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Make Stage 4 Vampires and turned WW's KOS by town guards
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AverageJo3Gam3r✭✭✭✭✭So how would that work in cyrodiil? Vamps and WW never defend keeps or enter the sewers? No thank you. Dumb idea.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It always bothered me with the Justice System how stage 4 vampires and turned Werewolves could walk around blatantly in town without alerting the guards. The change on the PTS is that all stages last 6 hours now. So, this would give vampire players plenty of time to get to stages 1 or 2 before they go to town to hide their nature from the guards.
If you're actually using your abilities you can burn through all four stages very quickly.0 -
Kendaric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »So how would that work in cyrodiil? Vamps and WW never defend keeps or enter the sewers? No thank you. Dumb idea.
It would be disabled while in Cyrodiil/IC, just like your bounty doesn't cause guards to attack there (at least I don't think they attack...).
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TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, we are talking about justice guards here, not the cyrodil PvP guards.
Coldharbour is also still a lawless place where anyone can go without worry, be they thief or monster, murderer or bloodsucker...0 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
1) This isn't Skyrim. Leave that crap at the door.It always bothered me with the Justice System how stage 4 vampires and turned Werewolves could walk around blatantly in town without alerting the guards. The change on the PTS is that all stages last 6 hours now. So, this would give vampire players plenty of time to get to stages 1 to 3 before they go to town to hide their nature from the guards. Then, of course, werewolves that are transformed should be KOS as well. That is a no brainer. I thought I remember it working something like this in past ES games. I'm a vampire myself and I would welcome this change, it would be great for immersion. It plays well with the theme of the vampires and werewolves having to hide their nature. It might also deter those players who don't want to be bothered to manage their stages from becoming a vampire.
2) Guards having a "Kill on Sight" mentality for Stage 4 Vamps and turned Werewolves would be fine, if they change the Guards so that they can be killed.
3) Your "mursion" means crap if it ruins the game (or even just the ability to enter any/all towns for Vamps and Werewolves) for the majority of other players.
4) Why do you feel its OK to force other players to play exactly the same way that you do? Wouldn't that kill their "immersion"? Don't be a hypocrite.
5) Have a great day.
Edited by Uriel_Nocturne on May 31, 2016 1:02PM
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!3 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It always bothered me with the Justice System how stage 4 vampires and turned Werewolves could walk around blatantly in town without alerting the guards. The change on the PTS is that all stages last 6 hours now. So, this would give vampire players plenty of time to get to stages 1 to 3 before they go to town to hide their nature from the guards. Then, of course, werewolves that are transformed should be KOS as well. That is a no brainer. I thought I remember it working something like this in past ES games. I'm a vampire myself and I would welcome this change, it would be great for immersion. It plays well with the theme of the vampires and werewolves having to hide their nature. It might also deter those players who don't want to be bothered to manage their stages from becoming a vampire.
You still haven't finished the DC story lines? Vampires aren't kos.
Stage 4 become stage 4 because they aren't feeding. So you want the guards to attack the vampires that aren't feeding on humans?
WW might make sense, especially since it takes no effort to not take WW form.1 -
Lokryn✭✭✭✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »It always bothered me with the Justice System how stage 4 vampires and turned Werewolves could walk around blatantly in town without alerting the guards. The change on the PTS is that all stages last 6 hours now. So, this would give vampire players plenty of time to get to stages 1 to 3 before they go to town to hide their nature from the guards. Then, of course, werewolves that are transformed should be KOS as well. That is a no brainer. I thought I remember it working something like this in past ES games. I'm a vampire myself and I would welcome this change, it would be great for immersion. It plays well with the theme of the vampires and werewolves having to hide their nature. It might also deter those players who don't want to be bothered to manage their stages from becoming a vampire.
You still haven't finished the DC story lines? Vampires aren't kos.
Stage 4 become stage 4 because they aren't feeding. So you want the guards to attack the vampires that aren't feeding on humans?
WW might make sense, especially since it takes no effort to not take WW form.
Because at Stage 4, your appearance makes it obvious you are a vampire.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »It always bothered me with the Justice System how stage 4 vampires and turned Werewolves could walk around blatantly in town without alerting the guards. The change on the PTS is that all stages last 6 hours now. So, this would give vampire players plenty of time to get to stages 1 to 3 before they go to town to hide their nature from the guards. Then, of course, werewolves that are transformed should be KOS as well. That is a no brainer. I thought I remember it working something like this in past ES games. I'm a vampire myself and I would welcome this change, it would be great for immersion. It plays well with the theme of the vampires and werewolves having to hide their nature. It might also deter those players who don't want to be bothered to manage their stages from becoming a vampire.
You still haven't finished the DC story lines? Vampires aren't kos.
Stage 4 become stage 4 because they aren't feeding. So you want the guards to attack the vampires that aren't feeding on humans?
WW might make sense, especially since it takes no effort to not take WW form.
Because at Stage 4, your appearance makes it obvious you are a vampire.
In ESO, at Stage 1, your appearance makes it obvious you are a vampire. This logic doesn't go very far.
Also, as someone who has accidentally fired off a werewolf transform in town, it would apply a kill on sight situation for having your fingers one space off on the keyboard. That's... a little extreme.1 -
Lokryn✭✭✭✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
1) This isn't Skyrim. Leave that crap at the door.It always bothered me with the Justice System how stage 4 vampires and turned Werewolves could walk around blatantly in town without alerting the guards. The change on the PTS is that all stages last 6 hours now. So, this would give vampire players plenty of time to get to stages 1 to 3 before they go to town to hide their nature from the guards. Then, of course, werewolves that are transformed should be KOS as well. That is a no brainer. I thought I remember it working something like this in past ES games. I'm a vampire myself and I would welcome this change, it would be great for immersion. It plays well with the theme of the vampires and werewolves having to hide their nature. It might also deter those players who don't want to be bothered to manage their stages from becoming a vampire.
2) Guards having a "Kill on Sight" mentality for Stage 4 Vamps and turned Werewolves would be fine, if they change the Guards so that they can be killed.
3) Your "mursion" means crap if it ruins the game (or even just the ability to enter any/all towns for Vamps and Werewolves) for the majority of other players.
4) Why do you feel its OK to force other players to play exactly the same way that you do? Wouldn't that kill their "immersion"? Don't be a hypocrite.
5) Have a great day.
1) I just mentioned past ES games to show there's precedent.
2) I wouldn't mind that.
3) It wouldn't be very difficult to stay in stages 1 to 3 or not turn into a Werewolf. With a vamp, all you have to do is feed 1 time and then you have 6 hours.
4) Again, it's one feeding before going into town. The goal of my suggestion is to make vampires and werewolves outcasts as they should be.
5) Thanks. You too.1 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
You clicked through the dialouge, didn't you?DaveMoeDee wrote: »You still haven't finished the DC story lines? Vampires aren't kos...
If you listen, you find that pretty much -everyone- considered them monsters that Must be killed in Arkays name... even if its their little sister. Yes, they can be of two minds about this... and turn to the player to make the decision.
Of course, here we get into the next fluff dissonance... that a players vampire status (if present) is never ever remarked upon. My sucky character walked up to vampire hunters, and they invited her for a bit of vampire hunting instead of vampire hunting her... would have been nifty if such character status actually -meant- something in-game.
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Clerics1985✭✭✭This just in, Community wants Sandbox PVP server, with JUSTIC SYSTEM!!!!!!
Still!!!!! /signed and voted0 -
Lokryn✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »DaveMoeDee wrote: »It always bothered me with the Justice System how stage 4 vampires and turned Werewolves could walk around blatantly in town without alerting the guards. The change on the PTS is that all stages last 6 hours now. So, this would give vampire players plenty of time to get to stages 1 to 3 before they go to town to hide their nature from the guards. Then, of course, werewolves that are transformed should be KOS as well. That is a no brainer. I thought I remember it working something like this in past ES games. I'm a vampire myself and I would welcome this change, it would be great for immersion. It plays well with the theme of the vampires and werewolves having to hide their nature. It might also deter those players who don't want to be bothered to manage their stages from becoming a vampire.
You still haven't finished the DC story lines? Vampires aren't kos.
Stage 4 become stage 4 because they aren't feeding. So you want the guards to attack the vampires that aren't feeding on humans?
WW might make sense, especially since it takes no effort to not take WW form.
Because at Stage 4, your appearance makes it obvious you are a vampire.
In ESO, at Stage 1, your appearance makes it obvious you are a vampire. This logic doesn't go very far.
Also, as someone who has accidentally fired off a werewolf transform in town, it would apply a kill on sight situation for having your fingers one space off on the keyboard. That's... a little extreme.
I don't disagree. But I would say there's a fairly big difference between 1 and 4.1 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
1) That precedent is invalidated as of the Dawnguard DLC for Skyrim. Vampires of any stage don't get attacked by guards until they shift into Vampire Lord form. Thus, your precedent has been nullified.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
1) This isn't Skyrim. Leave that crap at the door.It always bothered me with the Justice System how stage 4 vampires and turned Werewolves could walk around blatantly in town without alerting the guards. The change on the PTS is that all stages last 6 hours now. So, this would give vampire players plenty of time to get to stages 1 to 3 before they go to town to hide their nature from the guards. Then, of course, werewolves that are transformed should be KOS as well. That is a no brainer. I thought I remember it working something like this in past ES games. I'm a vampire myself and I would welcome this change, it would be great for immersion. It plays well with the theme of the vampires and werewolves having to hide their nature. It might also deter those players who don't want to be bothered to manage their stages from becoming a vampire.
2) Guards having a "Kill on Sight" mentality for Stage 4 Vamps and turned Werewolves would be fine, if they change the Guards so that they can be killed.
3) Your "mursion" means crap if it ruins the game (or even just the ability to enter any/all towns for Vamps and Werewolves) for the majority of other players.
4) Why do you feel its OK to force other players to play exactly the same way that you do? Wouldn't that kill their "immersion"? Don't be a hypocrite.
5) Have a great day.
1) I just mentioned past ES games to show there's precedent.
2) I wouldn't mind that.
3) It wouldn't be very difficult to stay in stages 1 to 3 or not turn into a Werewolf. With a vamp, all you have to do is feed 1 time and then you have 6 hours.
4) Again, it's one feeding before going into town. The goal of my suggestion is to make vampires and werewolves outcasts as they should be.
5) Thanks. You too.
2) It would be the only way to give Vamps/WW's any kind of fighting chance, especially since unkillable guards also patrol the major roads out in the wild. If your idea were to happen, there would be literally nowhere that a Vamp/WW could go without getting slaughtered by the constabulary.
3) Still not cool to fix your"mursion" by ruining the game play for the majority of other people who run Vamps or Werewolves.
4) See #3. Why must everyone elses game be subject to your whims? Why must they be forced to play as you play? Wouldn't Vampires who refuse to feed on the populace be preferable to Vamps who feed regularly just to buy a new sword?
5) I hope I will.
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!1 -
Dev✭✭✭✭just no....
your immersion, belief of lore or whatever should not ruin other people's game play.
If lore is soooo important think of it this way:
An evil daedra is trying to suck the world into another realm, the leaders of the other nations are all trying to claim the land, there are monsters & enemy factions actively attacking the cities, and you want the guards to attack the one person trying to save them?
seriously, one would think that the guards have enough to worry about as is.1 -
Lokryn✭✭✭✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
1) That precedent is invalidated as of the Dawnguard DLC for Skyrim. Vampires of any stage don't get attacked by guards until they shift into Vampire Lord form. Thus, your precedent has been nullified.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
1) This isn't Skyrim. Leave that crap at the door.It always bothered me with the Justice System how stage 4 vampires and turned Werewolves could walk around blatantly in town without alerting the guards. The change on the PTS is that all stages last 6 hours now. So, this would give vampire players plenty of time to get to stages 1 to 3 before they go to town to hide their nature from the guards. Then, of course, werewolves that are transformed should be KOS as well. That is a no brainer. I thought I remember it working something like this in past ES games. I'm a vampire myself and I would welcome this change, it would be great for immersion. It plays well with the theme of the vampires and werewolves having to hide their nature. It might also deter those players who don't want to be bothered to manage their stages from becoming a vampire.
2) Guards having a "Kill on Sight" mentality for Stage 4 Vamps and turned Werewolves would be fine, if they change the Guards so that they can be killed.
3) Your "mursion" means crap if it ruins the game (or even just the ability to enter any/all towns for Vamps and Werewolves) for the majority of other players.
4) Why do you feel its OK to force other players to play exactly the same way that you do? Wouldn't that kill their "immersion"? Don't be a hypocrite.
5) Have a great day.
1) I just mentioned past ES games to show there's precedent.
2) I wouldn't mind that.
3) It wouldn't be very difficult to stay in stages 1 to 3 or not turn into a Werewolf. With a vamp, all you have to do is feed 1 time and then you have 6 hours.
4) Again, it's one feeding before going into town. The goal of my suggestion is to make vampires and werewolves outcasts as they should be.
5) Thanks. You too.
2) It would be the only way to give Vamps/WW's any kind of fighting chance, especially since unkillable guards also patrol the major roads out in the wild. If your idea were to happen, there would be literally nowhere that a Vamp/WW could go without getting slaughtered by the constabulary.
3) Still not cool to fix your"mursion" by ruining the game play for the majority of other people who run Vamps or Werewolves.
4) See #3. Why must everyone elses game be subject to your whims? Why must they be forced to play as you play? Wouldn't Vampires who refuse to feed on the populace be preferable to Vamps who feed regularly just to buy a new sword?
5) I hope I will.
1) Just because one of the ES games handled it differently doesn't mean there's no precedent.
2) "If your idea were to happen, there would be literally nowhere that a Vamp/WW could go without getting slaughtered by the constabulary." Which sounds awesome. But, you're exaggerating, we're only talking about stage 4 and turned WW. Not those who manage their condition responsibly.
3) Fine. If people really feel that strongly about it, make the option where you don't accidentally kill innocents also allow you to opt out of this. Just rename it to Justice System Opt Out or something. Or two separate options. Whatever works.Edited by Lokryn on May 31, 2016 1:40PM1 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭1) This may not by Skyrim, but its still TES. Let's open the door and take a look... Precedent exists for both options - ignore or get stabby. Thus the "look the other way until its definitely a monster" idea is a pretty good one I'd think...
2) I can see why killable guards would be iffy. But the whole thing is a non-issue since both vampires and werewolves could easily avoid the negative effect... its just like thieves can avoid the negative issues of gaining the guards attention by not stealing when someone is looking.
3) Immersion is not "play my way", it means creating a believeble illusion within the logic of the game world. And it is neither "ruining the game" nor "being unable to go anywhere" - all the woofies have to do is not go furry under the watchful eyes of the guard, all the suckers have to do is take a sip before going into town. I really see no difficulty here...
4) again, immersion is NOT "play it my way", its the believable illusion. And considering the fluff between NPC vampires and werewolves... the "kill the monster" approach is pretty well established, with a few notable exceptions (being the friend of the high king has its perks, I presume), so vampires and werewolves who flaunt their "unnatural" status getting killed on sight IS immersion. And when its done in a way that is easily avoidable... it is also bo biggie.
5) Why do these appearant well-wishings somehow read like they mean something entirely different then what they say?
Uhm... vampires all too often end up as footsoldiers in Molag Bals schemes... so... that is actually another reason for guards to KoS vampy players. And werewolves are just treated like a rabid dog because... well... lycantropy.An evil daedra is trying to suck the world into another realm, the leaders of the other nations are all trying to claim the land, there are monsters & enemy factions actively attacking the cities, and you want the guards to attack the one person trying to save them?...
And that is why in all the stories, they like to keep their natures hidden.0 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
1) So, when ESO is the "one Elder Scrolls game" that handles it differently, that in itself kills any precedent set by previous Elder Scrolls games.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
1) That precedent is invalidated as of the Dawnguard DLC for Skyrim. Vampires of any stage don't get attacked by guards until they shift into Vampire Lord form. Thus, your precedent has been nullified.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
1) This isn't Skyrim. Leave that crap at the door.It always bothered me with the Justice System how stage 4 vampires and turned Werewolves could walk around blatantly in town without alerting the guards. The change on the PTS is that all stages last 6 hours now. So, this would give vampire players plenty of time to get to stages 1 to 3 before they go to town to hide their nature from the guards. Then, of course, werewolves that are transformed should be KOS as well. That is a no brainer. I thought I remember it working something like this in past ES games. I'm a vampire myself and I would welcome this change, it would be great for immersion. It plays well with the theme of the vampires and werewolves having to hide their nature. It might also deter those players who don't want to be bothered to manage their stages from becoming a vampire.
2) Guards having a "Kill on Sight" mentality for Stage 4 Vamps and turned Werewolves would be fine, if they change the Guards so that they can be killed.
3) Your "mursion" means crap if it ruins the game (or even just the ability to enter any/all towns for Vamps and Werewolves) for the majority of other players.
4) Why do you feel its OK to force other players to play exactly the same way that you do? Wouldn't that kill their "immersion"? Don't be a hypocrite.
5) Have a great day.
1) I just mentioned past ES games to show there's precedent.
2) I wouldn't mind that.
3) It wouldn't be very difficult to stay in stages 1 to 3 or not turn into a Werewolf. With a vamp, all you have to do is feed 1 time and then you have 6 hours.
4) Again, it's one feeding before going into town. The goal of my suggestion is to make vampires and werewolves outcasts as they should be.
5) Thanks. You too.
2) It would be the only way to give Vamps/WW's any kind of fighting chance, especially since unkillable guards also patrol the major roads out in the wild. If your idea were to happen, there would be literally nowhere that a Vamp/WW could go without getting slaughtered by the constabulary.
3) Still not cool to fix your"mursion" by ruining the game play for the majority of other people who run Vamps or Werewolves.
4) See #3. Why must everyone elses game be subject to your whims? Why must they be forced to play as you play? Wouldn't Vampires who refuse to feed on the populace be preferable to Vamps who feed regularly just to buy a new sword?
5) I hope I will.
1) Just because one of the ES games handled it differently doesn't mean there's no precedent.
2) "If your idea were to happen, there would be literally nowhere that a Vamp/WW could go without getting slaughtered by the constabulary." Which sounds awesome. But, you're exaggerating, we're only talking about stage 4 and turned WW. Not those who manage their condition responsibly.
3) Fine. If people really feel that strongly about it, make the option where you don't accidentally kill innocents also allow you to opt out of this. Just rename it to Justice System Opt Out or something. Or two separate options. Whatever works.
2) "Which sounds awesome" to you and you alone. I am not exaggerating. Given the Guards' area of aggro for violent offenders, you'd have all of five minutes of running through the wilderness before a roaming Guard chases you down and puts a hurt on you. That sounds like the opposite of "fun" to me. It also brings us back to the question of which is preferable; a Vamp who regularly feeds/kills the NPC populace just to do some shopping? Or a Vamp who eschews their base instinct for blood, and refuses to feed from the innocent? I'll take the latter any day of the week. They might look more monsterous, but I at least know that someone didn't get eaten for the vamps vanity...
3) An "opt out" is also a horrible option that still forces the base game to adhere to your specific vision of how Vamps and Werewolves "should be played". The Needs of the Many, far outweigh the Needs of the Few/One. the ease of game play for the majority of people running Vamps/WW's far outweighs your "immersion".
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don't like this idea, but the current disadvantages to being a vampire or lycanthrope are ridiculously weak.
If there's no reason to remain human then nobody will be, it needs to be balanced.0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't like this idea, but the current disadvantages to being a vampire or lycanthrope are ridiculously weak.
If there's no reason to remain human then nobody will be, it needs to be balanced.
25% psn/fire dmg + 20% extra dmg from fighters guild, including dawnbreaker which almost all stamina builds will run.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Lokryn✭✭✭✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
1) So, when ESO is the "one Elder Scrolls game" that handles it differently, that in itself kills any precedent set by previous Elder Scrolls games.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
1) That precedent is invalidated as of the Dawnguard DLC for Skyrim. Vampires of any stage don't get attacked by guards until they shift into Vampire Lord form. Thus, your precedent has been nullified.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
1) This isn't Skyrim. Leave that crap at the door.It always bothered me with the Justice System how stage 4 vampires and turned Werewolves could walk around blatantly in town without alerting the guards. The change on the PTS is that all stages last 6 hours now. So, this would give vampire players plenty of time to get to stages 1 to 3 before they go to town to hide their nature from the guards. Then, of course, werewolves that are transformed should be KOS as well. That is a no brainer. I thought I remember it working something like this in past ES games. I'm a vampire myself and I would welcome this change, it would be great for immersion. It plays well with the theme of the vampires and werewolves having to hide their nature. It might also deter those players who don't want to be bothered to manage their stages from becoming a vampire.
2) Guards having a "Kill on Sight" mentality for Stage 4 Vamps and turned Werewolves would be fine, if they change the Guards so that they can be killed.
3) Your "mursion" means crap if it ruins the game (or even just the ability to enter any/all towns for Vamps and Werewolves) for the majority of other players.
4) Why do you feel its OK to force other players to play exactly the same way that you do? Wouldn't that kill their "immersion"? Don't be a hypocrite.
5) Have a great day.
1) I just mentioned past ES games to show there's precedent.
2) I wouldn't mind that.
3) It wouldn't be very difficult to stay in stages 1 to 3 or not turn into a Werewolf. With a vamp, all you have to do is feed 1 time and then you have 6 hours.
4) Again, it's one feeding before going into town. The goal of my suggestion is to make vampires and werewolves outcasts as they should be.
5) Thanks. You too.
2) It would be the only way to give Vamps/WW's any kind of fighting chance, especially since unkillable guards also patrol the major roads out in the wild. If your idea were to happen, there would be literally nowhere that a Vamp/WW could go without getting slaughtered by the constabulary.
3) Still not cool to fix your"mursion" by ruining the game play for the majority of other people who run Vamps or Werewolves.
4) See #3. Why must everyone elses game be subject to your whims? Why must they be forced to play as you play? Wouldn't Vampires who refuse to feed on the populace be preferable to Vamps who feed regularly just to buy a new sword?
5) I hope I will.
1) Just because one of the ES games handled it differently doesn't mean there's no precedent.
2) "If your idea were to happen, there would be literally nowhere that a Vamp/WW could go without getting slaughtered by the constabulary." Which sounds awesome. But, you're exaggerating, we're only talking about stage 4 and turned WW. Not those who manage their condition responsibly.
3) Fine. If people really feel that strongly about it, make the option where you don't accidentally kill innocents also allow you to opt out of this. Just rename it to Justice System Opt Out or something. Or two separate options. Whatever works.
2) "Which sounds awesome" to you and you alone. I am not exaggerating. Given the Guards' area of aggro for violent offenders, you'd have all of five minutes of running through the wilderness before a roaming Guard chases you down and puts a hurt on you. That sounds like the opposite of "fun" to me. It also brings us back to the question of which is preferable; a Vamp who regularly feeds/kills the NPC populace just to do some shopping? Or a Vamp who eschews their base instinct for blood, and refuses to feed from the innocent? I'll take the latter any day of the week. They might look more monsterous, but I at least know that someone didn't get eaten for the vamps vanity...
3) An "opt out" is also a horrible option that still forces the base game to adhere to your specific vision of how Vamps and Werewolves "should be played". The Needs of the Many, far outweigh the Needs of the Few/One. the ease of game play for the majority of people running Vamps/WW's far outweighs your "immersion".
1) That's not how precedent works.
2) and 3) I think you're vastly underestimating the amount of people who would like my suggestion. See TheShadowScout's explanation of immersion in his last post.
Edited by Lokryn on May 31, 2016 1:58PM1 -
TieFighter✭✭✭+1 good idea OP, do it esoDa'Hui DC imperial mage dragonknight(retired but retained)
Hand Saryn Valor EP dunmer templar(mage/healer)
Pergan Asuul AD dunmer dragonknight(dps firemage)
Mi'Mosa EP imperial nightblade(stamina)
Limu'Kai EP Sahxleel dragonknight(vampire mage)1 -
Dev✭✭✭✭
Uhm... vampires all too often end up as footsoldiers in Molag Bals schemes... so... that is actually another reason for guards to KoS vampy players. [/quote]An evil daedra is trying to suck the world into another realm, the leaders of the other nations are all trying to claim the land, there are monsters & enemy factions actively attacking the cities, and you want the guards to attack the one person trying to save them?...
Well a little vamp lore to ruin a hater's day:
The player 'strain' (aka version of vamp), are the vamps against molag bal. I dont want to spoil it, but the pc vamps are actually 'good' guys more then 'bad'. (well more neutral i guess, as they hate arkay as well)
Regarding the 'scheme' angle; So because vamps get caught up in Molag's schemes, they should die? Considering that Molag Bal is the 'god of schemes', the 'deceiver' and lots of other interesting titles, it kinda is a 'duh' statement to say anyone got tricked. Also alot of the 'normal' people were manipulated into serving molag , do you really want a game where the guards kill everyone they 'suspect' is in leagues?
The real moral dilemma: Having the guards attack someone based on their race alone, and not the actions they took is wrong. Having guards attack someone for being a 'vamp' in public is no different then cops shooting someone for being <insert ethnicity here> in public. If you cant understand that, then you clearly never been a victim of racism.
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Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
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Actually; it is "play my way" when the current standard is that Vamps and Werewolves don't get attacked, but there's a minority/singular point of view/opinion that their "immersion" would be increased by changing it. The change then affect the way the majority of players currently get to enjoy the aforementioned aspect of the game. That is the very definition of "play my way", and regardless of the views of what is "immersion" or not, it would ruin being a Vamp/WW for quite a large number of people.TheShadowScout wrote: »
3) Immersion is not "play my way", it means creating a believeble illusion within the logic of the game world. And it is neither "ruining the game" nor "being unable to go anywhere" - all the woofies have to do is not go furry under the watchful eyes of the guard, all the suckers have to do is take a sip before going into town. I really see no difficulty here...
4) again, immersion is NOT "play it my way", its the believable illusion. And considering the fluff between NPC vampires and werewolves... the "kill the monster" approach is pretty well established, with a few notable exceptions (being the friend of the high king has its perks, I presume), so vampires and werewolves who flaunt their "unnatural" status getting killed on sight IS immersion. And when its done in a way that is easily avoidable... it is also bo biggie.
A further thought; just because two or so people in this thread think it would be "no big deal" to "simply feed, then go shopping", it might very much be a huge inconvenience for the rest of the community. Let's keep in mind that to feed, one must commit felonious aggravated assault against an NPC. An assault that guarantees a bounty (and not a small bounty), and rarely kills even a weak NPC. Thus, even were a player to "simply feed", they then get accosted/slaughtered by a Guard the instant they approach a town gate.
For my final point; you are correct that precedents have been made for both sides of this argument. Zenimax went for the precedent that Vamps and Werewolves don't get attacked, and people are liking it just fine. It allows more people to explore these two aspects of the game, and widens the number of viable builds for characters utilizing the various perks/disadvantages of being a Vamp or WW. To add in the threat of getting slaughtered by the constabulary just for sparing an innocent will only cause people to ditch Vamp or WW, thus constricting the possible options of viable ways to play the game. That's bad no matter what light you view it in.
And all to fix the "mursion" of a few, vast minority of players. That's the definition of arrogance and selfish behavior.
Why people cannot grasp how much of an inconvenience this would be to the majority of players just boggles the mind.
This is a horrible idea, especially in an MMO.
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!0 -
Burning_Talons✭✭✭✭✭Also, If you want your RP then let me attack anyone who commits a crime. Oh wait. PvErs would cry thats ole' Talons kill em
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leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just to sum this up.
Ww is strong - Getting buffed via fighter guild changes.
Vamp is now useful without the over the top weaknesses - Getting buffed via fighters guild changes.
Zos Sells Vamp/ww bites in crown store.
Your suggestion means less people would want to be vamp/ww which means less sales which means not going to happen.
PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
camilla_noctis✭✭✭Clearing up some facts here.TheShadowScout wrote: »But of course, then the vamps would also need to get a bit more "stage control". Longer stages certainly would be a good thing, a very good thing.
PTS (and so upcoming update) has had 6 hour stages for a while, as well as active abilities taking off 30min per use.AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »So how would that work in cyrodiil? Vamps and WW never defend keeps or enter the sewers? No thank you. Dumb idea.
@AverageJo3Gam3r
There are no justice repercussions or guards in Cyrodiil (or IC) already, at all.
Also please refrain from outright attacking ideas, and be constructive, thanks.0 -
Lokryn✭✭✭✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Actually; it is "play my way" when the current standard is that Vamps and Werewolves don't get attacked, but there's a minority/singular point of view/opinion that their "immersion" would be increased by changing it. The change then affect the way the majority of players currently get to enjoy the aforementioned aspect of the game. That is the very definition of "play my way", and regardless of the views of what is "immersion" or not, it would ruin being a Vamp/WW for quite a large number of people.TheShadowScout wrote: »
3) Immersion is not "play my way", it means creating a believeble illusion within the logic of the game world. And it is neither "ruining the game" nor "being unable to go anywhere" - all the woofies have to do is not go furry under the watchful eyes of the guard, all the suckers have to do is take a sip before going into town. I really see no difficulty here...
4) again, immersion is NOT "play it my way", its the believable illusion. And considering the fluff between NPC vampires and werewolves... the "kill the monster" approach is pretty well established, with a few notable exceptions (being the friend of the high king has its perks, I presume), so vampires and werewolves who flaunt their "unnatural" status getting killed on sight IS immersion. And when its done in a way that is easily avoidable... it is also bo biggie.
A further thought; just because two or so people in this thread think it would be "no big deal" to "simply feed, then go shopping", it might very much be a huge inconvenience for the rest of the community. Let's keep in mind that to feed, one must commit felonious aggravated assault against an NPC. An assault that guarantees a bounty (and not a small bounty), and rarely kills even a weak NPC. Thus, even were a player to "simply feed", they then get accosted/slaughtered by a Guard the instant they approach a town gate.
For my final point; you are correct that precedents have been made for both sides of this argument. Zenimax went for the precedent that Vamps and Werewolves don't get attacked, and people are liking it just fine. It allows more people to explore these two aspects of the game, and widens the number of viable builds for characters utilizing the various perks/disadvantages of being a Vamp or WW. To add in the threat of getting slaughtered by the constabulary just for sparing an innocent will only cause people to ditch Vamp or WW, thus constricting the possible options of viable ways to play the game. That's bad no matter what light you view it in.
And all to fix the "mursion" of a few, vast minority of players. That's the definition of arrogance and selfish behavior.
Why people cannot grasp how much of an inconvenience this would be to the majority of players just boggles the mind.
This is a horrible idea, especially in an MMO.
Obviously, we're not going to change your mind so we'll have to agree to disagree. I know that ZoS went with the latter precedent which is why I'm posting this suggestion. What's wrong with throwing ideas around anyway? If you don't like it, that's fine. Your arguments are noted. Thanks.
But I will say that choosing to be a vampire or WW should have consequences more than just Fire Weakness and weakness to Fighter's Guild abilities. ZoS can give players who don't want to participate easy ways to circumvent the system by either opting out or giving players blood potions. Currently, Vampires and Werewolves only feel like a skill line and not a part of the world and I think that's a problem. You obviously don't so we'll just have to disagree. Cheers.1 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
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Not a problem.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Actually; it is "play my way" when the current standard is that Vamps and Werewolves don't get attacked, but there's a minority/singular point of view/opinion that their "immersion" would be increased by changing it. The change then affect the way the majority of players currently get to enjoy the aforementioned aspect of the game. That is the very definition of "play my way", and regardless of the views of what is "immersion" or not, it would ruin being a Vamp/WW for quite a large number of people.TheShadowScout wrote: »
3) Immersion is not "play my way", it means creating a believeble illusion within the logic of the game world. And it is neither "ruining the game" nor "being unable to go anywhere" - all the woofies have to do is not go furry under the watchful eyes of the guard, all the suckers have to do is take a sip before going into town. I really see no difficulty here...
4) again, immersion is NOT "play it my way", its the believable illusion. And considering the fluff between NPC vampires and werewolves... the "kill the monster" approach is pretty well established, with a few notable exceptions (being the friend of the high king has its perks, I presume), so vampires and werewolves who flaunt their "unnatural" status getting killed on sight IS immersion. And when its done in a way that is easily avoidable... it is also bo biggie.
A further thought; just because two or so people in this thread think it would be "no big deal" to "simply feed, then go shopping", it might very much be a huge inconvenience for the rest of the community. Let's keep in mind that to feed, one must commit felonious aggravated assault against an NPC. An assault that guarantees a bounty (and not a small bounty), and rarely kills even a weak NPC. Thus, even were a player to "simply feed", they then get accosted/slaughtered by a Guard the instant they approach a town gate.
For my final point; you are correct that precedents have been made for both sides of this argument. Zenimax went for the precedent that Vamps and Werewolves don't get attacked, and people are liking it just fine. It allows more people to explore these two aspects of the game, and widens the number of viable builds for characters utilizing the various perks/disadvantages of being a Vamp or WW. To add in the threat of getting slaughtered by the constabulary just for sparing an innocent will only cause people to ditch Vamp or WW, thus constricting the possible options of viable ways to play the game. That's bad no matter what light you view it in.
And all to fix the "mursion" of a few, vast minority of players. That's the definition of arrogance and selfish behavior.
Why people cannot grasp how much of an inconvenience this would be to the majority of players just boggles the mind.
This is a horrible idea, especially in an MMO.
Obviously, we're not going to change your mind so we'll have to agree to disagree. I know that ZoS went with the latter precedent which is why I'm posting this suggestion. What's wrong with throwing ideas around anyway? If you don't like it, that's fine. Your arguments are noted. Thanks.
But I will say that choosing to be a vampire or WW should have consequences more than just Fire Weakness and weakness to Fighter's Guild abilities. ZoS can give players who don't want to participate easy ways to circumvent the system by either opting out or giving players blood potions. Currently, Vampires and Werewolves only feel like a skill line and not a part of the world and I think that's a problem. You obviously don't so we'll just have to disagree. Cheers.
And for all of what we are disagreeing on, I still hope you have a great day. (no sarcasm)
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!0 -
waterfairy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Burning_Talons wrote: »This isnt skyrim
Vamps are a norm and even a side man of king emeric. Im not about to feed every 30 mins to please you RPers when I like staying stage 4 for buffs.
ha this. You're only a criminal if you start sucking the blood of innocent townsfolk...also Skyrim allowed stage 4 to walk freely.
Werewolf on the other hand is more understandable but I wouldn't want to be fighting something in the presence of guards and accidentally get into it with them because I'm a beast.Edited by waterfairy on May 31, 2016 2:49PM0 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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True, you learn that in the initiation quest for your vampy character.Well a little vamp lore to ruin a hater's day:
The player 'strain' (aka version of vamp), are the vamps against molag bal. I dont want to spoil it, but the pc vamps are actually 'good' guys more then 'bad'...
But, does anyone really think a guard is going to make a blood test to check which strain of vampire he is dealing with??? That's like asking your generic D&D character to check of the gobbos they are about to slaughter acrually are from a tribe that's been doing raiding. In three decades roleplaying, I have yet to see that happen even once!
Immersion is not tied to any "play my way" considerations, as it is determined by the backstory. And the backstory has it that people consider werewolves and vampires "monsters" and monsters get killed when possible before they get a chance to kill you. Not that vampires or werewolves don't also fail at immersion in many ways aside from the guards...Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »Actually; it is "play my way" when the current standard is that Vamps and Werewolves don't get attacked, but there's a minority/singular point of view/opinion that their "immersion" would be increased by changing it. The change then affect the way the majority of players currently get to enjoy the aforementioned aspect of the game. That is the very definition of "play my way", and regardless of the views of what is "immersion" or not, it would ruin being a Vamp/WW for quite a large number of people.
Now... the argument of "ruining" is also a weak one... and one that has been made before. All those people who whined how the justice system would "ruin" their gameplay because they could no longer take everything, everywhere...
Yes, it would add an disadvantage to those who play vampires or werewolves. But a manageable one, and a logical one. And most important, that would make it less of an draw for people to go vampy or WW in the first place... right now, it often feels like there are way too many of them around.
...you are doing it wrong, you know.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »A further thought; just because two or so people in this thread think it would be "no big deal" to "simply feed, then go shopping", it might very much be a huge inconvenience for the rest of the community. Let's keep in mind that to feed, one must commit felonious aggravated assault against an NPC. An assault that guarantees a bounty (and not a small bounty), and rarely kills even a weak NPC. Thus, even were a player to "simply feed", they then get accosted/slaughtered by a Guard the instant they approach a town gate.
My Vampy feeds only on the wicked, like bandits, maormer invaders, cultists, etc. No bounty when I drain those, in fact I even gain money by rifling through their pockets... Heck, once a guard even helped me finish one off!
Yet, that point is -exactly- why I mentioned that any such "Monster KoS" change should also come with new ways for blood thirst control. Like mentioned... enchanted vials that store extra feedings and keep the blood fresh for example...
They also started with everything could be grabbed, everywhere, and then refitted the justice system that made stealing a crime. Thus... precedent for them changing their system for immersion, despite the "gimme crowd" disliking it because it made things a bit less easy for the player.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »For my final point; you are correct that precedents have been made for both sides of this argument. Zenimax went for the precedent that Vamps and Werewolves don't get attacked, and people are liking it just fine...
However, easy is boring...0