NB vs Sorc vs DK: Archer

Hauztein · June 2016

Im building a pure archer and analyzing class passives and support skills.

Think like that: im not a trial player, neither pvp... i just do pve world/dungeon/arena, so i dont need max dps, i need to stay alive and kill things... maybe the hardest content i could try is vma, solo world bosses and solo adventure zones. ALSO, im analyzing class support and passives, not dmg skills... since i would just use weapon skills for damage. (any better idea?)

NB has:
- crit chance and dmg (not much cause i woudnt use more than 1 assassination skill slotted)
- 8% dmg
- fear
- dmg from stealth
- stam regen 15%
- major brutality at melee range

and not much else for stamina bow build.

DK has:
- HEALs
- stam and health regen
- spell resist
- major brutality
- 5% weapon dmg
(seems already better than NB)

Sorc has:
- major brutality
- max stamina
- stam regen
- stam cost reduc
- shield (weak)
- snare/immobilize
- physical dmg 5%
- healing through crits
- weapon dmg (2% each slotted)
(also seems better than NB)

Am i wrong or, for that role, dk and sorc are much better classes to support bow skills?
I know that for pure dps crit NB wins, but is not the case, i wont even will enter a trial in my life. NB seems the worst class for solo pve. Any input?

MaxwellC · June 2016

Well health regen is pretty useless unless you're tanking and spell resist wouldn't make sense for an archer play at all especially when bows are physical damage and with that case NBs physical resist passive suits it better.
We don't have increased stamina regen so I'm not sure where you got that from but we do get returns from stamina (5%) upon using earthen heart abilities.
As a stamina we don't have HEALS that are CLASS specific but we have heals that every class can utilize when it comes to stamina.

I'll fix it for you. DKs have Increased Poison DMG Passive, Major Brutality and minor brutality + we have stamina returns. I could add the ultimate resource return but nah I won't since that's an ultimate I'll keep it at skills.

IMO DK is really good at bows but so are NBs especially with that cloak hit that will stun you.

Hauztein · June 2016

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

Well health regen is pretty useless unless you're tanking and spell resist wouldn't make sense for an archer play at all especially when bows are physical damage and with that case NBs physical resist passive suits it better.
We don't have increased stamina regen so I'm not sure where you got that from but we do get returns from stamina (5%) upon using earthen heart abilities.
As a stamina we don't have HEALS that are CLASS specific but we have heals that every class can utilize when it comes to stamina.

I'll fix it for you. DKs have Increased Poison DMG Passive, Major Brutality and minor brutality + we have stamina returns. I could add the ultimate resource return but nah I won't since that's an ultimate I'll keep it at skills.

IMO DK is really good at bows but so are NBs especially with that cloak hit that will stun you.

Healing i meant green dragon blood. although is a small heal but is instant, nb has none.

Anti_Virus · June 2016

Choose NB they synergies best with the bow because of mark target, and cloak.

Lynx7386 · June 2016

NB has:
- crit chance and dmg (not much cause i woudnt use more than 1 assassination skill slotted)
- 8% dmg
- fear
- dmg from stealth
- stam regen 15%
- major brutality at melee range
and not much else for stamina bow build.

DK has:
- HEALs
- stam and health regen
- spell resist
- major brutality
- 5% weapon dmg
(seems already better than NB)

Sorc has:
- major brutality
- max stamina
- stam regen
- stam cost reduc
- shield (weak)
- snare/immobilize
- physical dmg 5%
- healing through crits
- weapon dmg (2% each slotted)
(also seems better than NB)

I wouldnt put "HEALS" as a big buff on the DK. Green dragonblood costs too much and returns too little health, especially in pvp (only 16% of missing health, pretty sad heal). The only real healing advantage a dk has comes from access to the major mending buff, which lasts 6 seconds after you cast igneous shield. That buff will make your vigor/rally heal for 25% more.

I also wouldnt count the sorc's shield, you wont be using it as a stamina build. Bone shield is the new option for stamina builds, even though it still scales on health instead of stamina. Same goes for the snare/immobilize: you already get that from bombardment, no need to waste magicka on it.
You should also keep in mind that sorceror is absolutely terrible for stamina builds at lower levels. You'd be better off getting to 20-30 minimum as a magicka build, and then swapping once you have surge unlocked, because prior to that you're going to need to be slotting a lot of lightning skills and not getting much use out of them due to low resource pool.

IMO, nightblade is still the best archer around, though DK and sorc arent all that far behind.

Stannum · June 2016

For pure bow DPS NB is still the best. As for vMA pure bow is not a good choice may be bow\2H sorc will be better. As for soloing content like world bosses\public dngns it is not hard at all an could be easily done by any viable build.

Xsorus · June 2016

Lynx7386 wrote: »

NB has:
- crit chance and dmg (not much cause i woudnt use more than 1 assassination skill slotted)
- 8% dmg
- fear
- dmg from stealth
- stam regen 15%
- major brutality at melee range
and not much else for stamina bow build.

DK has:
- HEALs
- stam and health regen
- spell resist
- major brutality
- 5% weapon dmg
(seems already better than NB)

Sorc has:
- major brutality
- max stamina
- stam regen
- stam cost reduc
- shield (weak)
- snare/immobilize
- physical dmg 5%
- healing through crits
- weapon dmg (2% each slotted)
(also seems better than NB)

I wouldnt put "HEALS" as a big buff on the DK. Green dragonblood costs too much and returns too little health, especially in pvp (only 16% of missing health, pretty sad heal). The only real healing advantage a dk has comes from access to the major mending buff, which lasts 6 seconds after you cast igneous shield. That buff will make your vigor/rally heal for 25% more.

I also wouldnt count the sorc's shield, you wont be using it as a stamina build. Bone shield is the new option for stamina builds, even though it still scales on health instead of stamina. Same goes for the snare/immobilize: you already get that from bombardment, no need to waste magicka on it.
You should also keep in mind that sorceror is absolutely terrible for stamina builds at lower levels. You'd be better off getting to 20-30 minimum as a magicka build, and then swapping once you have surge unlocked, because prior to that you're going to need to be slotting a lot of lightning skills and not getting much use out of them due to low resource pool.

IMO, nightblade is still the best archer around, though DK and sorc arent all that far behind.

mmmm...there is nothing terrible about Stamina Sorc at low levels, andI don't recommend doing magicka till 30s then swapping....You absolutely don't need Surge to level a Stamina Sorc

The only thing required to level as a Stamina User in general is Brawler...Once you have it you'll have zero trouble leveling..and its the first ability in the two handed tree...so yea...

Duiwel · June 2016

Is this even a question?

NB OP look at my sig and think for yourself where my bias lies

Toast_STS · June 2016

Dont forget Dk has 40% heavy attack damage with igneous weapons. It's a pretty potent buff

Brrrofski · June 2016

tony.augeb14_ESO wrote: »

Dont forget Dk has 40% heavy attack damage with igneous weapons. It's a pretty potent buff

It isn't the morph thay go es you major brutality though unfortunately.

Toc de Malsvi · June 2016

For non trial, non pvp, go with either DK or Sorc. That said the choice becomes do you want better survivability or more mobility and damage?

By buffing yourself with Hardened Armor you will gain Major Ward/Resolve but also 12% more healing taken through Draconic passives, Igneous Shield before Rally/Vigor will buff that by another 25%. Then using an ULT like Corrosive Armor to return resources and heal you will render yourself neigh unkillable.

On the other hand Sorc's can streak here and there for extra mobility on top of the bow dodge roll and Minor Expedition from Hurricane. Sorc's 8% more stamina, 5% more physical damage, 12% ultimate cost reduction, and Implosion scaling with physical damage will put your total damage output from ranged higher than you could get it as a DK. Passive healing through crit's means less time playing defense and more time putting out damage.

Both can get Major Brutality from class lines however, it is generally best served to get it from Rally due to the effectiveness of Rally's heal.

Toc de Malsvi · June 2016

NB's have great utility and recovery, and getting Minor Berserk and extra Crit Damage from ranged is huge for a bow dps build. However they are a bit more squishy than DK's and slightly less mobile than Sorc's which makes them generally harder for solo pve content at least as far as bow's are concerned.

Xvorg · June 2016

How about an arcane archer with Pelinnals and dreugh king slayer? At least you won't need surge

Autolycus · June 2016

I could write a novel on this topic, but you emphasized solo pve numerous times. If this is genuinely the case, then it truly does not matter which one you choose. Every single one of these classes is viable in solo pve, and every one of them is uniquely capable of surviving and dealing modest (at least) damage in all of the content you specified. I strongly recommend basing your decision on which class is most appealing and enjoyable to you, because the approach you're taking is going to net recommendations from the community that will steer you into the "best" and most "optimized" builds. That's not what you say you're looking for.

Nightblades are the most versatile.
Dragonknights have the highest pure damage potential.
Sorcerors have the best self-healing potential and the highest potential WD.

hrothbern · June 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

I could write a novel on this topic, but you emphasized solo pve numerous times. If this is genuinely the case, then it truly does not matter which one you choose. Every single one of these classes is viable in solo pve, and every one of them is uniquely capable of surviving and dealing modest (at least) damage in all of the content you specified. I strongly recommend basing your decision on which class is most appealing and enjoyable to you, because the approach you're taking is going to net recommendations from the community that will steer you into the "best" and most "optimized" builds. That's not what you say you're looking for.

Nightblades are the most versatile.
Dragonknights have the highest pure damage potential.
Sorcerors have the best self-healing potential and the highest potential WD.

@Autolycus ,
and what would be your summary for PVP ?

deximasb14_ESO · June 2016

Sorc has the clan that's great for solo bow play I use it on my stam sorc when I get bored and want to just do something different. Now it's damage is garbage but it holds things attention also sorc has the highest weapon dmg in the game. So if your using mostly wep I would go with a orc sorc

MaxwellC · June 2016

@Hauztein
You can't be serious if you're actually counting the most horrible skill any stamina user would use in PvP or PvE. Dragons blood and it's morph are absolutely horrible, so horrible you'd avoid it with a passion. I'm sorry healing 16.5% or something like that in PvP is actually viable let alone it only heals you based off of the health missing like seriously lol...

Autolycus · June 2016

hrothbern wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

I could write a novel on this topic, but you emphasized solo pve numerous times. If this is genuinely the case, then it truly does not matter which one you choose. Every single one of these classes is viable in solo pve, and every one of them is uniquely capable of surviving and dealing modest (at least) damage in all of the content you specified. I strongly recommend basing your decision on which class is most appealing and enjoyable to you, because the approach you're taking is going to net recommendations from the community that will steer you into the "best" and most "optimized" builds. That's not what you say you're looking for.

Nightblades are the most versatile.
Dragonknights have the highest pure damage potential.
Sorcerors have the best self-healing potential and the highest potential WD.

@Autolycus ,
and what would be your summary for PVP ?

PvP is far more complicated than solo pve content, and to do justice to any of the classes would require a full-length post. I wouldn't want to derail the OP's thread, since this is specifically about choosing a character for solo pve.

Not that I did any justice to the classes in this summary either, but in this context, it's more important to consider which class the OP enjoys most.

Toc de Malsvi · June 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

Nightblades are the most versatile.

Agree. I would argue hardest for unskilled players to play at least for bow builds.

Autolycus wrote: »

Dragonknights have the highest pure damage potential.

Not unless you want to play melee and he titled the thread "...: Archer"

Autolycus wrote: »

Sorcerors have the best self-healing potential...

This is quite arguable, DK's can easily get a 45% increase to healing output from class passives, 25% Major Mending, 12% from Burning Heart, and 8% from Minor Vitality. Does a 45% increase in healing potential compare with Crit Surge? I can't say for sure but I'm definitely sure its debatable.

Autolycus wrote: »

Sorcerors have.....the highest potential WD.

Not true anymore, Fighters Guild passives give 3% per slotted FG ability, slotting all 5 FG abilities including Flawless Dawnbreaker net's a 20% increase, that would leave 1 slot for a Sorc's 2% increase from Sorc passives, DK's get 5% more from Minor Brutality. Given Major Brutality from somewhere outside of the class Templar's are now the highest WD potential.

Toc de Malsvi · June 2016

DK's don't get 5% more to all physical damage dealt, nor do they get 8% more stamina, nor do they get additional execute support from Implosion now scaling with physical, nor do they get 12% ultimate cost reduction. Which is why I recommended Sorc for mobility and damage and DK for survivability.

Toc de Malsvi · June 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

I could write a novel on this topic, but you emphasized solo pve numerous times. If this is genuinely the case, then it truly does not matter which one you choose. Every single one of these classes is viable in solo pve, and every one of them is uniquely capable of surviving and dealing modest (at least) damage in all of the content you specified. I strongly recommend basing your decision on which class is most appealing and enjoyable to you, because the approach you're taking is going to net recommendations from the community that will steer you into the "best" and most "optimized" builds. That's not what you say you're looking for.

Nightblades are the most versatile.
Dragonknights have the highest pure damage potential.
Sorcerors have the best self-healing potential and the highest potential WD.

@Autolycus ,
and what would be your summary for PVP ?

PvP is far more complicated than solo pve content, and to do justice to any of the classes would require a full-length post. I wouldn't want to derail the OP's thread, since this is specifically about choosing a character for solo pve.

Not that I did any justice to the classes in this summary either, but in this context, it's more important to consider which class the OP enjoys most.

Agree.

Autolycus · June 2016

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Nightblades are the most versatile.

Agree. I would argue hardest for unskilled players to play at least for bow builds.

Autolycus wrote: »

Dragonknights have the highest pure damage potential.

Not unless you want to play melee and he titled the thread "...: Archer"

Autolycus wrote: »

Sorcerors have the best self-healing potential...

This is quite arguable, DK's can easily get a 45% increase to healing output from class passives, 25% Major Mending, 12% from Burning Heart, and 8% from Minor Vitality. Does a 45% increase in healing potential compare with Crit Surge? I can't say for sure but I'm definitely sure its debatable.

Autolycus wrote: »

Sorcerors have.....the highest potential WD.

Not true anymore, Fighters Guild passives give 3% per slotted FG ability, slotting all 5 FG abilities including Flawless Dawnbreaker net's a 20% increase, that would leave 1 slot for a Sorc's 2% increase from Sorc passives, DK's get 5% more from Minor Brutality. Given Major Brutality from somewhere outside of the class Templar's are now the highest WD potential.

Most of this varies with context, even the part about DK archers with highest pure damage potential. We're not accounting for a lot of things here. In many cases, it will top that of a NB or Sorc archer. The same is true for the WD stat for Sorcs: it varies.

As for the Sorc healing, with endgame stats, Crit Surge is very close to being a guaranteed 3k heal per second now. My tooltip values when I'm completely unbuffed are just under 2900, and with an 87% crit chance and multiple attacks hitting each second... you see where I'm going. I haven't personally compared this to a stam dk buffed with vitality and mending, so it could be a pretty close match-up. I still lean towards Sorcs because they have access to heals other than vigor and rally, so they also have those at their disposal in addition to the 3k/s, whereas a DK is limited to just those.

Ultimately, though, what matters here is that the OP picks one that is most enjoyable and best suits their playstyle. Any one of these is a perfectly fine choice for the preferred content.