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Inferno Staff or Lightning Staff as Sorc?
Arato
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Well now that the Storm Calling passive is all shock damage rather than just shock damage from storm calling skills, should sorcs start using shock damage staffs rather than fire? or is the 5% damage boost not as good as the fire burning DoT passive?
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Lord_Wrath✭✭✭✭✭Ive heard lightning staff is better. I used to use inferno and it did do good damage but lightning cannot be dodged and does aoe,i prefer for pvp. Along with the chance to fry them at low health and shock boost i would agree lightning is better.1300+ CP | Lørd Wrath | - Sorcerer - Palatine - Grand Master Crafter - 30000 Achievement Points
Launch Player - PC - NA - EP0 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's more the Heavy Attack than anything else that stops me from using the Lightening Staff. I can Weave better with Inferno. Plus, I can charge up the Heavy Attack as I approach a Mob and cancel that with a skill. Nice Burst.
I may have to try a Lightening Staff again on my Sorcerer with the new changes.
As for the After Effects of the various staffs, a while back someone did an analysis on the various staffs. The Over Time damage was about the same for all 3 staffs, when the total effects of the staves were taken into consideration. Now that the Lightening Staff gives a boost, it might be worth looking at again.Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"1 -
WuffyCerulei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Being a sorc, you get a bonus that increases shock damage, therefore a lightning staff is better."Buzz Lightyear toy isle shot" Stormcalling/Animal Companions/Assassination PVP build hater
Bring Back Pure Class Build Power0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The argument becomes: Burning Status DoT vs Off-Balance Exploiter + Sorc passive
Or Burning Status Dot vs +15% damage
I believe Burning Status DoT is based on Spell Damage/Max Magicka and I cannot find ANY numbers on it.
My build, The Daedric Shepherd link in my signature, uses lightning staff and AoEs over Fire Staff.Edited by Waffennacht on June 8, 2016 7:45PM1 -
iam117✭✭✭lightning staff. especially for aoe, just drop your dots and heavy attack, hello splash. its awesome this patch. get infallable gear, watch single target dps get crazy too.
il just leave this here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/259089/noss-no-spammable-sorc-build-db-ready/p1<Liv3mind><PC/NA - Legion Of The Bloodworks>Snowflake Patrol0 -
Vythri✭✭✭✭The entire idea of a channeled heavy attack in this game with the animation cancelling is stupid.2 -
darthsithis✭✭✭The entire idea of a channeled heavy attack in this game with the animation cancelling is stupid.
sorry, are you saying its pointless to stand there holding attack when you could be weaving? not sure what you mean.Message me if you want to do trials/dungeons, or need a trading guild! Flawless conqueror magsorc with a bad sense of armor fashion.0 -
darthsithis✭✭✭or that it is hard to weave with a lightning staff?Message me if you want to do trials/dungeons, or need a trading guild! Flawless conqueror magsorc with a bad sense of armor fashion.0
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iam117✭✭✭darthsithis wrote: »or that it is hard to weave with a lightning staff?
not sure, but light weaving with lightning staff is very simple. maybe he is refering to med/heavy attack weaving and the fact that lightning staff is a channel and does not heavy attack weave because it doesnt "charge" and release.<Liv3mind><PC/NA - Legion Of The Bloodworks>Snowflake Patrol0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There are a couple of things that are going to factor into this:
First, if you are Dunmer, than there is absolutely no debate. Fire is better.
Second, another thing to consider is that Blockade is now a huge part of a sorc DPS. If anyone saw the StreakOne video of him pulling 40K+ on the twin bosses in Vet MOL, the highest thing on his damage recap was Blockade. I dont pull 40k, but I can get in the high twenties on that fight while running chains on my DK, and blockade is the highest for me as well. That skill is crazy good right now, especially if you have a VMA staff. Fire Blockade hits harder.
Third, is weaving. Weaving with a lightening staff means you have to light weave 100% of the time. Almost any good sorc runs Kena in PVE. That means kena is up close to 100% of the time. This is fine on short fights, but on 5 minute fights, you need to be able to medium weave occasionally to mange your resources. In PVP, heavy attacks can be huge for burst. Fire is better for that as well.
Personally, I would go fire. Only way I would go lightening is if its the only VMA staff you have, AND you got someone running elemental drain for you 24/7.
Edit: added a few thingsEdited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on June 8, 2016 7:56PM1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭wolfninja101b14_ESO wrote: »Being a sorc, you get a bonus that increases shock damage, therefore a lightning staff is better.
The first part of the statement is true, the conclusion is missing a few things you didnt consider.1 -
iam117✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »There are a couple of things that are going to factor into this:
First, if you are Dunmer, than there is absolutely no debate. Fire is better.
Second, another thing to consider is that Blockade is now a huge part of a sorc DPS. If anyone saw the StreakOne video of him pulling 40K+ on the twin bosses in Vet MOL, the highest thing on his damage recap was Blockade. I dont pull 40k, but I can get in the high twenties on that fight while running chains on my DK, and blockade is the highest for me as well. That skill is crazy good right now, especially if you have a VMA staff. Fire Blockade hits harder.
Third, is weaving. Weaving with a lightening staff means you have to light weave 100% of the time. Almost any good sorc runs Kena in PVE. That means kena is up close to 100% of the time. This is fine on short fights, but on 5 minute fights, you need to be able to medium weave occasionally to mange your resources. In PVP, heavy attacks can be huge for burst. Fire is better for that as well.
Personally, I would go fire. Only way I would go lightening is if its the only VMA staff you have.
usually im spot on in agreement with you in almost every thread, this one though i will respectfully disagree with you based on SITUATION only, here are my comments on them, please take them with a grain of salt as this is my experience and results may vary:
1. this is completely true EXCEPT when in an aoe situation (more on this below)
2. Streakone is crazy good at sorc, no doubt, and by far outshines me :P but i actually think that his (and every sorc) dps in theory could go higher specifically in that fight and in any multi target situation, specifically with lightning staff. the second fight in vmol heavy attack with a lightning staff while keeping dots up is actually stronger than the normal rotation when there are the boss+2 adds or more, the splash damage is insane, and you always have full resources. if you manage to get infallable set this gets crazy, while testing on pts we were able to get 11k-14k TICKS on the channel, and this was with a 300cp template and purple gear. regardless of race the single target+splash damage outshines, its 30% of the dmg falling off onto EACH add, plus your dots, force pulse and woe/inferno do not come close. imagine that with the 4 add phase!!!
3. Kena yes, the sustain, either way, with the method mentioned in point 2 ^^, sustain becomes a thing of the past, ive found as long as ele is applied and orbs come out sustain is fine during the longer single target phases, once the adds drop, swap to heavies on the lightning and your dps increases while gaining infinite resources, but we found that skoria actually provides more dps that kena in these situations, because we have specced more into dots in cp etc. but again results may vary.
anyway i dont mean this to be argumentative and i respect your op and find usually we align, but i think these are some valid points that apply.
@Oreyn_Bearclaw usually i come into a thread ready to spit fire, only to realize you said what i wanted to and repeating in my own words would be well.........still........repetitive....Edited by iam117 on June 8, 2016 8:30PM<Liv3mind><PC/NA - Legion Of The Bloodworks>Snowflake Patrol1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »There are a couple of things that are going to factor into this:
First, if you are Dunmer, than there is absolutely no debate. Fire is better.
Second, another thing to consider is that Blockade is now a huge part of a sorc DPS. If anyone saw the StreakOne video of him pulling 40K+ on the twin bosses in Vet MOL, the highest thing on his damage recap was Blockade. I dont pull 40k, but I can get in the high twenties on that fight while running chains on my DK, and blockade is the highest for me as well. That skill is crazy good right now, especially if you have a VMA staff. Fire Blockade hits harder.
Third, is weaving. Weaving with a lightening staff means you have to light weave 100% of the time. Almost any good sorc runs Kena in PVE. That means kena is up close to 100% of the time. This is fine on short fights, but on 5 minute fights, you need to be able to medium weave occasionally to mange your resources. In PVP, heavy attacks can be huge for burst. Fire is better for that as well.
Personally, I would go fire. Only way I would go lightening is if its the only VMA staff you have.
usually im spot on in agreement with you in almost every thread, this one though i will respectfully disagree with you based on SITUATION only, here are my comments on them, please take them with a grain of salt as this is my experience and results may vary:
1. this is completely true EXCEPT when in an aoe situation (more on this below)
2. Streakone is crazy good at sorc, no doubt, and by far outshines me :P but i actually think that his (and every sorc) dps in theory could go higher specifically in that fight and in any multi target situation, specifically with lightning staff. the second fight in vmol heavy attack with a lightning staff while keeping dots up is actually stronger than the normal rotation when there are the boss+2 adds or more, the splash damage is insane, and you always have full resources. if you manage to get infallable set this gets crazy, while testing on pts we were able to get 11k-14k TICKS on the channel, and this was with a 300cp template and purple gear. regardless of race the single target+splash damage outshines, its 30% of the dmg falling off onto EACH add, plus your dots, force pulse and woe/inferno do not come close. imagine that with the 4 add phase!!!
3. Kena yes, the sustain, either way, with the method mentioned in point 2 ^^, sustain becomes a thing of the past, ive found as long as ele is applied and orbs come out sustain is fine during the longer single target phases, once the adds drop, swap to heavies on the lightning and your dps increases while gaining infinite resources, but we found that skoria actually provides more dps that kena in these situations, because we have specced more into dots in cp etc. but again results may vary.
anyway i dont mean this to be argumentative and i respect your op and find usually we align, but i think these are some valid points that apply.
I will never take intelligent discourse or debate in a negative way. I am certainly not always right.
Yep, StreakOne (Jace) is ridiculous. He outshines everyone, so dont feel bad. I run dungeons with him all the time, particularly ICP, and some of the numbers I see him pull are simply mind blowing. "jace is hacking again" is the constant joke, but I know he isnt. Haha Ill get excited that I just posted 40k on some boss dungeon (with adds of course) and then he posts 50-60K. haha. It's nuts.
You make some interesting points about the channel that I would obviously need to test before I can comment further. Functionally, I dont like a channeled heavy attack, but this might make sense. Something to think about, people really dont "AOE" in the traditional sense on these fights. They single target adds, but of course many DoTs do cause AoE damage. My instinct is that swapping to a heavy channel attack on this fights, even if the splash damage is good, would be a DPS loss because you arent proc'ing your frags, for a start, but again, I would need to test.
As for the Kena/Skoria Debate, I only run Kena on a sorc and NB. I dont on other classes. There is a lot of math out there to suggest which is better. To know which is better, you need to know the kena up time. People like Streak have uptimes close to 100%, so kena tends to be better. Most of use mere mortals have a lot of trouble doing that, so a passive damage buff like skoria is better. I know streak used to run a lightening staff, but i am pretty sure he switched permanently a while back. I remember him being particularly aggravated with me at the time, when I had a sharpened lightening staff drop in VMA. Oh how I wish it was inferno...Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on June 8, 2016 8:30PM2 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭PVE - fire staff
PVP - lightning, because fire heavy gets reflected constantly. The channel lightning attack hits blocking dodge rollers.
Keep one of each and switch as necessary.Edited by Minalan on June 8, 2016 8:36PM0 -
iam117✭✭✭@Oreyn_Bearclaw have you seen nos's build thread? i was fairly involved in the testing on pts, we are still getting the divines infallable gear together in live to test it, but it had great results on pts, even with a template toon. give a read if you haven't:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/259089/noss-no-spammable-sorc-build-db-ready/p1
as to the kena remark, while running the normal force pulse rotation/frags i am able to get about 65-70% uptime at most, and it still outshines skoria, BUT when using the heavy channeled attacks, skoria is much more reliable because weaving light attacks can be cumbersome. once you get the proper armor and jewelry, monster sets are actually a thing of the past and not even used. the build mentioned above is a very niche build, and comes with alot of dot application, therefore could be difficult for some to get used to, and it requires very specific gear, again an issue, but it has great potential:
taken from nos: Lightning Staff is lightning damage, staff damage and DoT damage. This means that it takes advantage of 3 CP stars and thus draws on more sources of DPS buffs. This makes its full DPS potential to be off the charts. The automatic AoE is nice because each additional add automatically doubles your DPS.Edited by iam117 on June 8, 2016 8:45PM<Liv3mind><PC/NA - Legion Of The Bloodworks>Snowflake Patrol0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Oreyn_Bearclaw have you seen nos's build thread? i was fairly involved in the testing on pts, we are still getting the divines infallable gear together in live to test it, but it had great results on pts, even with a template toon. give a read if you haven't:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/259089/noss-no-spammable-sorc-build-db-ready/p1
as to the kena remark, while running the normal force pulse rotation/frags i am able to get about 65-70% uptime at most, and it still outshines skoria, BUT when using the heavy channeled attacks, skoria is much more reliable because weaving light attacks can be cumbersome. once you get the proper armor and jewelry, monster sets are actually a thing of the past and not even used. the build mentioned above is a very niche build, and comes with alot of dot application, therefore could be difficult for some to get used to, and it requires very specific gear, again an issue, but it has great potential:
taken from nos: Lightning Staff is lightning damage, staff damage and DoT damage. This means that it takes advantage of 3 CP stars and thus draws on more sources of DPS buffs. This makes its full DPS potential to be off the charts. The automatic AoE is nice because each additional add automatically doubles your DPS.
I haven't but it definitely sounds interesting. I will check it out for sure. Sounds like it could certainly shift the meta if it pans out. Ill hold off on deconstructing my VMA lightening for a bit. Haha. All that being said, for your average joe, I am still probably going to suggest Inferno staff in the meantime. 1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PVE - fire staff
PVP - lightning, because fire heavy gets reflected constantly. The channel lightning attack hits blocking dodge rollers.
Keep one of each and switch as necessary.
That is something I did not eve consider. I dont PVP much on my sorc, but DKs and their scales are the worst because basically all of our attacks can be reflected. Sounds like this might solve the problem.
Wood and rosin are cheap, make both and see what you like. That's probably the best answer.0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »There are a couple of things that are going to factor into this:
First, if you are Dunmer, than there is absolutely no debate. Fire is better.
Second, another thing to consider is that Blockade is now a huge part of a sorc DPS. If anyone saw the StreakOne video of him pulling 40K+ on the twin bosses in Vet MOL, the highest thing on his damage recap was Blockade. I dont pull 40k, but I can get in the high twenties on that fight while running chains on my DK, and blockade is the highest for me as well. That skill is crazy good right now, especially if you have a VMA staff. Fire Blockade hits harder.
Third, is weaving. Weaving with a lightening staff means you have to light weave 100% of the time. Almost any good sorc runs Kena in PVE. That means kena is up close to 100% of the time. This is fine on short fights, but on 5 minute fights, you need to be able to medium weave occasionally to mange your resources. In PVP, heavy attacks can be huge for burst. Fire is better for that as well.
Personally, I would go fire. Only way I would go lightening is if its the only VMA staff you have.
usually im spot on in agreement with you in almost every thread, this one though i will respectfully disagree with you based on SITUATION only, here are my comments on them, please take them with a grain of salt as this is my experience and results may vary:
1. this is completely true EXCEPT when in an aoe situation (more on this below)
2. Streakone is crazy good at sorc, no doubt, and by far outshines me :P but i actually think that his (and every sorc) dps in theory could go higher specifically in that fight and in any multi target situation, specifically with lightning staff. the second fight in vmol heavy attack with a lightning staff while keeping dots up is actually stronger than the normal rotation when there are the boss+2 adds or more, the splash damage is insane, and you always have full resources. if you manage to get infallable set this gets crazy, while testing on pts we were able to get 11k-14k TICKS on the channel, and this was with a 300cp template and purple gear. regardless of race the single target+splash damage outshines, its 30% of the dmg falling off onto EACH add, plus your dots, force pulse and woe/inferno do not come close. imagine that with the 4 add phase!!!
3. Kena yes, the sustain, either way, with the method mentioned in point 2 ^^, sustain becomes a thing of the past, ive found as long as ele is applied and orbs come out sustain is fine during the longer single target phases, once the adds drop, swap to heavies on the lightning and your dps increases while gaining infinite resources, but we found that skoria actually provides more dps that kena in these situations, because we have specced more into dots in cp etc. but again results may vary.
anyway i dont mean this to be argumentative and i respect your op and find usually we align, but i think these are some valid points that apply.
I will never take intelligent discourse or debate in a negative way. I am certainly not always right. Yep, StreakOne (Jace) is ridiculous. He outshines everyone, so dont feel bad. I run dungeons with him all the time, particularly ICP, and some of the numbers I see him pull are simply mind blowing. "jace is hacking again" is the constant joke, but I know he isnt. Haha Ill get excited that I just posted 40k on some boss dungeon (with adds of course) and then he posts 50-60K. haha. It's nuts.
You make some interesting points about the channel that I would obviously need to test before I can comment further. Functionally, I dont like a channeled heavy attack, but this might make sense. Something to think about, people really dont "AOE" in the traditional sense on these fights. They single target adds, but of course many DoTs do cause AoE damage. My instinct is that swapping to a heavy channel attack on this fights, even if the splash damage is good, would be a DPS loss because you arent proc'ing your frags, for a start, but again, I would need to test.
As for the Kena/Skoria Debate, I only run Kena on a sorc and NB. I dont on other classes. There is a lot of math out there to suggest which is better. To know which is better, you need to know the kena up time. People like Streak have uptimes close to 100%, so kena tends to be better. Most of use mere mortals have a lot of trouble doing that, so a passive damage buff like skoria is better. I know streak used to run a lightening staff, but i am pretty sure he switched permanently a while back. I remember him being particularly aggravated with me at the time, when I had a sharpened lightening staff drop in VMA. Oh how I wish it was inferno...
Just so you know 100% on Kena uptime is impossible. Neither is 90%. Most people's uptime never exceeds 75%. This is because even if you light weave everything, kena cannot be re procced during its uptime, but only after it runs out. Meaning you will have a downtime of at least a second between reprocs. With one second cooldown it's uptime drops to 85%. I have looked over many elite player's uptime on Kena in a whole fight duration. I have yet to see numbers above 75% for anyone and that includes all of hodor. Majority of people have it up between 50 and 60% of the fight. That is a 200-250 spell damage difference. Sorcs that use overload benefit the most from it, but judging by how quickly it depletes it, it's hard to justify it even in those cases. Nerieneth allows one to always medium weave if you're using a fire stave and easily does 4k+ dps in fights where there is AoE. But whe go either route? Just put on some infallible and heavy attack. FHA ftw:)1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »There are a couple of things that are going to factor into this:
First, if you are Dunmer, than there is absolutely no debate. Fire is better.
Second, another thing to consider is that Blockade is now a huge part of a sorc DPS. If anyone saw the StreakOne video of him pulling 40K+ on the twin bosses in Vet MOL, the highest thing on his damage recap was Blockade. I dont pull 40k, but I can get in the high twenties on that fight while running chains on my DK, and blockade is the highest for me as well. That skill is crazy good right now, especially if you have a VMA staff. Fire Blockade hits harder.
Third, is weaving. Weaving with a lightening staff means you have to light weave 100% of the time. Almost any good sorc runs Kena in PVE. That means kena is up close to 100% of the time. This is fine on short fights, but on 5 minute fights, you need to be able to medium weave occasionally to mange your resources. In PVP, heavy attacks can be huge for burst. Fire is better for that as well.
Personally, I would go fire. Only way I would go lightening is if its the only VMA staff you have.
usually im spot on in agreement with you in almost every thread, this one though i will respectfully disagree with you based on SITUATION only, here are my comments on them, please take them with a grain of salt as this is my experience and results may vary:
1. this is completely true EXCEPT when in an aoe situation (more on this below)
2. Streakone is crazy good at sorc, no doubt, and by far outshines me :P but i actually think that his (and every sorc) dps in theory could go higher specifically in that fight and in any multi target situation, specifically with lightning staff. the second fight in vmol heavy attack with a lightning staff while keeping dots up is actually stronger than the normal rotation when there are the boss+2 adds or more, the splash damage is insane, and you always have full resources. if you manage to get infallable set this gets crazy, while testing on pts we were able to get 11k-14k TICKS on the channel, and this was with a 300cp template and purple gear. regardless of race the single target+splash damage outshines, its 30% of the dmg falling off onto EACH add, plus your dots, force pulse and woe/inferno do not come close. imagine that with the 4 add phase!!!
3. Kena yes, the sustain, either way, with the method mentioned in point 2 ^^, sustain becomes a thing of the past, ive found as long as ele is applied and orbs come out sustain is fine during the longer single target phases, once the adds drop, swap to heavies on the lightning and your dps increases while gaining infinite resources, but we found that skoria actually provides more dps that kena in these situations, because we have specced more into dots in cp etc. but again results may vary.
anyway i dont mean this to be argumentative and i respect your op and find usually we align, but i think these are some valid points that apply.
I will never take intelligent discourse or debate in a negative way. I am certainly not always right. Yep, StreakOne (Jace) is ridiculous. He outshines everyone, so dont feel bad. I run dungeons with him all the time, particularly ICP, and some of the numbers I see him pull are simply mind blowing. "jace is hacking again" is the constant joke, but I know he isnt. Haha Ill get excited that I just posted 40k on some boss dungeon (with adds of course) and then he posts 50-60K. haha. It's nuts.
You make some interesting points about the channel that I would obviously need to test before I can comment further. Functionally, I dont like a channeled heavy attack, but this might make sense. Something to think about, people really dont "AOE" in the traditional sense on these fights. They single target adds, but of course many DoTs do cause AoE damage. My instinct is that swapping to a heavy channel attack on this fights, even if the splash damage is good, would be a DPS loss because you arent proc'ing your frags, for a start, but again, I would need to test.
As for the Kena/Skoria Debate, I only run Kena on a sorc and NB. I dont on other classes. There is a lot of math out there to suggest which is better. To know which is better, you need to know the kena up time. People like Streak have uptimes close to 100%, so kena tends to be better. Most of use mere mortals have a lot of trouble doing that, so a passive damage buff like skoria is better. I know streak used to run a lightening staff, but i am pretty sure he switched permanently a while back. I remember him being particularly aggravated with me at the time, when I had a sharpened lightening staff drop in VMA. Oh how I wish it was inferno...
Just so you know 100% on Kena uptime is impossible. Neither is 90%. Most people's uptime never exceeds 75%. This is because even if you light weave everything, kena cannot be re procced during its uptime, but only after it runs out. Meaning you will have a downtime of at least a second between reprocs. With one second cooldown it's uptime drops to 85%. I have looked over many elite player's uptime on Kena in a whole fight duration. I have yet to see numbers above 75% for anyone and that includes all of hodor. Majority of people have it up between 50 and 60% of the fight. That is a 200-250 spell damage difference. Sorcs that use overload benefit the most from it, but judging by how quickly it depletes it, it's hard to justify it even in those cases. Nerieneth allows one to always medium weave if you're using a fire stave and easily does 4k+ dps in fights where there is AoE. But whe go either route? Just put on some infallible and heavy attack. FHA ftw:)
100% is impossible no question about it. I was oversimplifying of course. It takes 2 weaves to proc (2 seconds) and is up for 6, so you are right that around 75% (6 of 8 seconds) is really all you can hope for in a fight on paper. I think it can in practice be be a little higher depending on your weave. If your first light attack happens right as it expires, your downtime will be less than two seconds. I guess I should have said that people try to keep it up 100%, in other words, immediately proc on cooldown. That is very difficult from both a button pressing and a sustain standpoint.0 -
Vythri✭✭✭✭darthsithis wrote: »
Yes, why stand there holding in your staff attack when you could be weaving in skills and increasing your dps? And yes, you can light attack, but I find that more clunky to execute compared to a fire or ice staff that doesn't go immediately into channeling if you hold your finger down for a split second too long.Edited by Vythri on June 9, 2016 12:00AM0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »There are a couple of things that are going to factor into this:
First, if you are Dunmer, than there is absolutely no debate. Fire is better.
Second, another thing to consider is that Blockade is now a huge part of a sorc DPS. If anyone saw the StreakOne video of him pulling 40K+ on the twin bosses in Vet MOL, the highest thing on his damage recap was Blockade. I dont pull 40k, but I can get in the high twenties on that fight while running chains on my DK, and blockade is the highest for me as well. That skill is crazy good right now, especially if you have a VMA staff. Fire Blockade hits harder.
Third, is weaving. Weaving with a lightening staff means you have to light weave 100% of the time. Almost any good sorc runs Kena in PVE. That means kena is up close to 100% of the time. This is fine on short fights, but on 5 minute fights, you need to be able to medium weave occasionally to mange your resources. In PVP, heavy attacks can be huge for burst. Fire is better for that as well.
Personally, I would go fire. Only way I would go lightening is if its the only VMA staff you have.
usually im spot on in agreement with you in almost every thread, this one though i will respectfully disagree with you based on SITUATION only, here are my comments on them, please take them with a grain of salt as this is my experience and results may vary:
1. this is completely true EXCEPT when in an aoe situation (more on this below)
2. Streakone is crazy good at sorc, no doubt, and by far outshines me :P but i actually think that his (and every sorc) dps in theory could go higher specifically in that fight and in any multi target situation, specifically with lightning staff. the second fight in vmol heavy attack with a lightning staff while keeping dots up is actually stronger than the normal rotation when there are the boss+2 adds or more, the splash damage is insane, and you always have full resources. if you manage to get infallable set this gets crazy, while testing on pts we were able to get 11k-14k TICKS on the channel, and this was with a 300cp template and purple gear. regardless of race the single target+splash damage outshines, its 30% of the dmg falling off onto EACH add, plus your dots, force pulse and woe/inferno do not come close. imagine that with the 4 add phase!!!
3. Kena yes, the sustain, either way, with the method mentioned in point 2 ^^, sustain becomes a thing of the past, ive found as long as ele is applied and orbs come out sustain is fine during the longer single target phases, once the adds drop, swap to heavies on the lightning and your dps increases while gaining infinite resources, but we found that skoria actually provides more dps that kena in these situations, because we have specced more into dots in cp etc. but again results may vary.
anyway i dont mean this to be argumentative and i respect your op and find usually we align, but i think these are some valid points that apply.
I will never take intelligent discourse or debate in a negative way. I am certainly not always right. Yep, StreakOne (Jace) is ridiculous. He outshines everyone, so dont feel bad. I run dungeons with him all the time, particularly ICP, and some of the numbers I see him pull are simply mind blowing. "jace is hacking again" is the constant joke, but I know he isnt. Haha Ill get excited that I just posted 40k on some boss dungeon (with adds of course) and then he posts 50-60K. haha. It's nuts.
You make some interesting points about the channel that I would obviously need to test before I can comment further. Functionally, I dont like a channeled heavy attack, but this might make sense. Something to think about, people really dont "AOE" in the traditional sense on these fights. They single target adds, but of course many DoTs do cause AoE damage. My instinct is that swapping to a heavy channel attack on this fights, even if the splash damage is good, would be a DPS loss because you arent proc'ing your frags, for a start, but again, I would need to test.
As for the Kena/Skoria Debate, I only run Kena on a sorc and NB. I dont on other classes. There is a lot of math out there to suggest which is better. To know which is better, you need to know the kena up time. People like Streak have uptimes close to 100%, so kena tends to be better. Most of use mere mortals have a lot of trouble doing that, so a passive damage buff like skoria is better. I know streak used to run a lightening staff, but i am pretty sure he switched permanently a while back. I remember him being particularly aggravated with me at the time, when I had a sharpened lightening staff drop in VMA. Oh how I wish it was inferno...
Just so you know 100% on Kena uptime is impossible. Neither is 90%. Most people's uptime never exceeds 75%. This is because even if you light weave everything, kena cannot be re procced during its uptime, but only after it runs out. Meaning you will have a downtime of at least a second between reprocs. With one second cooldown it's uptime drops to 85%. I have looked over many elite player's uptime on Kena in a whole fight duration. I have yet to see numbers above 75% for anyone and that includes all of hodor. Majority of people have it up between 50 and 60% of the fight. That is a 200-250 spell damage difference. Sorcs that use overload benefit the most from it, but judging by how quickly it depletes it, it's hard to justify it even in those cases. Nerieneth allows one to always medium weave if you're using a fire stave and easily does 4k+ dps in fights where there is AoE. But whe go either route? Just put on some infallible and heavy attack. FHA ftw:)
100% is impossible no question about it. I was oversimplifying of course. It takes 2 weaves to proc (2 seconds) and is up for 6, so you are right that around 75% (6 of 8 seconds) is really all you can hope for in a fight on paper. I think it can in practice be be a little higher depending on your weave. If your first light attack happens right as it expires, your downtime will be less than two seconds. I guess I should have said that people try to keep it up 100%, in other words, immediately proc on cooldown. That is very difficult from both a button pressing and a sustain standpoint.
yeah for sure...i hate it so much...0 -
ForsakenSin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Any chance we can get what build StreakOn is using ect ?"By many i am seen as hero...as a savior of the Tamriel i will not stop until every Daedra every evil there is in Tamriel is vanquish by my hands..
However i do this for my own purpose to gain trust of mortals to worship me and to eliminate my competition i will not bend my knee to lead your army to serve you Molag Bal , i will simply just take it from you.."--- Forsaken Sin( Magica Sorc)Arise From Darkness Forsaken SIn
"You have been a loyal High Elf Magica Sorc
Conjure of Darkness, Master of Magic
Killer of Molag Bal and Savior of Ebonheart Pact
Until Dark Brotherhood killed you...
but now..NOW its time to Arise From Darkness once again..."0 -
acw37162✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would go lightening always with a sorc if you have the passives and spend at least 75 CP in thamaturge to get the extra damage against off balance enemies.
It just synergies better.
If you prefer fire and ice for the weaving potential your not wrong.
If you don't like the play style of channeled attack stuck with fire but for he best synergy lightening.0 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭In theory, lightning staff is the best for mSorc by a wide margin. Sadly though, the practical choice is fire.
Lightning basic attacks are much harder to weave between skills and often light attacks bug out and force your character to do a full heavy attack animation, often resulting in a DPS loss or death.
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STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Any love here for ice staff?
Comparison?
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
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First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Foxic✭✭✭✭✭Lightning used to be better. But now with how strong fire blockade is. Inferno is the obvious choiceMechanically Challenged, PCNA competitive raid guild
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First NA vAS Hardmode(#2 world)
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Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you are considering lightning for PVP keep in mind just about everyone is now vampire...0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I've heard that some Magicka DK's can stack fire staff heavy attacks up to 30K.
My question: how?0 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I prefer fire by far.
Weaving with Crushing shock is a lot better than heavy attacking with a lightning staff.0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I prefer fire by far.
Weaving with Crushing shock is a lot better than heavy attacking with a lightning staff.
Depending on your gear...0