Allowing multiple alliance characters in campaigns brings new style of play?

Breedj01 · May 2016

Seeing people on different alliances in the same campaign initially annoyed the heck out of me, however, it could be seen as a way to bring espionage into the war... Is this a good thing? All alliances can do it... Will it damage pvp?

Minno · May 2016

Breedj01 wrote: »

Seeing people on different alliances in the same campaign initially annoyed the heck out of me, however, it could be seen as a way to bring espionage into the war... Is this a good thing? All alliances can do it... Will it damage pvp?

Depends on the situation. I actually like fighting people I share faction loyalty with since it adds new builds/fighting to learn (I.e. Sypher is a good example of tri-faction player done right, blabafat is another good dual-citizenship fighter.)

But there are dark moments when you see a tri-faction player only log when that faction has an advantage, logs on to sabotage the factions zone chat by being a disrespectful tool, etc. I can't name some of them but we all dealt with a few.

So far the pros outweigh the cons for it to be a problem.

Hyssia · May 2016

Actually had people log into their EP characters today to commend me for my fighting style in zonechat.

Don't care much about people "spying" or "sabotaging" since I don't care about the map, as long as my faction isn't pushed to the gates I'll be able to find PvP somewhere.

zyk · May 2016

Minno wrote: »

But there are dark moments when you see a tri-faction player only log when that faction has an advantage, logs on to sabotage the factions zone chat by being a disrespectful tool, etc. I can't name some of them but we all dealt with a few.

I've observed this to be normal. It's not like the population of EP spontaneously grew massively when 2.3 was released. EP's numbers are being bolstered by players who played for other factions in 2.2 when it was convenient for them. This is why other online games need mechanisms to balance teams. Players tend to take the path of least resistance.

The increased trolling of opposition zones is very annoying too.

This is why I would love to see a FFA/GvG campaign. So few players care about the Alliance War, so let's try dropping it entirely.

nikigwil · May 2016

All alliances are doing it already.

Rohamad_Ali · May 2016

I wouldn't say new . People have been doing it since launch . Multiple accounts , the old travel to fellow guild member trick until they finally just opened it up .

zyk · May 2016

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

I wouldn't say new . People have been doing it since launch . Multiple accounts , the old travel to fellow guild member trick until they finally just opened it up .

The key is granularity. We're not talking 0 and 1s here. While it is true that there have always been loopholes, it is now *much* easier without having to involve other players who may or may not be available at convenient times.

It now happens much more frequently than before. Any random player can do it. IMO, for every player that wants to join a losing/outnumbered team, there four who would switch to join the winning team. This is just an online gaming reality.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler You need to develop mechanisms for population and competitive balance across all intervals.

Rohamad_Ali · May 2016

zyk wrote: »

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

I wouldn't say new . People have been doing it since launch . Multiple accounts , the old travel to fellow guild member trick until they finally just opened it up .

The key is granularity. We're not talking 0 and 1s here. While it is true that there have always been loopholes, it is now *much* easier without having to involve other players who may or may not be available at convenient times.

It now happens much more frequently than before. Any random player can do it. IMO, for every player that wants to join a losing/outnumbered team, there four who would switch to join the winning team. This is just an online gaming reality.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler You need to develop mechanisms for population and competitive balance across all intervals.

I've asked in the past for similar tools . Instead they opened the gates . Because the players wanted it . Out numbered I had to concede to the community . It's not what I wanted but here it is anyways .

Delsskia · May 2016

Allowing alts from any faction on the same campaign was a horrible idea caused by another horrible idea, condensing Cyr down to 2 CP campaigns.

Turelus · May 2016

TBH I would say it's a bad thing because there is no counter.

Spying like this works in games like EVE Online because you can kick/kill the character out of your allaince/sov space. However in ESO alliance members are invincible vs you and there is only one counter.

The counter is to have alts in every faction and have people from your own faction relog to keep killing the offending player, this doesn't help people play the game in the way they want to be playing.

If ESO had been build from the start for allowing spying and espionage style gameplay sure I would say this is great and adds another dynamic, however it was designed to be one character from a faction in each campaign and no changes were made when that restriction was removed.

Animus-ESO · May 2016

This game should be like DAoC. You log into the game for the first time, you pick a faction and your in it to win it. Enemy factions just show up as Argonian(dragonknight), you dont know their names, they are enemies. They speak different languages so they cant whisper you. No fame or glory in the game, Only guilds really got famous. Want to play another faction? Make another account or delete your characters if you want to switch.

This solves many problems, No more spys, Builds faction pride, Creates a great RvR atmosphere, Builds team work with your own alliance, Stops salty tells every time you best someone, Less anger and more fun.

Being we get to play all the factions quests there is NO reason you even need to switch factions like we do accept to troll or be a traitor to your own alliance.

Turelus · May 2016

Not sure I like that idea Jason.

I enjoy knowing the names of my enemies and the friendly rivalries it builds. I have over the years had a few AD/DC players on my friends list because I respected them and it was fun taunting each other when we dropped scrolls etc.

I agree the game shouldn't be so flippant (is that the right word) when it comes to faction choice and loyalty but ZOS didn't know any better way to try and balance the factions in Cyrodiil.

Animus-ESO · May 2016

Turelus wrote: »

Not sure I like that idea Jason.

I enjoy knowing the names of my enemies and the friendly rivalries it builds. I have over the years had a few AD/DC players on my friends list because I respected them and it was fun taunting each other when we dropped scrolls etc.

I agree the game shouldn't be so flippant (is that the right word) when it comes to faction choice and loyalty but ZOS didn't know any better way to try and balance the factions in Cyrodiil.

People just don't want any limitations anymore because they think it will limit the fun they can have, but the truth is it enhances it. This is a common theme plaguing the gaming culture today, everything is watered down, there is no choices to make anymore. Life is about choices, cool thing about video games is you can change it...But it should come at a steep price.

Look at combat, It's buggy as all hell, animation canceling is too unpredictable and unstable to balance a game, But people want to be able to cast high damage abilities with no repercussions or possibilities to be countered. Some argue this makes the combat have a higher skill cap. More experienced players get an advantage and makes the game more interesting. I highly disagree. The only thing animation canceling does is take away the decision making process in combat, If you had to do full animations you would actually need to calculate if you had time to pull off a large damage combo before you your self where going to get bursted. A smarter and more mechanically inclined player would do better in combat verses a impulsive dummy who just smashes buttons as fast as he can. You could use more tactics, instead of mindlessly using light attack>surprise attack> Block repeatedly until execute range or they die. Terra is a good example for this. Good players know how long it takes they to use a high damage combos, need to plan positioning and time it correctly to actually pull it off. Fights would actually have rhythm, last longer, be more enjoyable instead of the cluster *** of CC spam and wrecking blow spam it is now.

They removed soft caps, This gives people the options to build insanely high sustainability but keep all the damage. They don't want to be limited in any way how they build. This only causes fights to last either seconds or forever, there is no in between. People don't want to choose between sustain or damage.This completely waters down build diversity and makes the game flat out boring.

Ugh i can talk until im blue in the face about all the flaws in this game, But nothing with change. ZoS can't even fix the mess they have now. This is the first MMO ive played that constantly became worse with every patch they put out.

RDMyers65b14_ESO · May 2016

jasonthorpeb14_ESO wrote: »

This game should be like DAoC. You log into the game for the first time, you pick a faction and your in it to win it. Enemy factions just show up as Argonian(dragonknight), you dont know their names, they are enemies. They speak different languages so they cant whisper you. No fame or glory in the game, Only guilds really got famous. Want to play another faction? Make another account or delete your characters if you want to switch.

This solves many problems, No more spys, Builds faction pride, Creates a great RvR atmosphere, Builds team work with your own alliance, Stops salty tells every time you best someone, Less anger and more fun.

Being we get to play all the factions quests there is NO reason you even need to switch factions like we do accept to troll or be a traitor to your own alliance.

If only ESO had been done this same way. It would solve so many problems. I keep hoping that ZOS wakes up and implements this solution. But I am running out of faith in ZOS. Thank Gods that another MMORPG is in my future. Still 18 months to go before the release of CoE, and already I am having more fun than I am on this game.

Docmandu · May 2016

jasonthorpeb14_ESO wrote: »

This game should be like DAoC. You log into the game for the first time, you pick a faction and your in it to win it. Enemy factions just show up as Argonian(dragonknight), you dont know their names

Actually, you click on a target in DAoC and it will write the target's name to the chat log. So you do know the name, can't whisper though (inter realm whispers only worked on the pve and pvp servers). Always found it strange that you can whisper the enemy in this game... usually it's only used for trash talk anyway.

Lava_Croft · May 2016

Breedj01 wrote: »

Seeing people on different alliances in the same campaign initially annoyed the heck out of me, however, it could be seen as a way to bring espionage into the war... Is this a good thing? All alliances can do it... Will it damage pvp?

It has effectively killed the last remnants of what should have been the "Alliance War". ESO PvP is just a free for all now.