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Putting the crafting bag behind a sub wall BS
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Ethromelb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭GivvumBoane wrote: »Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »Why shouldn't, ZoS, get paid for offering such a cool feature? Besides, what's there to complain about? With a sub you gain access to EVERYTHING. That's better than paying separate for one thing.
Everything > Craft Sack ... Yeeaaah ... I'll go with everything. I personally think that anybody not subbing for a good reason, has got to be out their mind. There is just too much offered with only a $14.99 tag price.
What about everyone who has already paid to have permanent access to EVERYTHING? What about them @Ethromelb14_ESO ?
How can you permanently pay for an MMO? That makes no sense. Have I missed some sort of one time offer?
He is referring to the buy vs rent options for dlc.
Oh ok ... Now here's my question to that option. Why would anybody want to buy the DLC when it doesn't really belong to you? I understand getting vanity items to enjoy the experience playing, but actually separately buying something that can be acquired in bulk for a lower price, just makes more sense. Case in point, the purchase of any DLC will be pointless without the server, and ends up being a waste of money. As long as they own the catalyst to these DLCs, you don't really own anything.
I pay the sub of $14.99 for access to content - not ownership.Motto: Make deceivers believers.
Strength of character is not a physical thing. -EWalking a mile in someone else's shoes, has nothing to do with the path taken. -E
An accusation of elitism, is an indirect recognition of one's own inferiority. -E
The best way to prove someone wrong, is to do better yourself. -E
I keep forgetting to remember to get a photographic memory.2 -
Smileybones✭✭✭✭@NewBlacksmurf You're playing with words: crafting bags are a sub perk, not a base game update.
Actually there is nothing in the base game update closed behind the sub wall, don't spread out misinformation.10 -
SwaminoNowlino✭✭✭✭✭Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »Why shouldn't, ZoS, get paid for offering such a cool feature? Besides, what's there to complain about? With a sub you gain access to EVERYTHING. That's better than paying separate for one thing.
Everything > Craft Sack ... Yeeaaah ... I'll go with everything. I personally think that anybody not subbing for a good reason, has got to be out their mind. There is just too much offered with only a $14.99 tag price.
What about everyone who has already paid to have permanent access to EVERYTHING? What about them @Ethromelb14_ESO ?
How can you permanently pay for an MMO? That makes no sense. Have I missed some sort of one time offer?
If you want to argue that no digital item is permanent @Ethromelb14_ESO , then sure... you're right. But you know that's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about buying DLC with Crowns...Elder Scrolls Online Support wrote:DLC game packs will be available for purchase in the Crown Store on an a la carte basis. Once purchased, the associated content will be available to players who own them for as long as The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited is available.
https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/tamrielunlimitedfaq
That's as permanent as it gets in an MMO.... What about players who have partaken (partook?... partooken?) in ESO using this payment method? Those players have access to everything because they paid the premium to have that access. Now what? What about them?
It's called sunk cost in economics and should not be taken into consideration for future investment as it cannot be changed.
I bought a few DLC's and still subbed because I feel I get $15 a month worth of enjoyment from it. Simple as that.Xbox NA : CP 160 StamPlar, MagNB, MagSorc, StamSorc, StamDK, StamNB, Level 10 MagDK & MagPlar, StamWarden, MagWarden
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GivvumBoane✭✭✭✭Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »Why shouldn't, ZoS, get paid for offering such a cool feature? Besides, what's there to complain about? With a sub you gain access to EVERYTHING. That's better than paying separate for one thing.
Everything > Craft Sack ... Yeeaaah ... I'll go with everything. I personally think that anybody not subbing for a good reason, has got to be out their mind. There is just too much offered with only a $14.99 tag price.
What about everyone who has already paid to have permanent access to EVERYTHING? What about them @Ethromelb14_ESO ?
How can you permanently pay for an MMO? That makes no sense. Have I missed some sort of one time offer?
He is referring to the buy vs rent options for dlc.
Oh ok ... Now here's my question to that option. Why would anybody want to buy the DLC when it doesn't really belong to you? I understand getting vanity items to enjoy the experience playing, but actually separately buying something that can be acquired in bulk for a lower price, just makes more sense. Case in point, the purchase of any DLC will be pointless without the server, and ends up being a waste of money. As long as they own the catalyst to these DLCs, you don't really own anything.
I pay the sub of $14.99 for access to content - not ownership.
Say the server stays live for 10 years. For 10 years the person that bought it has access to it. The person subbing loses access the second the sub lapses.All hail the prophet that is Mike Judge, for his Idiocracy prophecy is near fruition.0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Smileybones wrote: »@NewBlacksmurf You're playing with words: crafting bags are a sub perk, not a base game update.
Actually there is nothing in the base game update closed behind the sub wall, don't spread out misinformation.
@Smileybones
Please stop and go read. It's not a play on words, it's literally what the article stated, what the website lists, what the announcement article and what the lead dev stated on ESO live and now the patch notes literally state it
Let's not argue and let's go to the source. In my prior linked comment, in that thread, I've referred to all of this.
It's just that ZOS has gone back on their word that base game updates would not require a subscription.
I'm not even talking about the ESO plus perk (benefits) because if it was a benefit, it would enhance the base game patch update. This is a base game patch update locked behind a paywall per a new ZOS decision.
It is exactly just that
Understand that the bag is actually functional but the ability to add and manage is locked behind the sub. Now if this bag has limited access without a sub that's fine but no access makes it actually sub-only which goes against Tamriel Unlimited announcement detailsEdited by NewBlacksmurf on June 1, 2016 2:54AM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
SteveCampsOut✭✭✭✭✭
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Smileybones wrote: »@NewBlacksmurf You're playing with words: crafting bags are a sub perk, not a base game update.
Actually there is nothing in the base game update closed behind the sub wall, don't spread out misinformation.
Don' t try to argue with him, He's willfully misleading people because He wants Free Stuff.@ֆȶɛʋɛƈǟʍքֆօʊȶ⍟
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Ethromelb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »Why shouldn't, ZoS, get paid for offering such a cool feature? Besides, what's there to complain about? With a sub you gain access to EVERYTHING. That's better than paying separate for one thing.
Everything > Craft Sack ... Yeeaaah ... I'll go with everything. I personally think that anybody not subbing for a good reason, has got to be out their mind. There is just too much offered with only a $14.99 tag price.
What about everyone who has already paid to have permanent access to EVERYTHING? What about them @Ethromelb14_ESO ?
How can you permanently pay for an MMO? That makes no sense. Have I missed some sort of one time offer?
If you want to argue that no digital item is permanent @Ethromelb14_ESO , then sure... you're right. But you know that's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about buying DLC with Crowns...Elder Scrolls Online Support wrote:DLC game packs will be available for purchase in the Crown Store on an a la carte basis. Once purchased, the associated content will be available to players who own them for as long as The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited is available.
https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/tamrielunlimitedfaq
That's as permanent as it gets in an MMO.... What about players who have partaken (partook?... partooken?) in ESO using this payment method? Those players have access to everything because they paid the premium to have that access. Now what? What about them?
The dilemma you speak of is the same problem many had with DCUO. In DCUO, unless you remained legendary through subbing, you lost access to your unlimited money capacity. Going premium left you with an escrow of your surplus cash. Subbing is supporting in their eyes. That choice of purchase is a one time deal. It does not govern all aspects of the game.
Think of it this way. A sub is like a contract, whereas, the payment you've made was for the DLC and nothing more. You are refusing to get in to a "contract" with ZoS, and lets be honest ... big brother companies are all about contracts. I'm not saying it makes sense - I'm just saying that's how they think.
So the craft bag is a gift to contractual supporters of the game. The developing company prefers subs over single purchases. I hope that was clear.Edited by Ethromelb14_ESO on June 1, 2016 2:57AMMotto: Make deceivers believers.
Strength of character is not a physical thing. -EWalking a mile in someone else's shoes, has nothing to do with the path taken. -E
An accusation of elitism, is an indirect recognition of one's own inferiority. -E
The best way to prove someone wrong, is to do better yourself. -E
I keep forgetting to remember to get a photographic memory.3 -
Mr.Hmm✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »It's BS only because they literally told everyone that subs would be optional and that you could choose to sub, choose to pay or choose to miss-out. Now it's sub only which is no longer Tamriel Unlimited.
You don't have to sub. Subs are still optional.
@GivvumBoane Actually you are required to sub in order to gain access to this base game update.
There is no way around getting this "base game update" unless you sub.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »It's BS only because they literally told everyone that subs would be optional and that you could choose to sub, choose to pay or choose to miss-out. Now it's sub only which is no longer Tamriel Unlimited.
Uh no you are wrong.
Unless you are a crafter the crafting bag is worthless to you.
Paying a sub is 100% optional, nobody is forcing you to pay a sub. You can buy crowns and get the DLC without paying the sub if you want.
@mr.hmm
See above and also refer to the locked thread on this topic
My comments are there and are accurate as detailed
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3014548/#Comment_3014548
It was know that the Craft Bags were going to be ESO+ Exclusive.
But everything else seems to be free since they have been added to the Base Game. Which brings the question:
Where exactly do you see that you are forced to pay for ESO+?
I am a bit confused on that.
The only things that are away from reach are the DLC if you dont own them or dont have an active ESO+ sub.Edited by Mr.Hmm on June 1, 2016 2:54AMIf I die tomorrow I do not want to think of the game I could of played today, therefor I will play whatever I want today while securing a future to play in as well.
A true gamer will think of all the possible outcomes and execute the one that is the hardest to accomplish.1 -
GivvumBoane✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »It's BS only because they literally told everyone that subs would be optional and that you could choose to sub, choose to pay or choose to miss-out. Now it's sub only which is no longer Tamriel Unlimited.
You don't have to sub. Subs are still optional.
@GivvumBoane Actually you are required to sub in order to gain access to this base game update.
There is no way around getting this "base game update" unless you sub.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »It's BS only because they literally told everyone that subs would be optional and that you could choose to sub, choose to pay or choose to miss-out. Now it's sub only which is no longer Tamriel Unlimited.
Uh no you are wrong.
Unless you are a crafter the crafting bag is worthless to you.
Paying a sub is 100% optional, nobody is forcing you to pay a sub. You can buy crowns and get the DLC without paying the sub if you want.
@mr.hmm
See above and also refer to the locked thread on this topic
My comments are there and are accurate as detailed
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3014548/#Comment_3014548
It was know that the Craft Bags were going to be ESO+ Exclusive.
But everything else seems to be free since they have been added to the Base Game. Which brings the question:
Where exactly do you see that you are forced to pay for ESO+?
I am a bit confused on that.
The only things that are away from reach are the DLC if you dont own them or dont have an active ESO+ sub.
Because the crafting bag is listed under the base game patch notes.All hail the prophet that is Mike Judge, for his Idiocracy prophecy is near fruition.1 -
Mr.Hmm✭✭✭✭GivvumBoane wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »It's BS only because they literally told everyone that subs would be optional and that you could choose to sub, choose to pay or choose to miss-out. Now it's sub only which is no longer Tamriel Unlimited.
You don't have to sub. Subs are still optional.
@GivvumBoane Actually you are required to sub in order to gain access to this base game update.
There is no way around getting this "base game update" unless you sub.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »It's BS only because they literally told everyone that subs would be optional and that you could choose to sub, choose to pay or choose to miss-out. Now it's sub only which is no longer Tamriel Unlimited.
Uh no you are wrong.
Unless you are a crafter the crafting bag is worthless to you.
Paying a sub is 100% optional, nobody is forcing you to pay a sub. You can buy crowns and get the DLC without paying the sub if you want.
@mr.hmm
See above and also refer to the locked thread on this topic
My comments are there and are accurate as detailed
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3014548/#Comment_3014548
It was know that the Craft Bags were going to be ESO+ Exclusive.
But everything else seems to be free since they have been added to the Base Game. Which brings the question:
Where exactly do you see that you are forced to pay for ESO+?
I am a bit confused on that.
The only things that are away from reach are the DLC if you dont own them or dont have an active ESO+ sub.
Because the crafting bag is listed under the base game patch notes.
Ofc it is since its not a DLC centered thing but a Base game centered thing.
You pay for ESO+ and you have access to crafting bag, you can deposit and withdraw as you want.
Once your ESO+ is expired you still have access to crafting bag, you just simply cannot add any materials in but can only withdraw.If I die tomorrow I do not want to think of the game I could of played today, therefor I will play whatever I want today while securing a future to play in as well.
A true gamer will think of all the possible outcomes and execute the one that is the hardest to accomplish.7 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Smileybones wrote: »@NewBlacksmurf You're playing with words: crafting bags are a sub perk, not a base game update.
Actually there is nothing in the base game update closed behind the sub wall, don't spread out misinformation.
I disagree @pieceofyarnb14_ESO ... it's an improvement to a game system... one which has been complained about time and time again. to argue that it's a perk is pointless because, of course it's a perk! It's been placed behind ESO+. If ZOS removed public Cyrodiil access and placed it behind ESO+, Cyrodiil would then be a "perk".
The question is... are the crafting bags an appropriate ESO+ perk? Nope... they are not? WHY? Because it improves on a system that the community has been complaining about and that system is one that is a core gameplay system for everyone.
Again, we could argue semantics of a perk but it's pointless. Those who likes this will argue it's a perk and not an improvement of core gameplay... those who dislike it will see it in a way that favors their point of view.
The fact is, there is no longer parity between those who sub and those who do not. I cannot pay with gold, time, or real money (one time) to gain ANYTHING that equals the benefit of the ESO+ Crafting Bags. Can I?Edited by Gidorick on June 1, 2016 2:58AMWhat ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!4 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
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@mr.hmmNewBlacksmurf wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »It's BS only because they literally told everyone that subs would be optional and that you could choose to sub, choose to pay or choose to miss-out. Now it's sub only which is no longer Tamriel Unlimited.
You don't have to sub. Subs are still optional.
@GivvumBoane Actually you are required to sub in order to gain access to this base game update.
There is no way around getting this "base game update" unless you sub.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »It's BS only because they literally told everyone that subs would be optional and that you could choose to sub, choose to pay or choose to miss-out. Now it's sub only which is no longer Tamriel Unlimited.
Uh no you are wrong.
Unless you are a crafter the crafting bag is worthless to you.
Paying a sub is 100% optional, nobody is forcing you to pay a sub. You can buy crowns and get the DLC without paying the sub if you want.
@mr.hmm
See above and also refer to the locked thread on this topic
My comments are there and are accurate as detailed
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3014548/#Comment_3014548
It was know that the Craft Bags were going to be ESO+ Exclusive.
But everything else seems to be free since they have been added to the Base Game. Which brings the question:
Where exactly do you see that you are forced to pay for ESO+?
I am a bit confused on that.
The only things that are away from reach are the DLC if you dont own them or dont have an active ESO+ sub.
In response: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3024172/#Comment_3024172
"Extended Inventory for Crafters (Craft Bag)
ESO Plus members will now receive access to an extended inventory for crafters (Craft Bag.)
The Craft Bag is an additional inventory section which does not count against your inventory limit, is shared across all characters on your account, and can hold an effectively unlimited number of all basic crafting supplies.
If your membership expires, you will still have access to the resources stored in your Craft Bag, but you will be unable to add any new materials to it."
Notice their patch notes and the announcement article detail that is Base Game Patch update feature is exclusive to ESO Plus subscribers. This is the definition of an ESO Plus requirement to access a base game patch feature.
It's not DLC which contradicts with the Tamriel Unlimited announcement and info where they suggest that current and future base game patch updates will be included in Tamriel Unlimited purchase without the requirement of a subscription.
It's also on the box-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5011 -
GivvumBoane✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »It's BS only because they literally told everyone that subs would be optional and that you could choose to sub, choose to pay or choose to miss-out. Now it's sub only which is no longer Tamriel Unlimited.
You don't have to sub. Subs are still optional.
@GivvumBoane Actually you are required to sub in order to gain access to this base game update.
There is no way around getting this "base game update" unless you sub.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »It's BS only because they literally told everyone that subs would be optional and that you could choose to sub, choose to pay or choose to miss-out. Now it's sub only which is no longer Tamriel Unlimited.
Uh no you are wrong.
Unless you are a crafter the crafting bag is worthless to you.
Paying a sub is 100% optional, nobody is forcing you to pay a sub. You can buy crowns and get the DLC without paying the sub if you want.
@mr.hmm
See above and also refer to the locked thread on this topic
My comments are there and are accurate as detailed
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3014548/#Comment_3014548
It was know that the Craft Bags were going to be ESO+ Exclusive.
But everything else seems to be free since they have been added to the Base Game. Which brings the question:
Where exactly do you see that you are forced to pay for ESO+?
I am a bit confused on that.
The only things that are away from reach are the DLC if you dont own them or dont have an active ESO+ sub.
Because the crafting bag is listed under the base game patch notes.GivvumBoane wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »It's BS only because they literally told everyone that subs would be optional and that you could choose to sub, choose to pay or choose to miss-out. Now it's sub only which is no longer Tamriel Unlimited.
You don't have to sub. Subs are still optional.
@GivvumBoane Actually you are required to sub in order to gain access to this base game update.
There is no way around getting this "base game update" unless you sub.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »It's BS only because they literally told everyone that subs would be optional and that you could choose to sub, choose to pay or choose to miss-out. Now it's sub only which is no longer Tamriel Unlimited.
Uh no you are wrong.
Unless you are a crafter the crafting bag is worthless to you.
Paying a sub is 100% optional, nobody is forcing you to pay a sub. You can buy crowns and get the DLC without paying the sub if you want.
@mr.hmm
See above and also refer to the locked thread on this topic
My comments are there and are accurate as detailed
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3014548/#Comment_3014548
It was know that the Craft Bags were going to be ESO+ Exclusive.
But everything else seems to be free since they have been added to the Base Game. Which brings the question:
Where exactly do you see that you are forced to pay for ESO+?
I am a bit confused on that.
The only things that are away from reach are the DLC if you dont own them or dont have an active ESO+ sub.
Because the crafting bag is listed under the base game patch notes.
Ofc it is since its not a DLC centered thing but a Base game centered thing.
You pay for ESO+ and you have access to crafting bag, you can deposit and withdraw as you want.
Once your ESO+ is expired you still have access to crafting bag, you just simply cannot add any materials in but can only withdraw.
I understand how this works. The other guy doesn'tAll hail the prophet that is Mike Judge, for his Idiocracy prophecy is near fruition.0 -
Smileybones✭✭✭✭@Gidorick Call it whatever you want a perk, a feature, a core update, it's not important.
The point is that with only 1 char with maxed storage (horse, bank and bags) I could satisfy all my storage needs for a full master crafter, meaning I could store a stack of every crafting mat in bank.
Crafting bags will only save me trips to bank and/or guild store, so it's just a quality of life thing, not a game breaker/changer thing so important that no one can play decently without it.11 -
Ethromelb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭These companies make more money from a consistent subscription than they do from individual purchases where a player can pick and choose which dlc they want or don't want. That amounts to a fair-weather consumer.
Pretend you're a landlord ... Who would you rather have? A tenant that promises to mail a set discounted payment every month? Or a tenant that will, might, potentially pay double your price once or twice, IF they decide to stay? A landlord makes more money renting than they will selling ownership of the home over to the tenant.
You're busy buying pseudo-ownership, instead of just renting and letting the "landlord" flip the bill on all repairs. Ultimately anybody doing this will eventually take a lose. Perma-paying is not worth it - Just sub and be done with it.Edited by Ethromelb14_ESO on June 1, 2016 3:18AMMotto: Make deceivers believers.
Strength of character is not a physical thing. -EWalking a mile in someone else's shoes, has nothing to do with the path taken. -E
An accusation of elitism, is an indirect recognition of one's own inferiority. -E
The best way to prove someone wrong, is to do better yourself. -E
I keep forgetting to remember to get a photographic memory.4 -
Egonieser✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »Why shouldn't, ZoS, get paid for offering such a cool feature? Besides, what's there to complain about? With a sub you gain access to EVERYTHING. That's better than paying separate for one thing.
Everything > Craft Sack ... Yeeaaah ... I'll go with everything. I personally think that anybody not subbing for a good reason, has got to be out their mind. There is just too much offered with only a $14.99 tag price.
What about everyone who has already paid to have permanent access to EVERYTHING? What about them @Ethromelb14_ESO ?
You paid for permanent access to DLC, not the sub perks. Don't make up your own truths. You decided to pay for a DLC? Good for you, you got your DLC, enjoy. Don't expect anything more without paying more.
You went to the shop and got a pint of milk for a fixed price, great - you got your milk. Your neighbour pays monthly to the milkman to get his milk and gets half a pint extra for free for being a loyal customer. So you go to the shop, moan and rage because your neighbour gets extras for paying monthly and you don't, for paying a one time price? Give me a break...
Loyal customers are considered those that pay on a regular basis e.g. subscribers. And no, being a loyal customer is not the same as being a loyal player so don't even try to bring that senseless argument in here.
Devs and publishers can count on the subscribers because they are a reliable and predictable source of income, where as impulse buyers are not. They are needed, yeah, but not reliable because nobody is a mind reader and can predict who is going to buy what and when.Edited by Egonieser on June 1, 2016 3:20AMSometimes, I dream about...cheese...
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Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I get the complaint even if I got it for resubing . It is a feature behind a paywall and it also can be seen as a convenance item . One of those gray area things . I needed to the space and was told it doesn't disappear after unsubbing , you just can't add to it after . Be nice just to add it as an unlock in the crown store for those that don't need ESO plus .1 -
SwaminoNowlino✭✭✭✭✭GivvumBoane wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »It's BS only because they literally told everyone that subs would be optional and that you could choose to sub, choose to pay or choose to miss-out. Now it's sub only which is no longer Tamriel Unlimited.
You don't have to sub. Subs are still optional.
@GivvumBoane Actually you are required to sub in order to gain access to this base game update.
There is no way around getting this "base game update" unless you sub.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »It's BS only because they literally told everyone that subs would be optional and that you could choose to sub, choose to pay or choose to miss-out. Now it's sub only which is no longer Tamriel Unlimited.
Uh no you are wrong.
Unless you are a crafter the crafting bag is worthless to you.
Paying a sub is 100% optional, nobody is forcing you to pay a sub. You can buy crowns and get the DLC without paying the sub if you want.
@mr.hmm
See above and also refer to the locked thread on this topic
My comments are there and are accurate as detailed
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3014548/#Comment_3014548
It was know that the Craft Bags were going to be ESO+ Exclusive.
But everything else seems to be free since they have been added to the Base Game. Which brings the question:
Where exactly do you see that you are forced to pay for ESO+?
I am a bit confused on that.
The only things that are away from reach are the DLC if you dont own them or dont have an active ESO+ sub.
Because the crafting bag is listed under the base game patch notes.GivvumBoane wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »It's BS only because they literally told everyone that subs would be optional and that you could choose to sub, choose to pay or choose to miss-out. Now it's sub only which is no longer Tamriel Unlimited.
You don't have to sub. Subs are still optional.
@GivvumBoane Actually you are required to sub in order to gain access to this base game update.
There is no way around getting this "base game update" unless you sub.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »It's BS only because they literally told everyone that subs would be optional and that you could choose to sub, choose to pay or choose to miss-out. Now it's sub only which is no longer Tamriel Unlimited.
Uh no you are wrong.
Unless you are a crafter the crafting bag is worthless to you.
Paying a sub is 100% optional, nobody is forcing you to pay a sub. You can buy crowns and get the DLC without paying the sub if you want.
@mr.hmm
See above and also refer to the locked thread on this topic
My comments are there and are accurate as detailed
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3014548/#Comment_3014548
It was know that the Craft Bags were going to be ESO+ Exclusive.
But everything else seems to be free since they have been added to the Base Game. Which brings the question:
Where exactly do you see that you are forced to pay for ESO+?
I am a bit confused on that.
The only things that are away from reach are the DLC if you dont own them or dont have an active ESO+ sub.
Because the crafting bag is listed under the base game patch notes.
Ofc it is since its not a DLC centered thing but a Base game centered thing.
You pay for ESO+ and you have access to crafting bag, you can deposit and withdraw as you want.
Once your ESO+ is expired you still have access to crafting bag, you just simply cannot add any materials in but can only withdraw.
I understand how this works. The other guy doesn't
The other guy lies and employs logical fallacies to try to get his way. But alas, it is what it is. If you feel the crafting bag and other perks that ESO plus brings with it then sub. Otherwise don't, you can choose. Simple as that. (It's funny that crafting bags somehow are unfair base game perks or whatever but the experience bonus and reduced research times are not lol). Remember, it is just a video game folks. If it outrages you that much, no one is making you stick around. Nothing about a video game should provoke such a vehement reaction.Xbox NA : CP 160 StamPlar, MagNB, MagSorc, StamSorc, StamDK, StamNB, Level 10 MagDK & MagPlar, StamWarden, MagWarden
"We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of combat to feel awesome." - The Balance Lord Wrobel
- And now it sure does, better learn how to bash folks!
I get by with a little help from logic.7 -
Mr.Hmm✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
@mr.hmmNewBlacksmurf wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »It's BS only because they literally told everyone that subs would be optional and that you could choose to sub, choose to pay or choose to miss-out. Now it's sub only which is no longer Tamriel Unlimited.
You don't have to sub. Subs are still optional.
@GivvumBoane Actually you are required to sub in order to gain access to this base game update.
There is no way around getting this "base game update" unless you sub.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »It's BS only because they literally told everyone that subs would be optional and that you could choose to sub, choose to pay or choose to miss-out. Now it's sub only which is no longer Tamriel Unlimited.
Uh no you are wrong.
Unless you are a crafter the crafting bag is worthless to you.
Paying a sub is 100% optional, nobody is forcing you to pay a sub. You can buy crowns and get the DLC without paying the sub if you want.
@mr.hmm
See above and also refer to the locked thread on this topic
My comments are there and are accurate as detailed
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3014548/#Comment_3014548
It was know that the Craft Bags were going to be ESO+ Exclusive.
But everything else seems to be free since they have been added to the Base Game. Which brings the question:
Where exactly do you see that you are forced to pay for ESO+?
I am a bit confused on that.
The only things that are away from reach are the DLC if you dont own them or dont have an active ESO+ sub.
In response: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3024172/#Comment_3024172
"Extended Inventory for Crafters (Craft Bag)
ESO Plus members will now receive access to an extended inventory for crafters (Craft Bag.)
The Craft Bag is an additional inventory section which does not count against your inventory limit, is shared across all characters on your account, and can hold an effectively unlimited number of all basic crafting supplies.
If your membership expires, you will still have access to the resources stored in your Craft Bag, but you will be unable to add any new materials to it."
Notice their patch notes and the announcement article detail that is Base Game Patch update feature is exclusive to ESO Plus subscribers. This is the definition of an ESO Plus requirement to access a base game patch feature.
It's not DLC which contradicts with the Tamriel Unlimited announcement and info where they suggest that current and future base game patch updates will be included in Tamriel Unlimited purchase without the requirement of a subscription.
It's also on the box
Ah so that's what you mean.
Well yes it does contradict with the Tamriel Unlimited Announcement however since the Crafting Bag is not exclusive to DLC in a way it doesnt.
I think its a bit of a middle ground/gray area over there.Edited by Mr.Hmm on June 1, 2016 3:13AMIf I die tomorrow I do not want to think of the game I could of played today, therefor I will play whatever I want today while securing a future to play in as well.
A true gamer will think of all the possible outcomes and execute the one that is the hardest to accomplish.0 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »Oh ok ... Now here's my question to that option. Why would anybody want to buy the DLC when it doesn't really belong to you? I understand getting vanity items to enjoy the experience playing, but actually separately buying something that can be acquired in bulk for a lower price, just makes more sense. Case in point, the purchase of any DLC will be pointless without the server, and ends up being a waste of money. As long as they own the catalyst to these DLCs, you don't really own anything.
I pay the sub of $14.99 for access to content - not ownership.
ZOS is the one that choose to go buy to play @Ethromelb14_ESO and I pretty much begged them for better benefits. They didn't deliver, so I canceled my sub because the benefits given didn't justify paying a monthly sub. I'd rather pay for DLC I wanted, when I wanted. ZOS chose to change the payment model and I just followed their lead. I have still given them money and I have still supported the game, but now, because I'm not a subscriber, my inventory is not improved even though an improvement is available.
ZOS set up this Buy2Play method so that the subscription would not be required to play ESO and while crafting bags aren't "required" to play ESO inventory is a source of contention for many players. It's something we have been asking for improvements to for a very long time.
To me it's like if we placed the more effective grouping tool behind ESO+ or released a lag free Cyrodiil behind ESO+. Neither of those would make the game players play NOW worse... but they are fixes to the game that players have been asking for, that could be ESO+ "perks".
I may not always play ESO... I may leave and come back and if I do, it's nice knowing that I can play the DLC I've paid for without having to shell out more money. ZOS has set up the Buy2Play model so players can pay this way if they so desire.
So now that we've established that there are two methods to pay for this game.... something I'm surprised we needed to discuss in the first place...
... let's move on to the actual question...
What about everyone who has already paid to have permanent access to EVERYTHING (through the Buy2Play payment method)? What about them @Ethromelb14_ESO ?
What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!3 -
SwaminoNowlino✭✭✭✭✭Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »Oh ok ... Now here's my question to that option. Why would anybody want to buy the DLC when it doesn't really belong to you? I understand getting vanity items to enjoy the experience playing, but actually separately buying something that can be acquired in bulk for a lower price, just makes more sense. Case in point, the purchase of any DLC will be pointless without the server, and ends up being a waste of money. As long as they own the catalyst to these DLCs, you don't really own anything.
I pay the sub of $14.99 for access to content - not ownership.
ZOS is the one that choose to go buy to play @Ethromelb14_ESO and I pretty much begged them for better benefits. They didn't deliver, so I canceled my sub because the benefits given didn't justify paying a monthly sub. I'd rather pay for DLC I wanted, when I wanted. ZOS chose to change the payment model and I just followed their lead. I have still given them money and I have still supported the game, but now, because I'm not a subscriber, my inventory is not improved even though an improvement is available.
ZOS set up this Buy2Play method so that the subscription would not be required to play ESO and while crafting bags aren't "required" to play ESO inventory is a source of contention for many players. It's something we have been asking for improvements to for a very long time.
To me it's like if we placed the more effective grouping tool behind ESO+ or released a lag free Cyrodiil behind ESO+. Neither of those would make the game players play NOW worse... but they are fixes to the game that players have been asking for, that could be ESO+ "perks".
I may not always play ESO... I may leave and come back and if I do, it's nice knowing that I can play the DLC I've paid for without having to shell out more money. ZOS has set up the Buy2Play model so players can pay this way if they so desire.
So now that we've established that there are two methods to pay for this game.... something I'm surprised we needed to discuss in the first place... ... let's move on to the actual question...
What about everyone who has already paid to have permanent access to EVERYTHING (through the Buy2Play payment method)? What about them @Ethromelb14_ESO ?
Sunk cost.
In traditional microeconomic theory, only prospective (future) costs are relevant to an investment decision. Traditional economics proposes that economic actors should not let sunk costs influence their decisions. Doing so would not be rationally assessing a decision exclusively on its own merits.Edited by SwaminoNowlino on June 1, 2016 3:26AMXbox NA : CP 160 StamPlar, MagNB, MagSorc, StamSorc, StamDK, StamNB, Level 10 MagDK & MagPlar, StamWarden, MagWarden
"We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of combat to feel awesome." - The Balance Lord Wrobel
- And now it sure does, better learn how to bash folks!
I get by with a little help from logic.4 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Smileybones
Here is the point per their own wording
"Mobile-friendly - May 7, 2016 - The base-game patch will be available to everyone who owns The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited, and the DLC ..."
the DLC is either required via crown store or ESO Plus and that's fine. It's also a good decision to enhance the base game features so adding unlimited crafting bags is good.
My problem is, over and over again since ESO Plus came just before Imperial City, the base game patch then updated the inventory and mount capacity. That wasn't exclusive to ESO plus so they are going against their word and written content as well as verbally shared info
That's all I'm saying.
No one can argue that it's not a base game patch update feature or that the quoted isn't their own writings.
Edited by NewBlacksmurf on June 1, 2016 3:36AM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »The dilemma you speak of is the same problem many had with DCUO. In DCUO, unless you remained legendary through subbing, you lost access to your unlimited money capacity. Going premium left you with an escrow of your surplus cash. Subbing is supporting in their eyes. That choice of purchase is a one time deal. It does not govern all aspects of the game.
Think of it this way. A sub is like a contract, whereas, the payment you've made was for the DLC and nothing more. You are refusing to get in to a "contract" with ZoS, and lets be honest ... big brother companies are all about contracts. I'm not saying it makes sense - I'm just saying that's how they think.
So the craft bag is a gift to contractual supporters of the game. The developing company prefers subs over single purchases. I hope that was clear.
So you're just making up definition of the different payment models as we go along to suit your needs @Ethromelb14_ESO ? It doesn't work that way. Besides, there is no contract between players and companies because a contract is an agreement two parties agree on and then both parties must comply with the terms in that agreement. ZOS changes the terms as they see fit and in whichever way benefits them the most. ESO+ is NOT a contract. It's a service. There is a difference.
Many people on this thread have shows how the messaging of the ESO+ crafting bags go against the message of ESO+ that ZOS has presented in the past regarding the Buy2Play model.
Call the ESO+ crafting bag a "perk" a "gift" a "loyalty bonus"... I'll call it how I see it: an ESO+ benefit that has no similar offering outside of ESO+.
What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!2 -
vyrusb23✭✭✭✭✭So Zenimax... what the hell man? I don't mind being charged for DLC, hell I'd even buy the damn bag on the Crown Store but NOOOOO you just had to throw it behind a sub wall. The one thing I was absolutely looking forward to in this patch and you kept it from me....
This has been known for .... I don't know .... A LONG TIME. You don't read much, do you?1 -
Ethromelb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »Oh ok ... Now here's my question to that option. Why would anybody want to buy the DLC when it doesn't really belong to you? I understand getting vanity items to enjoy the experience playing, but actually separately buying something that can be acquired in bulk for a lower price, just makes more sense. Case in point, the purchase of any DLC will be pointless without the server, and ends up being a waste of money. As long as they own the catalyst to these DLCs, you don't really own anything.
I pay the sub of $14.99 for access to content - not ownership.
ZOS is the one that choose to go buy to play @Ethromelb14_ESO and I pretty much begged them for better benefits. They didn't deliver, so I canceled my sub because the benefits given didn't justify paying a monthly sub. I'd rather pay for DLC I wanted, when I wanted. ZOS chose to change the payment model and I just followed their lead. I have still given them money and I have still supported the game, but now, because I'm not a subscriber, my inventory is not improved even though an improvement is available.
ZOS set up this Buy2Play method so that the subscription would not be required to play ESO and while crafting bags aren't "required" to play ESO inventory is a source of contention for many players. It's something we have been asking for improvements to for a very long time.
To me it's like if we placed the more effective grouping tool behind ESO+ or released a lag free Cyrodiil behind ESO+. Neither of those would make the game players play NOW worse... but they are fixes to the game that players have been asking for, that could be ESO+ "perks".
I may not always play ESO... I may leave and come back and if I do, it's nice knowing that I can play the DLC I've paid for without having to shell out more money. ZOS has set up the Buy2Play model so players can pay this way if they so desire.
So now that we've established that there are two methods to pay for this game.... something I'm surprised we needed to discuss in the first place... ... let's move on to the actual question...
What about everyone who has already paid to have permanent access to EVERYTHING (through the Buy2Play payment method)? What about them @Ethromelb14_ESO ?
Hey brotha, listen, I understand your dissatisfaction. However, there is a problem with something you keep saying, and I quote " What about everyone who has already paid to have permanent access to EVERYTHING ...". You are mistaken believing this. You perma-pay does not govern everything. It only entails the DLC, and the perks therein.
The illusion of choice does not offer a guarantee of equal benefit through the results that come from it. You chose the payment style that was comfortable for you, and you are now finding that it's not conducive for all things that you desire.
Your complaint will not change the options. The only thing that can effectively change is your payment decision, and acceptance of the benefits that result from it. So what will you choose, now that you know that buying is not getting you what you want?
Again, I am not saying I agree with their marketing strategies, but this is what the situation is.Motto: Make deceivers believers.
Strength of character is not a physical thing. -EWalking a mile in someone else's shoes, has nothing to do with the path taken. -E
An accusation of elitism, is an indirect recognition of one's own inferiority. -E
The best way to prove someone wrong, is to do better yourself. -E
I keep forgetting to remember to get a photographic memory.3 -
Mr.Hmm✭✭✭✭
I believe it means:NewBlacksmurf wrote: »@Smileybones
Here is the point per their own wording
"Mobile-friendly - May 7, 2016 - The base-game patch will be available to everyone who owns The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited, and the DLC ..."
the DLC is either required via crown store or ESO Plus and that's fine. It's also a good decision to enhance the base game features so adding unlimited crafting bags is good.
My problem is, over and over again since ESO Plus came just before Imperial City, the base game patch then updated the inventory and mount capacity. That wasn't exclusive to ESO plus so they are going against their word and written content as well as verbally shared info
That's all I'm saying.
No one can argue that it's not a base game patch update feature or that the quoted isn't their own writings.
The base game patch will be available to the people who own both ESO+DLC or ESO. The DLC are in no way required in order to have the base-game patch.
Base-Game patch = ESO only, no need for DLC.
DLC-Patch = DLC only, you need the DLC required for the patch.(You still have to download it however in case you decide in the future to buy the DLC or sub for ESO+)
Maybe you are misinterpreting the words written?
I dont think reading the patch notes from the mobile is a good idea because it will be hard to read/understand them, but that's your choice.If I die tomorrow I do not want to think of the game I could of played today, therefor I will play whatever I want today while securing a future to play in as well.
A true gamer will think of all the possible outcomes and execute the one that is the hardest to accomplish.2 -
Ethromelb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »The dilemma you speak of is the same problem many had with DCUO. In DCUO, unless you remained legendary through subbing, you lost access to your unlimited money capacity. Going premium left you with an escrow of your surplus cash. Subbing is supporting in their eyes. That choice of purchase is a one time deal. It does not govern all aspects of the game.
Think of it this way. A sub is like a contract, whereas, the payment you've made was for the DLC and nothing more. You are refusing to get in to a "contract" with ZoS, and lets be honest ... big brother companies are all about contracts. I'm not saying it makes sense - I'm just saying that's how they think.
So the craft bag is a gift to contractual supporters of the game. The developing company prefers subs over single purchases. I hope that was clear.
So you're just making up definition of the different payment models as we go along to suit your needs @Ethromelb14_ESO ? It doesn't work that way. Besides, there is no contract between players and companies because a contract is an agreement two parties agree on and then both parties must comply with the terms in that agreement. ZOS changes the terms as they see fit and in whichever way benefits them the most. ESO+ is NOT a contract. It's a service. There is a difference.
Many people on this thread have shows how the messaging of the ESO+ crafting bags go against the message of ESO+ that ZOS has presented in the past regarding the Buy2Play model.
Call the ESO+ crafting bag a "perk" a "gift" a "loyalty bonus"... I'll call it how I see it: an ESO+ benefit that has no similar offering outside of ESO+.
Understand this ... I didn't make the system. Furthermore, my "definition" is not intended to be taken literally. The example is just an adaptation to something I thought you might understand, but apparently you're too angry to listen to logic.
You can hoot and holler all you want. At the end of the day your still sitting at you keyboard female dogging about how it's not fair. You can remain that way, bounce from the game all together, or change you payment decision. Your lose or gain. I personally don't give a damn.
The best of luck to you and your imaginary view of how the company should work. I'll be moving on to a new thread a little less emotional.Motto: Make deceivers believers.
Strength of character is not a physical thing. -EWalking a mile in someone else's shoes, has nothing to do with the path taken. -E
An accusation of elitism, is an indirect recognition of one's own inferiority. -E
The best way to prove someone wrong, is to do better yourself. -E
I keep forgetting to remember to get a photographic memory.1 -
Vangy✭✭✭✭✭
✭C. bags for subs... Time to let this dead horse RIP. Staph beating on it guys. Dosent really matter if its in the base patch or Perk or whatever you want to call it. Time to go read TOS if you think you can enforce moral rights or invoke things like oh I already paid for DLC so I dont want to sub arguments. Here's a little excerpt:
Once You have redeemed Downloadable Content, that Content is not returnable, exchangeable, or refundable for other Content or for cash, other goods or services unless approved by ZeniMax or required by applicable law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1); for example, if ZeniMax downloaded the wrong Content to You, You may be entitled to a refund. Unless otherwise specified by ZeniMax in writing and unless otherwise prohibited by applicable law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), Downloadable Content may expire upon the earlier of (a) the closure of an Account, or (b) the later of one hundred and eighty (180) days past (i) the most recent Account login by You or (ii) the end of Your subscription or membership for the applicable Service if such subscription or membership is not renewed.
You agree that You have no ownership right or title in or to any such Downloadable Content, including, but not limited to, the virtual goods appearing or originating in the Services (such as a Game) or any other attributes associated with any Account or Services. ZeniMax does not recognize any purported transfers of virtual property executed outside of the Game, or the purported sale, gift or trade in the “real world” of anything that appears or originates in a Service or a Game. Accordingly, You may not sell, and You may not assist others in selling, Service(s) or in-Game items for real currency, or exchange those items for value outside of the Services. Evidence of any attempt to redeem Downloadable Content for a purported exchange, sale, gift or trade in the “real world” will result in the immediate suspension or termination of Your Account.
You acknowledge and agree that all virtual items represent a limited license right for Your personal, private, non-commercial, non-transferable, and limited use governed by these Terms of Service and are not redeemable for any sum of money or monetary value from ZeniMax at any time. ZeniMax reserves the right to refuse Your request(s) to acquire Downloadable Content, and reserves the right to limit or block any request to acquire Downloadable Content for any or no reason.
TLDR: ZOS can do whatever the heck they want. Time to deal......(2)V16 Dk- stam dps/stam tank/mag dps
(2)V16 Sorc- mag dps/stam dps
(2)V16 nb- stam dps/mag dps
(1)v16 temp- mag tank/mag dps
CP: 610 and counting
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates! Viva la revolutionz5
This discussion has been closed.