Lysette wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

As for the people sayong Fighters and Mages Guilds; those are more neutral guilds. The Fighters Guild is really just a mercenary group. They fulfill contracts as long as they don't violate the law. They only got put on the deadric hunt because of Sees-All-Colors set it up.

The Mages Guild also doesn't really care about right and wrong or good and evil. They care about studying magic. They help fight Molag because of self-preservation, not for the common good.

It sounds like the OP wants a guild that has a rightious cause. A guild that wants to fight evil and protect Nirn. The FG and MG don't really serve this function.

Such a group would be unnatural anyway - every group, regardless how "good" they try to paint themselves, has self-interest and as well an opponent, who does not see them as a "good" organisation. Even organizations like the red-cross are not just beneficial - if you ever have gotten a bill from them for minor help, you will see, how much of a self-interest they have.

All the person is asking for is for a group like The Knights of the Nine, Vigilants of Stendarr, The Dawnguard etc... Their cause is to wipe out "evil". I'm not naive in thinking that a group can be intrinsically good. There is always self-interest at heart. You keep splitting hairs. I'm not saying we need a guild that is philosophically the epitime of "good". I'm not interested in a debate of good and evil. It is obvious the desire of a "good guy" guild would be one that seeks to destroy the undead and wipe out necromancy, or destroy all deadra worshippers, or werewolf hunters, or bring the Justice of the Eight Divines to the heretics etc... Now like you said these guilds aren't necessarilly good depending on perspective, but their causes are generally thought of as just and good by mosto of the population, ie: killing a Vampire/Werewolf/Undead in town is not a crime in Tamriel.

To burn so called "witches" on stakes alive was once as well seen as just and good by most of the population. This does not make it a good deed, if the majority is insane and suffers from a mass delution. There is no "good guy" guild, because there is not something like a good guy in the first place. The worst are those, who claim themselves to be able to fill that role, because they tend towards bigotry and make the lives of others a nightmare.

Because it is okay to kill everyone as long as you're not bigoted... right. I personally would rather someone behave bigoted toward me than kill me, I don't know about you. Honestly, you're not making a lot of sense, and contradicting yourself left and right. Furthermore, you're missing the entire point of this thread and derailing it with really bad philosophical arguments regarding metaphysics (which I suggested we step away from a while ago). The point here is that the OP would like to play something within the THEMATIC role of the Hero. They would like to be part of an Order that means something more than self interest, and to say no such thing exists is utterly ridiculous. Firefighters charged toward certain death in the twin towers to save lives. They knew it was risky and they did it. That's called Honor. You may not believe in good and evil, but there are still codes of conduct that people live by in many cultures past and present. This sort of code of conduct is what is wanted here, and is exemplified heavily by orders common to the Templar class in particular, but also the Dragon Knights in THIS GAME. Please stop preaching your metaphysics and get back on track with the point here. I'm also just going to say its a little disturbing that you feel Seal Team Six and the Manson Family are more or less the same in mindset. After all its just about killing right?

I really dont see this being an issue once other areas are unlocked and its easier to take your characters in differing directions.

Dont want to be an assassin? Dont do the assassin content.

Dont want to be a thief? Dont do the thief content.

Its absurd that people are upset that there is content in the game that is very much a part of the Elder Scrolls. No ones forcing you to align with either the Dark Brotherhood or the Thieves Guild.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

My only problem is the last two, or three total DLCs so obviously favor Nightblades. Thieves Guild and DB are so much easier on Nightblades and IC is a Nightblade playground. I have had enough of sneaking around. I never really enjoy thieving and stealth assassination gameplay. Wrothgar was fine as it didn't favor any specific gameplay. Besides in VMA, no class so obviously outshines any other. I haven't actually finished either Thieves guild or DB because brooding, dark, thieves and assassins are so boring

Now that Nightblades have access to multiple shields, it seems rather fair that other classes have access to a Cloak. I agree with this wholeheartedly. The Nightblade class would still be the best at Cloaking, but honestly there's no reason they don't put a cloak skill in the Legerdemain skill line and be done with it. Really, it makes absolutely no sense. Everyone should be able to play this role with any character.

That is the last thing I want. No other class should get cloak. I don't want all classes to be the same. What would be the point of classes. We need to stop this trend. Classes should have things they are great at. Nightblades should have stealth and burst, Sorcs should have mobility and burst, DKs should have mitigation and sustain and Templars should have healing and sustain. Make playing a certain class matter. (I'm more talking about PvP, I don't really care that much about PvE)

My only complaint was the 3 out of 4 DLCs being so heavily in favor of stealth gameplay.

Diozaels wrote: »

No one made you do the quests on your main...

If a game is not able to offer more dynamic that gives players more quest choices like asking or answering NPCs and doesn't offer any options how to solve a quest in general then this kind of design is questionable.

It's a bad advice to skip content just because a game only supports hard wired solutions.
A game that doesn't cover any individual choices is just bad design especially for a great MMO like ESO.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

My only problem is the last two, or three total DLCs so obviously favor Nightblades. Thieves Guild and DB are so much easier on Nightblades and IC is a Nightblade playground. I have had enough of sneaking around. I never really enjoy thieving and stealth assassination gameplay. Wrothgar was fine as it didn't favor any specific gameplay. Besides in VMA, no class so obviously outshines any other. I haven't actually finished either Thieves guild or DB because brooding, dark, thieves and assassins are so boring

Now that Nightblades have access to multiple shields, it seems rather fair that other classes have access to a Cloak. I agree with this wholeheartedly. The Nightblade class would still be the best at Cloaking, but honestly there's no reason they don't put a cloak skill in the Legerdemain skill line and be done with it. Really, it makes absolutely no sense. Everyone should be able to play this role with any character.

That is the last thing I want. No other class should get cloak. I don't want all classes to be the same. What would be the point of classes. We need to stop this trend. Classes should have things they are great at. Nightblades should have stealth and burst, Sorcs should have mobility and burst, DKs should have mitigation and sustain and Templars should have healing and sustain. Make playing a certain class matter. (I'm more talking about PvP, I don't really care that much about PvE)

My only complaint was the 3 out of 4 DLCs being so heavily in favor of stealth gameplay.

I'm more in the camp that there should never have been classes to begin with. I enjoy what is there, but it wouldn't have been my design choice. I'm also all for there being a DB, Morag Tong, or Thieves Guild. I was actually a little shocked that TG wasn't there from the getgo back during Beta, in large part because the Thieves Guild was such a staple of prevous TES games. I think the OP makes a good point, and is well within his rights though to voice his interest in playing some kind of a knightly order in the game. I certainly would like that option for some of my characters. The whole point is why are people so vehemently against alternative choices? I would have loved it if the Justice system could have had opposing factions both in a pve and pvp framework. Cops and Robbers. It could have been fun.

Yeah, I would have loved the PvP justice system. I don't think anyone would not want DB, TG etc... (Morag Tong would be a blast because of the lore) it is just we have had 3 of 4 DLCs heavily favor stealth gameplay. For me, a person that doesn't like sneaking, it is boring. I'm not saying we should have gotten rid of DB and TG. They are staples of TES, but I would have prefered spacing them out.

Being able to pick skill lines up without having a predetermined class would have been more in the TES spirit. I always made custom classes in Morrowind and Oblivion.

Bromburak wrote: »

Diozaels wrote: »

No one made you do the quests on your main...

If a game is not able to offer more dynamic that gives players more quest choices like asking or answering NPCs and doesn't offer any options how to solve a quest in general then this kind of design is questionable.

It's a bad advice to skip content just because a game only supports hard wired solutions.
A game that doesn't cover any individual choices is just bad design especially for a great MMO like ESO.

Exactly. They could have offered quest lines to fight the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild.

Volkodav wrote: »

j3crow wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

j3crow wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

j3crow wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

ESO has never been a good guy game.I mean,yes,you as the Nerevarine are the good guy,but everyone else has always been either on the border or over the edge of bad.Everyone has their own agenda in all the games,even Caius Cosades (my second favorite character,Jiub being my first).

ESO may never have been a trope-ish good guy game like a lot of other offerings on the market, but its never been an all bad guy game, ether. We're not talking Age of Conan or Grand Theft Auto here.

I can think of a number of instances in both Morrowind and Skyrim where you can ally with the 'Good Guys", and do 'Good Guy' things. I don't think the intent for most of us is to take any of the elements that they've added away. Only to add counter points for those of us who prefer a different kind of theme. And as others have noted, I don't think the good aligned, but self-serving intentions of the in-game main story guilds fit that bill.

What ZOS did with the two darker DLCs is to take bits from the other ES games and create entire areas of play for us.People love the Morag Tong,so they made The Dark Brotherhood. Same with the Thieves Guild.
While I am not bothered about the darker DLCs,what I DO wonder is how they got the ideas that they did in fleshing out the Thieve's Guild.In Morrowind,it wasnt like it is now. I remember in Mournhold there were a few quests involving thievery,but it wasnt directly to do with the Thieve's Guild.

My sense of it is that they were relying more on the guilds in Skyrim (don't remember if they were DLCs or the base game). You could join the Thieve's Guild and DB through quest chains there. And I agree. I get why they did it that way. It goes to another rather heated topic about how true they were to the franchise when creating an MMO from the sandbox SP game. For my part, I think they did a credible job, given the complexities involved.

My concern is that the next DLC guild will probably be the Morag Tong. And I LIKE the Morag Tong. I will create a Dunmer just for that purpose. But I don't want there to be a continious stream of 'bad guy' content with each DLC, without offering us 'good guy' thematic choices as well. Don't get me wrong. The DLCs were good choices. But they could intersperse them with other thematic content. There are a number of 'good guy' factions like the Dawnguard et al, that could be turned into DLCs as well. Admittedly, you coud argue that the Morag Tong is sort of 'good-ish', given their original mandate. But still...

What about "The Blades",run by Caius Cosades in Morrowind.That would be an interesting DLC. They were pretty good guys.
I actually would like the Morag Tong to be added.Just give us their armor and weapons too!

Yeah, I agree on both counts. Even though I want other stuff, I am actually looking forward to the Morag Tong being implemented. I think I prefer them over the DB

The Blades would be a good choice. There is already some ground work in place for a DLC guild to join. You're already introduced to them in the IC, so they could flesh that out more and take some of it to PVE

I think the Blades should be more PvE than PvP. As they werent into big campaigns or anything.They could have an arena,like in the DB DLC.

I think that would be a great idea. They could be on a renewed effort to find more Dragonborn, since in the current era, the Dragonborn have been disposed. If I recall, historically, there was a time period in which they served that purpose. They could also simply be invested in fighting the wormcult. I mean, they may need to take a little license with it, but it could be good. Heck, they have the license to the franchise. Nothing preventing them from adding to what is already there, lore wise

Lysette wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

What about the blades? I mean, they obviously wouldn't be searching for the dragon born this time around lol, but maybe they could do something useful with themselves. Were they around during this era?

Blades were the emperor's guards - without an emperor, questionable.

The Blades were the Emperor's personal guard but they were of course more than that. They were also imperial spies, keepers of dragon lore, protectors of the faith, etc etc. The original Blades were also there to help fight against Alduin and bring about the end of dragon rule.

While in this particular game the fighter guild and mages guild are doing something good both guilds are neutral. They hire out for contracts to get things done and those things may or may not be good things.

TG is also relatively neutral. Not everything is always about financial gain and some things are for the greater good.

DB........you are stretching to make it neutral being a hit man for a group makes you are the darker side of neutral in the best of circumstances and since you are not calling the shots on who dies there is a greater chance that one would drift to the just evil. At least in normal circumstances.

The DB can get rid of evils that are not easily taken care of. Corrupted officials very wealthy or prestigious people who are abusing their position for example can be removed by assassination more easily then other ways. Assassination how ever can be a very easily abused tool. Often used to intimidate even when the people are doing nothing wrong but are inconvenient or disliked by those with the cash to set such a thing in motion.

While not all of the killing in this dlc seems necessary to me at least the main story line shows how an abusive prestigious position was used to gain power which needed an outside and more neutral source to rectify the situation.