floor.

also, your wd is where mine is without weapons, and your max stam is where mine is without food. so we'd probably be even if I ate a green health food statwise. You keep saying your dps is excellent statwise. You done a bloodspawn score with your build? 4-8k dps is not impressive, even in pvp all I have to do is hit lingering ritual and rally every now amd again and I can ignore you completely.

The only time I even notice scrubs like you exist is when I'm grindimg in the sewers and happen to noticd the AP pile in the corner of my screen.

Aeaeren · June 2016

TheUrbanWizard wrote: »

Ah Vigor..but I hardly PvP. I'll give Rally a go as I use a 2h.

For me Killer's Blade was never quite enough, and @Whatzituyah I prefer Siphoning but thanks.

Vigor is worth spending some time in PvP to get.

Snape2255 · June 2016

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

yes, we all know you're the all knowing ,master of elderscrolls pvp warfare. Problem with your flawgic is: It works. If you think you can ,agically break free of the stun, sit in the damage area and heal hop on a ps4 and show me, because I gank small groups like this all the time, and unless I fumble ky fingers I usually do exactly what I set out to do. I 'd really like to know what kind of k=mental gymnastics you do to think you're going to adtually sit there and survive all that. Oh well, guess everyone's a super hero with spiderman-esque teflexes these days >_>

also, your wd is where mine is without weapons, and your max stam is where mine is without food. so we'd probably be even if I ate a green food statwise.

Constructive reply, I'm impressed.

I'm sure you're running with points into Tumbling? The second you notice you're stunned you can break free and dodge roll away (whoever mentioned sitting inside the DoT area? It's 8 bloody metres, doesn't take much to roll out of it

). I'm actually on the PS4 pal

What server you playing on?

My "mental gymnastics" as you so eloquently put it, actually laid out your damage output provided I DID allow you to keep me stunned for the entire 6 seconds AND then sat in your DoTs for the proceeding 6 seconds. Quite frankly if you opened with Javelin anyway, which is a VERY VISIBLE stun to boot, it'd have been broken free and your AoE's avoided within 2 seconds, let alone 12. You would then proceed to try to land your dots for the next 12 seconds I presume since this is your cycle?

No, don't be daft. What would happen is I would break free, your AoEs would be made redundant (bar Caltrops...which costs a LOT of stamina to cast may I add), you'd then charge into me with Crit Rush (which wouldn't CC me any further) and start trying to land Jabs over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. This can be busted via CC'ing you back which would require you to lose your rhythm and have to re-initiate your cycle. During this Rally and Vigour would be ticking.

The other thing you would do is sit at range and try spamming light attack + poison injection (or maybe you're going to do heavy attack?) Heavy Attack takes about 2.5 seconds to charge fully and it hits hard, yes. But invasion takes an instant to cast and will stun you for about 4 odd seconds. You'd then waste stamina to break free which means you've just lost another ability out of your rotation. I hope you regularly weave in heavy attacks with your DW in order to maintain your stamina. I also hope you're not spamming dodge roll all the time to avoid my hits because this will rinse through even further.

I'm assuming you're running The Warrior mundus and you're running max stat food? Which would place your recovery at about 1.5k? Maybe lower? I'd also assume that you're not running as a Vampire because you are a PVE player and you don't want the Fire damage debuff?

I also assume that you have about 35k stamina? Or wait, 40k by the sounds of it? Dodge roll costs more each time, and to fully utilise it and mitigate my burst you'd have to use it regularly. This will push your stamina lower and lower all whilst you're spamming your AoEs etc? Plus Caltrops costs what...like 6k Stamina or something stupid? You'll be using this regularly. Your recovery won't be able to keep up and you'll eventually not be able to break free. I assume you're running stamina pots? And even assuming you have 50 in Alchemist your cooldown on this is say...30 seconds??? You then have a space of about 15 seconds where you'd have to attempt to kite me to recharge stamina. During this time I can either heal or I can continue attacking. Huge stam recovery and a decent-sized pool comes in handy you know pal.

Even if you were running Repentance, you'd have to kill something first to be able to get some stamina back. Each time you heal is another ability cost that costs more than your recovery can handle.

Keep in mind I am using skills that boost my recovery and give me stamina back on every hit too. You could make it a range fight but let's say we encountered each other in an open field with minimal cover? How would you go about avoiding my LoS for my gap closer? Also keep in mind that through the entirety of you spamming your heals to mitigate my damage, you're draining your stamina AND you're only getting 2/3rds of the actual heal.

PVP is not about burst damage. PVP is about sustain. PVE is about burst damage for DPS. If you cannot sustain past the 10-15 second mark in a fight in PVP, you're a goner. You'll get steamrolled. You have the option to either burst down your opponent in a very short time (even assuming you can do this, they'd have to be incompetent or caught by surprise to allow you to), or sacrifice damage in order to have more sustain.

The lowest recovery I run on a character is that of my Magicka Sorc's and that is 1.7k, but he has 46k Max Magicka to boot and regularly weaves in heavy attacks. Sustain is everything in PVP. You can burst for days but if they avoid the burst and wait for you to run low on resources then you're a sitting duck

You could also try against my Magicka NB build if you'd like. That one has 1.7k recovery, 25.5k max health, 46.7k max magicka and 2.9k spell damage. It also has a method of permanently rooting you and can stay out of range of your jabs. Builds with lower sustain don't stand much of chance against a perma-root enemy (which makes Magicka DKs so powerful too).

I run 3 Infused, 2 Divines, 2 Impen and 1 Well-Fitted on my Stamina NB to mitigate some dodge roll cost even further than my Tumbling pushes it. Even WITH my sustain, I struggle against perma-root classes, but at least I have a decent chance.

Out of curiosity, what is your max stamina and your recovery? Plus what is your weapon damage and max health? I am intrigued to be honest. You seem to assume that you have a huge damage and resource pool that can mitigate the need for sustain, it's sparked my curiosity.

P.S.: If you drop your weapons you actually have <500 Weapon Damage. Well played mate.

Clerics1985 · June 2016

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

yes, we all know you're the all knowing ,master of elderscrolls pvp warfare. Problem with your flawgic is: It works. If you think you can ,agically break free of the stun, sit in the damage area and heal hop on a ps4 and show me, because I gank small groups like this all the time, and unless I fumble ky fingers I usually do exactly what I set out to do. I 'd really like to know what kind of mental gymnastics you do to think you're going to adtually sit there and survive all that. Unless you're quick you won't even survive the critrush. You would HAVE to do some sort of heals in order to last that long. Oh well, guess everyone's a super hero with spiderman-esque teflexes these days >_>

Sure, I loose fights too, some people are alot quicker than I am and can hit fairly hard in return. You don't actually think I'm going to stop what I'm doing and be like "You sir! I challenge you to an honorable duel!". No, you're going to fly across the screen and it's going to be a complete suprise. You're going to walk through a door and step on a rearming trap, you're going to be walking down an alley in temple district with your mates into a preplanned bottleneck, and unless you have streak (the f*king bane of my existence), you'll be watching me from the floor.

also, your wd is where mine is without weapons, and your max stam is where mine is without food. so we'd probably be even if I ate a green health food statwise. You keep saying your dps is excellent statwise. You done a bloodspawn score with your build? 4-8k dps is not impressive, even in pvp all I have to do is hit lingering ritual and rally every now amd again and I can ignore you completely.

The only time I even notice scrubs like you exist is when I'm grindimg in the sewers and happen to noticd the AP pile in the corner of my screen.

Shots Fired! but I'm siding with S&B Mater Race

Ep1kMalware · June 2016

Snape2255 wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

yes, we all know you're the all knowing ,master of elderscrolls pvp warfare. Problem with your flawgic is: It works. If you think you can ,agically break free of the stun, sit in the damage area and heal hop on a ps4 and show me, because I gank small groups like this all the time, and unless I fumble ky fingers I usually do exactly what I set out to do. I 'd really like to know what kind of k=mental gymnastics you do to think you're going to adtually sit there and survive all that. Oh well, guess everyone's a super hero with spiderman-esque teflexes these days >_>

also, your wd is where mine is without weapons, and your max stam is where mine is without food. so we'd probably be even if I ate a green food statwise.

Constructive reply, I'm impressed. I'm sure you're running with points into Tumbling? The second you notice you're stunned you can break free and dodge roll away (whoever mentioned sitting inside the DoT area? It's 8 bloody metres, doesn't take much to roll out of it ). I'm actually on the PS4 pal What server you playing on?

My "mental gymnastics" as you so eloquently put it, actually laid out your damage output provided I DID allow you to keep me stunned for the entire 6 seconds AND then sat in your DoTs for the proceeding 6 seconds. Quite frankly if you opened with Javelin anyway, which is a VERY VISIBLE stun to boot, it'd have been broken free and your AoE's avoided within 2 seconds, let alone 12. You would then proceed to try to land your dots for the next 12 seconds I presume since this is your cycle?

No, don't be daft. What would happen is I would break free, your AoEs would be made redundant (bar Caltrops...which costs a LOT of stamina to cast may I add), you'd then charge into me with Crit Rush (which wouldn't CC me any further) and start trying to land Jabs over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. This can be busted via CC'ing you back which would require you to lose your rhythm and have to re-initiate your cycle. During this Rally and Vigour would be ticking.

The other thing you would do is sit at range and try spamming light attack + poison injection (or maybe you're going to do heavy attack?) Heavy Attack takes about 2.5 seconds to charge fully and it hits hard, yes. But invasion takes an instant to cast and will stun you for about 4 odd seconds. You'd then waste stamina to break free which means you've just lost another ability out of your rotation. I hope you regularly weave in heavy attacks with your DW in order to maintain your stamina. I also hope you're not spamming dodge roll all the time to avoid my hits because this will rinse through even further.

I'm assuming you're running The Warrior mundus and you're running max stat food? Which would place your recovery at about 1.5k? Maybe lower? I'd also assume that you're not running as a Vampire because you are a PVE player and you don't want the Fire damage debuff?

I also assume that you have about 35k stamina? Or wait, 40k by the sounds of it? Dodge roll costs more each time, and to fully utilise it and mitigate my burst you'd have to use it regularly. This will push your stamina lower and lower all whilst you're spamming your AoEs etc? Plus Caltrops costs what...like 6k Stamina or something stupid? You'll be using this regularly. Your recovery won't be able to keep up and you'll eventually not be able to break free. I assume you're running stamina pots? And even assuming you have 50 in Alchemist your cooldown on this is say...30 seconds??? You then have a space of about 15 seconds where you'd have to attempt to kite me to recharge stamina. During this time I can either heal or I can continue attacking. Huge stam recovery and a decent-sized pool comes in handy you know pal.

Even if you were running Repentance, you'd have to kill something first to be able to get some stamina back. Each time you heal is another ability cost that costs more than your recovery can handle.

Keep in mind I am using skills that boost my recovery and give me stamina back on every hit too. You could make it a range fight but let's say we encountered each other in an open field with minimal cover? How would you go about avoiding my LoS for my gap closer? Also keep in mind that through the entirety of you spamming your heals to mitigate my damage, you're draining your stamina AND you're only getting 2/3rds of the actual heal.

PVP is not about burst damage. PVP is about sustain. PVE is about burst damage for DPS. If you cannot sustain past the 10-15 second mark in a fight in PVP, you're a goner. You'll get steamrolled. You have the option to either burst down your opponent in a very short time (even assuming you can do this, they'd have to be incompetent or caught by surprise to allow you to), or sacrifice damage in order to have more sustain.

The lowest recovery I run on a character is that of my Magicka Sorc's and that is 1.7k, but he has 46k Max Magicka to boot and regularly weaves in heavy attacks. Sustain is everything in PVP. You can burst for days but if they avoid the burst and wait for you to run low on resources then you're a sitting duck

You could also try against my Magicka NB build if you'd like. That one has 1.7k recovery, 25.5k max health, 46.7k max magicka and 2.9k spell damage. It also has a method of permanently rooting you and can stay out of range of your jabs. Builds with lower sustain don't stand much of chance against a perma-root enemy (which makes Magicka DKs so powerful too).

I run 3 Infused, 2 Divines, 2 Impen and 1 Well-Fitted on my Stamina NB to mitigate some dodge roll cost even further than my Tumbling pushes it. Even WITH my sustain, I struggle against perma-root classes, but at least I have a decent chance.

Out of curiosity, what is your max stamina and your recovery? Plus what is your weapon damage and max health? I am intrigued to be honest. You seem to assume that you have a huge damage and resource pool that can mitigate the need for sustain, it's sparked my curiosity.

P.S.: If you drop your weapons you actually have <500 Weapon Damage. Well played mate.

so add my psn slicer_of_cats . We can 1v1 tomorrow and I'll upload a vid of you getting 1-2shot while rally spamming. Also, pve = burst damage? have you ever tried to burst anything down with <30,000,000 max hp? Or even 5,00,000. I can do bloodspawn in <60sec on stambuild, I don't have to *try* to hit hard.

^a bit dated (2mo?). thx to db I can easilly increase that to 3200-3300.

Snape2255 · June 2016

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

so add my psn slicer_of_cats . We can 1v1 tomorrow and I'll upload a vid of you getting 1-2shot while rally spamming. Also, pve = burst damage? have you ever tried to burst anything down with <30,000,000 max hp? Or even 5,00,000. I can do bloodspawn in <60sec on stambuild, I don't have to *try* to hit hard.

will update thread in 5 min with a lol@u pic

What server are you on? It would be redundant if you weren't on mine. Your timeframes are also all over the place. Firstly you state "tomorrow", then you say "in 5 minutes". You're also assuming you can 1-shot 21k Max Health through 15k resistances and Shuffle, we both know that even if you landed all 4 Biting Jabs hits (your strongest ability) you'd still be hitting roughly 7k on me max.

You are getting increasingly agitated as this debate goes on, this reflects negatively on your assumption that you're correct, FYI.

I also asked for your stats, but you're refusing to share them? Care to explain why?

Ep1kMalware · June 2016

Snape2255 wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

so add my psn slicer_of_cats . We can 1v1 tomorrow and I'll upload a vid of you getting 1-2shot while rally spamming. Also, pve = burst damage? have you ever tried to burst anything down with <30,000,000 max hp? Or even 5,00,000. I can do bloodspawn in <60sec on stambuild, I don't have to *try* to hit hard.

will update thread in 5 min with a lol@u pic

What server are you on? It would be redundant if you weren't on mine. Your timeframes are also all over the place. Firstly you state "tomorrow", then you say "in 5 minutes". You're also assuming you can 1-shot 21k Max Health through 15k resistances and Shuffle, we both know that even if you landed all 4 Biting Jabs hits (your strongest ability) you'd still be hitting roughly 7k on me max.

You are getting increasingly agitated as this debate goes on, this reflects negatively on your assumption that you're correct, FYI.

I also asked for your stats, but you're refusing to share them? Care to explain why?

Lolwut? mdw my jabs crit for 11.3k with burning light, trap beast. I could slot warhorn instead. factor burning light,which often procs on 2/4 jab hits. You get hit 4 times, remember? I said I was uploading a pic while ps4 updated, can't a man poop in peace?

if I'm running dw, I run 2 sharpened maces, yes, I REALLY do think I'll burn right through your 15k resist. Bloodspawn. clearly you havent done it yet.

ps4 N/A

Snape2255 · June 2016

11.3k Against a player seems doubtful if I'm honest. You're not factoring in crit resistance and you're also considering that burning light procs at a 50% rate. I'm sure you are well aware but it only procs 25% of the time, therefore it'd be 1/4 hits and it will only hit about 2-3k after factoring in other mitigation. You could slot Warhorn, yes, but you'd be losing out on another burst and/or mitigation ultimate.

I'm still unable to understand why you are avoiding my questions.

Edit: I've just seen your screenshot.

I see that you've only got 1k recovery, whilst maintaining only 35k stamina as a resource pool. Your resistances are low and you only have 21k max health (in fact lower).

Lovely.

P.S.: I can see that that is running Overload, and not weapon-less. I hope you are aware Overload still factors in your weapons when it calculates damage. Or whatever the Kena proc is called.

Ep1kMalware · June 2016

Snape2255 wrote: »

11.3k Against a player seems doubtful if I'm honest. You're not factoring in crit resistance and you're also considering that burning light procs at a 50% rate. I'm sure you are well aware but it only procs 25% of the time, therefore it'd be 1/4 hits and it will only hit about 2-3k after factoring in other mitigation. You could slot Warhorn, yes, but you'd be losing out on another burst and/or mitigation ultimate.

I'm still unable to understand why you are avoiding my questions.

Edit: I've just seen your screenshot.

I see that you've only got 1k recovery, whilst maintaining only 35k stamina as a resource pool. Your resistances are low and you only have 21k max health (in fact lower).

Lovely.

P.S.: I can see that that is running Overload, and not weapon-less. I hope you are aware Overload still factors in your weapons when it calculates damage.

god you must be so frackin dense are you? Wheres your build? look there? see where it says class = templar? Also, that pic was 2 months ago, char would have been 3 weeks old. atm it's my main. fwiw I use recovery food in pvp, b=now that undaunted is ranked up, I'd be at 32.6k max stam and 28k health with 1800 recovery fully geared in a nonbuff pvp server. *** off dude. Stop pkaying dumb and blind and agree to dual me already? You know you wrong already, stop being e,embarassed and let's show the forums how bad you s&b builds really are. Also, *** I can't believe I'm doing basic math for you. 11.4k is my average jab hit. burning light often procs on 2-4, sometimes 0, but usually 2/4, sometimes even all 4. Either way, you take the average (remember in 5th grade, how to do that?) 11.3x4=52kx.5=26k in cryodiil no buffserver.

Either let's put your 30 page novel about how good you are at pvp to the test, vs ,y build, or forever hold your peace and refrain from this all knowing all seeing attitude you have.

Due note, now that this toon is pretty well set in stone, my resistance is much higher than 11k, and nightmothers/dw maces/ sharpened trait is going to hit reallllly hard on your soft tender body, wheras your crappy s&b build aint got squat.

my wd with maces using self buffs atm is ~6600. I'm not the one making excuses.

Snape2255 · June 2016

@Ep1kMalware

For the third time, which you have decided to refuse to answer...again. What server are you on? It would be redundant to arrange this if you were on a different server. Also post your UPDATED stats, what use is a 2 month old screenshot? Ugh.

I repeat; you're assuming you're going to hit 11.3k damage on a biting jabs despite mitigation. *Sigh* For your information I'm not a Skeever.

Ep1kMalware · June 2016

Snape2255 wrote: »

@Ep1kMalware

For the third time, which you have decided to refuse to answer...again. What server are you on? It would be redundant to arrange this if you were on a different server. Also post your UPDATED stats, what use is a 2 month old screenshot? Ugh.

Cba turning on ps4 atm, so an old pic I dug from mobile will have to do. Ak=lso, for the 500th time, l2read.scroll up, info is there. Why don't you show us your stats buddy?

I repeat; you're assuming you're going to hit 11.3k damage on a biting jabs despite mitigation. *Sigh* For your information I'm not a Skeever.

You might as well be, as I'm going to ignore 90% of your scrubby physical resist anyway. If you *reallllly* wanna know for sure what they hit for in pvp you can post your death recap tomorrow.

hurry up it's 6am and I hit my bored limit a while ago. All this has concluded to is you not reading and making the same false circular excuses. Show up or shut up. -_-

Snape2255 · June 2016

You should have replied again instead of just editing a prior post assuming I'd read it. PS4 N/A and you run AD, not only are we on a different server but we are also the same alliance. Regardless from what I've seen your build isn't maintained well and you're over-exaggerating your DPS potential. At least I provided actual figures based on my actual damage. Shame.

Best of luck with your build. When you want to let me know your actual updated stats feel free. I'm seriously intrigued as to what sort of build you're so confident in and pulling off such damage again all that mitigation with.

It's quite amusing how this started as a harmless discussion, which turned into you belittling someone else's build and refusing to take into consideration all the benefits of their setup, then evolved into you getting increasingly angry and agitated then posting a screenshot displaying stats that are, quite frankly, shocking. Two months ago or not, those stats are horrendous and two months ago is no excuse for it as I am running sets that were around two months ago and still maintain better output than yours even on a "bad S&B scrubby setup".

For me to provide a death recap you'd have to have the potential to win. Based on what I've seen I can confidently say the chance were minimal. Not only do you seem to know nothing outside of your damage against an NPC that has minimal mitigation, you also seem to know nothing about your opponent's abilities and setup, which is not difficult to understand.

I've stated in the past that I am FULLY aware of how a Stamina Templar works as I run one myself. That character, for your information, maintains higher weapon damage than yours, with higher recovery. Unfortunately I have less max stamina (but I don't run max stat food). I would be interested to see your sets too. You said you had about 3.3k weapon damage, correct? Well...

Either way good luck, it's been entertaining. Thanks.

Ep1kMalware · June 2016

Snape2255 wrote: »

You should have replied again instead of just editing a prior post assuming I'd read it. PS4 N/A and you run AD, not only are we on a different server but we are also the same alliance. Regardless from what I've seen your build isn't maintained well and you're over-exaggerating your DPS potential. At least I provided actual figures based on my actual damage. Shame.

Best of luck with your build. When you want to let me know your actual updated stats feel free. I'm seriously intrigued as to what sort of build you're so confident in and pulling off such damage again all that mitigation with.

It's quite amusing how this started as a harmless discussion, which turned into you belittling someone else's build and refusing to take into consideration all the benefits of their setup, then evolved into you getting increasingly angry and agitated then posting a screenshot displaying stats that are, quite frankly, shocking. Two months ago or not, those stats are horrendous and two months ago is no excuse for it as I am running sets that were around two months ago and still maintain better output than yours even on a "bad S&B scrubby setup".

For me to provide a death recap you'd have to have the potential to win. Based on what I've seen I can confidently say the chance were minimal. Not only do you seem to know nothing outside of your damage against an NPC that has minimal mitigation, you also seem to know nothing about your opponent's abilities and setup, which is not difficult to understand.

I've stated in the past that I am FULLY aware of how a Stamina Templar works as I run one myself. That character, for your information, maintains higher weapon damage than yours, with higher recovery. Unfortunately I have less max stamina (but I don't run max stat food). I would be interested to see your sets too. You said you had about 3.3k weapon damage, correct? Well...

Either way good luck, it's been entertaining. Thanks.

I did post it, I corrected a typo. You did not provide any actual anything except excuses. I significantly doubt tou're ps/ue amd all your toons happen to be AD, more excuses. And yes, thay would be 3.3k weapon damage with no weapons thx to db update. I'm going to bed, I have a job I need slewp for, and a couple writs and time for coffee before that job would be preferable. I told you what my wd was. Here's a creen of my self buffs w/ bow (maelstrom bow would be significantly better).

Srsly, why can't tou read. with as many excuses as you throw I'm not inclined to believe tou play eu, but on the other hand your english skills definitely come up wanting.

This is NOT my pvp loadout, but it is exactlt what I use to tank cp160 wgt with, no healer. (and you said pve wasn't sustain,scrub).

Edit:
I'm also about 80% sure that if I swap to my precise bow I can absolutely 1 shot you from stealth with a single lethal arrow if you don't have completely full health. LA tooltips for 20.2k. would actually hit for:

20.2k+8%*1.9=41.45k
41.45k*.5=20.729k

crit is 1.5x dmg with .1% extra from passives, .3 from warhorn, so 1.9. that gives 41.45k dmg, with battle spirit that is again 20.7k dmg. Who's to say I don't cancel a mediu, weave with a poison injection as well. Also not factoring in distance bonus, too.

FFS my heavy attacks crit for over 30k.

Snape2255 · June 2016

So that's fully buffed and you're either running 2 piece Kena OR you're running Alchemist. Your Stamina recovery is <800 which would honestly get you killed if you couldn't 3 hit someone (which you wouldn't). You're also now reliant on potions and a gap of about 10-15 seconds to do ALL your damage if you're running Alchemist. If you're running Kena you've now made ALL your skills boost by 1/3rd of the resource cost, but you've got <800 Stamina Recovery which means you can't sustain that for longer than about 10 seconds?

You'd waste your entire stamina to try to hit someone who is dodging 20% of the attacks whilst dodge rolling and kiting you, AND CC'ing you. You're also not going to be able to heal due to the high cost rate of your heals if you're running Kena. Once your 10-15 seconds of Alchemist are up you're back down to some standard damage BUT you have still got that god damn awful recovery.

Your build is not viable for anything but a stealth gank on a mounted stamina-less player. Fantastic work pal, fantastic!

Everybody please take note. THAT RIGHT THERE is how you heal and DPS on a stamina character. Solely reliant on a 10-15 second gap for damage and having minimal mitigation and NO recovery. Everyone rework your characters now!

Edit: You're also running 0 Crit res, you'd get killed in about 3 hits from anyone with decent crit rate.

Why would you post such a shocking setup when we're discussing PVP? You're posting a setup that you use for PVE and bragging about the damage on it, you've actually displayed some awful recovery that makes me feel sorry for you to try and make a point, but you don't actually run it in PVP? Therefore your screenshot was embarrassingly pointless. Ugh.

Ep1kMalware · June 2016

Snape2255 wrote: »

So that's fully buffed and you're either running 2 piece Kena OR you're running Alchemist. Your Stamina recovery is <800 which would honestly get you killed if you couldn't 3 hit someone (which you wouldn't). You're also now reliant on potions and a gap of about 10-15 seconds to do ALL your damage if you're running Alchemist. If you're running Kena you've now made ALL your skills boost by 1/3rd of the resource cost, but you've got <800 Stamina Recovery which means you can't sustain that for longer than about 10 seconds?

You'd waste your entire stamina to try to hit someone who is dodging 20% of the attacks whilst dodge rolling and kiting you, AND CC'ing you. You're also not going to be able to heal due to the high cost rate of your heals if you're running Kena. Once your 10-15 seconds of Alchemist are up you're back down to some standard damage BUT you have still got that god damn awful recovery.

Your build is not viable for anything but a stealth gank on a mounted stamina-less player. Fantastic work pal, fantastic!

Everybody please take note. THAT RIGHT THERE is how you heal and DPS on a stamina character. Solely reliant on a 10-15 second gap for damage and having minimal mitigation and NO recovery. Everyone rework your characters now!

Edit: You're also running 0 Crit res, you'd get killed in about 3 hits from anyone with decent crit rate.

Why would you post such a shocking setup when we're discussing PVP? You're posting a setup that you use for PVE and bragging about the damage on it, you've actually displayed some awful recovery that makes me feel sorry for you to try and make a point, but you don't actually run it in PVP? Therefore your screenshot was embarrassingly pointless. Ugh.

You must be the dumbest person alive if you failed to read what I posted in all caps. I think you're an idiot, and at this point anything you say will be regarded as a trollpost.

I'm wearing 5pc vicious ophidian, al my skill costs with kena procced are equivelent to yours. Jabs cost me what? 1200 stam at most? Also that's not how to use kena, you don't proc and spam. Wait? why am Inarguing with the autistic?

Snape2255 · June 2016

20.7k On a lethal arrow from stealth, mitigation reduces this further and crit res reduces it even further. *Sigh*

That is provided I run past you and you ARE in stealth, which is an unlikely circumstance unless you're the type to sit there in stealth and avoid a direct confrontation.

You posted a screenshot of buffed damage from a Kena proc with horrendous recovery and nowhere near enough sustain to keep going past 10 seconds into a fight, you claim it's not for PVP YET you still posted it during a discussion ABOUT PVP. Yet you have the audacity to claim I am "the dumbest person alive". This is fantastic. I applaud you for your ability to even further make a *** out of yourself, your aptitude for doing so astounds me.

Ep1kMalware · June 2016

Snape2255 wrote: »

20.7k On a lethal arrow from stealth, mitigation reduces this further and crit res reduces it even further. *Sigh*

That is provided I run past you and you ARE in stealth, which is an unlikely circumstance unless you're the type to sit there in stealth and avoid a direct confrontation.

You posted a screenshot of buffed damage from a Kena proc with horrendous recovery and nowhere near enough sustain to keep going past 10 seconds into a fight, you claim it's not for PVP YET you still posted it during a discussion ABOUT PVP. Yet you have the audacity to claim I am "the dumbest person alive". This is fantastic. I applaud you for your ability to even further make a *** out of yourself, your aptitude for doing so astounds me.

funny, I can sustain 30k+ dps for several minutes on trial bosses with 700 recovery? My god, dude.. I run diffrent gear/skills/cp / weapons even,are you thay dumb? Also, if I hit you with LA and followed through with PI/medium all hit about the same time, even in pvp you eat like what, 37-40 burst? Why bother with full on confrontation. If I know I can pop my warhorm without getting detected I'm going to grab my free AP for the low cost of 240 ultimate. idiots like you are the exact reason we get bad updates.

I posted the pic after you whined for over an hour about not seeing my stats. where are your stats? for all we know you are a lvl 30 with 80nrecovery. You could be cp 100 with 900 recovery, 1.1k wd, and 18k max stamina. The difference between me and you is I step up and back up what I say. you make excuses, read between lines, and make up fantasy situations even zos couldn't come up with. Pvp encounters are brief. wham bam, thank you mam. Could be a simple ambush, suprise atk when you're cought at low health, could he 1v200 when you get a keep taken.. if you want 20 minute duels go fo=arm a malabuth set and go arena district.

enough is enough, you lied, made excuses, and did everytho=ing to avoid getting on youtube. But I don't need to kick your ass on an internet game when you're here beating yourself up intellectually.

Snape2255 · June 2016

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

enough is enough, you lied, made excuses, and did everytho=ing to avoid getting on youtube. But I don't need to kick your ass on an internet game when you're here beating yourself up intellectually.

This quote is really all I need to reply with here. Please review the entirety of this conversation. You'll see that the level of hypocrisy here is outstanding. *Sigh*

Go to work and stop making a fool of yourself bud.