Apparently if you slot a poison on your weapon and have that weapon active when you use blade of woe, it counts towards the optional completion.

Dunkmeister wrote: »

Apparently if you slot a poison on your weapon and have that weapon active when you use blade of woe, it counts towards the optional completion.

This right here. You can still complete sacraments entirely from stealth and get no bounty.

I have put poison on my weapons for a Sacrament quest requiring a NPC be killed with poison. I used the Blade of Woe to accomplish the objective and after the kill received a message I failed to use poison. So apparently using poison with the Blade of Woe does not work every time and ZOS needs to check on that.

Palidon wrote: »

I would like someone to explain to me how a player deserves a bounty for killing a target objective as directed by the quest? Case in point. My recent Dark Brotherhood Sacrament Quest required I kill a NPC named Monsashana using poison not the Blade of Woe. I followed the objective and equipped my weapon with a deadly poison. The target NPC was located in a secret room. There were no other NPC's in the room therefore no witnesses. I attacked from stealth using a light attack and was given credit for the assassination by using poison. However, I also received a bounty for killing that NPC. I don't know all the particulars of getting a bounty, but (1) if there are no witnesses why get one and (2) if the kill is part of a quest and the player accomplishes the objectives then why get one for that?

I equipped poison on a restoration staff and used the blade of woe. It gave me credit for using poison.

Then I sprinted out towards the exit on the lower level (because of the surprise time limit) where there were no NPCs around, and somehow was spotted by an NPC on the second floor. As this was my first run, that used up my last alert thingy. So, I achieved all of the objectives, accept the alert-status one, but still only received a green item for completion.

I'm wondering:

1. Why the dark brotherhood cares about stealth? As long as the target dies, isn't that a good kill?
2. How does poison work on a staff? Like really? Do you fling it at them or something?
3. Why are sacraments basically a continuation of heists? Dark brotherhood quests should be about killing, not sneaky-sneaky , ha-ha you can't catch me game-play.
4. Why are we breaking random items on these quests? We're already murdering these people, so what is the point of breaking their stuff? Extra objectives should be extra kills, or activating an event that kills multiple people.

BL for ZOS: sacraments need a re-imagining to make them more in line with the Dark Brotherhood. They're playable now, and to a certain extent enjoyable, but they could be way better.

holosoul wrote: »

@dethbl00ms they care about stealth because without it the sacrament would just be a delve

I wasn't asking why ZOS used it in sacraments. I asked why the Dark Brotherhood cares about it. In previous Elder Scroll games, for the majority of Dark Brotherhood quests, stealth was at the assassin's discretion. Now, in Sacraments it is mandatory to receive full rewards.

If you want to be super stealthy to avoid bounties, then good for you. I don't think sacrament rewards should be based on that aspect.

and I told you the dark brotherhood cares about it because there's no other way to give you a quest that isn't simply "kill the boss of a delve"

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

dethbl00ms wrote: »

holosoul wrote: »

@dethbl00ms they care about stealth because without it the sacrament would just be a delve

I wasn't asking why ZOS used it in sacraments. I asked why the Dark Brotherhood cares about it. In previous Elder Scroll games, for the majority of Dark Brotherhood quests, stealth was at the assassin's discretion. Now, in Sacraments it is mandatory to receive full rewards.

If you want to be super stealthy to avoid bounties, then good for you. I don't think sacrament rewards should be based on that aspect.

Doesn't the quest giver talk about it? He's giving you the contract and the optional objectives are basically his challenges for you to test your skill.

Yes, he does mention it, because that is how the sacraments are currently built. What I'm saying - the point that you both seem to be missing - is that they should be built around murder, not stealth and sneaking. Disagree if you like. It just seems redundant to have sacraments focused on sneaking around when we already have heists.

The focus of the two guilds has historically been stealthy robbery for the Thieve's Guild and murder (regardless of style) for the Dark Brotherhood. Now it seems like they're both focused on sneaking. Regardless of how the justice system operates in general PVE zones, I think they could come up with better objectives for sacraments.

dethbl00ms wrote: »

Gaius_Marius wrote: »

dethbl00ms wrote: »

holosoul wrote: »

@dethbl00ms they care about stealth because without it the sacrament would just be a delve

I wasn't asking why ZOS used it in sacraments. I asked why the Dark Brotherhood cares about it. In previous Elder Scroll games, for the majority of Dark Brotherhood quests, stealth was at the assassin's discretion. Now, in Sacraments it is mandatory to receive full rewards.

If you want to be super stealthy to avoid bounties, then good for you. I don't think sacrament rewards should be based on that aspect.

Doesn't the quest giver talk about it? He's giving you the contract and the optional objectives are basically his challenges for you to test your skill.

Yes, he does mention it, because that is how the sacraments are currently built. What I'm saying - the point that you both seem to be missing - is that they should be built around murder, not stealth and sneaking. Disagree if you like. It just seems redundant to have sacraments focused on sneaking around when we already have heists.

The focus of the two guilds has historically been stealthy robbery for the Thieve's Guild and murder (regardless of style) for the Dark Brotherhood. Now it seems like they're both focused on sneaking. Regardless of how the justice system operates in general PVE zones, I think they could come up with better objectives for sacraments.

How many assassins in any lore, books, tv, movies, games, dont use stealth to hide their murderous ways? Its a VERY common practice and murder and stealth go hand in hand. An assassin that doesnt use stealth is not an assassin but is instead just a murderer.

dethbl00ms wrote: »

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Good question. Yes, stealth is a popular technique for assassination, but not always necessary. Disguising yourself, staging kill areas/ambush points, rigging traps, contaminating resources and manipulating other parties are also good methods of assassination. Your method should adapt to your environment and target.

Proposing that all assassins should be sneaky-sneaky rogues in all situations is needlessly limiting, in my opinion. This is where I'm coming from: we shouldn't have to use stealth on every sacrament to get top rewards. I would like ZOS to rework sacraments so they do not all depend on this technique. If you want to yolo in and rack up a huge bounty, that should be between you and the city guard. This has been historically how the Dark Brotherhood has operated.

We already have a guild devoted to stealth and sneaking that hands out dailies that require it for top tier rewards. The Dark Brotherhood should have more distinct challenges so sacraments feel less like an expansion on heists, which is basically what they are now.

Perfectly put!!! The Sacraments feel like a repeat of the Thieves Guild Heists. It would have been excellent if it required more environmental manipulation with traps etc to complete the objective.

Thieves = Sneaking, not getting caught

Dark Brotherhood = A murderous cult

I had another thought on heists and sacraments: why aren't there any above-ground locations?

In the Thieve's Guild story quest-line, the very first heist you complete is a quest in Eastmarch which is in a secluded hold both above ground and below. That was fun!

Why should all the heists and sacraments be in caves and sewers? They could be in secluded valleys, grottos, bandit camps, etc. They could also be in Ayleid and Dwemer ruins.

@ZOS_MandiParker: is this feasible? (I'm assuming heists and sacraments are your pets.) Are there any plans to add more areas to heists and sacraments that are perhaps a bit more diverse?