(Magicka DK) Dual wield vs Destro staff front bar

clocksstoppe · June 2016

I've been having a hard time figuring out which is the better choice since at the moment both dual wield and destro staff light attacks are sometimes bugged. The back bar is obviously destro for aoe and elemental drain.

Destro staff advantage: fire damage, ranged, higher light/heavy attack damage, procs elemental drain.
Dual wield advantage: 227 more spell and weapon damage, allows the use of 2 piece set for weapon slots (about 150 spell damage), 1 more enchant slot, 5% bonus to all your damage

From this list, it seems like an obvious choice to go for dual wield but ranged vs melee seems to be a heavy tradeoff, at least from my experience so far. You can lose plenty of damage by having to move. What do you guys think is better? I've been considering running chain just to eliminate the movement problem but it's not a particularly strong skill damage wise and of course, takes up a slot.

Tryxus · June 2016

I use Sword & Board: pretty good synergy with Draconic Power passives, extra Reflect, extra Armor and better defenses

Acsvf · June 2016

As a Magicka DK, always Destruction Staff on the front bar. The amount of damage increase from weaving is way more than the stat bonuses from DW.

If you're not a templar, don't front bar DW for the stats.

ryanborror · June 2016

Yeah for the millionth time don't do it. Use destruction staff.

clocksstoppe · June 2016

Acsvf wrote: »

As a Magicka DK, always Destruction Staff on the front bar. The amount of damage increase from weaving is way more than the stat bonuses from DW.

If you're not a templar, don't front bar DW for the stats.

I'd say it's definitely not way more. I've done quite a bit of testing and for both weapon types you get maximum dps when weaving light attacks. Destro staff is stronger light attack but when you put a flame damage enchant on one of your DW weapons you decrease this gap. And I really have a hard time believing your claim of the destro staff's weaves making up for all of those bonuses.

ryanborror wrote: »

Yeah for the millionth time don't do it. Use destruction staff.

Might as well not post if you're going to post something useless. A new patch just hit with big combat changes. Your "millionth time" is not relevant.

Acsvf · June 2016

clocksstoppe wrote: »

And I really have a hard time believing your claim of the destro staff's weaves making up for all of those bonuses.

Assuming a typical v16 stat of 40000 magicka and 3000 spell power without the bonuses, Molten Whip would deal 6826(0.09536130229*40000+1.001760258*3000+6.567356321) damage. With 337 extra spell power and Twin Blade and Blunt, however, it would deal 716 more damage((0.09536130229*40000+1.001760258*3337+6.567356321)*1.5 - 6826).

Now for the light attacks:
Assuming 3000 spell power and 40000 magicka for destruction staff, and 2000 weapon damage and 12000 stamina for Dual Wield, a light attack with destruction staff deals 2,238(0.0140001*40000+0.559674*3000-0.6) damage, and a light attack for Dual Wield would be 1,399((0.0144366*12000)+(2000*0.579649)*1.05). The difference is 839 damage, more than the difference on Whip.

I rescind the statement stating that it would be 'way more' as the difference is less than I envisioned. That said, the difference would be a lot more significant if you were to use medium attacks as opposed to light attacks.

pretzl · June 2016

Acsvf wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

And I really have a hard time believing your claim of the destro staff's weaves making up for all of those bonuses.

Assuming a typical v16 stat of 40000 magicka and 3000 spell power without the bonuses, Molten Whip would deal 6826(0.09536130229*40000+1.001760258*3000+6.567356321) damage. With 337 extra spell power and Twin Blade and Blunt, however, it would deal 716 more damage((0.09536130229*40000+1.001760258*3337+6.567356321)*1.5 - 6826).

Now for the light attacks:
Assuming 3000 spell power and 40000 magicka for destruction staff, and 2000 weapon damage and 12000 stamina for Dual Wield, a light attack with destruction staff deals 2,238(0.0140001*40000+0.559674*3000-0.6) damage, and a light attack for Dual Wield would be 1,399((0.0144366*12000)+(2000*0.579649)*1.05). The difference is 839 damage, more than the difference on Whip.

I rescind the statement stating that it would be 'way more' as the difference is less than I envisioned. That said, the difference would be a lot more significant if you were to use medium attacks as opposed to light attacks.

I cringe when I read threads suggesting dw is better than staffs for mag DK. Not saying OP did, but yeah...
Hard math is always better, but if you're gonna apply enchants to DW, you gotta add it to the staff too. Say it's a vMA destro. That gap just got way bigger.
OP, take it from someone who has successfully played mDK since 1.6; destro/destro is the way to go. Some people are trying some funky ***, but I've yet to see proof of it's positive sides.
DW, however, I have tested extensively with every patch. It never has and propably never will outperform destro/destro in PvE DPS.

STEVIL · June 2016

Also, consider two additional staff benefits.

1 you will be using it, not as a passive source like dw, but actually using it and thus gaining regularly proc enchants and they are significant. Look at their numbers now. 358 spell dmg for 5 secs without infused or torugs, returning sizeable magica or health just from the attack, etc.

2 the ability to generate magica while on offense with heavy attack. The new DB Order sees a sizable cost increase so the old "all damage all night long" does not work as well. So the ability to gain constant magica AND have noteworthy offense without burning mag is significant.

Put the magica dmg plus return magica on, then weave and see magica stay up there even on light weaves.

I call staff-mag builds "synced builds because of the tag team benefits from the light/heavy and the core stat.
I call the ones like dw-mag or resto-stam "skewed builds" because they dont help each other.

I hsve tried plenty of skewed and except for som3 set piece solo puzzles they generally have been less effective for me.

Baconlad · June 2016

I don't know...i feel like dragonknight abilities synergize really well with a DK. I would agree that the sword and shield may be really good for extra defense while in the fray. But alas...i am assuming PVP, as that's my main gameplay. All the healing that comes from DK magicka abilities...insane, my wife has been playing around with magick DW DK build, and she loving it.

RinaldoGandolphi · June 2016

Your better off with a fire staff on a magic DK

The Destro Staff Passives give you a 100% increase in the chance to apply burning with ANY attacks that deals flame damage as long as you have a Destro Staff equipped and Combustion increases the damage of the burning effect by 66%

It's a no brainier fire staff over dual wield any day of the week, even more if your a dunmer