The classes that can and can't?

Mettaricana · May 2016

Ok so I love making the unorthodox classes etc but some just seem to under perform so hard before I make anything else I'd like to get feed back on the top performers and the out right pathetic.

Including buffs or nerfs from dark brotherhood can you guys tell me what each class can or cannot do in viable endgame content.

Night blade: healer, tank, dps?
Dragon knight: healer, tank, dps?
Templar: healer, tank, dps?
Sorcerer(rip): healer, tank ,dps?

I kinda wanna make a nb healer or tank but until I know the details from this post ill reserve me decisions.

freespirit · May 2016

I really am no expert but I find I perform best when my characters fit my prefered playstyle.

I'm sure there will be a lot of disagreement but to my mind all classes can play all roles, just need to have a clear idea where you are going whilst in character creation, race can be important.

Everything else can be changed easily as you level.

Mettaricana · May 2016

Not looking for as I level I'm looking at end game functionality. So far tried heavy sorc tank it sucked more than a vacuum retail store. Tried dk healer and fell flat...so at this point I just want a vast majority agreement on what works and what's a lost cause. I was running a stam sorc but remove all my heals with this surge crap and I'm dead in the water on that path

Saturn · May 2016

Mettaricana wrote: »

Ok so I love making the unorthodox classes etc but some just seem to under perform so hard before I make anything else I'd like to get feed back on the top performers and the out right pathetic.

Including buffs or nerfs from dark brotherhood can you guys tell me what each class can or cannot do in viable endgame content.

Night blade: healer, tank, dps?
Dragon knight: healer, tank, dps?
Templar: healer, tank, dps?
Sorcerer(rip): healer, tank ,dps?

I kinda wanna make a nb healer or tank but until I know the details from this post ill reserve me decisions.

Dragonknights are good for all roles. Tanking is the easiest with this class as they have a lot of abilities and passives that cater to tanking. They require some skill to heal with, as healing with this class is more about preventing damage, than actually healing it. This is done by the use of shields. A good friend of mine makes Dragonknight healers look overpowered, but it isn't for everyone.

Nightblades are good for all roles. They require a bit of skill to tank with, but have a lot of strengths when it comes to tanking. For healing they can work quite well as a lot of their abilities do damage and heal, like strife and sap essence, meaning you can be offensive while healing, which is something templars don't have.

Templars are good at all roles too, in terms of tanking they are slightly worse than Nightblades as they lack good tanking abilities.

Sorcerers are the hardest to heal / tank with, but it is possible. I used to tank as a sorcerer before Update 6, but it only really worked with a lot of health as the class doesn't have any inherent strengths when it comes to tanking (unless you want to spam shields). The negate is nice for group control, but that's about the only good thing sorcerers have for tanking. Same goes for healing. They have the twilight pet that can heal, but that's about it.

In terms of dps, I'd say all classes can be played effectively for all types of PvE. However, Stamina Sorcerer seems to be severely lacking behind every other class for stamina dps as they don't have much in the way of good stamina abilities, other than Bound Armaments and the "Hurricane" ability (I might have gotten the name wrong).
Magicka Sorcerer doesn't really have any problems in terms of keeping up with the other classes when it comes to magicka dps.

Hope this was sort of useful.

starkerealm · May 2016

Mettaricana wrote: »

Night blade: healer, tank, dps?

This is accurate. DPS is the easiest route, and has the most options. Siphon is your main interest for healers. Shadow is a good place to start building a tank, but Siphon will round it out.

Mettaricana wrote: »

Dragon knight: healer, tank, dps?

You'll fall into a tank build with a DK even if you don't know what you're doing. DK healers are really strong. DK DPS can be fantastic.

Mettaricana wrote: »

Templar: healer, tank, dps?

Healer is default pick. Tanks are straightforward. From what I remember, Templar DPS are a little resource starved, but certainly viable.

Templars are notable because they're the one class that can run a healer without a restoration staff. Usually this ends up leaking into a tank or DPS build instead of being a dedicated healer's approach, but it can also allow you to get some hits in while continuing to keep the party's health topped off and deal some damage during the lulls.

Mettaricana wrote: »

Sorcerer(rip): healer, tank ,dps?

Sorc healers are very resource efficient, but have few skills in their own tree. Tanks can be quite strong, but require a different approach to the role from most classes. DPS is the default.

Even with the doom and gloom on the forums, Sorcs are still the easiest class to solo endgame content on. These guys can be both very tough, and hit very hard.

starkerealm · May 2016

Mettaricana wrote: »

Not looking for as I level I'm looking at end game functionality. So far tried heavy sorc tank it sucked more than a vacuum retail store. Tried dk healer and fell flat...so at this point I just want a vast majority agreement on what works and what's a lost cause. I was running a stam sorc but remove all my heals with this surge crap and I'm dead in the water on that path

Sorc Tanks take some work and experimentation. This may sound like BS, but this really isn't a build someone can hand you and you're off. It takes a lot of practice to get these guys down. And, I say that with a Sorc tank. These guys are zero margin for error, though. They can be a lot of fun, but they're very tricky.

With DK healers, I'm not sure. I've been told, repeatedly, that DKs are the second best class pick for a healer after a Templar. I'd honestly suggest you find someone who actually has made that build work, and get advice from them.

freespirit · May 2016

Ok so healer probably Templar either Breton or Altmer (for the race magicka bonuses) the only class with dedicated heal skill tree.

Tank I am not an expert on but Templar tank can be really good, I know a few.

On the whole actually without going through all classes if you want a healer/tank for end game I would plump for Templar.

A healer OR a tank then any class BUT for both it has to be Templar, trying it as a NB would leave you short of some of the major(not necessarily the best though) healing skills.

Resto staff is good but I don't know many Trials groups that would go for a NB over a Templar as healer

Septimus_Magna · May 2016

Magicka sorc is in my opinion one of the easiest classes for tanking vet dungeons, especially with the upcoming dmg shield changes.

Its easy to get 40k+ dmg shields (with just Hardened Ward and Dampen Magic) which means you can tank in 5LA/1MA/1HA and dont even need to block to mitigate dmg.

The stats (max magicka and magicka regen) dont need to be ridiculously high either, so you can tank with purple v15 gear if you want to.

All magicka classes can perform all roles but sorcs has little benefits towards healing, will be a bit better with the healing morph of Negate coming in the DB update.

WillhelmBlack · May 2016

Took my Argonian NB healer to level 45 last night. I'm also going to tank with him, he's beast mode in PvP with Transmutation set.

My Templar is also looking promising this update, he's magicka also but I'm gonna bring his stamina up to about 17K because he dies the second he can't break free in PvP now. Stam DK and NB are hitting way too hard.

My Stamblade and DK are going to be absolutely fine! Stam DK will be unkillable as a tank in heavy and hit the hardest in medium for sure.

It's weird ZOS boosted stamina builds this patch, Magicka was nearly on par.

WillhelmBlack · May 2016

Double post

Mettaricana · May 2016

Double posted?

PhatGrimReaper · May 2016

The short answer is that all 4 classes can do all three traditional roles.

starkerealm · May 2016

Mettaricana wrote: »

Double posted?

The boards have been weird lately.

Mettaricana · May 2016

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

The short answer is that all 4 classes can do all three traditional roles.

As much as people say this it doesn't seem to be so seen some terrible people who think their good at a class role....

PhatGrimReaper · May 2016

Mettaricana wrote: »

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

The short answer is that all 4 classes can do all three traditional roles.

As much as people say this it doesn't seem to be so seen some terrible people who think their good at a class role....

Terrible players are going to be terrible players no matter what class/role they play.

I have played with good players of all class/role combos and I have played with bad players of all combos.....

The fact remains that all are possible and effective in the right hands..

ConeOfSilence · May 2016

Vampire Kiss armor in PvE heals you quite nicely as Nightblade.

starkerealm · May 2016

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

Mettaricana wrote: »

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

The short answer is that all 4 classes can do all three traditional roles.

As much as people say this it doesn't seem to be so seen some terrible people who think their good at a class role....

Terrible players are going to be terrible players no matter what class/role they play.

I have played with good players of all class/role combos and I have played with bad players of all combos.....

The fact remains that all are possible and effective in the right hands..

Yeah, I've got to second this. There are some class/role combos that are easier or harder to set up and play, but a lot of the "sorcs can't tank" or "templars can't DPS" arguments I've seen are evidenced by encounters with players who just didn't know what they were doing, and often weren't actually properly geared.

The_Rooster24 · May 2016

All classes can tank (for the most part) dks and night blades are the top for that, but Templar and sorcs are certainly viable. Dk is your best option for tank as they are the only class with a pull (chains) that really helps add control in endgame content. All classes can dps though some better than others. For magic basically every class is a good option. Sorc unfortunately has one of the lowest running dots so their dps can be lackluster at times but with a lot of ultimate saved up they are hard pressed to beat in a strict single target fight. For stamina all classes are good, but once again the night blade and dk will stay at the top with temp and sorcs bringing up the rear. For healing basically the only viable options are Templar and sorc. Sorc can only do this with the twilight! That is the only thing that is even close to Templar breath of life currently in game. Unfortunately dks basically do not offer enough burst heals to sustain in real endgame content but could probably get away with it in 4 man dungeons along with the nightblade. The nightblade does best as a dps in teems of healing bc the more dmg they do essentially the more healing they will provide.

Hope thus helped clear some things up!

Curragraigue · May 2016

Saturn wrote: »

Mettaricana wrote: »

Ok so I love making the unorthodox classes etc but some just seem to under perform so hard before I make anything else I'd like to get feed back on the top performers and the out right pathetic.

Including buffs or nerfs from dark brotherhood can you guys tell me what each class can or cannot do in viable endgame content.

Night blade: healer, tank, dps?
Dragon knight: healer, tank, dps?
Templar: healer, tank, dps?
Sorcerer(rip): healer, tank ,dps?

I kinda wanna make a nb healer or tank but until I know the details from this post ill reserve me decisions.

Dragonknights are good for all roles. Tanking is the easiest with this class as they have a lot of abilities and passives that cater to tanking. They require some skill to heal with, as healing with this class is more about preventing damage, than actually healing it. This is done by the use of shields. A good friend of mine makes Dragonknight healers look overpowered, but it isn't for everyone.

Nightblades are good for all roles. They require a bit of skill to tank with, but have a lot of strengths when it comes to tanking. For healing they can work quite well as a lot of their abilities do damage and heal, like strife and sap essence, meaning you can be offensive while healing, which is something templars don't have.

Templars are good at all roles too, in terms of tanking they are slightly worse than Nightblades as they lack good tanking abilities.

Sorcerers are the hardest to heal / tank with, but it is possible. I used to tank as a sorcerer before Update 6, but it only really worked with a lot of health as the class doesn't have any inherent strengths when it comes to tanking (unless you want to spam shields). The negate is nice for group control, but that's about the only good thing sorcerers have for tanking. Same goes for healing. They have the twilight pet that can heal, but that's about it.

In terms of dps, I'd say all classes can be played effectively for all types of PvE. However, Stamina Sorcerer seems to be severely lacking behind every other class for stamina dps as they don't have much in the way of good stamina abilities, other than Bound Armaments and the "Hurricane" ability (I might have gotten the name wrong).
Magicka Sorcerer doesn't really have any problems in terms of keeping up with the other classes when it comes to magicka dps.

Hope this was sort of useful.

It isn't tanking abilities that are the problem for Temp tanks it is resource management.

Mettaricana · May 2016

The last two posts are more what I'm looking for who is good and who's not worth trying said type with

Curragraigue · May 2016

For end game personally I think the combos are:

DK - tank and DPS
NB - tank, DPS and heal
Temp - DPS and heal
Sorc - DPS

All of the classes can do all of the roles for most of the content but for the hardest content you are just making your life harder trying to fit a circle in a square hole. For me I still stick with best combo for a four person party is Stam DK tank, Stam DPS NB, Mag Temp Healer and Mag Sorc DPS.

It comes down to what works for you but if you were playing a Stam Sorc I would recommend trying a Stam NB and/or Stam DK.

LegacyDM · May 2016

I'm a NB sap. I can do high healing and high damage. It's a blast to play.

Witar · May 2016

Curragraigue wrote: »

NB - tank, DPS and heal
Temp - DPS and heal

Templar have better tanking utility and passives than nb.

luxfreak · May 2016

I may give you an indept view of Nightblade Tanks:
Your main intrests lie within theese skills:
Swallow Soul(Other Funnel Moprh), Bolstering Darkness(other veil morph), Mirage(Blur), Dark Shades(Summon Shadows).
Dark Shades are optional, you can take heroic slash + refreshing Path to get the same Buffs, and some more.
Refreshing Path is a good skill for Blade Tanks anyway.
Siphoning Attacks seems mandatory at first, but if you think about it, there are little ways to proc it, besides light/heavy Attacks and your taunts.
So slot it, and keep it up, if you can, but dont cry if that is not possible.

Gear:
You may wanna go Tavas Blessing+Blood Spawn/Lord Wardens/Malubeth+Hunt
Yes, Hunt Set from MSA. As Jewelry and possibly as foods and belt.
We wanna do that, as long as we play with Dark Shades.
Why? Dark Shades count as Pet for the Hunt Set, so it will give you back ressources.
You will gain some Stamina as well.
If you go with like 3~4 Sturdy Parts next Patch, you can get actually regenerate ressources while blocking in some fights.

Why Tava? When you use Mirage, you will naturally have the Dodge Chance, and on a Nighblade, you will have crazy ulty reg from siphoning passivs(csting an ability from siphoning will grant you ult every 4 seconds, drinking a potion will grant you 20 ult)

Going for max ult reg would make you using Blood Spawn, using Lord For Max Resitances(your resistances are quite low in this setup) or use Malubeth for Max Heal.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO · May 2016

i would say dk is a good end game character, my main is a fire mage dk and put out very high dps, but i can also of heal if need in wgt and pvp and even tank in light armour

lolo_01b16_ESO · May 2016

It depends a bit on what you plan to do. If you just want to be able to do vet dungeons your class doesn't matter. With a competent group I can "heal" icp on my magicka nb using only funnel and sap essence, so every class should manage that with a restro staff. For tanking there's also no class skill absolutely required, so just get some heavy armour, equip a shield and a taunt and you're ready to go.

If you want to be able to do trials however it changes a bit. There tanks and healers often have jobs that require special class skills. If you want to heal on something else than a templar, you need to either tell your group that they should change their builds to sustain without your support or ask a templar dps if he can care for stamina support.
Same goes for tanks that are no dks. Then you need to ask some dk dps if they can always chain when needed.
So in theory you can probably also heal vMoL on a Sorc, but I guess you will have a hard time finding a group that adjusts to you, just because you want to be special.

Julianos · May 2016

Mettaricana wrote: »

Ok so I love making the unorthodox classes etc but some just seem to under perform so hard before I make anything else I'd like to get feed back on the top performers and the out right pathetic.

Including buffs or nerfs from dark brotherhood can you guys tell me what each class can or cannot do in viable endgame content.

Night blade: healer, tank, dps?
Dragon knight: healer, tank, dps?
Templar: healer, tank, dps?
Sorcerer(rip): healer, tank ,dps?

I kinda wanna make a nb healer or tank but until I know the details from this post ill reserve me decisions.

NB all the way down they got everything without any weakness and tons of stam morphs for stam build and lots of good skills like fear or cloak etc. Very usefull passives synergize with everything very well tanking healing dps stealth play and burst damage skill combos. Go NB other classes are just garbage i tried everything.

Curragraigue · May 2016

Witar wrote: »

Curragraigue wrote: »

NB - tank, DPS and heal
Temp - DPS and heal

Templar have better tanking utility and passives than nb.

Temps have good tanking skills that are high cost magicka based and no way to recover magicka other than pots. NB's can use siphoning to regain resources and gain a number of defensive passives that activate with abilities. Set up well they can both work but personally I think NB is easier because it comes with in built resource regeneration.

Zoner · May 2016

Technically any class can perform any role, but naturally some do better than others.

It can be stressful for the tank for instance if they're doing some of the more challenging content, and the dps is low and the healer is anything but a templar - Shards and repentance for stamina recovery especially for long drawn out fights are very much appreciated. And a lack of burst heals can make things a bit harder too. Always happy to see a templar with shards/repentance when I tank. It's not strictly necessary but makes the job easier and more enjoyable...

But if you like a challenge or just want to have a bit of fun, go for it

fred4 · May 2016

I would listen to the people who have experience with trials. I have not, and my experience with the toughest content otherwise (vDSA, vMA, vICP, vWGT) is limited. I also play solo a lot and this colours my perspective. I wonder how many people here have tried every combination of race and skill lines and have done so at the highest level content. I sure haven't, but I can speak for the two characters I play at V16, a Breton Magicka Nightblade and a Nord Stamina DK.

My Nightblade outperforms the DK in every way I've tried so far. I tank or DPS. I have not tried playing as a healer.

It was interesting to see the post above that talks about NB tanking. That's not the way I do it. For me the NBs #1 tanking skill is Siphoning Attacks. The above poster is wrong to say there are little ways to proc it outside of heavy / light attacks and taunts. Specifically, if you are surrounded by trash mobs or adds, Sap Essence will proc it constantly. To me NB tanking is about blocking and resource management, above all stamina management. I cannot imagine that without Siphoning Attacks (I guess I'll have to try). Accordingly I wear 5pc Footman + 5pc Seducer as my armor, which I find viable with food. Alternatively I swap the 5pc Seducer for 4pc Alessia's Bulwark to bring up physical resistance, but only find that viable with Orzorga's Red Frothgar. When I say viable, I mean at the toughest content that I play.

For the DPS role, the best comparison I have between my two characters are certain fights in Upper Craglorn, including soloing delves. The Nightblade excels here by such a margin, it's not even funny. Now, you'll note, since I'm playing solo, this includes an element of tanking, but the tankiness comes solely from using 1H + Shield. Otherwise my setup is pure DPS, 5x Julianos (light) + 4x Magnus + 3x Willpower with spell damage enchants (I tried Kena, but didn't like it). Using Elemental Blockade, Sap Essence and (usually) Meteor, sometimes Proxy Det, the average DPS output by my NB is typically 50% higher than from my Stamina DK. I put this down mostly to the AOE damage. Against boss monsters it's a little more even, but the NB still wins.

Which brings me to the Nord DK. I have tried playing her as both Stamina and Magicka. Magicka DKs are said to be AOE monsters, but I don't get it. I found the Magicka DK playstyle very cumbersome. It's all about DOTs and delayed reactions. Can't straight up heal from Burning Embers, need to hit the same target twice. That can be hard under pressure, in the middle of a mob. Can't use Inhale for DPS and heal at the same time ... you have to wait 2.9 seconds for the main DPS component. And so on. Every non-Ultimate AOE skill the DK has pales in comparison to Elemental Blockade, which is accessible to all classes. When all was said and done, there seemed to be no reward for the cumbersome Magicka DK playstyle. The NB still out-DPSd her easily.

Of course my DK is a Nord. I find that race severely hampers you by not having a Stamina or Magicka boosting racial passive. I am back playing her as Stamina. I have to confess, I haven't explored 1H + Shield with her, which would be the obvious choice. I play her with 2H and bow, using a mostly non-blocking playstyle. She has surprising tankiness from switching CP into physical and magic damage resistance, her Nord passive, and the Brawler shield, but she can't compete with my NB for tanking in this guise.

For DPS she seems fairly competitive, single-target, with my NB. In terms of AOE, however, she isn't. This is perhaps mostly down to the lack of coverage from Brawler. I supplement that with Caltrops and Arrow Barrage, the latter of which at least comes close to Elemental Blockade in terms damage and coverage. This still doesn't bring her close to the NB, and while I haven't been using the DK Standard recently, I doubt that would bridge the difference. I also tried Steel Tornado at one point, but it didn't seem to fit the build and didn't bring an immediately noticeable improvement.

fred4 · May 2016

A healer once said to me: "I love Nightblade tanks". I think this highlights our self-sufficiency in that role, or perhaps in general. We heal while attacking. We automatically heal some of the group while doing so. As a Magicka NB we can reserve our stamina for blocking and are not hampered by the lack of stamina regen, for our abilities run on magicka. Siphoning Attacks and the cheapness of Funnel Health allow us to manage both our resources very well.