If and when Race Change Comes:

DocFrost72 · June 2016

Hey all!

After reading the latest datamine, it would appear ZOS is tinkering with the idea of the barbershop/racechange!

While data mining is not necessarily confirmed, it does mean that they are at the least considering developing these datamine entries. I have a single request for ZOS: Make 'Race change' only affect passives for races and not appearence, or give an option between the two.

The big reason behind racial changes (but not the only one) is to gain stats that are conducive to one's build. For example, as an Argonian stamina templar, I may long to have the racial passives of an orc, or an imperial, or a sleek khajiit. Their passives are more beneficial to damage dealer builds on the whole.

BUT, we cannot forget about RPers. One concern I instantly had when I saw "race change" was- Cool! But...will my imperial suddenly become an Orc? How will I explain that in RP?

To be clear; I would not stop race change for the above, but I would love to see options that help both sides. Perhaps if we allow individuals to change their race if so desired (some RPs may actually use this feature) alongside racial passive change (which helps us explore new options as a gold and crown sink), I think we can satisfy most everyone.

As to the lore aspect of this, that is where the passives change comes in. Not every orc is a great warrior, not every altmer is a mage, and certainly not every bosmer is an archer. Some folks from all races stick out as outliers, but they may have natural talent. For a perfect example, look at Farengar Secret Fire from TESV. He is a nord, but is an accomplished mage. Shalidor, also a nord, was the leader of the mage's guild! And an Argonian led the fighter's guild. Probably because of her OP swim speed, but still.

TLDR- As a fan of options, I'd like to see racial passives change alongside or replacing Race Change. Thoughts?

Jaywics · June 2016

Soon™

KingWhyteboi · June 2016

If they do this where I can pick passives I will make a argonian asap I always wanted one but them passives no Bueno

WardenofArcherus · June 2016

But my Male Nord Sorcerer wants to be a Female Altmer...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFBOQzSk14c

Don't you oppress her! :'(

TheShadowScout · June 2016

Every lorelover would HATE passive change. because we grew to love the TES lore where redguards are better at swordplay, and altmer better at spell slinging, nord are tough and bosmer sneaky hunters, bretons magically adept and argonians, uhm... anphibeous?

If they added that kinds stuff, they really should first remove the "Elder Scrolls" from their game title...

Clerics1985 · June 2016

KingWhyteboi wrote: »

If they do this where I can pick passives I will make a argonian asap I always wanted one but them passives no Bueno

this would get rid of the Need to be Entirely High Elf/Redguard in PVP in general

but on the other hand then what reason do we have picking a race in the first place? just because of the way he looks.

In that case don't stop there, just take all the available passives and allow us to Pick and Choose the 6 or 7 between them that fit our needs the most?

idk · June 2016

Zos has mentioned before that racial passives changes would not be an appearance change so a stam argonian that changes to the redguard passives would retain its tail. They also said we would not be able to pick and choose passives, that they will come in sets as they do now.

It may be that change in appearance would cost a separate sum of crowns that change of passives.

Zos has also tended to change design from what they originally envisioned. After all, ESO has a full feature UI in alpha.

Clerics1985 · June 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Zos has mentioned before that racial passives changes would not be an appearance change so a stam argonian that changes to the redguard passives would retain its tail. They also said we would not be able to pick and choose passives, that they will come in sets as they do now.

It may be that change in appearance would cost a separate sum of crowns that change of passives.

Zos has also tended to change design from what they originally envisioned. After all, ESO has a full feature UI in alpha.

If it happens I will gladly dawn my Dark elf Redguard for years to come!

AugustoCP · June 2016

Oh Divines, PLEASE YES. I want to be a Breton for preference reasons, why must my play style suffer for this? Please, PLEASE let us choose a set of racial passives without having to choose the race they belong to. If you want to make money out of it, which you absolutely have the right to, make it require the Any Race, Any Alliance option, and charge Crowns for applying it to existing characters. There, everyone is happy.

Silver_Strider · June 2016

As long as I get to stay an Argonian as my race, I'd be alright for racial passive selection. I would prefer if they'd just balanced the racials or flat out removed them but allowing racial passive changes would be an acceptable alternative.

mistermutiny89 · June 2016

I agree completely.

Unfortunately most decent changes that come to ESO come either half done or with a nasty caveat. We shall see!

Birdovic · June 2016

I think they will just allow us to change between "Passive Sets":

Lets say Im a Redguard and I want to become a Bosmer because of the Passives ONLY.

Now I decide to buy a Racechange.
The Racechange simply lets me chose between "Passive Sets"

Bosmer Passive Set:
Y'ffres Endurance
Resist Affliction
Stealthy

Orsimer Passive Set:
Brawny
Robust
Swift

Etc.

DocFrost72 · June 2016

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

I think they will just allow us to change between "Passive Sets":

Lets say Im a Redguard and I want to become a Bosmer because of the Passives ONLY.

Now I decide to buy a Racechange.
The Racechange simply lets me chose between "Passive Sets"

Bosmer Passive Set:
Y'ffres Endurance
Resist Affliction
Stealthy

Orsimer Passive Set:
Brawny
Robust
Swift

Etc.

I suppose I could have clarified more, this what I was asking fir. Basically, have race change be an optional appearance change. As in choosing to make my "race" altmer, but appearing as an imperial still (as an example).

I did not intend to send the message of cherry picking passives from multiple races. While that sounds cool, it'll probably be a bit OP.

ChildOfLight · June 2016

I know that the "no lorebreaking stuffs" train has passed already. But passives separated from race appearance is too much. Too much.
Choices matter.

Birdovic · June 2016

So there will be

A real Race Change (appearance+Passives) 2.5k crowns
A Skill Change (only passives) 1.5k crowns
A Racechange (only appearance) 1.5k crowns

@ChildOfLight

While I want the game to stay true to lore, I dont see any reason this could affect someone.
I mean, nobody can see what passives you have, for RP'ing reasons, this is absolutely not relevant, and most people outside of RP wont care for the lore so much anyway, as long as they cant visually see something being off.

Junkogen · June 2016

Being able to change just the racial passives is too good to be true. What stands in the way is the legion of RPers and bitter purists who insist on foisting their beliefs on everyone else. Let the masses have freedom of choice! Besides, I disagree about the lore aspects of some of the racial passives choices the devs made. The Argonian passives are way out of whack from previous titles.

In any event, I think they will implement race change as a full conversion, meaning you change appearance, as well. If this is the case, I hope they offer name change with the package. Some of us chose our names based on race. They would be silly on another race.

nine9six · June 2016

I think all of this is stupid, but that's just me.

You picked a race. Play it. Want another? Make it.

Mix and match passives to visuals? Huh?

Unless I'm missing something?

DocFrost72 · June 2016

nine9six wrote: »

I think all of this is stupid, but that's just me.

You picked a race. Play it. Want another? Make it.

Mix and match passives to visuals? Huh?

Unless I'm missing something?

You are missing a key component. Of course, it may seem minor to you, but it is NOT to me or others. I wanted to make a Breton because they have an incredible lore background, a diverse history, and several cool quirks I identify well with.

I also like the way a stamina templar plays. Their shining spears of justice and indomitable force of will is not only a lore draw, but I LOVE the way my stamplar wrecks face. He mows down enemies like it is nothing, and the abilities are intuitive for me.

Here comes the dilema. Breton are a poor race choice for this setup.

While it is true I could have one toon for RP and one for PvE, I don't think that is a fair tradeoff. Why shouldn't I proudly display a storm proof title? Why shouldn't I be able to wear all the amazing gear I found, such as alkosh or kena? Why should I be pigeon holed into RP or PvE when neither conflicts with each other in any way but a pointless game mechanic designed without much consideration for lore (anyone remember Argonians being tanky, or was I alone in remembering their guerilla tactics?).

Now feel free to disagree or claim that racial aren't that much of a difference, because you are right they are only a small part of any build.

But I will remain upset my desire to RP in an MMORPG could potentially gimp me on ANY amount of power.

Gidorick · June 2016

I would prefer something more integrated into the story of your character than just outright changing your appearance... like my mixed race offspring concept:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/153977/eso-character-offspring-hybrid-races-concept/p1

This would allow a player to "mix and match" races but wouldn't just be giving the player the option... they have to work for it.

WardenofArcherus · June 2016

@Gidorick

Perhaps a questline to create a potion, or find a relic that changes your physical/core being?

Gidorick · June 2016

WardenofArcherus wrote: »

@Gidorick

Perhaps a questline to create a potion, or find a relic that changes your physical/core being?

Heheh. Kind of like that guy that turns you into a monkey @WardenofArcherus .

WardenofArcherus · June 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

WardenofArcherus wrote: »

@Gidorick

Perhaps a questline to create a potion, or find a relic that changes your physical/core being?

Heheh. Kind of like that guy that turns you into a monkey @WardenofArcherus .

Careful, ZOS might expand on that sentence and create "racial change exclusives" like the Tang Mo.

Another concept I had rolling around is the opportunity to formulate another body due to our state of flux. As a Vestige, we could technically reform in Oblivion through the Azure Plasm.

Gidorick · June 2016

WardenofArcherus wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

WardenofArcherus wrote: »

@Gidorick

Perhaps a questline to create a potion, or find a relic that changes your physical/core being?

Heheh. Kind of like that guy that turns you into a monkey @WardenofArcherus .

Careful, ZOS might expand on that sentence and create "racial change exclusives" like the Tang Mo.

Another concept I had rolling around is the opportunity to formulate another body due to our state of flux. As a Vestige, we could technically reform in Oblivion through the Azure Plasm.

I don't think our form is susceptible to change. We're not shape shifters, we're just not bound for the dreamsleeve when we die like other mortals. Daedra can't be any daedra they want to be. They are what they are. Same with us.

It's funny that you mention this. I was thinking the other day that I would have preferred it if the vestige lore was such that a vestige is formless... faceless... kind of like...

Then, through coldharbor we are introduced to the different races and upon leaving Coldharbour we are given the choice of what race we are. This kind of concept would totally support the idea of being able to change forms.

Iluvrien · June 2016

Much as I hate the idea of race change, I am getting too tired of the continuous threads complaining about it to hold on to my vociferous opposition to it for much longer.

I suggest another option. If you choose to change your race then a phase flag is set on that character, and you get placed in a special phase with the rest of the "numbers first, **** the lore" people.

To be frank, if you will change your race purely because of the passives? I don't want to encounter you. We aren't playing the same game.

WardenofArcherus · June 2016

@Gidorick

Upon further research, the "lore" would have us believe that our particular vestige qualities are even less prone to flaws during the absorbtion of the Azure Plasm (to the point that we are formed almost instantaneously). That kind of tosses my concept of the use of an external force to alter the process' results.

While the lore is malleable, this path may be a bit out of ZOS plans. At least we have precedent for race changes via potion from one of the Greenshade quests. Perhaps they may follow that route if they decide to provide a quest with the change.

Abeille · June 2016

There is a Dunmer who chages into an Argonian while actually trying to change into a Khajiit in Greenshade. He drinks a potion for that.

So race change is part of the lore, although we have no way of knowing if that was just some kind of illusion or only appearence change, or that Dunmer actually acquired all the characteristics (read: racial passives) that an Argonian have during that short period he was an Argonian.

Me, I prefer to see it as a retcon. If someone who roleplays with me suddenly change races overnight (which I find unlikely to happen, as I don't really see this feature being used by roleplayers), I will see it as a retcon of their character and treat them as if they were always of that race. Unless, of course, they provide an explanation like that Greenshade quest I mentioned and ask me to go with it (like I ask people to imagine that my Altmer has black hair. One day maybe she will...).

Farorin · June 2016

Race change needs to be a total conversion, not a partial one, otherwise it is too Lore breaking.

I also wish it was super expensive to avoid people just adopting FOTM all the damn time.

mtwiggz · June 2016

I'd love to see race changes. I believe with race changes appearance changes should also happen. Though I would enjoy looking like a Bosmer yet have Redgaurd passives, I believe that's a tad out of touch.

As for the RPers? I'm sorry that boat sailed long ago. There is so much broken lore in ESO already. ZoS is going to take full advantage of whatever money they can make off of us.

WardenofArcherus · June 2016

Farorin wrote: »

Race change needs to be a total conversion, not a partial one, otherwise it is too Lore breaking.

I also wish it was super expensive to avoid people just adopting FOTM all the damn time.

I don't see anything wrong with the min/maxers paying ZOS to change their race every month. It sounds like it would be a win/win/win:

Those with the insatiable need to eek out that extra efficiency may do so for a price.
ZOS gets a somewhat stable income. Min/maxing will never depart from MMOs.
With more cash in their pockets, ZOS may delve into creating more content previously un-planned due to their income.

Making race changes too expensive just locks out other players from utilizing it for other purposes (Such as my Sorc who is having a gender/racial-identity crisis...yea, us RPers can get weird from time to time).

Mordiez · June 2016

No matter what anyone says there no good argument against it, lore and roleplaying isn't effected at ALL. you aren't forced to do and and just be cause your in fantasy land that doesn't mean others shouldnt have the option to play as they wish as well.

DocFrost72 · June 2016

Iluvrien wrote: »

Much as I hate the idea of race change, I am getting too tired of the continuous threads complaining about it to hold on to my vociferous opposition to it for much longer.

I suggest another option. If you choose to change your race then a phase flag is set on that character, and you get placed in a special phase with the rest of the "numbers first, **** the lore" people.

To be frank, if you will change your race purely because of the passives? I don't want to encounter you. We aren't playing the same game.

Don't know where the venom came from, but if you're upset that I want to be a Breton and have reasonable stam stats because it is a game, then I don't need to encounter you