DKsUnite wrote: »

yeh the game is all screwed up in favour of DPS. Its mostly because of the CP system. DPS get boosts to dmg and since they also get mega boosts to regen/reduce cost, they can spec even higher into dmg. Tie in the fact that armour/spell res dont mean anything because of how high penetration values and you have what you are experiencing

timidobserver wrote: »

Armor/Spell Resist is not worth a lot due to how easy it is to obtain penetration. Your 30k resistance is really 15-20k against most people. You should look into either a perma block or dodge roll dodge spam build if you want to tank.

But I can't play tank mind you, I can only play stamina nightblade

sirrmattus wrote: »

I've fought 10 minute fights and I've had 10 second fights. It's about your skills & rotation more than your gear.

timidobserver wrote: »

Armor/Spell Resist is not worth a lot due to how easy it is to obtain penetration. Your 30k resistance is really 15-20k against most people. You should look into either a perma block or dodge roll dodge spam build if you want to tank.

arth-grogalith wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

@OP

You want to be a pvp tank? Good good. There's a few things to understand about Tanking in pvp.

1. Resistances are meaningless in current meta. 5k pen from sharpened, 5k from 5 LA, 5k from major breach, CP, and your 30k becomes barely 10k... U might as well be running around naked.

2. Blocking is OP. It's the only thing keeping you alive. It provides *** ton of damage reduction.

3. HA is only good for one thing in pvp. Constitution. Read it. Learn it. Love it.

Why no.3 vangy? Why I'm Glad you asked!

I'm running with 35k resists buffed, 2.5k impen and 33k health. Even for me, drop block = death in about 5-10 seconds (even less if against good players) if I drop block. Tanking groups of players in pvp = perma block. It's the only way unless u want to run a shuffle dodge roll monkey build which isn't really tanking. It's jus LOS and kiting nub cakes. I want to be the manly man sitting in the midst of an enemy Zerg locking them down with talons and be neigh unkillable. Not the monkey rolling around rocks. The thing about block is stam regen becomes O.

Noooo vangy my tank is ruined you say? Nooooo. Don't fret my Friend. We is dk. Wearing heavy Armour. We has earthen heart passive. We has constitution. We run triple block cost redux enchants. We run 15% block cost reduction in cp. We has battle roar. We has defensive stance. We has dk passive that lets us block even more damage. We run 2 piece malebuth or 2 piece engin. We run immovable pots with alchemy 50 so no one can cc us. Combo all the above and you has a man holding block forever no probs.

BUT BUT VANGY I HAS NO DAMAGE? We don't need damage brah. Run 5 fasallas and 5 black rose. Use reverb bash. Use talons. Use stam absorb/diseased weapons. Use Dots. Watch pesky healers run out of their 40k mana pool in barely a minute thanks to ur 80% heal debuffs. Sit in enemy caltrops and watch them suffer. Hold block till they cry cos u barely take 2k damage from their meteor. Watch them have a panic attack cos ur immovable is up seemingly 24/7. In large scale battles run into zergs and lock them down with talons while perma blocking while ur alliance nukes them with siege. Watch the AP roll in cos every zergling tagged u and died.

Tanks are alive and well in pvp. We just don't see too many of them cos people love to follow streamer dodge roll monkey builds and think its the only way to be OP. Don't give up fellow tank. We will rise one day. When zos fixes resistances and penetration. But till that day we will perma block and make zerglings cry.

OP wasn't about tanking zergs.
He was talking about 1v1 or 1vX with a tankier build.
IMHO: Black Rose and Fasalla hit like a soaked spaghetto, and in small scale fights you die in 15-20 seconds (instead of 10-15) because you're unable to apply real pressure on the opponents, and you don't get constitution regen because you don't get hit as often.
You need to combine BR or other with some DPS stuff (agility, for instance) for smaller-scale fights.

Whatever you choose, heavy armour is the hard way.

My two Orcish cents.

arth-grogalith wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

@OP

You want to be a pvp tank? Good good. There's a few things to understand about Tanking in pvp.

1. Resistances are meaningless in current meta. 5k pen from sharpened, 5k from 5 LA, 5k from major breach, CP, and your 30k becomes barely 10k... U might as well be running around naked.

2. Blocking is OP. It's the only thing keeping you alive. It provides *** ton of damage reduction.

3. HA is only good for one thing in pvp. Constitution. Read it. Learn it. Love it.

Why no.3 vangy? Why I'm Glad you asked!

I'm running with 35k resists buffed, 2.5k impen and 33k health. Even for me, drop block = death in about 5-10 seconds (even less if against good players) if I drop block. Tanking groups of players in pvp = perma block. It's the only way unless u want to run a shuffle dodge roll monkey build which isn't really tanking. It's jus LOS and kiting nub cakes. I want to be the manly man sitting in the midst of an enemy Zerg locking them down with talons and be neigh unkillable. Not the monkey rolling around rocks. The thing about block is stam regen becomes O.

Noooo vangy my tank is ruined you say? Nooooo. Don't fret my Friend. We is dk. Wearing heavy Armour. We has earthen heart passive. We has constitution. We run triple block cost redux enchants. We run 15% block cost reduction in cp. We has battle roar. We has defensive stance. We has dk passive that lets us block even more damage. We run 2 piece malebuth or 2 piece engin. We run immovable pots with alchemy 50 so no one can cc us. Combo all the above and you has a man holding block forever no probs.

BUT BUT VANGY I HAS NO DAMAGE? We don't need damage brah. Run 5 fasallas and 5 black rose. Use reverb bash. Use talons. Use stam absorb/diseased weapons. Use Dots. Watch pesky healers run out of their 40k mana pool in barely a minute thanks to ur 80% heal debuffs. Sit in enemy caltrops and watch them suffer. Hold block till they cry cos u barely take 2k damage from their meteor. Watch them have a panic attack cos ur immovable is up seemingly 24/7. In large scale battles run into zergs and lock them down with talons while perma blocking while ur alliance nukes them with siege. Watch the AP roll in cos every zergling tagged u and died.

Tanks are alive and well in pvp. We just don't see too many of them cos people love to follow streamer dodge roll monkey builds and think its the only way to be OP. Don't give up fellow tank. We will rise one day. When zos fixes resistances and penetration. But till that day we will perma block and make zerglings cry.

OP wasn't about tanking zergs.
He was talking about 1v1 or 1vX with a tankier build.
IMHO: Black Rose and Fasalla hit like a soaked spaghetto, and in small scale fights you die in 15-20 seconds (instead of 10-15) because you're unable to apply real pressure on the opponents, and you don't get constitution regen because you don't get hit as often.
You need to combine BR or other with some DPS stuff (agility, for instance) for smaller-scale fights.

Whatever you choose, heavy armour is the hard way.

My two Orcish cents.

remraub16_ESO wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

arth-grogalith wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

@OP

You want to be a pvp tank? Good good. There's a few things to understand about Tanking in pvp.

1. Resistances are meaningless in current meta. 5k pen from sharpened, 5k from 5 LA, 5k from major breach, CP, and your 30k becomes barely 10k... U might as well be running around naked.

2. Blocking is OP. It's the only thing keeping you alive. It provides *** ton of damage reduction.

3. HA is only good for one thing in pvp. Constitution. Read it. Learn it. Love it.

Why no.3 vangy? Why I'm Glad you asked!

I'm running with 35k resists buffed, 2.5k impen and 33k health. Even for me, drop block = death in about 5-10 seconds (even less if against good players) if I drop block. Tanking groups of players in pvp = perma block. It's the only way unless u want to run a shuffle dodge roll monkey build which isn't really tanking. It's jus LOS and kiting nub cakes. I want to be the manly man sitting in the midst of an enemy Zerg locking them down with talons and be neigh unkillable. Not the monkey rolling around rocks. The thing about block is stam regen becomes O.

Noooo vangy my tank is ruined you say? Nooooo. Don't fret my Friend. We is dk. Wearing heavy Armour. We has earthen heart passive. We has constitution. We run triple block cost redux enchants. We run 15% block cost reduction in cp. We has battle roar. We has defensive stance. We has dk passive that lets us block even more damage. We run 2 piece malebuth or 2 piece engin. We run immovable pots with alchemy 50 so no one can cc us. Combo all the above and you has a man holding block forever no probs.

BUT BUT VANGY I HAS NO DAMAGE? We don't need damage brah. Run 5 fasallas and 5 black rose. Use reverb bash. Use talons. Use stam absorb/diseased weapons. Use Dots. Watch pesky healers run out of their 40k mana pool in barely a minute thanks to ur 80% heal debuffs. Sit in enemy caltrops and watch them suffer. Hold block till they cry cos u barely take 2k damage from their meteor. Watch them have a panic attack cos ur immovable is up seemingly 24/7. In large scale battles run into zergs and lock them down with talons while perma blocking while ur alliance nukes them with siege. Watch the AP roll in cos every zergling tagged u and died.

Tanks are alive and well in pvp. We just don't see too many of them cos people love to follow streamer dodge roll monkey builds and think its the only way to be OP. Don't give up fellow tank. We will rise one day. When zos fixes resistances and penetration. But till that day we will perma block and make zerglings cry.

OP wasn't about tanking zergs.
He was talking about 1v1 or 1vX with a tankier build.
IMHO: Black Rose and Fasalla hit like a soaked spaghetto, and in small scale fights you die in 15-20 seconds (instead of 10-15) because you're unable to apply real pressure on the opponents, and you don't get constitution regen because you don't get hit as often.
You need to combine BR or other with some DPS stuff (agility, for instance) for smaller-scale fights.

Whatever you choose, heavy armour is the hard way.

My two Orcish cents.

Oo in small scale I run 5 heavy morkuldin with agility and engin Guardian. If you can't small scale with an SnB stam dk its def an L2P issue. Cos stam dks are ridiculous in 1v1s and small scale fights. Straight up insane tanky with neigh infinite sustain OP. Stam dks are just bad in open world large group pvp.

Sometimes I even stick with my black rose and fasallas for small scale. With wrath and major brutality my weapon power is around 2.8k. Not crazy high like dps toons but more than enough to apply considerable pressure with 80% heal debuff and Dots. Especially since as long as you hold block you are pretty much unkillable with engin/mal giving u some crazy sustain.

Edit: yeah you need vigor op. Without it barely any heals save rally for dk cos dragons blood sucks.

If I block, I have no stamina left after 2 seconds. I don't have block cost reduction on anything (except S/B passive and CP)
And if I block it seems the opponent has infinite amount of resources to just keep spamming what ever attack they like spamming.

I don't think anyone here will be able to teach me what to do with my build, I need someone in-game to SHOW me, and explain what's going on as it is going on. It's very frustrating not knowing what you're doing wrong

Vangy wrote: »

remraub16_ESO wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

arth-grogalith wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

@OP

You want to be a pvp tank? Good good. There's a few things to understand about Tanking in pvp.

1. Resistances are meaningless in current meta. 5k pen from sharpened, 5k from 5 LA, 5k from major breach, CP, and your 30k becomes barely 10k... U might as well be running around naked.

2. Blocking is OP. It's the only thing keeping you alive. It provides *** ton of damage reduction.

3. HA is only good for one thing in pvp. Constitution. Read it. Learn it. Love it.

Why no.3 vangy? Why I'm Glad you asked!

I'm running with 35k resists buffed, 2.5k impen and 33k health. Even for me, drop block = death in about 5-10 seconds (even less if against good players) if I drop block. Tanking groups of players in pvp = perma block. It's the only way unless u want to run a shuffle dodge roll monkey build which isn't really tanking. It's jus LOS and kiting nub cakes. I want to be the manly man sitting in the midst of an enemy Zerg locking them down with talons and be neigh unkillable. Not the monkey rolling around rocks. The thing about block is stam regen becomes O.

Noooo vangy my tank is ruined you say? Nooooo. Don't fret my Friend. We is dk. Wearing heavy Armour. We has earthen heart passive. We has constitution. We run triple block cost redux enchants. We run 15% block cost reduction in cp. We has battle roar. We has defensive stance. We has dk passive that lets us block even more damage. We run 2 piece malebuth or 2 piece engin. We run immovable pots with alchemy 50 so no one can cc us. Combo all the above and you has a man holding block forever no probs.

BUT BUT VANGY I HAS NO DAMAGE? We don't need damage brah. Run 5 fasallas and 5 black rose. Use reverb bash. Use talons. Use stam absorb/diseased weapons. Use Dots. Watch pesky healers run out of their 40k mana pool in barely a minute thanks to ur 80% heal debuffs. Sit in enemy caltrops and watch them suffer. Hold block till they cry cos u barely take 2k damage from their meteor. Watch them have a panic attack cos ur immovable is up seemingly 24/7. In large scale battles run into zergs and lock them down with talons while perma blocking while ur alliance nukes them with siege. Watch the AP roll in cos every zergling tagged u and died.

Tanks are alive and well in pvp. We just don't see too many of them cos people love to follow streamer dodge roll monkey builds and think its the only way to be OP. Don't give up fellow tank. We will rise one day. When zos fixes resistances and penetration. But till that day we will perma block and make zerglings cry.

OP wasn't about tanking zergs.
He was talking about 1v1 or 1vX with a tankier build.
IMHO: Black Rose and Fasalla hit like a soaked spaghetto, and in small scale fights you die in 15-20 seconds (instead of 10-15) because you're unable to apply real pressure on the opponents, and you don't get constitution regen because you don't get hit as often.
You need to combine BR or other with some DPS stuff (agility, for instance) for smaller-scale fights.

Whatever you choose, heavy armour is the hard way.

My two Orcish cents.

Oo in small scale I run 5 heavy morkuldin with agility and engin Guardian. If you can't small scale with an SnB stam dk its def an L2P issue. Cos stam dks are ridiculous in 1v1s and small scale fights. Straight up insane tanky with neigh infinite sustain OP. Stam dks are just bad in open world large group pvp.

Sometimes I even stick with my black rose and fasallas for small scale. With wrath and major brutality my weapon power is around 2.8k. Not crazy high like dps toons but more than enough to apply considerable pressure with 80% heal debuff and Dots. Especially since as long as you hold block you are pretty much unkillable with engin/mal giving u some crazy sustain.

Edit: yeah you need vigor op. Without it barely any heals save rally for dk cos dragons blood sucks.

If I block, I have no stamina left after 2 seconds. I don't have block cost reduction on anything (except S/B passive and CP)
And if I block it seems the opponent has infinite amount of resources to just keep spamming what ever attack they like spamming.

I don't think anyone here will be able to teach me what to do with my build, I need someone in-game to SHOW me, and explain what's going on as it is going on. It's very frustrating not knowing what you're doing wrong

If you are on PC-NA, pm me at @Vangy. Id be happy to duel/test/help you out. I can let u come with our small scale guild runs too. Our small scale runs involve around 4-8 people tops. So it should fit in line with your chosen style of play of fighting outnumbered.

On a Side note, holding block on a build not optimised for it, ie with 0 block cost reduction enchants etc etc is a bad idea. You need to choose what you want to block and when to block. In a 1vX, without a perma block build, you need to use dodge rolls and LOS just like a medium armour shuffle dodge roll monkey. HA is bad for these situations. Medium armour provides cost reduc, and more weapon damage and better mobility. As many above have suggested, using HA and not running a perma block build in a 1vX situation is just gimping yourself. Blame ZOS lol. HA resistances provide jack in the current "make-you-naked-penetration" meta.

Also do check out this 1vX video of a post DB SnB heavy armour DK. The video is in this thread;
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3038329/#Comment_3038329


From that video, you can learn a LOT of things. For instance,

1. Watch what attacks he blocks and what he just eats. You cant just block everything on a build not optimised for it.
2. Watch how he uses that tree to LOS when resources are low. Ideally you want to limit the number of people hitting you.
3. See how he times his dodge rolls to evade certain CC moves such as toppling charge etc. Its cheaper to dodge these than to break free.
4. You can also see him using reverb bash to lethal efficiency. Its not just a heal debuff its acts like an interrupt to things like jabs.
5. See how he uses his igneous shields efficiently. Ie: He uses it during malebuth proc and just before vigor for sick heals while getting stamina back.
6. You also get too see battle roar passive of DK in action. He pops it and it refunds so much of his resources.

Maybe the player himself has more to add. So ill tag him for ya. @krathos

krathos wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Also do check out this 1vX video of a post DB SnB heavy armour DK. The video is in this thread;
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3038329/#Comment_3038329


From that video, you can learn a LOT of things. For instance,

1. Watch what attacks he blocks and what he just eats. You cant just block everything on a build not optimised for it.
2. Watch how he uses that tree to LOS when resources are low. Ideally you want to limit the number of people hitting you.
3. See how he times his dodge rolls to evade certain CC moves such as toppling charge etc. Its cheaper to dodge these than to break free.
4. You can also see him using reverb bash to lethal efficiency. Its not just a heal debuff its acts like an interrupt to things like jabs.
5. See how he uses his igneous shields efficiently. Ie: He uses it during malebuth proc and just before vigor for sick heals while getting stamina back.
6. You also get too see battle roar passive of DK in action. He pops it and it refunds so much of his resources.

Maybe the player himself has more to add. So ill tag him for ya. @krathos

Yo. @Vangy is right about all of his points. I don't run a block optimized build at all. I don't even run any cost reduction enchants - they're all weapon damage. This meta is less about your ability to absorb hits and more about your ability to heal through them, really, unless youre in a perma block build. The great thing about that is the fact that you can focus damage and heals at the same time - both on the field and with stats. The same stats that boost your damage boost your vigor/rally heals. And you can attack when vigor ticks. I run with ~3700 weapon damage on my 1h/shield without continuous attack. I stack a lot of heal bonuses:

- 9% from champion points
- 25% from major mending
- 12% from draconic power passive (it's why I run volatile armor)
- 8% from heavy armor
- 30% from malubeth proc

That weapon damage, combined with those healing bonuses, combined with ~40k stamina pool means your vigor ticks are huge, huge, huge. They can reach upwards of 4-4.5k in the right conditions and this is without any major/minor vitality or minor mending. If you're getting bursted pop a heal and your heal buffs and block for a bit. You will shoot back to full pretty quickly. Heal early and heal often. Make sure you unlock the unchained passive from the CP line and whenver you break free cast your most expensive stam skills. Cast a vigor even if you don't need it. You have 3 seconds of 80% cost reduction.

Focus on a bigger stamina pool and ulti regen over more stamina regen. I run only 560 stamina regen. I have no regen gear. I put no CP into it either. More stamina means harder hits, bigger heals, and bigger stamina returns on Helping Hands. Use heavy attacks to restore stamina whenever you can. We get 50% bonus to that from heavy armor. Black rose is a must. Redguard is helpful as well.

Only block or dodge big burst. It takes some practice to know when it's coming but you can start by mentally keeping track of which characters probably have ultimate up at any given time give their build, last time they used it, etc. Players are usually really bad about knowing when to ulti. A lot of the time they will do it right at the start of a fight and whenever it's up again after that.

Move the fight to terrain that benefits you. I don't typically play mountain climber or anything but find a tree or something that you can move around when you need to.

Keep your primary target and any heavy hitters/healers on CC as often as possible. Use reverb for this. Also keep major defile up on as many people as possible.

Keep your dots up.

Recognize when you can burst. Your burst comes almost 100% from your ulti -> execute combo.

The most important thing is to let your enemies feel safe. Let them focus so hard on trying to kill you that they forget about their own defense. Watch and you will see a lot of the time that people get so frustrated by not having a quick kill on you in a 1vX that they focus completely on offensive. Their buffs drop, their heals stop, etc. Wait for that moment and make them pay for being so careless.

Anyways, I hope this helps. I'm still working on this play style myself.

I uploaded a new video just a couple hours ago too so you can check that out as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUt-I1A6rQA

remraub16_ESO wrote: »

krathos wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Also do check out this 1vX video of a post DB SnB heavy armour DK. The video is in this thread;
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3038329/#Comment_3038329


From that video, you can learn a LOT of things. For instance,

1. Watch what attacks he blocks and what he just eats. You cant just block everything on a build not optimised for it.
2. Watch how he uses that tree to LOS when resources are low. Ideally you want to limit the number of people hitting you.
3. See how he times his dodge rolls to evade certain CC moves such as toppling charge etc. Its cheaper to dodge these than to break free.
4. You can also see him using reverb bash to lethal efficiency. Its not just a heal debuff its acts like an interrupt to things like jabs.
5. See how he uses his igneous shields efficiently. Ie: He uses it during malebuth proc and just before vigor for sick heals while getting stamina back.
6. You also get too see battle roar passive of DK in action. He pops it and it refunds so much of his resources.

Maybe the player himself has more to add. So ill tag him for ya. @krathos

Yo. @Vangy is right about all of his points. I don't run a block optimized build at all. I don't even run any cost reduction enchants - they're all weapon damage. This meta is less about your ability to absorb hits and more about your ability to heal through them, really, unless youre in a perma block build. The great thing about that is the fact that you can focus damage and heals at the same time - both on the field and with stats. The same stats that boost your damage boost your vigor/rally heals. And you can attack when vigor ticks. I run with ~3700 weapon damage on my 1h/shield without continuous attack. I stack a lot of heal bonuses:

- 9% from champion points
- 25% from major mending
- 12% from draconic power passive (it's why I run volatile armor)
- 8% from heavy armor
- 30% from malubeth proc

That weapon damage, combined with those healing bonuses, combined with ~40k stamina pool means your vigor ticks are huge, huge, huge. They can reach upwards of 4-4.5k in the right conditions and this is without any major/minor vitality or minor mending. If you're getting bursted pop a heal and your heal buffs and block for a bit. You will shoot back to full pretty quickly. Heal early and heal often. Make sure you unlock the unchained passive from the CP line and whenver you break free cast your most expensive stam skills. Cast a vigor even if you don't need it. You have 3 seconds of 80% cost reduction.

Focus on a bigger stamina pool and ulti regen over more stamina regen. I run only 560 stamina regen. I have no regen gear. I put no CP into it either. More stamina means harder hits, bigger heals, and bigger stamina returns on Helping Hands. Use heavy attacks to restore stamina whenever you can. We get 50% bonus to that from heavy armor. Black rose is a must. Redguard is helpful as well.

Only block or dodge big burst. It takes some practice to know when it's coming but you can start by mentally keeping track of which characters probably have ultimate up at any given time give their build, last time they used it, etc. Players are usually really bad about knowing when to ulti. A lot of the time they will do it right at the start of a fight and whenever it's up again after that.

Move the fight to terrain that benefits you. I don't typically play mountain climber or anything but find a tree or something that you can move around when you need to.

Keep your primary target and any heavy hitters/healers on CC as often as possible. Use reverb for this. Also keep major defile up on as many people as possible.

Keep your dots up.

Recognize when you can burst. Your burst comes almost 100% from your ulti -> execute combo.

The most important thing is to let your enemies feel safe. Let them focus so hard on trying to kill you that they forget about their own defense. Watch and you will see a lot of the time that people get so frustrated by not having a quick kill on you in a 1vX that they focus completely on offensive. Their buffs drop, their heals stop, etc. Wait for that moment and make them pay for being so careless.

Anyways, I hope this helps. I'm still working on this play style myself.

I uploaded a new video just a couple hours ago too so you can check that out as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUt-I1A6rQA

Thanks for all the pointers man, I'll check out the vid

I normally farm in IC, so not many tree's to LoS around Any idea how I deal with people that spam for example wrecking blow or spears? Blocking seems to cost more that it does for them to spam the ability. I've tried CC'ing but they just break free and keep at it. Rolling away just results in a charge and then back at it.

I find it odd that blocking a skill is more expensive than using it, it's so backwards ><

I still think getting vigor will be key for me, but I don't have any PvP guild to roam with, all I get are these 1v1 or 1vx down in sewers, and I lose most of them.. and even when I win it's only like 120 points.. I'm only lvl 3 in assault.