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Does nobody else see how wrong this is? (craft bags)
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NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »@ShedsHisTail
Okay... Let me see if I'm understanding since I apparently missed it.
1.) You're saying to would increase the existing bonuses from ESO+. Correct?
2.) The craft bag feature would also be granted to ESO+ Members. Correct?
3.) For everyone else they would have to "unlock" the feature via some in-game quest or cost, potentially in Crowns. Correct?
Please, I'm a moron. Keep your answers confined to "yes" or "no" for each point. If "no" a short clarification will suffice. I'm losing your answers in all the extra irrelevancy you keep tacking on.
1. Yes (if you're asking me "How I would make ESO more attractive "if I were the director)
2. No, the crafting bag would be unlimited to ESO Plus members as it stands today
3. Yes
All of this in specific context to
its a feature /base game udate
The bag is not an inventory item or something you get and turn on/off
Its an interface update / feature where there is a new category added.
How would it work outside of ESO Plus.
-it works like your inventory works.
How to access it
-just like the bag vendor NPC via gold (and crowns)
-accessible via a series of quests
Functionality
-limits in slots (up-gradable to a max below the ESO PLus unlimited*)
- two ways
1. just like the bag vendor NPC via gold (and crowns)
2. accessible via a series of quests
The base game patch also features an abundance of new features including poison-making as an extension of the Alchemy system, improvements to item set traits, more enhancements to the Grouping Tool, nameplates, item locking, Craft Bags for ESO Plus members, and more. And, of course, the highly anticipated removal of Veteran Ranks. We’ll be publishing a deep-dive of Veteran Rank removal on our website later next week, but in the meantime, you’ll find the top-level details in the patch notes below to get you started.
*-The crafting bag is a "new feature" as described by ZOS staff. But notice how literally all other updates and new features are not locked behind ESO Plus. Thats the whole point we are discussing.
Craft Bags
ESO Plus members will now receive access to the Craft Bag.
(ZOS' definition) Craft Bags are an additional inventory section which does not count against your inventory limit, is shared across all characters on the account, and can hold an effectively unlimited number of all basic crafting supplies.
If your membership expires, you will still have access to the resources stored in your Craft Bag, but you will be unable to add any new materials to it.
Loot that goes to your Craft Bag has a special call out in the Loot History.
Crafting Materials from your inventory and account bank will automatically go to the Craft Bag upon login.
Items can be manually retrieved from the Craft Bag in maximum stacks of 200. Retrieved items can also be manually stowed back into the Craft Bag.
Okay, so you're saying in your model, no one gets the exclusive bag. Everyone has to go through the same channels to acquire it; that being in-game questing and/or Crown store purchases. Regardless of whether they are subbed or not.
@ShedsHisTail
No I'm not suggesting no one gets the bag.
Please slow down. Read the full comment.
ESO Plus - specific to the bag doesn't change. It's unlimited
In addition to the ESO plus bag, I believe non-crafters would like to have some benefits so I suggested to increase existing benefits.
-the non-subscriber (as above)
That's what I asked and you said, "No."
I said:
2.) The craft bag feature would also be granted to ESO+ Members. Correct?
You Said:
2. No, the crafting bag would be unlimited to ESO Plus members as it stands today
I thought maybe you were using the word "unlimited" as in to say "not exclusive to ESO+ Members" because your answer appeared to contradict itself.
Just to be clear, I asked if, in your model, ESO+ Members would still get the bag. Your answer was (paraphrased), "No, Yes."
There's some sort of communication barrier between you and I and I can't figure out what it is.
@ShedsHisTail
You're in too many conversations and it's causing you to loose focus so you're having a hard time following the conversation.
You're three questions were after asking what I would do if I were in charge and how what I would do would work.
The three questions in this conversation follow your comment of "ESO+ would get the bags, correct"
Then you misunderstood my comment as saying ESO+ subscribers wouldn't get the bag in the unlimited offer but instead have to obtain it like non-subscribers.
So when you asked the three questions: in context
1. The first question is confirming if my suggestion would add "additional" benefits to the existing ESO+
2. The second question is asking if the crafting bag "feature" under my suggestions would be granted to ESO+ members.
Its a feature as I read ZOS' definition but you're saying it's not a feature so my response to how you describe and see it, is No. I then commented so you did understand the "feature" would be unlimited under ESO plus but not unlimited for a non-subscriber outside of ESO plus which is the third question you asked.
Make sense?
See we that are opposed to subscribe for whatever reasons, aren't intended on removing the unlimited feature piece from a subscriber. We are intending on gaining access to the bag whether it's limited as I suggest or even unlimited as some others suggest outside of a sub.
Edited by NewBlacksmurf on May 27, 2016 1:25AM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »Greetings all,
We are glad to see our members making great use of the forums! However, we regret to say that this is a warning for the thread itself. We see quite the amount of forth between members and would just like to remind all members that Flaming, Baiting, and Trolling each other is in fact a violation of the rules.Please be aware that future violations of the Community Rules will result in the thread being closed, and even possibly removed. Thank you for your understanding.
hehe... the thread got a warning. That's kind of funny actually.
One thing is for sure though, we're a passionate community.
That's funny, because while there has been "quite the amount of forth" in the thread, I think the flaming, baiting and trolling was pretty minimal.
Yeah I agree, slight differences of opinion aside which is the point of a forum, the conversations have been mature and balanced for the most part, a few trollish posts but nothing too serious, doesn't take much I guess.
Anyway, back on the rails @Tommy1979AtWar .
I still think a good solution to this whole crafting bag debacle would be:Gideon wrote:[*]Crafting Material Bags: These bags have enough spaces to hold one stack of every type of material for the specific craft. Only the specific craft’s materials can be placed within the corresponding bag.- Alchemist Satchel (1500 Crowns)
- Blacksmith’s Haversack (1500 Crowns)
- Clothier’s Tote (1500 Crowns)
- Enchanter’s Purse (1500 Crowns)
- Provisioner’s Knapsack (1500 Crowns)
- Woodworker’s Duffel (1500 Crowns)
We could probably add in "Fisherman's Tackle" in there too. They're not unlimited bags but just enough to hold one of every crafting material. Don't need to sub to have them.
Subs get unlimited crafting bag space. Non subs get an opportunity to buy "enough" space for a craft... I would say something like "I don't see why anyone would be against this" but I know this community well enough to know that there would be quite a few people who are.
One stack of each for each specific sounds fair for mats, would caught fish be stored in the tackle bag? just thinking about extended fishing trips, also trophy type issues as some of them it's painful to skin or sell.
ooh, yea. Fish and Bait. That makes sense! I think I'll add that to the original post. Good idea!What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!1 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis0 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭newtinmpls wrote: »
yea... us. I have a hard time passing up a twig... a rusty sword... an apple.
Heck, I'm bummed out we cant strip all our vanquished foes of all their armor and weapons. That would make me happy AND would make the problem worse.
What's wrong with me? I need help!
Edited by Gidorick on May 27, 2016 1:43AMWhat ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!0 -
ShadowRukia✭✭Not wrong. im a ESO+ member and im paying for the game, supporting it so I should get more stuff then freebe players.0 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lucius_Aelius wrote: »It's not entitlement to expect to get my money's worth (which is what all Subscribers have been whining about all this time), and switching to a subscription after buying so much directly is utterly wasteful and not at all worth what I've paid for it.
What you got for the money you already paid has not changed.Lucius_Aelius wrote: »ZOS trying to incentivize paying customers to waste our money just to get a single game-changing perk is underhanded, and I'll quit the game sooner than subscribe if ZOS values me so little as a a customer to try and do so.
From the very start, ZoS wanted to use a subscription model for reasons that they explained early on (and I'm not going to bother to recreate). The idea that they are at long last offering a sub-benefit that manages to be both
1-not pay to win
and
2-desirable enough to stir up such an intense reaction (joy/frustration/all of it)
seems .... well really overdue, frankly.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis4 -
WalkingLegacy✭✭✭✭✭
✭As much as I look forward to more bag space I can't help but laugh when I think how bad their inventory system in conjunction with the horrible horse feeding system and they go:
"hey we know there is so much stuff for you to loot, and well alleviate some of the pain for our novicely designed inventory system if you just pay us $15 a month"2 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »@ShedsHisTail
Okay... Let me see if I'm understanding since I apparently missed it.
1.) You're saying to would increase the existing bonuses from ESO+. Correct?
2.) The craft bag feature would also be granted to ESO+ Members. Correct?
3.) For everyone else they would have to "unlock" the feature via some in-game quest or cost, potentially in Crowns. Correct?
Please, I'm a moron. Keep your answers confined to "yes" or "no" for each point. If "no" a short clarification will suffice. I'm losing your answers in all the extra irrelevancy you keep tacking on.
1. Yes (if you're asking me "How I would make ESO more attractive "if I were the director)
2. No, the crafting bag would be unlimited to ESO Plus members as it stands today
3. Yes
All of this in specific context to
its a feature /base game udate
The bag is not an inventory item or something you get and turn on/off
Its an interface update / feature where there is a new category added.
How would it work outside of ESO Plus.
-it works like your inventory works.
How to access it
-just like the bag vendor NPC via gold (and crowns)
-accessible via a series of quests
Functionality
-limits in slots (up-gradable to a max below the ESO PLus unlimited*)
- two ways
1. just like the bag vendor NPC via gold (and crowns)
2. accessible via a series of quests
The base game patch also features an abundance of new features including poison-making as an extension of the Alchemy system, improvements to item set traits, more enhancements to the Grouping Tool, nameplates, item locking, Craft Bags for ESO Plus members, and more. And, of course, the highly anticipated removal of Veteran Ranks. We’ll be publishing a deep-dive of Veteran Rank removal on our website later next week, but in the meantime, you’ll find the top-level details in the patch notes below to get you started.
*-The crafting bag is a "new feature" as described by ZOS staff. But notice how literally all other updates and new features are not locked behind ESO Plus. Thats the whole point we are discussing.
Craft Bags
ESO Plus members will now receive access to the Craft Bag.
(ZOS' definition) Craft Bags are an additional inventory section which does not count against your inventory limit, is shared across all characters on the account, and can hold an effectively unlimited number of all basic crafting supplies.
If your membership expires, you will still have access to the resources stored in your Craft Bag, but you will be unable to add any new materials to it.
Loot that goes to your Craft Bag has a special call out in the Loot History.
Crafting Materials from your inventory and account bank will automatically go to the Craft Bag upon login.
Items can be manually retrieved from the Craft Bag in maximum stacks of 200. Retrieved items can also be manually stowed back into the Craft Bag.
Okay, so you're saying in your model, no one gets the exclusive bag. Everyone has to go through the same channels to acquire it; that being in-game questing and/or Crown store purchases. Regardless of whether they are subbed or not.
@ShedsHisTail
No I'm not suggesting no one gets the bag.
Please slow down. Read the full comment.
ESO Plus - specific to the bag doesn't change. It's unlimited
In addition to the ESO plus bag, I believe non-crafters would like to have some benefits so I suggested to increase existing benefits.
-the non-subscriber (as above)
That's what I asked and you said, "No."
I said:
2.) The craft bag feature would also be granted to ESO+ Members. Correct?
You Said:
2. No, the crafting bag would be unlimited to ESO Plus members as it stands today
I thought maybe you were using the word "unlimited" as in to say "not exclusive to ESO+ Members" because your answer appeared to contradict itself.
Just to be clear, I asked if, in your model, ESO+ Members would still get the bag. Your answer was (paraphrased), "No, Yes."
There's some sort of communication barrier between you and I and I can't figure out what it is.
@ShedsHisTail
You're in too many conversations and it's causing you to loose focus so you're having a hard time following the conversation.
You're three questions were after asking what I would do if I were in charge and how what I would do would work.
The three questions in this conversation follow your comment of "ESO+ would get the bags, correct"
Then you misunderstood my comment as saying ESO+ subscribers wouldn't get the bag in the unlimited offer but instead have to obtain it like non-subscribers.
So when you asked the three questions: in context
1. The first question is confirming if my suggestion would add "additional" benefits to the existing ESO+
2. The second question is asking if the crafting bag "feature" under my suggestions would be granted to ESO+ members.
Its a feature as I read ZOS' definition but you're saying it's not a feature so my response to how you describe and see it, is No. I then commented so you did understand the "feature" would be unlimited under ESO plus but not unlimited for a non-subscriber outside of ESO plus which is the third question you asked.
Make sense?
See we that are opposed to subscribe for whatever reasons, aren't intended on removing the unlimited feature piece from a subscriber. We are intending on gaining access to the bag whether it's limited as I suggest or even unlimited as some others suggest outside of a sub.
We're done friend. Nothing to do with you, I'm just finished with this conversation.
Just wanted you to know why you weren't going to be getting an answer from me."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭newtinmpls wrote: »Lucius_Aelius wrote: »It's not entitlement to expect to get my money's worth (which is what all Subscribers have been whining about all this time), and switching to a subscription after buying so much directly is utterly wasteful and not at all worth what I've paid for it.
What you got for the money you already paid has not changed.Lucius_Aelius wrote: »ZOS trying to incentivize paying customers to waste our money just to get a single game-changing perk is underhanded, and I'll quit the game sooner than subscribe if ZOS values me so little as a a customer to try and do so.
From the very start, ZoS wanted to use a subscription model for reasons that they explained early on (and I'm not going to bother to recreate). The idea that they are at long last offering a sub-benefit that manages to be both
1-not pay to win
and
2-desirable enough to stir up such an intense reaction (joy/frustration/all of it)
seems .... well really overdue, frankly.
@newtinmpls
How can you only see one side ?
Yes, ESO plus benefits have long been a topic for change however, longer has their been a topic that the game shouldn't require a sub. So much so that the game was under 1mil subscribers.
Now they opened up so both subscribers and non-subscribers could play and "support" the game financially.
Because you see value in the subscriber, how can you not see the value in the buyer who doesn't subscribe but pays for crown items.
As results, this decision pushes the non-subscriber who pays the same or more to no longer be a customer at all.
Then what?
The studio closes due to going back to less than 1 mil subscribers but no crown store non-subscribers?
Does it not make better sense to capitalize on both?
-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5013 -
Dahkoht✭✭✭✭✭The irony is absolutely delicious of a certain poster whining about a Zenimax decision and asking others to see their position on why he wants it changed.5 -
Francis_Toliver✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »And that's fine @ShedsHisTail ... not every perk is going to incentivize every player. The point is, ZOS could have added other options to the subscription that weren't "fixes for a broken system".... I have given some examples. Want more? I can give more.
No, @Gidorick I don't need more.
However, I think it's worth noting that just as not every option will incentivize every player, neither will every system fit every play-style. Just because the current system isn't working for you doesn't make it broken.
I don't have any issues with the system as is. Having to manage my bank/inventory space is something I'm capable of doing and it doesn't interfere with how I want to play the game. Your "broken system" works just fine for me and, I imagine, a healthy chunk of the population.
I welcome the crafting bag, it'll be handy. But it's something I, and many others, have been living without just fine for a very long time.
"Works fine" is much different than "works efficiently" @ShedsHisTail . We have dealt with and learned to accept the inventory as it is because that is what we had to do. We had no choice in the matter. Now we have a choice... subscribe and get the new-improved inventory... or don't subscribe and continue with the system that "works fine".
By George I think he GOT it!
That is exactly right! Continue with the system you have (which has worked for 2 years) or shell out 15 bucks a month to have a new improved crafting bag!
The cost of the crafting bag is....wait for it!.....15 dollars a month!
In addition you get all the other benefits of being a subscriber! So either pay the 15 bucks a month for the crafting bag or don't.
If Zos offered me a cool special mount and the price was 15 bucks a month I would consider it and then I would either pay the 15 dollars a month or not! This isn't a market where haggling takes place. The price is what the price is. I could p*ss and moan about the cost of my computer to, or my car! Doesn't change the fact that the cost is the cost.
I would not sit and complain ad nauseum about how the price is to high or should be a one time cost (if I chose to lease) or, or, or.....
Either buy the bag or don't.
Not that hard a problem to solve. Either you want it or you don't. The price has been set. Make your decisions and move on.
Sigh.6 -
EZgoin76✭✭✭✭This thread has been my entertainment the past couple of days. I even commented a couple of times.
First things first. Even after all the post saying the craft bags are unfair, my opinion hasn't changed. Unlimited crafting bags should stay exclusive to eso plus members. That's not to say that I don't agree non-subs should get some type of inventory relief. I really like @Gidorick s idea to sell a craft bag for each individual craft.
Saying that this is to good to give to subscribers and not everyone, that it's game breaking is strictly a matter of personal opinion and nothing more.
The notion that you have already paid for dlc's and other things so subscribing now would be pointless is asinine at best. You still get to keep everything you've already paid for. Subbing now isn't going to take that away. Many posters have already made this clear. I thought...
As for people's subs not working at all. For the first four months of playing this game, I sent multiple support tickets to ZOS and a few e-mails to Microsoft. They finally got me taken care of. I get my crowns like clockwork every month. Most of my friends on live that play and in game friends have also had theirs fixed for them. I'm not saying some people are not still having problems but it isn't nearly as prevalent as it was.
The debates in this thread need some resolution or.... wait no I still need something to keep me entertained at work tomorrow.
I want to change the world. I'm just to lazy to do it.1 -
Francis_Toliver✭✭✭myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »@Gidorick lol
Deliberately trying to not understand the argument?
If it helps think of crafting bags as a crown store rental for 3000 crowns. See, now everyone has access to it
And there @myrrrorb14_ESO , you are being deliberately obtuse. Content rental vs content ownership is the issue here, and you know it.... you should have used this emote ->
Yes, content rental vs content ownership IS the issue. The bag can only be leased. That is the way ZOS has chosen to offer it. They have every right to do so. Your complaints are irrelevant. Its not fair is an irrelevant complaint. The property belongs to ZOS. They have the right to offer it in any form they choose. You have the right to accept their terms or not.
It is not extortion to offer something that belongs to you in any way you wish. It is not immoral to do so. It isn't unethical or even unsavory. The property in question BELONGS to ZOS.
They are choosing to offer it in a lease format. This is a valid and completely acceptable form of business transaction. People do it every day for cars, I-phones (which remain the property of Apple) and so on.
The fairness of an offered product is determined in the marketplace by whether or not it sells. If the product is "unfairly" priced, no one will want to purchase it. If that happens then ZOS will have to evaluate if it would be better "sold" then leased.
The fact that the tittle of this thread is about how "wrong" ZOS is for offering these bags in this way simply shows that the OP has some work to do to learn about ethics, morality and business.
One does not equate "I WANT" with what is right and wrong. At least adults don't.
5 -
Eshelmen✭✭✭✭✭All this effort to try and convince ZOS to change their minds, when it would be more practical to use that effort to make up an extra $15 a month to sub.
Edited by Eshelmen on May 27, 2016 3:19AMPC and PS4 EP only player0 -
Francis_Toliver✭✭✭Lucius_Aelius wrote: »Lucius_Aelius wrote: »Lucius_Aelius wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Lucius_Aelius wrote: »And those of us who buy content outright should not be relegated to being second class citizens to such an extent as this, if that's how they were going to have it then they never should have had different payment methods at all, and should have stuck with Subscriptions only. If they're going to have different payment options then there should be fairness in what is received with each, and the crafting bag is just too good of a perk for it to be fair to have it exclusive.
There is fairness. You have the option to pay significantly less to play the same game.
Sorry. Lower price tag, fewer features. If you pay the same amount or more, then just subscribe. It's not rocket surgery.We who bought content directly shouldn't have to Subscribe just to get access to something that should be available to anyone in the crown store, it undermines the entire notion of having different payment methods, and after having spent so much money buying crowns it would be a waste to just subscribe now, I wouldn't have spent crowns on the same things if I were subscribed and the crowns I did spend would be invalidated by making that change, which I refuse to do.
What you did in the past doesn't matter. This isn't a reward.It's not entitlement to expect to get my money's worth (which is what all Subscribers have been whining about all this time), and switching to a subscription after buying so much directly is utterly wasteful and not at all worth what I've paid for it. ZOS trying to incentivize paying customers to waste our money just to get a single game-changing perk is underhanded, and I'll quit the game sooner than subscribe if ZOS values me so little as a a customer to try and do so.
You got your money's worth. Nothing you bought came with a promised reward in the fine print.
Subscribing now give you access to future content and perks, they aren't asking you to pay for you DLC a second time or applying monthly payments retroactively. You haven't wasted anything.
You're completely missing the point of course, but that's not surprising since so many people are. ZOS offering new content for Subscribers only after so many people already bought so much undermines the entire idea of different payment methods, now just to get this one perk I'd have to Subscribe and keep subscribing, which invalidates all the money I've already spent. And no that's absolutely not irrelevant, it couldn't be more relevant, and ZOS trying to incentivize people to waste their hard-earned money because they decided to change the dynamic this late in the game is entirely underhanded and shows a complete lack of respect to us as customers.
If you still can't understand that then I'm done trying to explain it to you, but you and many others are oversimplifying this issue by saying such things, there's a bigger picture you just refuse to see, and I have better things to do than trying to give sight to the blind.
Again, you are mired in the sunk cost fallacy. You gambled (by assuming that sub-free was a better fit for you) and now it appears you are losing. You can walk away from what it is you think you've lost (by getting a sub) or you can rage at the dealer that the game is rigged (i.e. posting in this thread).
Just because you bought DLC before does not mean you can never sub again, and you very likely saved money in the long run by waiting until ESO+ had a feature you wanted.
It wasn't a gamble, what's wrong with you? It was a logical assessment of the available facts, no gamble involved.
And I had more faith in ZOS than to undermine so profoundly one of the methods they offered me to pay for DLC, so yes I went with what made sense for me, it still is what makes sense for me in every way besides regarding the crafting bag, and I'm not rich enough to just waste my money by subscribing after the fact just for that one perk.
The economics of my choice are irrelevant, the point is that ZOS offered me a payment method that I prefer, allowing and encouraging me to buy their DLC's, only to then change things such that my preferred payment method is suddenly undermined. So long as ZOS offers two payment methods then they need to be balanced reasonably, and it's not reasonable to give Subscribers any perk no matter how good just so ESO+ is more worthwhile even if it screws over the rest of us.
And no it won't save me money in the long run, quite the opposite. I bought everything I want and paid a lot for it, more than if I had subscribed, because it would pay off in the long run (which hasn't had anywhere close to a chance to happen yet). If I subscribed now it would be an overt waste of at least $150, maybe more, and that's not okay for ZOS to force on me if I want this one single perk.
You might not want to call it a gamble, but that's exactly what all of us have done. I gambled that by sticking with my sub that I would get the most value. If I got into a situation where I had to cancel my sub then my gamble would not have paid off as I would lose all my DLC access. It's arguable that my gamble will only really start paying off come Tuesday since the subscriber perks have been pretty underwhelming so far.
Out of curiosity, are you going to buy Dark Brotherhood? Or the new senche mount? If you're going to keep buying crowns and spending more than $15 a month, is there a reason to avoid the sub? Besides the feeling that you lose your sunk costs (even though you do not)?
Oh I'll keep playing the game and buying DLC (as long as the crafting bag is the only thing exclusive to ESO+ I have a problem with then I'll suck it up and play without it), I have everything I want at this point apart from major DLC's yet to be released, and if I only buy those moving forward (and the crafting bag from the crown store if they wise up and put it for sale like they should) then I will eventually reach a point where I'm saving money, and will have the convenience all the while of actually owning everything and not being subject to low cash flow any given month, which is by far my preference.
And like I've said to other people I expect to miss out on perks for not subscribing, but not something this game-changing. ESO+ needed something more to be worthwhile, but this goes too far.
THIS GAME CHANGING!!! THIS GOES TO FAR!!!!!!
What a crock of silliness.
Please allow me to translate:
I want crafting bags.
I don't want to subscribe to get them.
I am sad.
I will now spend many hours on the forums ranting, to express how unhappy I am about this.
End of translation.
I am entertained by this
6 -
ContraTempo✭✭✭✭BrotherChaz wrote: »First of all this post is not intended for ESO+ customers, you have no worries... Also please note: Where I use all caps for some words it is not intended as shouting. It is for EMPHASIS only to make a point. No offense is intended. I hope that this opinion post will not be a source of flaming posts... I just had to say something about a topic I feel strongly about.
But for those of us who have spent a serious ammount of real $$$ on buying the game, all add-on world expansions, mounts, costumes, personal banker, etc. etc.. This needs to be an option available to us also.
The crafting resource bags being available to JUST eso+ people is wrong.
Im sorry but This is a major item(fundumental even) that ALL CHARACTERS need, especially with NEW CRAFTING SYSTEMS/ITEMS being added with the new expansion.
I love the game but this is JUST Wrong. Having to get eso+ JUST to get CRAFTING BAGS feels a little bit like a slap in the face to those like me wh who have spent WAY in excess of the ammount that getting eso+ would have been ... I still have additional items (personal Merchant, New Assasins expansion etc.) I had planned to buy right away...
Sadly despite all the upcoming changes, which I have no problem with, this one most necessary item not being available to ALL LOYAL customers just does not seem right. I love the game but this one thing... well it just is not right.
I can not justify buying more at this point .. please keep in mind I have no problem with eso+ people getting it for free with subscription... My point is that those who have supported the game by purchasing everything up to this point should be allowed to get the much needed option also. Sell it as an option I would buy it even if it were 2000 crowns or whatever.
Sorry it was so long... I just had to say something. I hope this oversight(in my opinion) gets resolved. I hate it when a favorite game becomes less fun because of what the company does to its structure. Its my greatest hope this will not be the case here.
For those who want to say "Well just get eso+" I have to reply: think about it... After buying ALL the addons it just isnt fair to then FEEL FORCED to go mwith eso+ just for craft bags. What about all that money spent on the expansions? Would we be entitled to a refund since these purchased items are now included free? No there needs to be some fair mindedness and common sence applied here.
Thanks for listening. Please no flamers. I just had to get this out. Peace.
I do understand your point. You feel it is wrong to make a necessary game feature available only to one class of people. You feel you have legitimately paid your dues and should not be treated as a second class citizen. To ask for a payment is one thing, but to ban you from getting that feature is unfair.
I get it, I just disagree on several points. First that a craft bag is necessary. As of today everyone has always played without it and made that work. No matter what you argue, that is a fact. Second that ZOS does not have the right to create separate classes of customers. Subscribers are more valuable to them so they offer perks and incentives both to thank subscribers and to encourage more to subscribe. Businesses treat their more valuable customers better. If we were talking about RL politics I'd be right there with you but the fact is, we are not citizens of Tamriel, we are customers. Third, non-subscribers, on average, give ZOS less money. Thus you get fewer perks. That's business.
I see this as akin to looking at the perks people get for being in an airline club (e.g. American Airlines Admiral's Club) and complaining that you can't purchase those perks without subscribing. Yes, they to go into a private lounge and relax away from the crowds while you have to tough it out in the terminal. You might see their access to plenty of power outlets and people ready to solve any ticketing issues they have as necessary. But most people get along without those services and the people who do get them pay for them. And for just 500 simoleons a year, you can have those perks too.ContraTempo
Carpe DM
Seize the Dungeon Master3 -
Funkopotamus✭✭✭✭✭BrotherChaz wrote: »The crafting resource bags being available to JUST eso+ people is wrong.
Im sorry but This is a major item(fundumental even) that ALL CHARACTERS need,.
That is totally "Wrong" as players have been able to play and enjoy the game perfectly fine without those bags. It is a "W.A.N.T" not a N.E.E.D...
ESO+ members need stuff like this to justify the monthly charge as it is already.. I personally wish SUB Fee was never switched to BTP.
Nothing about Crafting bags is a NEED it is simply a quality of gameplay increase for those that support the game monthly and do not cherry pick from the cash shop.!!Edited by Funkopotamus on May 27, 2016 3:43AMAnything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!" Sallington5 -
AmberLaTerra✭✭✭✭The real answer to this is simple. The bags should stay ESO+ because subs need a perk.
Look at every other game on the market that has both Free and Sub options. In most of them the subs either have access to many areas of play, ways to gain far faster xp (up to triple xp rates in some games or more), unique skills or more powerful gear. All things that could be considered P2W.
Here subs will be getting a perk that is in no way game breaking or P2W but simple a perk. Non subs and subs both have functioned fine for two years without craft bags and non subs can easily continue without them, they are in no way changing the game for non subs by being given to subs.
Would you prefer that Subs instead get some kind of P2W perk, or a unique DLC exclusive to them?
I know I would not as a sub I like that non subs still have the same content, and ability to play as I have, and I like that I am getting a perk that is merely a convenience item and not something that makes me able to do things that exclude non sub players.
However the way these posts keep popping up does make me almost reconsider that last view point.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
CP 365 Nord DK DPS EP
CP 365 Imperal DK Stam Tank EP
Level 9 Imperial Stam Templar EP
Cp 365 Khajiit Stam Blade EP
For the glory of the Pact3 -
Funkopotamus✭✭✭✭✭The irony is absolutely delicious of a certain poster whining about a Zenimax decision and asking others to see their position on why he wants it changed.
You have NO IDEA how delicious these post are too lol.
But I stand with ZOS on this one though. Pay up people stop cherry picking from the cash shop if you are that upset that ESO+ members are getting a quality of gameplay increase. It is not a NEED it is a WANT.
There were plenty of people that left over consoles not getting text chat and ZOS survived that hit, so I think ZOS will survive if a few players leave over not getting a virtual purse to hold crafting items in.. YYeeeahhh ZOS will just keep on trucking.
Edited by Funkopotamus on May 27, 2016 4:42AMAnything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!" Sallington2 -
Lucius_Aelius✭✭✭✭Francis_Toliver wrote: »Lucius_Aelius wrote: »Lucius_Aelius wrote: »Lucius_Aelius wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Lucius_Aelius wrote: »And those of us who buy content outright should not be relegated to being second class citizens to such an extent as this, if that's how they were going to have it then they never should have had different payment methods at all, and should have stuck with Subscriptions only. If they're going to have different payment options then there should be fairness in what is received with each, and the crafting bag is just too good of a perk for it to be fair to have it exclusive.
There is fairness. You have the option to pay significantly less to play the same game.
Sorry. Lower price tag, fewer features. If you pay the same amount or more, then just subscribe. It's not rocket surgery.We who bought content directly shouldn't have to Subscribe just to get access to something that should be available to anyone in the crown store, it undermines the entire notion of having different payment methods, and after having spent so much money buying crowns it would be a waste to just subscribe now, I wouldn't have spent crowns on the same things if I were subscribed and the crowns I did spend would be invalidated by making that change, which I refuse to do.
What you did in the past doesn't matter. This isn't a reward.It's not entitlement to expect to get my money's worth (which is what all Subscribers have been whining about all this time), and switching to a subscription after buying so much directly is utterly wasteful and not at all worth what I've paid for it. ZOS trying to incentivize paying customers to waste our money just to get a single game-changing perk is underhanded, and I'll quit the game sooner than subscribe if ZOS values me so little as a a customer to try and do so.
You got your money's worth. Nothing you bought came with a promised reward in the fine print.
Subscribing now give you access to future content and perks, they aren't asking you to pay for you DLC a second time or applying monthly payments retroactively. You haven't wasted anything.
You're completely missing the point of course, but that's not surprising since so many people are. ZOS offering new content for Subscribers only after so many people already bought so much undermines the entire idea of different payment methods, now just to get this one perk I'd have to Subscribe and keep subscribing, which invalidates all the money I've already spent. And no that's absolutely not irrelevant, it couldn't be more relevant, and ZOS trying to incentivize people to waste their hard-earned money because they decided to change the dynamic this late in the game is entirely underhanded and shows a complete lack of respect to us as customers.
If you still can't understand that then I'm done trying to explain it to you, but you and many others are oversimplifying this issue by saying such things, there's a bigger picture you just refuse to see, and I have better things to do than trying to give sight to the blind.
Again, you are mired in the sunk cost fallacy. You gambled (by assuming that sub-free was a better fit for you) and now it appears you are losing. You can walk away from what it is you think you've lost (by getting a sub) or you can rage at the dealer that the game is rigged (i.e. posting in this thread).
Just because you bought DLC before does not mean you can never sub again, and you very likely saved money in the long run by waiting until ESO+ had a feature you wanted.
It wasn't a gamble, what's wrong with you? It was a logical assessment of the available facts, no gamble involved.
And I had more faith in ZOS than to undermine so profoundly one of the methods they offered me to pay for DLC, so yes I went with what made sense for me, it still is what makes sense for me in every way besides regarding the crafting bag, and I'm not rich enough to just waste my money by subscribing after the fact just for that one perk.
The economics of my choice are irrelevant, the point is that ZOS offered me a payment method that I prefer, allowing and encouraging me to buy their DLC's, only to then change things such that my preferred payment method is suddenly undermined. So long as ZOS offers two payment methods then they need to be balanced reasonably, and it's not reasonable to give Subscribers any perk no matter how good just so ESO+ is more worthwhile even if it screws over the rest of us.
And no it won't save me money in the long run, quite the opposite. I bought everything I want and paid a lot for it, more than if I had subscribed, because it would pay off in the long run (which hasn't had anywhere close to a chance to happen yet). If I subscribed now it would be an overt waste of at least $150, maybe more, and that's not okay for ZOS to force on me if I want this one single perk.
You might not want to call it a gamble, but that's exactly what all of us have done. I gambled that by sticking with my sub that I would get the most value. If I got into a situation where I had to cancel my sub then my gamble would not have paid off as I would lose all my DLC access. It's arguable that my gamble will only really start paying off come Tuesday since the subscriber perks have been pretty underwhelming so far.
Out of curiosity, are you going to buy Dark Brotherhood? Or the new senche mount? If you're going to keep buying crowns and spending more than $15 a month, is there a reason to avoid the sub? Besides the feeling that you lose your sunk costs (even though you do not)?
Oh I'll keep playing the game and buying DLC (as long as the crafting bag is the only thing exclusive to ESO+ I have a problem with then I'll suck it up and play without it), I have everything I want at this point apart from major DLC's yet to be released, and if I only buy those moving forward (and the crafting bag from the crown store if they wise up and put it for sale like they should) then I will eventually reach a point where I'm saving money, and will have the convenience all the while of actually owning everything and not being subject to low cash flow any given month, which is by far my preference.
And like I've said to other people I expect to miss out on perks for not subscribing, but not something this game-changing. ESO+ needed something more to be worthwhile, but this goes too far.
THIS GAME CHANGING!!! THIS GOES TO FAR!!!!!!
What a crock of silliness.
Please allow me to translate:
I want crafting bags.
I don't want to subscribe to get them.
I am sad.
I will now spend many hours on the forums ranting, to express how unhappy I am about this.
End of translation.
I am entertained by this
I'm glad people trying to have a logical discussion is so entertaining for you, but if that's your takeaway from all this then methinks you need to leave such discussions to adults and take your childish attitude and lack of understanding of this discussion elsewhere.Daggerfall Covenant - Scourge (Xbox NA) - GT: Lucius Aelius - Lord - 648CP
Lucius Aelius Aurelius - 50 Imperial Dragonknight - Centurion - Stam Tank
Lucius Aelius Valerius - 50 Imperial Templar - Lieutenant - Mag Heal/DPS
Lucius Aelius Regulus - 50 Imperial Nightblade - First Sergeant - Stam DPS
Lucius Aelius Augustus - 50 Imperial Sorcerer - Corporal - Mag DPS
Wags-His-Tail - 20 Argonian Sorcerer - Recruit - TBD
Holds-The-Line - 40 Argonian Dragonknight - Recruit - TBD
Carries-Extra-Gear - 4 Argonian Dragonknight - Recruit - TBD
Guildmaster - Wardens of the Covenant
Group Leader - xpThe Guildxp
Trader - Secret Sauce
Trader - Elite Dungeoneers2 -
Lucius_Aelius✭✭✭✭newtinmpls wrote: »Lucius_Aelius wrote: »It's not entitlement to expect to get my money's worth (which is what all Subscribers have been whining about all this time), and switching to a subscription after buying so much directly is utterly wasteful and not at all worth what I've paid for it.
What you got for the money you already paid has not changed.Lucius_Aelius wrote: »ZOS trying to incentivize paying customers to waste our money just to get a single game-changing perk is underhanded, and I'll quit the game sooner than subscribe if ZOS values me so little as a a customer to try and do so.
From the very start, ZoS wanted to use a subscription model for reasons that they explained early on (and I'm not going to bother to recreate). The idea that they are at long last offering a sub-benefit that manages to be both
1-not pay to win
and
2-desirable enough to stir up such an intense reaction (joy/frustration/all of it)
seems .... well really overdue, frankly.
Again, the point goes right over yet another person's head... Well I'm done repeating myself so I refer you back to every other post I've made for my rebuttal.Daggerfall Covenant - Scourge (Xbox NA) - GT: Lucius Aelius - Lord - 648CP
Lucius Aelius Aurelius - 50 Imperial Dragonknight - Centurion - Stam Tank
Lucius Aelius Valerius - 50 Imperial Templar - Lieutenant - Mag Heal/DPS
Lucius Aelius Regulus - 50 Imperial Nightblade - First Sergeant - Stam DPS
Lucius Aelius Augustus - 50 Imperial Sorcerer - Corporal - Mag DPS
Wags-His-Tail - 20 Argonian Sorcerer - Recruit - TBD
Holds-The-Line - 40 Argonian Dragonknight - Recruit - TBD
Carries-Extra-Gear - 4 Argonian Dragonknight - Recruit - TBD
Guildmaster - Wardens of the Covenant
Group Leader - xpThe Guildxp
Trader - Secret Sauce
Trader - Elite Dungeoneers2 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »Lucius_Aelius wrote: »And those of us who buy content outright should not be relegated to being second class citizens to such an extent as this, if that's how they were going to have it then they never should have had different payment methods at all, and should have stuck with Subscriptions only. If they're going to have different payment options then there should be fairness in what is received with each, and the crafting bag is just too good of a perk for it to be fair to have it exclusive.
There is fairness. You have the option to pay significantly less to play the same game.
Sorry. Lower price tag, fewer features. If you pay the same amount or more, then just subscribe. It's not rocket surgery.We who bought content directly shouldn't have to Subscribe just to get access to something that should be available to anyone in the crown store, it undermines the entire notion of having different payment methods, and after having spent so much money buying crowns it would be a waste to just subscribe now, I wouldn't have spent crowns on the same things if I were subscribed and the crowns I did spend would be invalidated by making that change, which I refuse to do.
What you did in the past doesn't matter. This isn't a reward.It's not entitlement to expect to get my money's worth (which is what all Subscribers have been whining about all this time), and switching to a subscription after buying so much directly is utterly wasteful and not at all worth what I've paid for it. ZOS trying to incentivize paying customers to waste our money just to get a single game-changing perk is underhanded, and I'll quit the game sooner than subscribe if ZOS values me so little as a a customer to try and do so.
You got your money's worth. Nothing you bought came with a promised reward in the fine print.
Subscribing now give you access to future content and perks, they aren't asking you to pay for you DLC a second time or applying monthly payments retroactively. You haven't wasted anything.
This says it all pretty well,I think.4 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lucius_Aelius wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Lucius_Aelius wrote: »And those of us who buy content outright should not be relegated to being second class citizens to such an extent as this, if that's how they were going to have it then they never should have had different payment methods at all, and should have stuck with Subscriptions only. If they're going to have different payment options then there should be fairness in what is received with each, and the crafting bag is just too good of a perk for it to be fair to have it exclusive.
There is fairness. You have the option to pay significantly less to play the same game.
Sorry. Lower price tag, fewer features. If you pay the same amount or more, then just subscribe. It's not rocket surgery.We who bought content directly shouldn't have to Subscribe just to get access to something that should be available to anyone in the crown store, it undermines the entire notion of having different payment methods, and after having spent so much money buying crowns it would be a waste to just subscribe now, I wouldn't have spent crowns on the same things if I were subscribed and the crowns I did spend would be invalidated by making that change, which I refuse to do.
What you did in the past doesn't matter. This isn't a reward.It's not entitlement to expect to get my money's worth (which is what all Subscribers have been whining about all this time), and switching to a subscription after buying so much directly is utterly wasteful and not at all worth what I've paid for it. ZOS trying to incentivize paying customers to waste our money just to get a single game-changing perk is underhanded, and I'll quit the game sooner than subscribe if ZOS values me so little as a a customer to try and do so.
You got your money's worth. Nothing you bought came with a promised reward in the fine print.
Subscribing now give you access to future content and perks, they aren't asking you to pay for you DLC a second time or applying monthly payments retroactively. You haven't wasted anything.
You're completely missing the point of course, but that's not surprising since so many people are. ZOS offering new content for Subscribers only after so many people already bought so much undermines the entire idea of different payment methods, now just to get this one perk I'd have to Subscribe and keep subscribing, which invalidates all the money I've already spent. And no that's absolutely not irrelevant, it couldn't be more relevant, and ZOS trying to incentivize people to waste their hard-earned money because they decided to change the dynamic this late in the game is entirely underhanded and shows a complete lack of respect to us as customers.
If you still can't understand that then I'm done trying to explain it to you, but you and many others are oversimplifying this issue by saying such things, there's a bigger picture you just refuse to see, and I have better things to do than trying to give sight to the blind.
Did you stop to think that if so many people arent getting what you wish to point out it is because they dont agree or see it your way. You arent right just because you say you are.
Others have their own opinions about it.6 -
Pomaikai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nope. Now quit whining.
And our next contestant in the Crafting Bag Whinge-a-Thon is...... <insert new qq thread here>Edited by Pomaikai on May 27, 2016 4:52AM0 -
Lucius_Aelius✭✭✭✭Lucius_Aelius wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Lucius_Aelius wrote: »And those of us who buy content outright should not be relegated to being second class citizens to such an extent as this, if that's how they were going to have it then they never should have had different payment methods at all, and should have stuck with Subscriptions only. If they're going to have different payment options then there should be fairness in what is received with each, and the crafting bag is just too good of a perk for it to be fair to have it exclusive.
There is fairness. You have the option to pay significantly less to play the same game.
Sorry. Lower price tag, fewer features. If you pay the same amount or more, then just subscribe. It's not rocket surgery.We who bought content directly shouldn't have to Subscribe just to get access to something that should be available to anyone in the crown store, it undermines the entire notion of having different payment methods, and after having spent so much money buying crowns it would be a waste to just subscribe now, I wouldn't have spent crowns on the same things if I were subscribed and the crowns I did spend would be invalidated by making that change, which I refuse to do.
What you did in the past doesn't matter. This isn't a reward.It's not entitlement to expect to get my money's worth (which is what all Subscribers have been whining about all this time), and switching to a subscription after buying so much directly is utterly wasteful and not at all worth what I've paid for it. ZOS trying to incentivize paying customers to waste our money just to get a single game-changing perk is underhanded, and I'll quit the game sooner than subscribe if ZOS values me so little as a a customer to try and do so.
You got your money's worth. Nothing you bought came with a promised reward in the fine print.
Subscribing now give you access to future content and perks, they aren't asking you to pay for you DLC a second time or applying monthly payments retroactively. You haven't wasted anything.
You're completely missing the point of course, but that's not surprising since so many people are. ZOS offering new content for Subscribers only after so many people already bought so much undermines the entire idea of different payment methods, now just to get this one perk I'd have to Subscribe and keep subscribing, which invalidates all the money I've already spent. And no that's absolutely not irrelevant, it couldn't be more relevant, and ZOS trying to incentivize people to waste their hard-earned money because they decided to change the dynamic this late in the game is entirely underhanded and shows a complete lack of respect to us as customers.
If you still can't understand that then I'm done trying to explain it to you, but you and many others are oversimplifying this issue by saying such things, there's a bigger picture you just refuse to see, and I have better things to do than trying to give sight to the blind.
Did you stop to think that if so many people arent getting what you wish to point out it is because they dont agree or see it your way. You arent right just because you say you are.
Others have their own opinions about it.
The thing is though that there are a number of valid points I have which people are completely disregarding as being valid, even if those points being valid doesn't make me right it's still foolish of people not to recognize simple logic when it's presented to them, and the subtleties are being lost on so many people it's just sad.Daggerfall Covenant - Scourge (Xbox NA) - GT: Lucius Aelius - Lord - 648CP
Lucius Aelius Aurelius - 50 Imperial Dragonknight - Centurion - Stam Tank
Lucius Aelius Valerius - 50 Imperial Templar - Lieutenant - Mag Heal/DPS
Lucius Aelius Regulus - 50 Imperial Nightblade - First Sergeant - Stam DPS
Lucius Aelius Augustus - 50 Imperial Sorcerer - Corporal - Mag DPS
Wags-His-Tail - 20 Argonian Sorcerer - Recruit - TBD
Holds-The-Line - 40 Argonian Dragonknight - Recruit - TBD
Carries-Extra-Gear - 4 Argonian Dragonknight - Recruit - TBD
Guildmaster - Wardens of the Covenant
Group Leader - xpThe Guildxp
Trader - Secret Sauce
Trader - Elite Dungeoneers2 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Many people have a misunderstanding of a few comments.
Using crowns to buy anything that ESO plus offers as a benefits slides the $15/month to solely being paying for non-DLC benefits.
Folks....
Subscriber (who didn't buy DLC)
-their $15 gives them all benefits of ESO plus, old and new and with a new benefit, is more of a reason to start or keep subscribing.
Non-subscriber (who does own DLC)
-their $15/month is seen as paying mostly for a new feature which we all agree is not worth $10-$15/month.
That's the context that should be understood.
It's not about what anyone assumes or is trying to argue regarding where ZOS may value any customer type.
Also, the non-subscriber is not suggesting to demote, reduce or negate the current ESO plus old and new benefits. The non-subscriber just wants some type of way to access another form of the crafting bag as its a base game feature per ZOS. ZOS still has on the website that all base game feature updates will not require ESO plus. So the discussion revolves there....
I even don't think the non-sub bag should be unlimited but the bag should be available in some other form and means of access.-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5012 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lucius_Aelius wrote: »Lucius_Aelius wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Lucius_Aelius wrote: »And those of us who buy content outright should not be relegated to being second class citizens to such an extent as this, if that's how they were going to have it then they never should have had different payment methods at all, and should have stuck with Subscriptions only. If they're going to have different payment options then there should be fairness in what is received with each, and the crafting bag is just too good of a perk for it to be fair to have it exclusive.
There is fairness. You have the option to pay significantly less to play the same game.
Sorry. Lower price tag, fewer features. If you pay the same amount or more, then just subscribe. It's not rocket surgery.We who bought content directly shouldn't have to Subscribe just to get access to something that should be available to anyone in the crown store, it undermines the entire notion of having different payment methods, and after having spent so much money buying crowns it would be a waste to just subscribe now, I wouldn't have spent crowns on the same things if I were subscribed and the crowns I did spend would be invalidated by making that change, which I refuse to do.
What you did in the past doesn't matter. This isn't a reward.It's not entitlement to expect to get my money's worth (which is what all Subscribers have been whining about all this time), and switching to a subscription after buying so much directly is utterly wasteful and not at all worth what I've paid for it. ZOS trying to incentivize paying customers to waste our money just to get a single game-changing perk is underhanded, and I'll quit the game sooner than subscribe if ZOS values me so little as a a customer to try and do so.
You got your money's worth. Nothing you bought came with a promised reward in the fine print.
Subscribing now give you access to future content and perks, they aren't asking you to pay for you DLC a second time or applying monthly payments retroactively. You haven't wasted anything.
You're completely missing the point of course, but that's not surprising since so many people are. ZOS offering new content for Subscribers only after so many people already bought so much undermines the entire idea of different payment methods, now just to get this one perk I'd have to Subscribe and keep subscribing, which invalidates all the money I've already spent. And no that's absolutely not irrelevant, it couldn't be more relevant, and ZOS trying to incentivize people to waste their hard-earned money because they decided to change the dynamic this late in the game is entirely underhanded and shows a complete lack of respect to us as customers.
If you still can't understand that then I'm done trying to explain it to you, but you and many others are oversimplifying this issue by saying such things, there's a bigger picture you just refuse to see, and I have better things to do than trying to give sight to the blind.
Did you stop to think that if so many people arent getting what you wish to point out it is because they dont agree or see it your way. You arent right just because you say you are.
Others have their own opinions about it.
The thing is though that there are a number of valid points I have which people are completely disregarding as being valid, even if those points being valid doesn't make me right it's still foolish of people not to recognize simple logic when it's presented to them, and the subtleties are being lost on so many people it's just sad.
It's still that those people dont "have" to see your points as valid,even though you do.Do you always recognize someone else's theories as valid?
When people dont see eye to eye,they have to see it in the end,and accept that. I do that occasionally.
When someone wants to argue their point into the dust,eventually,I have to just give in and let them have the day.No skin off my back. 2
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