Did they fix the Summon pets?

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · June 2016

Since, I can't do a thing without them, being a Summoner...
Quite annoying.

STEVIL · June 2016

Pets never left so no problem.

ParaNostram · June 2016

I've managed to make a pet build work for PvP. I kill enemy players like they were trash mobs.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · June 2016

No problem?
Mine get wiped in seconds, I am CP194, mobs CP160 (or so they are said to be), and two mobs my pets cannot handle anymore.
With three, I need to be cautious, or I die.
And I am not mentioning bosses.

Before, those very same mobs could be dealt with, up to 6 of them simultaneous.
World Bossed my level could be solo'ed by me, using wits.

So don't tell me they are fine.

phaneub17_ESO · June 2016

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

No problem?
Mine get wiped in seconds, I am CP194, mobs CP160 (or so they are said to be), and two mobs my pets cannot handle anymore.
With three, I need to be cautious, or I die.
And I am not mentioning bosses.

Before, those very same mobs could be dealt with, up to 6 of them simultaneous.
World Bossed my level could be solo'ed by me, using wits.

So don't tell me they are fine.

While they are the same mobs in name only, their stats took a large boost from Gold zones previous VR6 - VR10, and VR14 in Craglorn; they are now all equivalent to VR16. Silver zones are basically VR1 - VR15, if you want a fair comparison you should fight mobs that are 60 - 100 CP and 140 CP.

Ch4mpTW · June 2016

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

No problem?
Mine get wiped in seconds, I am CP194, mobs CP160 (or so they are said to be), and two mobs my pets cannot handle anymore.
With three, I need to be cautious, or I die.
And I am not mentioning bosses.

Before, those very same mobs could be dealt with, up to 6 of them simultaneous.
World Bossed my level could be solo'ed by me, using wits.

So don't tell me they are fine.

Hm... What exactly are you doing differently, compared to previously? I've done VMA both post-DB and pre-DB with pets, and never really struggle (unless things go left and there's things taking place that I can't control).

ADarklore · June 2016

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

No problem?
Mine get wiped in seconds, I am CP194, mobs CP160 (or so they are said to be), and two mobs my pets cannot handle anymore.
With three, I need to be cautious, or I die.
And I am not mentioning bosses.

Before, those very same mobs could be dealt with, up to 6 of them simultaneous.
World Bossed my level could be solo'ed by me, using wits.

So don't tell me they are fine.

Did you upgrade all your gear to CP160?

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · June 2016

@Ch4mpTW Nothing, doing the exact same thing, same outfit, same everything.
But I cannot compete with the game anymore, as is.
Mobs I wiped afore with sometimes 6 at me, now kill me when with three, if I am not careful.

Makes no sense.

@phaneub17_ESO And I am 194, your point being?
They are still my level, no, they are UNDER my level, and they use me as a fly swapper.

ADarklore · June 2016

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

@Ch4mpTW Nothing, doing the exact same thing, same outfit, same everything.
But I cannot compete with the game anymore, as is.
Mobs I wiped afore with sometimes 6 at me, now kill me when with three, if I am not careful.

Makes no sense.

I believe pets scale based upon player stats, so if you haven't upgraded your gear to CP160 and are facing CP160 enemies, then this is the problem. Technically you could go CP150 gear (less mats) and be OK, although I'd go for CP160 weapons.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · June 2016

Well, I am in CP10 gear, and no cash to buy an upgrade since the mat prices swing the pan out.
I ordered an outfit V160, but I can't pay for it, as the market is at the moment.

But I did had this very same outfit before the DB release as well, and I had no problem.

ADarklore · June 2016

OP... here is what I think you're missing... Gold zone was VR6-VR10... which was equivalent to CP60-CP100. However, now the ENTIRE Gold zone is CP160... so that's a HUGE leap in levels and exactly why these monsters are now so much more potent.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · June 2016

But I am not speaking of gold?
I'm questing... I WAS questing in PvE.

I gave up on dungeons, since I simply could not get in.

This is happening on the PvE fields.

I'm doing that John Cleese questline, that almanac.

STEVIL · June 2016

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

But I am not speaking of gold?
I'm questing... I WAS questing in PvE.

I gave up on dungeons, since I simply could not get in.

This is happening on the PvE fields.

I'm doing that John Cleese questline, that almanac.

Ok, so, let me say this.

With what you have provided us we have almost no tools to diagnose your problems reliable be cause we are guessing on a lot.

So what we know is PETS got buffed, including protections against one shot., some aoe mitigation etc. Pets themselves did not get weaker.

However, shields got shorter, including the ones covering pets, si if a sorc play isn't keeping shield up, could be bad for pets.

Also, if you buy the vr level = 10cp then all silver Caldwell and gold Caldwell got tougher. First silver used to be VR1 now it's cp40. Last silver was vr5 now it's cp150.

Also, all cp were reset to ZERO and it seems quite a few folks did not see that. If you didn't allocate those back, your overall power is lower than expected.

Also you should have gotten a chunk of attribute points. Did you allocate those?

Your gear if not at cp150 to. 160, it's understandable thing got tougher. This is esp true for your pets I suppose who need your magic to stay up.

I have run single pet mag sorc in Wrothgar and gold rift questing and delves as well as HEWS Bane and gold Coast and I have not noticed a pet drop even among the ones promoted by DB. Also running a flagging stam sorc with clan fear at bronze (to level the line, not so much relying on clanfear.) Again, no noticeable drop in pets.

So, have to say that there was no organic game-side lowering to PETS that explains what you describe. However, there are any number of related changes and allocation issues that can explain lower performance.

We just need more specific info on your character, atts, skills, setS and general play progressions/tactics to figures out what is happening.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · June 2016

@STEVIL https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/269421/serious-question-main-char-what-to-do#latest

This should have all the info you need, about my character.

Equipment was, and I was very wrong there, CP80 rather.

If you need more info, do ask.

EDIT: I set my CP up, spent it all, to no avail.
Spell erosion and the other one, do not do a single thing when using Accelerated Drain, though this is a magical attack.
Neither does Sneak Attack work with Accelerated Drain, which, by the fact all other magical attacks DO use this, it should be as well with Acellerated drain, or so logics states as much.

Also spent the extra level-ups.

Transairion · June 2016

From the sound it of, it's very likely the main problem you're having is that Cadwell's Silver and Gold has it's mobs massively buffed compared to be before: previously Silver mobs basically went up to something like VR6-8 at best (CP60-80 now), and Gold mobs were VR9 to 16 or such.

But now ALL gold mobs are CP160, or the max level possible, and most of the Silver mobs are way up there (up to CP150, or the old VR15). If your gear is still suited for the former levels, IE CP80 or such, you'll probably struggle until you upgrade if you're trying to do the same stuff as before against now-higher mobs.

As that one other Summoner in existence (probably), I haven't noticed much difference in difficulty, but I was also max level and had max-level gear made before the VR - CP switch: but ONLY VR16/CP160 had a massive increase in material prices, you can still get VR15/CP150 gear for really cheap! Reportedly, CP160 gear takes hundreds of materials while CP150 still only takes a few dozen, so if you need a quick (if temporary) upgrade I'd recommend that.

If you're using Conjured Ward (which you should!), I'd also recommend getting out of the Hardened Ward morph if you're using that: it only lasts 6 seconds now, and your pets benefit from Wards more than you do so it'll be timing out constantly rather than being broken. Empowered Ward lasts 10 seconds, so it's probably a lot better (assuming you don't have massive issues surviving with a slightly weaker shield), and it also provides nifty magicka regen bonus while active. Yay!

But yeah, as far as the idea of "summons being broken" via DB patch it's not really true, they're same as they've always been. Still work fine for me and all I really did was swap Conjured Ward morphs when the duration nerf hit. I'm going around soloing most all of Craglorn, and that's a place that wasn't intended to be solo'd.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · June 2016

@Transairion Conjured Ward?
Not a clue what that is, I used only my summons and my Accelerated Drain.

But, where the content is buffed, my pets are not, which is the whole of the problem: they can no longer compete with the mobs, thus leaving me dead, basically.

phaneub17_ESO · June 2016

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

@Ch4mpTW Nothing, doing the exact same thing, same outfit, same everything.
But I cannot compete with the game anymore, as is.
Mobs I wiped afore with sometimes 6 at me, now kill me when with three, if I am not careful.

Makes no sense.

@phaneub17_ESO And I am 194, your point being?
They are still my level, no, they are UNDER my level, and they use me as a fly swapper.

Your CP makes no difference as Pets stats stop scaling with you at 160 CP. The only thing that goes up after that point is their damage as you get more CP spent into the Mage line by increasing your max magicka, otherwise they don't get anymore physical resists, spell resists, or health.

Edit: You know what, I need to find a Sorc with 10 CP and look at their pet's health, it may not even scale up to 160 CP as it used to do up to VR16 now that we no longer grow in the same way.

Pet health at 160+ CP are:
Volatile Familiar IV = 16,683 HP
Unstable Clannfear IV = 20,656 HP
Twilight Matriarch IV = 7,945 HP
Twilight Tormentor IV = 7,945 HP

If a Sorc at fresh level 50 with just 10 CP has pet health with the same numbers, then pets would actually stop growing at level 50.

STEVIL · June 2016

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

@STEVIL https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/269421/serious-question-main-char-what-to-do#latest

This should have all the info you need, about my character.

Equipment was, and I was very wrong there, CP80 rather.

If you need more info, do ask.

EDIT: I set my CP up, spent it all, to no avail.
Spell erosion and the other one, do not do a single thing when using Accelerated Drain, though this is a magical attack.
Neither does Sneak Attack work with Accelerated Drain, which, by the fact all other magical attacks DO use this, it should be as well with Acellerated drain, or so logics states as much.

Also spent the extra level-ups.

Thanks.
It's a very intriguing approach. Kudos for that.

So, big question: which pets do you summon?
Volatile or Unstable clanfear (one heals based on sorc health other booms)
Matriarch or tormentor twilight( one heals based on sorc magics other attacks harder)

Good news is DRAIN now heals more.

You on PC na, PC eu. Xbox or what?

BTW have you looked at champ pts into THAUMATURGE? Technically Drain is a DOT so that should apply.

Thx

phairdon · June 2016

My sorcs run pet builds in pve and they rarely die. Two things I do. Use the sorc shield (conjured ward as an example), you can also use a restoration staff (steadfast ward, another shield). While your pets are attacking the mobs, keep the shields up & attack the mobs with the restoration staff.
Even if your pets die, its not difficult to respawn them.

STEVIL · June 2016

One more rhing, ok, two...

Do you have/use the vamp bat swarm ultimate or one of its morphs?

What stage 1-4 of vamp do you norm

Flaminir · June 2016

fyi... Sorc pets scale off one thing only... max magicka!

They sit totally outside of the champion system... so nothing in the CP tree's will affect pets!

& yes I know that makes no sense and makes the pets artificially weak...

The only way to make the pets hit any harder is to increase your characters max magicka.... nothing you can do about their health I'm afraid... that's fixed.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · June 2016

Thank you for the replies, as to answer them:
@phaneub17_ESO The enemy hits with up to 2K damage/attack, where my character is located.
If one enemy goes for my Twilight... 2/3 hits and byebye Twilight.
The damage dealt by the twilight became utterly insufficient compared to before.
Which is not quite true, the thing is the mobs were boosted, the pets remained their same everything, making it look and feel like they now under-perform.
But, again, that's the whole issue.

As for CP making no difference, it did not before either, and I am OK with that.
The fact that Accelerated Drain is untouched however, I do not agree with.
If I cast a spell, CP DOES affect the spell.
In fact, there, as far as I know, is no mage skill unaffected by CP.
EXCEPT for Accelerated Drain.
Not even sneak Attack makes a difference, why not?
It is a magical attack, it should like with other combat spells, affect the target.
Which is what I addressed here as well.

Now, and this said it all, basically, IF a pet stops growing at level50, but the mobs DO grow up to CP160...
This is simply not doable.
The math here wuld be simple, if that is the case.
If...

STEVIL wrote: »

It's a very intriguing approach. Kudos for that.

Thank you, it's a pure RP build, it worked nicely, until DB.
Something went very wrong there, for my character.
I made and played the character as he would be in Tamriel, a summoner that became a vampire, and using that to his advantage.
I stayed away from other skills since I had no use for these.
Quite strange, i read several PvE builds, all DEMANDING this and that in order to survive as a first character, but my simple fella did the job, and well too.

As to your question: both.
I had them both, always, from the time I could cast them.
Volatile and Tormentor, since i NEVER had an issue with health.
Could not, i kept healing up with my Drain.
But with these improved mobs, that too is down the, heh, DRAIN!
Even though Drain should be better, I absolutely do not notice this, au contraire.

PC EU.

No points in Thaumaturgy.
Now, before you go on, i DID test this out, I tested a lot out actually, but NOTHING!!! has effect on either the pets, nor Accelerated Drain.
As to why?
Not a bloody clue.

@phairdon

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

@Transairion Conjured Ward?
Not a clue what that is, I used only my summons and my Accelerated Drain.

@STEVIL Bat Swarm, unused.
Had no need for it.
Stage 1 until lvl 45'ish, then Stage 4, but i honestly notice any difference, save for the fire resist now being low.
Going back to Stage 1, permanatly, i think...
IF I can sort this character out that is.

@Flaminir Yes, so i am told.
I was in the works of getting a complete new outfit, as per @Nestor in the link provided with my build.
BUUUUT... i can't pay for that, since the market prices went berzerk.
Now, I DO intend to listen to him, but in the meantime, my character that worked PERFECTLY before DB, can't deal with 3 white mobs in The Rift, whereas before DB, he solo'ed World Bosses his level.

STEVIL · June 2016

Stage 1 until lvl 45'ish, then Stage 4, but i honestly notice any difference, save for the fire resist now being low."

Under DB the vampire passives require lower stage and you only get them all at stage 4.

The diff between DRAIN heal and pet heals is the clanfear and matriarch heals affect you and pets.
If you are not shielding them you ought to consider ways to heal them or get used to recasting.

From a RP perspective and a game perspective, i would think about the Daedric Prey morph of Daedric curse. I see it as the vamp "marking" the prey. It last for six seconds, damages the target and during those six secs the pets get like 55% extra damage against them.

The Bat ulti are not only effective but cool looking, imo.

kylewwefan · June 2016

Hey samurai, I was reading about the pet build named "daedric shepard". The guy uses a resto staff to put wards, regeneration, combat prayer on his pets. It might help a little. I've just recently started playing a Sorc and I was thinking I might go the pet build route with him also.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · June 2016

Hmmm, going to check into that, for a new character, thank you very much!

As for my Khajiit, I want, if possible, to keep him "as pure as possible" for RP reasons.
So, I'm going to try with the ideas of @Nestor, and HOPEFULLY this will work out.
If not... Imma delete him...
And start over, but with a completely new build, maybe the one you suggested.

Main reason for the "simplicity" of that build is: once I get to use more than three keyboard buttons... I go crazy.
I start bashing the keys, HOPING something good will come out of it, but it usually ends up in a broken keyboard.

I had a few hundred over my gaming decades, and i am NOT kidding.
The only one that withstood the massacre was a 2.5 kilo/5.5 pound IBM keyboard of 1980'ish, had 24 function buttons, too...
But it shorted out.

Acrolas · June 2016

I just want pets to stealth in PVP.

That would be nice.

Hi bad guy, I take it you've already met Twilight Sparkle. You can't miss her.

Waffennacht · June 2016

Pet Abilities Scale with CP.

Use Familiar's ability with No CP in thaumaturge and then use his ability with 70 points in and watch his ability deal more damage! It's a DoT.

Edit: Put points into Bless CP and watch Matriarch's heals increase

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · June 2016

Oh, I did not see ANY change at all.

I'm going to test this later on, again, I cannot imagine to have been so blind!!!

Yet another 3K gold down the DRAIN... bah.

Waffennacht · June 2016

kylewwefan wrote: »

Hey samurai, I was reading about the pet build named "daedric shepard". The guy uses a resto staff to put wards, regeneration, combat prayer on his pets. It might help a little. I've just recently started playing a Sorc and I was thinking I might go the pet build route with him also.

Hey that's me! That's my oldest build you're referring to. That was a build previous to MANY updates lol.

With updated pets, ability selections etc I dropped resto staff, dropped Clannfear for familiar etc...

My sig has the TG updated version. Once db drops for console ill post the most up to date version yet!

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · June 2016

kylewwefan wrote: »

Hey samurai, I was reading about the pet build named "daedric shepard". The guy uses a resto staff to put wards, regeneration, combat prayer on his pets. It might help a little. I've just recently started playing a Sorc and I was thinking I might go the pet build route with him also.

I just read up on the Daedric Shepard, interesting, but 2 things:
1) The usagse of a TON of skills, meaning buttons on my keyboard...
2) What is a DW? lol...

I do not get all the abbreviations I come by in ESO, mainly because I keep things as simple as possible, skill and class wise.

Waffennacht · June 2016

There all updated! Fyi no more resto staff

But monster sets!

DW = dual wield, two swords for added spell damage.