Erondil wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Impen is really the flavor of the month isn't it? Suddenly, everyone MUST have it on everything, how did we ever live before this new "meta"?

Impen was even more mandatory in the old days when it actually shut down your ability to crit at all which meant not only less damage but also fewer ultimates in an era when fights were decided on who could drop the most ults. There were a few months in 1.6 when people didn't use it because most people didn't understand the change that was made to it with 1.6, its by no means a new meta.

It's also by no means, absolutely essential on every piece.

The general rule if you don't run full impen is to run infused on big pieces especially if you use prismatic glyphs, that means impen on a shoulder is in fact 100% mandatory.

Really depends of your build particularly what mundus tbf. 2-3 Divines is extremely strong if you go shadow for example, and well-fitted for solo stam builds is also a choice to consider (personally I never go without impen but I rarely go 7/7 impen aswell). But y agreed with OP undaunted keys should drop impen again. I mean just replace prosperous for impen in the loot table even PvErs rather have Impen than prosperous on their undaunted shoulder.

Yeah of course there are exceptions, roller blades will probably always prefer well fitted for example but I'm jsut saying as a general rule of thumb based on what most of the people I know are doing.

If they can put something as worthless to 99% of the population as prosperous and training on them, they can also throw something as useful as impen on them. Period.

I'm on board with the idea they need to make the gear Bind on Equip for both PVP/undaunted PVE gear, and only allow those gears to come from their respected areas so PVE and PVP find a Common Ground in Trading. maybe all the hostility wouldn't be so Humid all the damn time between the two factions and we could see some Teamwork in the Sense of our Two hardcore End-game player bases' that contrast either side of the Proverbial Casual.

KenaPKK wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Are you saying, PvPer's aren't allowed to do the undaunted quests?

PvPers use impen on everything. It's basically mandatory with few exceptions.

Can you not get Impen from Undaunted Chest?

I'm not being snarky, I actually don't know.

7/7 well-fitted master race. You don't need impen if you don't get hit in the first place.

Kidding, but right now I'm liking 3 well-fitted, 4 impen.

[snip] Nothing is stopping you from obtaining gold keys NOTHING! [snip]

[edited for mockery]

Paneross wrote: »

Nothing is stopping you from obtaining gold keys NOTHING!

Can't get impen with them though.

krathos wrote: »

They took impen out of the loot tables for helm AND key drops. That is what this is about. So getting gold keys is irrelevant since we have ZERO chance to get the trait many PvP players want right now. We can only get impen from the weekend merchant. If impen was still on PvE loot tables this wouldn't be an issue.

Wait what? They took impen out of the loot table for dungeon helm drops too??????? WTF?

[minor edit for quote]

We must consider that PVP players get relatively easy access to PVP sets, some of which are used in PVE (of course, a PVE player can pay to get them).

Also, PVPers have full access to the Assault and Support skillines (although I guess PVEers have access to Undaunted), and, although it doesn't matter after a point, access to more skill points due to Alliance Ranks.


Er...well writing this made me recognize that gear may lean a bit more to the PVE side.

I guess a good fix could be to make Monster Sets sellable, but then the market would be flooded with cheap, poorly traited helms and shoulders, and then some very expensive prime traits.

newtinmpls wrote: »

deathbyk1te wrote: »

RNG is still a ***. Much more so now that they added more garbage traits to the drop chance.

Why was that done again?

I thought it was a whole big deal when they took them out.

because they upped the drop rates significantly. helm drops are like 50% or more now and gold key guarantees a helm, silver keys are a high chance, and even bronze keys have a chance now too.

holosoul wrote: »

Jazbay_Grape wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Impenetrable is gargage. I'm a "hardcore" PVPer. Do you know what my crit resistance is? 68, because I have 1 CP into it.

90% of the time the best defense is a good offense. I run all infused and melt faces. I one shot an Emp last week.

This, of course, is where someone will tell me that whatever example I use isn't a good judge of how good you are at PVP, so I'll just reiterate that you don't need impenetrable to survive and in the right hands infused can be great.

Oh nice to meet you. People like you are the ones that give me ridiculously high crits on my stamblade. Always happy to see the big numbers. Keep it going please.

I tried this reasoning once ... and .. you're welcome.

well you're literally giving your opponents a free 25% crit modifier (it negates the _modifier_ directly, 1.5x -> 1.25x) in exchange for about 1000 of your main stat (7 infused). No argument you can make is possibly valid.

it's harder to play without impen. this is true. it's very doable tho, even 1vX.

though in lag, you die... a lot......

There shouldn't be one trait that is best above all others. All this tells us is that impen needs an adjustment, along with the crazy damage numbers. It should be worth it for one build to take another trait over impen.

Just thought of one more thing. There is a vampire passive this reduces damage when I'm under 50% health. I think it's called Undeath or something. Add that in and I'm taking even less damage.

Summary: you don't need impenetrable if you can figure out ways to achieve the same result.

@danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO
Since you asked so nicely I thought I would come respond.
I don't play magicka templar, so it's hard for me to comment about the dynamic of traits with magicka templar. I would like to know though, compared to an ideal setup of divines/infused compared to all slots of impen on the same items, are you fully aware of how much those traits contribute to the stats? I understand that magicka gets multiplied by CP and passives, but at the same time I also overstated the magicka gain from enchantments and divines.

For the sake of easy math, let's say that every small item gets 400 of a main stat, and every big item gets 900 (both are more than reality) before infused.

400 * 0.2 (infused) = 80 magicka
900 * 0.2 (infused) = 180 magicka
180 * 3 (large) = 540 magicka
80 * 4 (small) = 320 magicka
total: 860 max magicka from 7 infused
Then you add in passives, CP, and so forth, and I'm pretty sure this actually becomes around 1500 max magicka (being generous here)
Divines is a more complex case, but gets a similar result for every stat except crit chance (which is very complex in PVP, forgive me for not covering crit chance in detail here)
For example, if you have the warrior or the apprentice and you add divines to an item it adds something like 10 - 20 weapon damage.

So if you had for example, 40k max magicka instead of 42k max magicka, would your tooltip on BoL even be noticeably smaller? I found that infused and divines did not affect my tooltips in any meaningful way, and could only be interesting to an min/max PVE player trying to get an extra few % DPS, but having almost 0 impact on the high burst play styles of cyrodiil.

At the same time, every piece of gold impen gives 250 crit resistance.
250 * 7 = 1,750 crit resistance, which comes out roughly to a 25% crit bonus modifier reduction.
The way it works is if your opponent has say 100 cp in +crit on a gankblade build, their crit damage becomes 1.5x instead of 1.75x; and a player with 0 CP in +crit who has 1.5x crit damage would now have 1.25x crit damage and so forth. Simply subtract the crit resistance from their crit bonus multiplier (minimum 1x, can't do less damage than non crit)

I personally feel that no matter what your playstyle is, taking manageable burst damage will benefit you a lot. Simultaneously I find the gains from divines and infused to be focused toward the PVE side of the game, and provide marginal or almost no meaningful benefit in a PVP environment. Some of the other traits provide certain builds with exceptional perks, such as decisive, well-fitted, nirnhoned, sturdy, and reinforced (for completely different reasons)

Let's suppose for example, that you have a doppelganger.
Version A of you wears whatever maxes out your HPS/DPS the most (divines/infused perfect theoretical combo/items)
Version B of you wears that same set, but with all impenetrable
A and B attack each other
Who does more DPS in reality?
Version B will, because their traits reduced the DPS of version A far more significantly than version A increased them.
Who heals through damage more effectively?
again version B with the exact same playstyle will outperform version A, because they will take far less damage to begin with.

You can be the best player in the world, yet you would still only shine that much more reducing crits from 17k to 10k, especially if 8 - 10k crits don't even put you in execute range and entire combos no longer kill you, where before they would over-kill you.

So I suppose I challenge you to demonstrate a noticeable difference between having infused/divines and having no traits on your items whatsoever.
Then compare that to reaching 3k+ crit resistance or total immunity with transmutation

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

There shouldn't be one trait that is best above all others. All this tells us is that impen needs an adjustment, along with the crazy damage numbers. It should be worth it for one build to take another trait over impen.

I agree in theory but the reality is that there will always be a best in slot. Without making everything exactly the same there will always be certain traits/enchants/sets that combine together to be the most efficient you can possibly be for the activity you do.