Craglorn is being looked into.

bedlom · May 2016

As said by the devs so I am very eager to hear more about this from the devs when the time comes.
But what do you expect them to do? I guess making it all more solo friendly and to bring it on par with the other zones is the obvious.
But for those that might have missed it, it is being worked on thankfully.

Epona222 · May 2016

I hope that they will remove arbitrary requirements for having a certain number of people in a group for completing quests there. Like having to have 4 people standing in certain spots to open the last lower crag quest location. I've done most of lower and upper craglorn in a group of 3, I know some people like to try to solo stuff, it should be the difficulty of encounters that determines how many/makeup of group that you require, NOT having sufficient number to stand on pressure plates to get in.

bedlom · May 2016

Epona222 wrote: »

I hope that they will remove arbitrary requirements for having a certain number of people in a group for completing quests there. Like having to have 4 people standing in certain spots to open the last lower crag quest location. I've done most of lower and upper craglorn in a group of 3, I know some people like to try to solo stuff, it should be the difficulty of encounters that determines how many/makeup of group that you require, NOT standing on pressure plates to get in.

Yes that it definitely one of my main concerns also.

phaneub17_ESO · May 2016

I hope they don't reduce the challenge or difficulty in any way. It's different than running headlong into the fray and blasting everything in sight, in those Delves I have to move a lot to keep pace with some of the end bosses and it's incredibly more fun solo.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

I hope looking into it means
1. Not making it more solo, but making it relevant to the cap gear and top nodes
2. Addressing the concerns raised from group only without nerfing the zone
3. Addressing the rarity of nirnhoned trait and the mat
4. Adding the group delves into the grouping tools
5. Adding the other trials to top gear relevance

We are online and while players do need content to play alone, there is a need for variety. Nearly every open world zone is solo-able. This one needs to go back to being group friendly and the zone needs its own new tool to group players in the open zone. Think of how The Division allows from the map screen to queue for a party and wishin less than 2 mins, ppl are grouped.

Basically the faction barriers would need to fall as its a PvE environment and it should be the best source for nodes, loot, exp, etc and have a min loot table.

Looking at the DB changes to silver and gold, this zone should be a min of CP150.

I know tha runs the solo-only crowd but if they remove the group requirements in part, then prior progress is not comparable for some quests and achievements. Other than that, tho, the faction limitation should just be removed and there would need to be a way to not have it overpopulated but these are just my ideas thrown out.

I like the zone a lot and want some difficulty. Not like Wrothgar world bosses but like the April 2014 version of Craglorn as in difficulty not the phasing.

Epona222 · May 2016

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

I hope they don't reduce the challenge or difficulty in any way. It's different than running headlong into the fray and blasting everything in sight, in those Delves I have to move a lot to keep pace with some of the end bosses and it's incredibly more fun solo.

I agree, as I said in my previous post, I've done most of it in a group of 3 (none of us are any sort of elite high-end players) and the difficulty, compared to normal zone solo questing, keeps us on our toes and makes us work together and is a good thing - I wouldn't want to see that toned down, because it is really good fun the way it is. A better player than myself may want to try things duo or solo, and they should be able to attempt it without having to call in friends to help them open doors. I wouldn't want to see the zone made less-challenging, just the removal of party member requirements to get through some of it.

Things to improve would be - make the XP worthwhile so that players actually want to group to do content in Craglorn, so if someone wants to earn XP it would be viable for them to go to Crag and maybe team up with people who haven't done the quests there yet, and get adequately rewarded for re-running that content - that would be beneficial to everyone.

Abeille · May 2016

Including the scale mechanics used on DLC zones in Craglorn would help a lot.

With that, I mean:
Zone being scaled to CR160.
Scaling players to CR150.
Having CR150 and CR160 drops.
Scaling the nodes to player level and crafting skill.

So really, making it like any DLC zone.
I do not think they should make it more "solo friendly", except for maybe removing the artificial limits. I think there are at least two quests that need more than one people not because they are hard, but because the mechanics to progress require multiple players (I think one requires people to stand on plates to open a door? Bear with me, it's been forever since I did Craglorn). But the overall difficulty of the groups of enemies and bosses shouldn't change, in my opinion. And with it scaled to CR160, it would make a great challenge.

Maybe add a few cosmetic rewards. Content will be done if people find it to be rewarding, and cosmetic rewards are great because they don't get obsolete with new releases.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

Abeille wrote: »

Including the scale mechanics used on DLC zones in Craglorn would help a lot.

With that, I mean:
Zone being scaled to CR160.
Scaling players to CR150.
Having CR150 and CR160 drops.
Scaling the nodes to player level and crafting skill.

So really, making it like any DLC zone.
I do not think they should make it more "solo friendly", except for maybe removing the artificial limits. I think there are at least two quests that need more than one people not because they are hard, but because the mechanics to progress require multiple players (I think one requires people to stand on plates to open a door? Bear with me, it's been forever since I did Craglorn). But the overall difficulty of the groups of enemies and bosses shouldn't change, in my opinion. And with it scaled to CR160, it would make a great challenge.

Maybe add a few cosmetic rewards. Content will be done if people find it to be rewarding, and cosmetic rewards are great because they don't get obsolete with new releases.

@Abeille
I've been searching and even asking until I uninstalled PTS recently, what is CP scaling and how does it work, what is it based on?

Cause on PTS no one has the skill/Stat points we can't test or know. Have you seen anything?

redspecter23 · May 2016

To Do List

1. Scale it like Wrothgar and Hew's Bane
2. Fix the xp
3. Scale up the rewards
4. Add fun interesting dailies like in Orsinium (optional)
5. Add motifs to chase after like recent DLC's (optional)

Abeille · May 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Including the scale mechanics used on DLC zones in Craglorn would help a lot.

With that, I mean:
Zone being scaled to CR160.
Scaling players to CR150.
Having CR150 and CR160 drops.
Scaling the nodes to player level and crafting skill.

So really, making it like any DLC zone.
I do not think they should make it more "solo friendly", except for maybe removing the artificial limits. I think there are at least two quests that need more than one people not because they are hard, but because the mechanics to progress require multiple players (I think one requires people to stand on plates to open a door? Bear with me, it's been forever since I did Craglorn). But the overall difficulty of the groups of enemies and bosses shouldn't change, in my opinion. And with it scaled to CR160, it would make a great challenge.

Maybe add a few cosmetic rewards. Content will be done if people find it to be rewarding, and cosmetic rewards are great because they don't get obsolete with new releases.

@Abeille
I've been searching and even asking until I uninstalled PTS recently, what is CP scaling and how does it work, what is it based on?

Cause on PTS no one has the skill/Stat points we can't test or know. Have you seen anything?

Unfortunately, this is one thing that I couldn't test because I stupidly made a template when the EU copy happened instead of just making a new character, therefore I got stuck with an account with 300 CP, and during the NA test I had a little over 400 CP

I am assuming DLC zones that previously scaled players to VR15 will scale them now to CR150, and that they will get the bonus HP/Magicka/Stamina for that. But it is just an assumption based on the fact that, right now, there is scaling for players under VR15 on DLC zones, and that after the conversion the enemies will be CR160 instead of VR16 on these areas. I asked a lot on PTS too, but couldn't find a single person under 150 CP (actually I didn't find many people at all. The pve areas on the PTS were pretty empty for the most part).

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

redspecter23 wrote: »

To Do List

1. Scale it like Wrothgar and Hew's Bane
2. Fix the xp
3. Scale up the rewards
4. Add fun interesting dailies like in Orsinium (optional)
5. Add motifs to chase after like recent DLC's (optional)

@redspecter23
-Any idea what scaled is now after VR was removed?
Is scaled level 50 or something more and how is scaled defined knowing that scaled to CP has to involve any CP cap changes.

-What would you suggest as a min level?

Epona222 · May 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Including the scale mechanics used on DLC zones in Craglorn would help a lot.

With that, I mean:
Zone being scaled to CR160.
Scaling players to CR150.
Having CR150 and CR160 drops.
Scaling the nodes to player level and crafting skill.

So really, making it like any DLC zone.
I do not think they should make it more "solo friendly", except for maybe removing the artificial limits. I think there are at least two quests that need more than one people not because they are hard, but because the mechanics to progress require multiple players (I think one requires people to stand on plates to open a door? Bear with me, it's been forever since I did Craglorn). But the overall difficulty of the groups of enemies and bosses shouldn't change, in my opinion. And with it scaled to CR160, it would make a great challenge.

Maybe add a few cosmetic rewards. Content will be done if people find it to be rewarding, and cosmetic rewards are great because they don't get obsolete with new releases.

@Abeille
I've been searching and even asking until I uninstalled PTS recently, what is CP scaling and how does it work, what is it based on?

Cause on PTS no one has the skill/Stat points we can't test or know. Have you seen anything?

Unless I've misunderstood the question, CP Scaling works exactly the same as the scaling in Wrothgar or Hew's Bane right now - currently if you go in those zones under VR15, you will be scaled to VR15. Once vet ranks are removed on Tuesday, the level of those zones will be CP160, and anyone who goes in them at whatever level who is under CP150, will be scaled up to CP150.

The maximum character level in terms of earning XP is counted as CP160, which is the equivalent of VR16 - so if you have 500 or 1000 CP your character will be treated as CP160 in terms of XP gain, a CP1000 player is treated the same as a CP160 player in terms of the amount of XP they receive for killing NPC mobs.

I'm not sure I've explained it very well, sorry.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

Epona222 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Including the scale mechanics used on DLC zones in Craglorn would help a lot.

With that, I mean:
Zone being scaled to CR160.
Scaling players to CR150.
Having CR150 and CR160 drops.
Scaling the nodes to player level and crafting skill.

So really, making it like any DLC zone.
I do not think they should make it more "solo friendly", except for maybe removing the artificial limits. I think there are at least two quests that need more than one people not because they are hard, but because the mechanics to progress require multiple players (I think one requires people to stand on plates to open a door? Bear with me, it's been forever since I did Craglorn). But the overall difficulty of the groups of enemies and bosses shouldn't change, in my opinion. And with it scaled to CR160, it would make a great challenge.

Maybe add a few cosmetic rewards. Content will be done if people find it to be rewarding, and cosmetic rewards are great because they don't get obsolete with new releases.

@Abeille
I've been searching and even asking until I uninstalled PTS recently, what is CP scaling and how does it work, what is it based on?

Cause on PTS no one has the skill/Stat points we can't test or know. Have you seen anything?

Unless I've misunderstood the question, CP Scaling works exactly the same as the scaling in Wrothgar or Hew's Bane right now - currently if you go in those zones under VR15, you will be scaled to VR15. Once vet ranks are removed on Tuesday, the level of those zones will be CP160, and anyone who goes in them at whatever level who is under CP150, will be scaled up to CP150.

The maximum character level in terms of earning XP is counted as CP160, which is the equivalent of VR16 - so if you have 500 or 1000 CP your character will be treated as CP160 in terms of XP gain, a CP1000 player is treated the same as a CP160 player.

I'm not sure I've explained it very well, sorry.

@Epona222

That actually is most people's assumption but think of it.
VR16 today (those stat and skill points) are at DB, level 50.

CP 160 is a whole different layer of attribute changes or passive increases so cp160 is at DB is VR16+CP160 today.

That's very different. I keep asking ZOS and have gotten nothing other than what I wrote above but when on PTS, CP160 zones are absent of having to be level 50 cause it's accessed at level (pre-50) and skill and stat points come at different increments starting from level 3-50 but on PTS, we don't have those stats and skills added as it was said it won't be experienced until DB hits live servers.....so I really want to understand what's what.

Osteos · May 2016

I hope they add the Yokudan motif to Craglorn. Have it drop in the delves either in urns like the dwemer or from bosses like Hew's bane with outlaw. I really want that motif!!

I really like craglorn, it looks great and the quests are interesting. The rewards though

redspecter23 · May 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

To Do List

1. Scale it like Wrothgar and Hew's Bane
2. Fix the xp
3. Scale up the rewards
4. Add fun interesting dailies like in Orsinium (optional)
5. Add motifs to chase after like recent DLC's (optional)

@redspecter23
-Any idea what scaled is now after VR was removed?
Is scaled level 50 or something more and how is scaled defined knowing that scaled to CP has to involve any CP cap changes.

-What would you suggest as a min level?

As far as scaling goes, I'd say make all mobs and loot CP160 as I assume Hew's Bane and Orsinium would be after the update hits. Although everyone will be level 50, the scaling will effect the loot and mob level which will affect your xp gains. The minimum level to play the content would be level 1 in theory. There are some issues still with the current scaling system where new players with no CP are at a massive disadvantage but that will at least someone fix itself as alts will never have that problem again, only pure first timers and they can level up their first toons through silver and gold for something easier and save the DLC/scaled content for a challenge or for alts.

Epona222 · May 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Including the scale mechanics used on DLC zones in Craglorn would help a lot.

With that, I mean:
Zone being scaled to CR160.
Scaling players to CR150.
Having CR150 and CR160 drops.
Scaling the nodes to player level and crafting skill.

So really, making it like any DLC zone.
I do not think they should make it more "solo friendly", except for maybe removing the artificial limits. I think there are at least two quests that need more than one people not because they are hard, but because the mechanics to progress require multiple players (I think one requires people to stand on plates to open a door? Bear with me, it's been forever since I did Craglorn). But the overall difficulty of the groups of enemies and bosses shouldn't change, in my opinion. And with it scaled to CR160, it would make a great challenge.

Maybe add a few cosmetic rewards. Content will be done if people find it to be rewarding, and cosmetic rewards are great because they don't get obsolete with new releases.

@Abeille
I've been searching and even asking until I uninstalled PTS recently, what is CP scaling and how does it work, what is it based on?

Cause on PTS no one has the skill/Stat points we can't test or know. Have you seen anything?

Unless I've misunderstood the question, CP Scaling works exactly the same as the scaling in Wrothgar or Hew's Bane right now - currently if you go in those zones under VR15, you will be scaled to VR15. Once vet ranks are removed on Tuesday, the level of those zones will be CP160, and anyone who goes in them at whatever level who is under CP150, will be scaled up to CP150.

The maximum character level in terms of earning XP is counted as CP160, which is the equivalent of VR16 - so if you have 500 or 1000 CP your character will be treated as CP160 in terms of XP gain, a CP1000 player is treated the same as a CP160 player.

I'm not sure I've explained it very well, sorry.

@Epona222

That actually is most people's assumption but think of it.
VR16 today (those stat and skill points) are at DB, level 50.

CP 160 is a whole different layer of attribute changes or passive increases so cp160 is at DB is VR16+CP160 today.

That's very different. I keep asking ZOS and have gotten nothing other than what I wrote above but when on PTS, CP160 zones are absent of having to be level 50 cause it's accessed at level (pre-50) and skill and stat points come at different increments starting from level 3-50 but on PTS, we don't have those stats and skills added as it was said it won't be experienced until DB hits live servers.....so I really want to understand what's what.

If you want to test it out on the PTS, log in and create a template character with 10 million gold, either build them the same way your main is if you do not have your main on the PTS currently, or put that money in the bank and respec your main - respeccing returns all missing attributes and skill points that are currently awarded up to VR16. It takes 3 minutes to respec and test it out with those missing points. I've done this exact thing on both character copies (I play on both servers) and all points are awarded to you if you respec. There's probably no need to respec your skill points anyway, I usually have some spare on characters over level 50, so missing a few from your unspent skill points pool will not affect combat performance for the purpose of testing. Just respec your attributes to retrieve those missing attribute points (which was identified as the workaround pretty much on day 1 of DB being put on the PTS and will cost around 3.8k at most).

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

@Epona222 @redspecter23
PTS doesn't have the skill and stat points of a non-VR16 today tho. The template isn't helpful cause that template is at max level. I'll just wait til DB hits live cause no one seems to realize when we're on PTS that scaling is absent completely.

So let's say Craglorn is scaled to VR16 (that context pre-DB)
-using today's terms would access still require VR1? (50)

nimander99 · May 2016

bedlom wrote: »

As said by the devs so I am very eager to hear more about this from the devs when the time comes.
But what do you expect them to do? I guess making it all more solo friendly and to bring it on par with the other zones is the obvious.
But for those that might have missed it, it is being worked on thankfully.

They are scaling all of Tamriel. Basically every zone will be handles exactly like our last couple DLC's. Then with every CP Cap increase all of Tamriel will increase accordingly.

Epona222 · May 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

@Epona222 @redspecter23
PTS doesn't have the skill and stat points of a non-VR16 today tho. The template isn't helpful cause that template is at max level. I'll just wait til DB hits live cause no one seems to realize when we're on PTS that scaling is absent completely.

So let's say Craglorn is scaled to VR16 (that context pre-DB)
-using today's terms would access still require VR1? (50)

I don't understand what you are talking about. If you are talking about missing attribute points (because they are not awarded retrospectively on PTS at present) then all you need to do is respec your attribute points and you get the missing ones back. I did this on a VR5 and ended up with 64 attribute points after respec. It's a workaround for the PTS.

Eshelmen · May 2016

An updated version of Craglorn would be really sweet. Keep it as difficult as it was when it first came out, yet scale the zone to CP160 enemies(battle leveling not allowed). Strictly a CP160 zone. An elite PVE Zone filled with danger and updated rewards.

Loot chance drops should be lowered for every additional player in said group. This makes farming Craglorn in a Zerg group(Like IC has) pointless and keeps the challenge/reward for solo, duel, tri or quad play only.
Of course, have your typical 3 or 4 world bosses too for the big public fights.

Update Craglorn drops with current and on going DLC game mats.

It's kind of depressing to go to Craglorn now. The only real reason to go there now is to farm.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

Epona222 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

@Epona222 @redspecter23
PTS doesn't have the skill and stat points of a non-VR16 today tho. The template isn't helpful cause that template is at max level. I'll just wait til DB hits live cause no one seems to realize when we're on PTS that scaling is absent completely.

So let's say Craglorn is scaled to VR16 (that context pre-DB)
-using today's terms would access still require VR1? (50)

I don't understand what you are talking about. If you are talking about missing attribute points (because they are not awarded retrospectively on PTS at present) then all you need to do is respec your attribute points and you get the missing ones back. I did this on a VR5 and ended up with 64 attribute points after respec. It's a workaround for the PTS.

@Epona222

Today scaled means this:
Characters from level 10-ish to VR16 have attributes and stats increased (scaled) to be viable with other VR16 encounters.
VR16 today has absolutely no scaling in respects to CP points.

So now VR is being converted to CP BUT not 1:1

When you gain a VR today the stats go up for each one as well as you being given 1 new stat and 1 new skill point.
At DB release we know the 1 new skill and stat points happen between 1-50.
Cool.

I think it's safe to assume the VR1-16 stat increases also happen between 1-50.

Cool

So my question is this to ZOS or anyone who may know....

Because CP today has no scaling, when DB hits, what is being scaled since NPCs are rated on CP and not VR but VR for the player character is built into 1-50.

Make sense?
There is either a whole new scaling coming in
Or
Those stat increases that happen at each VR increase today aren't going to happen between 1-50 and will happen at CP 10-160 but because CP usage also changes some stats, it creates a need to understand what is being scaled and how?

Abeille · May 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

@Epona222 @redspecter23
PTS doesn't have the skill and stat points of a non-VR16 today tho. The template isn't helpful cause that template is at max level. I'll just wait til DB hits live cause no one seems to realize when we're on PTS that scaling is absent completely.

So let's say Craglorn is scaled to VR16 (that context pre-DB)
-using today's terms would access still require VR1? (50)

On PTS right now, it still requires lvl 50 for what I can tell. I couldn't find someone online to port my lvl 49 template character to Craglorn, but the cart on the second major city wasn't available to me.

I imagine that if anything would have changed the requirement, it would have been the VR-CR conversion. Not that they can't change it later, of course, when they actually "look into" Craglorn. If their objective is to make it exactly like any paid DLC, then they will make it available from the moment you get out of the tutorial. Otherwise, I don't see them changing the requirement. Just speculation, of course.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

Abeille wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

@Epona222 @redspecter23
PTS doesn't have the skill and stat points of a non-VR16 today tho. The template isn't helpful cause that template is at max level. I'll just wait til DB hits live cause no one seems to realize when we're on PTS that scaling is absent completely.

So let's say Craglorn is scaled to VR16 (that context pre-DB)
-using today's terms would access still require VR1? (50)

On PTS right now, it still requires lvl 50 for what I can tell. I couldn't find someone online to port my lvl 49 template character to Craglorn, but the cart on the second major city wasn't available to me.

I imagine that if anything would have changed the requirement, it would have been the VR-CR conversion. Not that they can't change it later, of course, when they actually "look into" Craglorn. If their objective is to make it exactly like any paid DLC, then they will make it available from the moment you get out of the tutorial. Otherwise, I don't see them changing the requirement. Just speculation, of course.

@Abeille
Ok so are you saying in the upcoming changes you'd like it to stay at level 50
Or
Are you saying access should now be based on CP and level 50
Or
Are you saying scaled access like level 10 but require CP160

Or something else

Epona222 · May 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

@Epona222 @redspecter23
PTS doesn't have the skill and stat points of a non-VR16 today tho. The template isn't helpful cause that template is at max level. I'll just wait til DB hits live cause no one seems to realize when we're on PTS that scaling is absent completely.

So let's say Craglorn is scaled to VR16 (that context pre-DB)
-using today's terms would access still require VR1? (50)

I don't understand what you are talking about. If you are talking about missing attribute points (because they are not awarded retrospectively on PTS at present) then all you need to do is respec your attribute points and you get the missing ones back. I did this on a VR5 and ended up with 64 attribute points after respec. It's a workaround for the PTS.

@Epona222

Today scaled means this:
Characters from level 10-ish to VR16 have attributes and stats increased (scaled) to be viable with other VR16 encounters.
VR16 today has absolutely no scaling in respects to CP points.

So now VR is being converted to CP BUT not 1:1

When you gain a VR today the stats go up for each one as well as you being given 1 new stat and 1 new skill point.
At DB release we know the 1 new skill and stat points happen between 1-50.
Cool.

I think it's safe to assume the VR1-16 stat increases also happen between 1-50.

Cool

So my question is this to ZOS or anyone who may know....

Because CP today has no scaling, when DB hits, what is being scaled since NPCs are rated on CP and not VR but VR for the player character is built into 1-50.

Make sense?
There is either a whole new scaling coming in
Or
Those stat increases that happen at each VR increase today aren't going to happen between 1-50 and will happen at CP 10-160 but because CP usage also changes some stats, it creates a need to understand what is being scaled and how?

Aaahhh I see - I suspect you are worried about high level content such as scaling in PvP or in group dungeons. It's fine for normal play, I can't provide numbers or anything, but I did the first DB quest with absolutely no problems on a level 4 character on PTS - it was a little harder than it was for my previous VR16, but not massively so. PvP/dungeon scaling I don't know, hopefully someone else can chime in on that?

LadyLethalla · May 2016

I'm hoping they'll change Craglorn to more like the DLC.

It's all very well for people to say "grab a friend" but if you don't actually have any friends who play on your server and your guilds are just for trade... As a vet 16 the mobs in the world probably won't give me too much difficulty (I hope) but there's no way I'm going to venture into a delve solo or wait for the Dungeon Finder to pair me up with strangers - after my own experience with a Wayrest Sewers PUG months ago.

Not only that but a friend who plays on the NA server, who is a guildmaster was playing Craglorn with a friend and couldn't find two other guildies/friends to come stand on the pressure plates - he had to offer to pay two randoms to do so.

Epona222 · May 2016

LadyLethalla wrote: »

I'm hoping they'll change Craglorn to more like the DLC.

It's all very well for people to say "grab a friend" but if you don't actually have any friends who play on your server and your guilds are just for trade... As a vet 16 the mobs in the world probably won't give me too much difficulty (I hope) but there's no way I'm going to venture into a delve solo or wait for the Dungeon Finder to pair me up with strangers - after my own experience with a Wayrest Sewers PUG months ago.

Not only that but a friend who plays on the NA server, who is a guildmaster was playing Craglorn with a friend and couldn't find two other guildies/friends to come stand on the pressure plates - he had to offer to pay two randoms to do so.

This is why I think offering a decent rate of XP for activities would work well - imagine if you were on a quest and could easily pick up someone who was going to get decent XP for fighting mobs in the area and (as an example) getting an additional XP bonus for re-running that quest area with someone who hadn't done it yet - there would be a real incentive for people to hang around Craglorn and redo content there.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

Epona222 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

@Epona222 @redspecter23
PTS doesn't have the skill and stat points of a non-VR16 today tho. The template isn't helpful cause that template is at max level. I'll just wait til DB hits live cause no one seems to realize when we're on PTS that scaling is absent completely.

So let's say Craglorn is scaled to VR16 (that context pre-DB)
-using today's terms would access still require VR1? (50)

I don't understand what you are talking about. If you are talking about missing attribute points (because they are not awarded retrospectively on PTS at present) then all you need to do is respec your attribute points and you get the missing ones back. I did this on a VR5 and ended up with 64 attribute points after respec. It's a workaround for the PTS.

@Epona222

Today scaled means this:
Characters from level 10-ish to VR16 have attributes and stats increased (scaled) to be viable with other VR16 encounters.
VR16 today has absolutely no scaling in respects to CP points.

So now VR is being converted to CP BUT not 1:1

When you gain a VR today the stats go up for each one as well as you being given 1 new stat and 1 new skill point.
At DB release we know the 1 new skill and stat points happen between 1-50.
Cool.

I think it's safe to assume the VR1-16 stat increases also happen between 1-50.

Cool

So my question is this to ZOS or anyone who may know....

Because CP today has no scaling, when DB hits, what is being scaled since NPCs are rated on CP and not VR but VR for the player character is built into 1-50.

Make sense?
There is either a whole new scaling coming in
Or
Those stat increases that happen at each VR increase today aren't going to happen between 1-50 and will happen at CP 10-160 but because CP usage also changes some stats, it creates a need to understand what is being scaled and how?

Aaahhh I see - I suspect you are worried about high level content such as scaling in PvP or in group dungeons. It's fine for normal play, I can't provide numbers or anything, but I did the first DB quest with absolutely no problems on a level 4 character on PTS - it was a little harder than it was for my previous VR16, but not massively so. PvP/dungeon scaling I don't know, hopefully someone else can chime in on that?

I don't have a PvP concern because it's clear that there at non CP campaigns so other than the obvious question (Is CP gear allowed) PvP is straight forward.

PvE tho ....it's definately harder and I suspect it's because either this was intentionally left out or there is more to come when we hit live but they "ZOS" don't know cause they haven't tested it cause it had to be on the live server.

This concerns me greatly and I imagine the PvP crowd had the CP gear concern. I don't PvP tho

Epona222 · May 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

@Epona222 @redspecter23
PTS doesn't have the skill and stat points of a non-VR16 today tho. The template isn't helpful cause that template is at max level. I'll just wait til DB hits live cause no one seems to realize when we're on PTS that scaling is absent completely.

So let's say Craglorn is scaled to VR16 (that context pre-DB)
-using today's terms would access still require VR1? (50)

I don't understand what you are talking about. If you are talking about missing attribute points (because they are not awarded retrospectively on PTS at present) then all you need to do is respec your attribute points and you get the missing ones back. I did this on a VR5 and ended up with 64 attribute points after respec. It's a workaround for the PTS.

@Epona222

Today scaled means this:
Characters from level 10-ish to VR16 have attributes and stats increased (scaled) to be viable with other VR16 encounters.
VR16 today has absolutely no scaling in respects to CP points.

So now VR is being converted to CP BUT not 1:1

When you gain a VR today the stats go up for each one as well as you being given 1 new stat and 1 new skill point.
At DB release we know the 1 new skill and stat points happen between 1-50.
Cool.

I think it's safe to assume the VR1-16 stat increases also happen between 1-50.

Cool

So my question is this to ZOS or anyone who may know....

Because CP today has no scaling, when DB hits, what is being scaled since NPCs are rated on CP and not VR but VR for the player character is built into 1-50.

Make sense?
There is either a whole new scaling coming in
Or
Those stat increases that happen at each VR increase today aren't going to happen between 1-50 and will happen at CP 10-160 but because CP usage also changes some stats, it creates a need to understand what is being scaled and how?

Aaahhh I see - I suspect you are worried about high level content such as scaling in PvP or in group dungeons. It's fine for normal play, I can't provide numbers or anything, but I did the first DB quest with absolutely no problems on a level 4 character on PTS - it was a little harder than it was for my previous VR16, but not massively so. PvP/dungeon scaling I don't know, hopefully someone else can chime in on that?

I don't have a PvP concern because it's clear that there at non CP campaigns so other than the obvious question (Is CP gear allowed) PvP is straight forward.

PvE tho ....it's definately harder and I suspect it's because either this was intentionally left out or there is more to come when we hit live but they "ZOS" don't know cause they haven't tested it cause it had to be on the live server.

This concerns me greatly and I imagine the PvP crowd had the CP gear concern. I don't PvP tho

I am truly baffled now, we must be talking at cross purposes. With the exception of veteran dungeons and trials, no PvE content is difficult.

Abeille · May 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

@Epona222 @redspecter23
PTS doesn't have the skill and stat points of a non-VR16 today tho. The template isn't helpful cause that template is at max level. I'll just wait til DB hits live cause no one seems to realize when we're on PTS that scaling is absent completely.

So let's say Craglorn is scaled to VR16 (that context pre-DB)
-using today's terms would access still require VR1? (50)

On PTS right now, it still requires lvl 50 for what I can tell. I couldn't find someone online to port my lvl 49 template character to Craglorn, but the cart on the second major city wasn't available to me.

I imagine that if anything would have changed the requirement, it would have been the VR-CR conversion. Not that they can't change it later, of course, when they actually "look into" Craglorn. If their objective is to make it exactly like any paid DLC, then they will make it available from the moment you get out of the tutorial. Otherwise, I don't see them changing the requirement. Just speculation, of course.

@Abeille
Ok so are you saying in the upcoming changes you'd like it to stay at level 50
Or
Are you saying access should now be based on CP and level 50
Or
Are you saying scaled access like level 10 but require CP160

Or something else

I'm merely stating how things are now on the PTS and how I think they will be in the future, if they decide to go down that road and make Craglorn exactly like other DLCs. I didn't really say what I would like to happen.

I wouldn't be affected by a change on the requirements, so I didn't give it much thought. I do not think they will add a CP requirement on top of the level requirement, though.

Kendaric · May 2016

I hope they make it more solo-friendly (at the very least the area quest line) and maybe keep the delves as group stuff.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

Epona222 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

@Epona222 @redspecter23
PTS doesn't have the skill and stat points of a non-VR16 today tho. The template isn't helpful cause that template is at max level. I'll just wait til DB hits live cause no one seems to realize when we're on PTS that scaling is absent completely.

So let's say Craglorn is scaled to VR16 (that context pre-DB)
-using today's terms would access still require VR1? (50)

I don't understand what you are talking about. If you are talking about missing attribute points (because they are not awarded retrospectively on PTS at present) then all you need to do is respec your attribute points and you get the missing ones back. I did this on a VR5 and ended up with 64 attribute points after respec. It's a workaround for the PTS.

@Epona222

Today scaled means this:
Characters from level 10-ish to VR16 have attributes and stats increased (scaled) to be viable with other VR16 encounters.
VR16 today has absolutely no scaling in respects to CP points.

So now VR is being converted to CP BUT not 1:1

When you gain a VR today the stats go up for each one as well as you being given 1 new stat and 1 new skill point.
At DB release we know the 1 new skill and stat points happen between 1-50.
Cool.

I think it's safe to assume the VR1-16 stat increases also happen between 1-50.

Cool

So my question is this to ZOS or anyone who may know....

Because CP today has no scaling, when DB hits, what is being scaled since NPCs are rated on CP and not VR but VR for the player character is built into 1-50.

Make sense?
There is either a whole new scaling coming in
Or
Those stat increases that happen at each VR increase today aren't going to happen between 1-50 and will happen at CP 10-160 but because CP usage also changes some stats, it creates a need to understand what is being scaled and how?

Aaahhh I see - I suspect you are worried about high level content such as scaling in PvP or in group dungeons. It's fine for normal play, I can't provide numbers or anything, but I did the first DB quest with absolutely no problems on a level 4 character on PTS - it was a little harder than it was for my previous VR16, but not massively so. PvP/dungeon scaling I don't know, hopefully someone else can chime in on that?

I don't have a PvP concern because it's clear that there at non CP campaigns so other than the obvious question (Is CP gear allowed) PvP is straight forward.

PvE tho ....it's definately harder and I suspect it's because either this was intentionally left out or there is more to come when we hit live but they "ZOS" don't know cause they haven't tested it cause it had to be on the live server.

This concerns me greatly and I imagine the PvP crowd had the CP gear concern. I don't PvP tho

I am truly baffled now, we must be talking at cross purposes. With the exception of veteran dungeons and trials, no PvE content is difficult.

@Epona222

So I play primarily on Xbox one.
I have my PC account to test out on PTS so I have a VR 4+, VR1, level 5, level 12+ and a level 30

I do this to test out diff things so when I say PvE is hard, it's not regarding the template (max character) it's the pre-50 character in a scaled zone.

Also, because this account is less than CP160, taking my VR1 to CP160 zones was an eye opener as in harder on PTS than Live. Not hard as in, impossible or banging my head ago at the wall but hard as in, I definately missed the 1-50 bump that's absent and it seems the scaling is going to be either heavily weighed on 1-50 or entirely there or a mix of 1-50 and some CP applied use.

It's funny cause most ppl on PTS have one VR16 and over 160 CP so they look at my questions like I'm confused but when things go live, the first week I always see my questions come back up.

Just hoping this gets addressed at DB launch in the detailed patch notes cause it was not addressed in PTS, news or ESO live threads to date.