Does nobody else see how wrong this is? (craft bags)

Gidorick · May 2016

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

Inventory is something many of us have complained about since the beginning. It would be as if ZOS added...
Console text chat... but only for subscribers.
A lag-free version of Cyrodiil that's accessible only to subscribers.
The upcoming grouping tools... exclusively to subscribers.
A Subscriber-Only Auction House.

Inventory has been addressed many times. They increased stack size, reduced provisioning materials, and added bank/personal slots. It is something that can be addressed as the game goes on and more materials are added to the game. Some people will fill up their inventory even if they had a thousand slots.

Your comparison is flawed. It would not be the same as your examples. Your examples are basic game play, whereas crafting bags are merely a convenience. Something that is nice, saves time, but has no significance on actual game play.

Console text chat is not basic gameplay @myrrrorb14_ESO ... they have been playing for almost a year without it and they are still playing.

People are still playing in Cyrodiil and for many people it "Works fine" (to steal a phrase from @ShedsHisTail

), so I don't see how adding a separate, lag-free version would be anything more than a more convenient, effective version of PVP.

Not everyone likes to play in groups and people have been playing in groups from the beginning of the game... so better grouping tools wouldn't change the game of those that have been playing all along...

Same with the subscriber-only auction house. The existing system, which we have bene using all along, would still work... subscribers would get one that's a little more "convenient".

Maybe to you inventory management is a matter of convenience, but to many of us it is a basic quality of life issue. I don't see how that's any different from my examples.

dimensional · May 2016

The inventory management is just fine as it is. The crafting bags are a mere convenience item.

ShedsHisTail · May 2016

@Gidorick
Don't go implying I said things I didn't say.
I never said there wasn't room for improvement, I simply said they system, as is, isn't "broken."

Volkodav · May 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

And that's fine @ShedsHisTail ... not every perk is going to incentivize every player. The point is, ZOS could have added other options to the subscription that weren't "fixes for a broken system".... I have given some examples. Want more? I can give more.

No, @Gidorick I don't need more.
However, I think it's worth noting that just as not every option will incentivize every player, neither will every system fit every play-style. Just because the current system isn't working for you doesn't make it broken.

I don't have any issues with the system as is. Having to manage my bank/inventory space is something I'm capable of doing and it doesn't interfere with how I want to play the game. Your "broken system" works just fine for me and, I imagine, a healthy chunk of the population.

I welcome the crafting bag, it'll be handy. But it's something I, and many others, have been living without just fine for a very long time.

"Works fine" is much different than "works efficiently" @ShedsHisTail . We have dealt with and learned to accept the inventory as it is because that is what we had to do. We had no choice in the matter. Now we have a choice... subscribe and get the new-improved inventory... or don't subscribe and continue with the system that "works fine".

Thing is,many people who were irritated about the inventory problems didnt go all ballistic about it.Now they are rising up and feeling cheated,that the inventory as it is "breaks the game",and yet it never broke anything before this new option is available.
I am one of those who is fine with the inventory as it is. The bags would be cool,but,since I have paid a whopping 50 some thousand gold ingame for bag upgrades,it kinda seems as if it comes a bit too late.I could have saved all that gold if I had known about the bags,but I didnt until after I paid for the upgrades,and also the upgrades from the crown store.
Still,if I didnt get any bags I'd be fine with that.

Gidorick · May 2016

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

And that's fine @ShedsHisTail ... not every perk is going to incentivize every player. The point is, ZOS could have added other options to the subscription that weren't "fixes for a broken system".... I have given some examples. Want more? I can give more.

No, @Gidorick I don't need more.
However, I think it's worth noting that just as not every option will incentivize every player, neither will every system fit every play-style. Just because the current system isn't working for you doesn't make it broken.

I don't have any issues with the system as is. Having to manage my bank/inventory space is something I'm capable of doing and it doesn't interfere with how I want to play the game. Your "broken system" works just fine for me and, I imagine, a healthy chunk of the population.

I welcome the crafting bag, it'll be handy. But it's something I, and many others, have been living without just fine for a very long time.

"Works fine" is much different than "works efficiently" @ShedsHisTail . We have dealt with and learned to accept the inventory as it is because that is what we had to do. We had no choice in the matter. Now we have a choice... subscribe and get the new-improved inventory... or don't subscribe and continue with the system that "works fine".

And "broken" is much different than "inconvenient."
Ever considered that inventories are deliberately kept small because the creators don't want towns an cities to be perpetually deserted because no one ever has to visit?

I'll agree my use of the word broken was an exaggeration @ShedsHisTail , I would say that the inventory is an irritance ... something that has been a festering itch from just about day one for me. It's that tickling, nagging sensation that just wont go away no matter how much you scratch at it.

I really think everyone who is claiming to not understand our perspective is being deliberately insular. I feel like people, at this point, are just seeing how upset they can make people and they are just poking the bees nest, so to speak.

All that is fine. Poke away. No amount of you trying to justify ZOS' tactics will make me see these inventory bags as anything more than them trying to turn their crap-tastic inventory issue into a source of easily extortable revenue.

Oops... there I go exaggerating again. Oh well, I'm human. Being as such I'm prone to let my emotions get the best of me from time to time.

As for the reasoning behind I'm not going to get into a discussion about the suppositions about game design with you on this thread @ShedsHisTail. If you want to do that, we can start another thread.

myrrrorb14_ESO · May 2016

@Gidorick lol

Deliberately trying to not understand the argument?

If it helps think of crafting bags as a crown store rental for 3000 crowns. See, now everyone has access to it

IrishGirlGamer · May 2016

This is so funny. I've been out of the country for two weeks, come back, and this is first thread I see - and I think there were two on the forum when I left.

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

And that's fine @ShedsHisTail ... not every perk is going to incentivize every player. The point is, ZOS could have added other options to the subscription that weren't "fixes for a broken system".... I have given some examples. Want more? I can give more.

No, @Gidorick I don't need more.
However, I think it's worth noting that just as not every option will incentivize every player, neither will every system fit every play-style. Just because the current system isn't working for you doesn't make it broken.

I don't have any issues with the system as is. Having to manage my bank/inventory space is something I'm capable of doing and it doesn't interfere with how I want to play the game. Your "broken system" works just fine for me and, I imagine, a healthy chunk of the population.

I welcome the crafting bag, it'll be handy. But it's something I, and many others, have been living without just fine for a very long time.

"Works fine" is much different than "works efficiently" @ShedsHisTail . We have dealt with and learned to accept the inventory as it is because that is what we had to do. We had no choice in the matter. Now we have a choice... subscribe and get the new-improved inventory... or don't subscribe and continue with the system that "works fine".

And "broken" is much different than "inconvenient."
Ever considered that inventories are deliberately kept small because the creators don't want towns an cities to be perpetually deserted because no one ever has to visit?

Actually, inventories were kept small for a reason. I can't remember which developer it was, but back when ESO was released, the players complained about the limit on bank and bag spaces, and he said: "There's a show for people like you" (e.g. Hoarders). It was done to force players to make choices.

It's a good decision by Zenimax, if the goal is to get people to pay for subs. Fairness has nothing to do with this. There is no moral reason why you should be guaranteed a particular luxury. They are available to everyone who is willing to pay the sub fee. Yoda says:

Lucius_Aelius · May 2016

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

I agree that this isn't something that should be exclusive to ESO+, these Crafting Bags will fundamentally alter the way people who use them play the game significantly for the better, and to say that all the players who pay money directly for DLC's shouldn't have the option to buy this also is a slap in the face to all of us.

I understand and agree that there isn't nearly enough of an incentive to buy ESO+ currently but that doesn't justify adding something this important and giving it only to Subscribers, two wrongs do not make a right and while it's wrong to have ESO+ not be more rewarding it's also wrong to give them something that should be available to everyone just to appease Subscribers and incentivize more people to Subscribe.

This incident really makes me question the validity and practicality of offering two different payment methods for DLC's in the first place, and if this is how hard ZOS is going to push to emphasize Subscribing as the superior option then I think it was a mistake to ever drop the Subscription model. If they are going to continue to have these two alternatives coexist, then they need to be equitably implemented, and while it was unfairly balanced before against Subscribing, now it's going to be unfairly balanced in favor of Subscribing, and while I fully understand all the Subscribers who selfishly want this to stay for them alone, that isn't remotely fair or reasonable for the rest of us.

Just because ESO+ people were getting the shaft before doesn't mean everyone else should be getting the shaft now just to compensate, and that seems to be the rationale behind a lot of people's arguments, that ESO+ is and should be the better option and anyone too cheap to use it can suck it, and that you deserve anything you can get just to make ESO+ actually be worth your money. Newsflash, you don't, we all deserve access to such fundamentally important and game-changing additions, including people who have no interest in Subscribing but who have and will continue to buy DLC content outright.

If they want ESO+ to be more worthwhile then there are lots of other ways they could improve it that won't deprive everyone else of such important content, and anyone saying that the crafting bags finally justify their Subscription and should stay exclusive should be spending their time doing something more useful and coming up with other ways they can get their money's worth that doesn't screw over the rest of us. Seriously that isn't even a valid argument in the least, that's like saying it's not fair that Women don't get equal pay and suggesting that the solution is to give them even more than Men, which is patently ridiculous. You can't fix something that's broken by going overboard in the other direction, it fixes nothing and just stirs up trouble.

You say there are better ways to make ESO+ worthwhile, can you give some? Really give some, where someone else like yourself, doesn't say's its unfair I want that too, but I don't want to support the game to get it.

This is not fundamental to the game, its convenient, everyone who's played from launch has done so without the crafting bag, so it being fundamental to the game, is fundamentally wrong based on the evidence of the last two years without this convenience.

If this convenience is wanted so badly by many players, may be they will see the benefits of subscribing, which will be a win for the game.

Its nice though that you think people who are supporting the game are screwing you over though.

I didn't say it was fundamental to the game, I said it fundamentally alters the way people who have it play the game, which is slightly but notably different. Technically you're correct that it's a convenience item, but the degree to which it is a convenience item is significant and dramatic. It's like saying riding the bus versus walking is a convenience item, which it is to be sure, it doesn't get you anywhere you couldn't go without but it gets you there 100 times faster and as such cannot merely be dismissed as such.

It's more than just convenient, it's completely game-changing for the people who get to use it, it's disgusting how much time I have to spend managing my Inventory and I don't even keep nearly as many mats as I would like to as a budding master crafter.

As far as ideas to make ESO+ more worthwhile, there are any number of options. I'd be fine with all the current bonuses (minus crowns per month) being doubled, not my first choice but it's better than having crafting bags be exclusive, which would be in and of itself more of a bonus than every other bonus combined. Also things like the Assistants should have been free for ESO+ members, I don't know what ZOS was thinking by not doing that.

And that's just for starters, but I'm not interested in Subscribing so it's not my job to think of bonuses that should be added for it. My only concern is that ESO+ members not be given such game-changing things as exclusives, anything ESO+ members get for free with the subscription (apart from Gold and XP bonuses and reduced research times and the like, which can't effectively be sold separately) should be available for sale in the crown store as a standalone purchase.

I'd be fine with it being expensive so long as the option is there, but trying to force people to Subscribe when that's not our preferred payment method is subversive and unfair, it undermines the entire notion of having different payment methods and makes those of us who have invested so much money buying DLC's outright feel like we're being shortchanged. Which payment method is more economical is entirely beside the point, it's what I chose because I felt it was best for me, and the option shouldn't have even been there if people like me are going to be treated like second-class citizens to such a profound extent as this.

Volkodav · May 2016

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

I agree that this isn't something that should be exclusive to ESO+, these Crafting Bags will fundamentally alter the way people who use them play the game significantly for the better, and to say that all the players who pay money directly for DLC's shouldn't have the option to buy this also is a slap in the face to all of us.

I understand and agree that there isn't nearly enough of an incentive to buy ESO+ currently but that doesn't justify adding something this important and giving it only to Subscribers, two wrongs do not make a right and while it's wrong to have ESO+ not be more rewarding it's also wrong to give them something that should be available to everyone just to appease Subscribers and incentivize more people to Subscribe.

This incident really makes me question the validity and practicality of offering two different payment methods for DLC's in the first place, and if this is how hard ZOS is going to push to emphasize Subscribing as the superior option then I think it was a mistake to ever drop the Subscription model. If they are going to continue to have these two alternatives coexist, then they need to be equitably implemented, and while it was unfairly balanced before against Subscribing, now it's going to be unfairly balanced in favor of Subscribing, and while I fully understand all the Subscribers who selfishly want this to stay for them alone, that isn't remotely fair or reasonable for the rest of us.

Just because ESO+ people were getting the shaft before doesn't mean everyone else should be getting the shaft now just to compensate, and that seems to be the rationale behind a lot of people's arguments, that ESO+ is and should be the better option and anyone too cheap to use it can suck it, and that you deserve anything you can get just to make ESO+ actually be worth your money. Newsflash, you don't, we all deserve access to such fundamentally important and game-changing additions, including people who have no interest in Subscribing but who have and will continue to buy DLC content outright.

If they want ESO+ to be more worthwhile then there are lots of other ways they could improve it that won't deprive everyone else of such important content, and anyone saying that the crafting bags finally justify their Subscription and should stay exclusive should be spending their time doing something more useful and coming up with other ways they can get their money's worth that doesn't screw over the rest of us. Seriously that isn't even a valid argument in the least, that's like saying it's not fair that Women don't get equal pay and suggesting that the solution is to give them even more than Men, which is patently ridiculous. You can't fix something that's broken by going overboard in the other direction, it fixes nothing and just stirs up trouble.

You say there are better ways to make ESO+ worthwhile, can you give some? Really give some, where someone else like yourself, doesn't say's its unfair I want that too, but I don't want to support the game to get it.

This is not fundamental to the game, its convenient, everyone who's played from launch has done so without the crafting bag, so it being fundamental to the game, is fundamentally wrong based on the evidence of the last two years without this convenience.

If this convenience is wanted so badly by many players, may be they will see the benefits of subscribing, which will be a win for the game.

Its nice though that you think people who are supporting the game are screwing you over though.

I didn't say it was fundamental to the game, I said it fundamentally alters the way people who have it play the game, which is slightly but notably different. Technically you're correct that it's a convenience item, but the degree to which it is a convenience item is significant and dramatic. It's like saying riding the bus versus walking is a convenience item, which it is to be sure, it doesn't get you anywhere you couldn't go without but it gets you there 100 times faster and as such cannot merely be dismissed as such.

It's more than just convenient, it's completely game-changing for the people who get to use it, it's disgusting how much time I have to spend managing my Inventory and I don't even keep nearly as many mats as I would like to as a budding master crafter.

As far as ideas to make ESO+ more worthwhile, there are any number of options. I'd be fine with all the current bonuses (minus crowns per month) being doubled, not my first choice but it's better than having crafting bags be exclusive, which would be in and of itself more of a bonus than every other bonus combined. Also things like the Assistants should have been free for ESO+ members, I don't know what ZOS was thinking by not doing that.

And that's just for starters, but I'm not interested in Subscribing so it's not my job to think of bonuses that should be added for it. My only concern is that ESO+ members not be given such game-changing things as exclusives, anything ESO+ members get for free with the subscription (apart from Gold and XP bonuses and reduced research times and the like, which can't effectively be sold separately) should be available for sale in the crown store as a standalone purchase.

I'd be fine with it being expensive so long as the option is there, but trying to force people to Subscribe when that's not our preferred payment method is subversive and unfair, it undermines the entire notion of having different payment methods and makes those of us who have invested so much money buying DLC's outright feel like we're being shortchanged. Which payment method is more economical is entirely beside the point, it's what I chose because I felt it was best for me, and the option shouldn't have even been there if people like me are going to be treated like second-class citizens to such a profound extent as this.

I am a subber and will have the bags.How is it that my playstyle will be different? How will an inventory bag fundamentally alter the way I play?
I'm still a Stamina Nightblade,who does quests,gather's mats,and loves running PUGs. I dont PvP and the bag wont change any of the things I have mentioned.I'll just have a bit more room for other things I want to keep.Such as the items I launder for the Covetous Countess quest that is in the Thieve's Guild DLC.
As to the bags being for Plus members,well,it was created as an incentive.If you want those bags bad enough,you'll do what ZOS intends you should to get them.You'll sub.
Whether you believe that's unfair or not,incentives are made for a reason.Not to please everyone who plays,but rather to make people want what is offered in a subscription.
Why is this so hard to grasp?

Gidorick · May 2016

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

@Gidorick
Don't go implying I said things I didn't say.
I never said there wasn't room for improvement, I simply said they system, as is, isn't "broken."

I'm not sure what you are objecting to specifically @ShedsHisTail , but I didn't mean to imply you said anything more than what you have said... if you feel that anything I have written is doing so you, I apologize.

Maybe my jovial use of your words in referring to Cyrodiil working fine is what you are referring to. That was in jest and I was simply trying to make a point that what one player sees as a "game breaking issue" is different than what another player sees as a "game breaking issue."

Gidorick · May 2016

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

@Gidorick lol

Deliberately trying to not understand the argument?

If it helps think of crafting bags as a crown store rental for 3000 crowns. See, now everyone has access to it

And there @myrrrorb14_ESO , you are being deliberately obtuse. Content rental vs content ownership is the issue here, and you know it.... you should have used this emote ->

ShedsHisTail · May 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

As for the reasoning behind I'm not going to get into a discussion about the suppositions about game design with you on this thread @ShedsHisTail. If you want to do that, we can start another thread.

@Gidorick
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to start a new argument. It's just something I do when thinking through a design issue, I try to ask, "Why is this the way it is? What purpose(s) might it serve."

Folks keep saying it's a cash grab, but I try to think outside the box a little.

Gidorick · May 2016

Volkodav wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

And that's fine @ShedsHisTail ... not every perk is going to incentivize every player. The point is, ZOS could have added other options to the subscription that weren't "fixes for a broken system".... I have given some examples. Want more? I can give more.

No, @Gidorick I don't need more.
However, I think it's worth noting that just as not every option will incentivize every player, neither will every system fit every play-style. Just because the current system isn't working for you doesn't make it broken.

I don't have any issues with the system as is. Having to manage my bank/inventory space is something I'm capable of doing and it doesn't interfere with how I want to play the game. Your "broken system" works just fine for me and, I imagine, a healthy chunk of the population.

I welcome the crafting bag, it'll be handy. But it's something I, and many others, have been living without just fine for a very long time.

"Works fine" is much different than "works efficiently" @ShedsHisTail . We have dealt with and learned to accept the inventory as it is because that is what we had to do. We had no choice in the matter. Now we have a choice... subscribe and get the new-improved inventory... or don't subscribe and continue with the system that "works fine".

Thing is,many people who were irritated about the inventory problems didnt go all ballistic about it.Now they are rising up and feeling cheated,that the inventory as it is "breaks the game",and yet it never broke anything before this new option is available.

I think many of us on this forum are reasonable people @Volkodav and we didn't "go ballistic" because we thought the inventory system would be upgraded and solutions would come in due time. It's not like we didn't make threads about it, we just didn't act like fools because of it.

So now, the time has come for ZOS to offer solutions... and those solutions are behind a subscription. Good business sense that will bring in a TON of new subscribers? Yea! It sure will. Respectful to many of their customers? I can't say that it is.

But hey, no one ever said a corporation had to be respectful. Only that it has to be profitable, right?

ShedsHisTail · May 2016

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

I agree that this isn't something that should be exclusive to ESO+, these Crafting Bags will fundamentally alter the way people who use them play the game significantly for the better, and to say that all the players who pay money directly for DLC's shouldn't have the option to buy this also is a slap in the face to all of us.

I understand and agree that there isn't nearly enough of an incentive to buy ESO+ currently but that doesn't justify adding something this important and giving it only to Subscribers, two wrongs do not make a right and while it's wrong to have ESO+ not be more rewarding it's also wrong to give them something that should be available to everyone just to appease Subscribers and incentivize more people to Subscribe.

This incident really makes me question the validity and practicality of offering two different payment methods for DLC's in the first place, and if this is how hard ZOS is going to push to emphasize Subscribing as the superior option then I think it was a mistake to ever drop the Subscription model. If they are going to continue to have these two alternatives coexist, then they need to be equitably implemented, and while it was unfairly balanced before against Subscribing, now it's going to be unfairly balanced in favor of Subscribing, and while I fully understand all the Subscribers who selfishly want this to stay for them alone, that isn't remotely fair or reasonable for the rest of us.

Just because ESO+ people were getting the shaft before doesn't mean everyone else should be getting the shaft now just to compensate, and that seems to be the rationale behind a lot of people's arguments, that ESO+ is and should be the better option and anyone too cheap to use it can suck it, and that you deserve anything you can get just to make ESO+ actually be worth your money. Newsflash, you don't, we all deserve access to such fundamentally important and game-changing additions, including people who have no interest in Subscribing but who have and will continue to buy DLC content outright.

If they want ESO+ to be more worthwhile then there are lots of other ways they could improve it that won't deprive everyone else of such important content, and anyone saying that the crafting bags finally justify their Subscription and should stay exclusive should be spending their time doing something more useful and coming up with other ways they can get their money's worth that doesn't screw over the rest of us. Seriously that isn't even a valid argument in the least, that's like saying it's not fair that Women don't get equal pay and suggesting that the solution is to give them even more than Men, which is patently ridiculous. You can't fix something that's broken by going overboard in the other direction, it fixes nothing and just stirs up trouble.

You say there are better ways to make ESO+ worthwhile, can you give some? Really give some, where someone else like yourself, doesn't say's its unfair I want that too, but I don't want to support the game to get it.

This is not fundamental to the game, its convenient, everyone who's played from launch has done so without the crafting bag, so it being fundamental to the game, is fundamentally wrong based on the evidence of the last two years without this convenience.

If this convenience is wanted so badly by many players, may be they will see the benefits of subscribing, which will be a win for the game.

Its nice though that you think people who are supporting the game are screwing you over though.

I didn't say it was fundamental to the game, I said it fundamentally alters the way people who have it play the game, which is slightly but notably different.

But does it?
I mean, I'm still going to have to return to town to every time my inventory fills up with garbage, it'll just take a little longer; maybe... MAYBE it'll save me a bank trip to drop off the mats I get from deconning (which I still have to return to town to do).

For most zones, the crafting mats you find are specific to either your level or the zone level. Meaning you are probably filling 20-30 inventory slots with crafting mats at any one time before making a town run to get rid of them. That's about how much the game will change... It will save a subscriber however much time it takes to fill 20-30 inventory slots and drop them at the bank.

How long is that for you?

Aisle9 · May 2016

ShedsHisTail · May 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

@Gidorick
Don't go implying I said things I didn't say.
I never said there wasn't room for improvement, I simply said they system, as is, isn't "broken."

I'm not sure what you are objecting to specifically @ShedsHisTail , but I didn't mean to imply you said anything more than what you have said... if you feel that anything I have written is doing so you, I apologize.

Maybe my jovial use of your words in referring to Cyrodiil working fine is what you are referring to. That was in jest and I was simply trying to make a point that what one player sees as a "game breaking issue" is different than what another player sees as a "game breaking issue."

No harm, no foul.

Volkodav · May 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

And that's fine @ShedsHisTail ... not every perk is going to incentivize every player. The point is, ZOS could have added other options to the subscription that weren't "fixes for a broken system".... I have given some examples. Want more? I can give more.

No, @Gidorick I don't need more.
However, I think it's worth noting that just as not every option will incentivize every player, neither will every system fit every play-style. Just because the current system isn't working for you doesn't make it broken.

I don't have any issues with the system as is. Having to manage my bank/inventory space is something I'm capable of doing and it doesn't interfere with how I want to play the game. Your "broken system" works just fine for me and, I imagine, a healthy chunk of the population.

I welcome the crafting bag, it'll be handy. But it's something I, and many others, have been living without just fine for a very long time.

"Works fine" is much different than "works efficiently" @ShedsHisTail . We have dealt with and learned to accept the inventory as it is because that is what we had to do. We had no choice in the matter. Now we have a choice... subscribe and get the new-improved inventory... or don't subscribe and continue with the system that "works fine".

Thing is,many people who were irritated about the inventory problems didnt go all ballistic about it.Now they are rising up and feeling cheated,that the inventory as it is "breaks the game",and yet it never broke anything before this new option is available.

I think many of us on this forum are reasonable people @Volkodav and we didn't "go ballistic" because we thought the inventory system would be upgraded and solutions would come in due time. It's not like we didn't make threads about it, we just didn't act like fools because of it.

So now, the time has come for ZOS to offer solutions... and those solutions are behind a subscription. Good business sense that will bring in a TON of new subscribers? Yea! It sure will. Respectful to many of their customers? I can't say that it is.

But hey, no one ever said a corporation had to be respectful. Only that it has to be profitable, right?

Sadly,this is true.ZOS is out to be profitable to prosper.Or we wouldnt have a game to play.

Gidorick · May 2016

I'mma steal that image @Aisle9

Aisle9 · May 2016

go ahead

Volkodav · May 2016

Aisle9 wrote: »

go ahead

I like the flies!

Tevalaur · May 2016

newtinmpls wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

I really don't understand why the subscriber base are so set against zo$ even raising the bank or bag cap slightly.

Seriously, I don't see anyone saying this - specifically I've NEVER heard anyone say they were against raising any storage max.

Although since I'm not maxed out on anyone's bank or bags, I might have missed it.

Several folks have in the other threads, saying it would diminish the value they get out of their exclusive crafting bag. You can go read some of the other points brought up in those threads if you're eager to spend a few days on this topic.

Lucius_Aelius · May 2016

Volkodav wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

I agree that this isn't something that should be exclusive to ESO+, these Crafting Bags will fundamentally alter the way people who use them play the game significantly for the better, and to say that all the players who pay money directly for DLC's shouldn't have the option to buy this also is a slap in the face to all of us.

I understand and agree that there isn't nearly enough of an incentive to buy ESO+ currently but that doesn't justify adding something this important and giving it only to Subscribers, two wrongs do not make a right and while it's wrong to have ESO+ not be more rewarding it's also wrong to give them something that should be available to everyone just to appease Subscribers and incentivize more people to Subscribe.

This incident really makes me question the validity and practicality of offering two different payment methods for DLC's in the first place, and if this is how hard ZOS is going to push to emphasize Subscribing as the superior option then I think it was a mistake to ever drop the Subscription model. If they are going to continue to have these two alternatives coexist, then they need to be equitably implemented, and while it was unfairly balanced before against Subscribing, now it's going to be unfairly balanced in favor of Subscribing, and while I fully understand all the Subscribers who selfishly want this to stay for them alone, that isn't remotely fair or reasonable for the rest of us.

Just because ESO+ people were getting the shaft before doesn't mean everyone else should be getting the shaft now just to compensate, and that seems to be the rationale behind a lot of people's arguments, that ESO+ is and should be the better option and anyone too cheap to use it can suck it, and that you deserve anything you can get just to make ESO+ actually be worth your money. Newsflash, you don't, we all deserve access to such fundamentally important and game-changing additions, including people who have no interest in Subscribing but who have and will continue to buy DLC content outright.

If they want ESO+ to be more worthwhile then there are lots of other ways they could improve it that won't deprive everyone else of such important content, and anyone saying that the crafting bags finally justify their Subscription and should stay exclusive should be spending their time doing something more useful and coming up with other ways they can get their money's worth that doesn't screw over the rest of us. Seriously that isn't even a valid argument in the least, that's like saying it's not fair that Women don't get equal pay and suggesting that the solution is to give them even more than Men, which is patently ridiculous. You can't fix something that's broken by going overboard in the other direction, it fixes nothing and just stirs up trouble.

You say there are better ways to make ESO+ worthwhile, can you give some? Really give some, where someone else like yourself, doesn't say's its unfair I want that too, but I don't want to support the game to get it.

This is not fundamental to the game, its convenient, everyone who's played from launch has done so without the crafting bag, so it being fundamental to the game, is fundamentally wrong based on the evidence of the last two years without this convenience.

If this convenience is wanted so badly by many players, may be they will see the benefits of subscribing, which will be a win for the game.

Its nice though that you think people who are supporting the game are screwing you over though.

I didn't say it was fundamental to the game, I said it fundamentally alters the way people who have it play the game, which is slightly but notably different. Technically you're correct that it's a convenience item, but the degree to which it is a convenience item is significant and dramatic. It's like saying riding the bus versus walking is a convenience item, which it is to be sure, it doesn't get you anywhere you couldn't go without but it gets you there 100 times faster and as such cannot merely be dismissed as such.

It's more than just convenient, it's completely game-changing for the people who get to use it, it's disgusting how much time I have to spend managing my Inventory and I don't even keep nearly as many mats as I would like to as a budding master crafter.

As far as ideas to make ESO+ more worthwhile, there are any number of options. I'd be fine with all the current bonuses (minus crowns per month) being doubled, not my first choice but it's better than having crafting bags be exclusive, which would be in and of itself more of a bonus than every other bonus combined. Also things like the Assistants should have been free for ESO+ members, I don't know what ZOS was thinking by not doing that.

And that's just for starters, but I'm not interested in Subscribing so it's not my job to think of bonuses that should be added for it. My only concern is that ESO+ members not be given such game-changing things as exclusives, anything ESO+ members get for free with the subscription (apart from Gold and XP bonuses and reduced research times and the like, which can't effectively be sold separately) should be available for sale in the crown store as a standalone purchase.

I'd be fine with it being expensive so long as the option is there, but trying to force people to Subscribe when that's not our preferred payment method is subversive and unfair, it undermines the entire notion of having different payment methods and makes those of us who have invested so much money buying DLC's outright feel like we're being shortchanged. Which payment method is more economical is entirely beside the point, it's what I chose because I felt it was best for me, and the option shouldn't have even been there if people like me are going to be treated like second-class citizens to such a profound extent as this.

I am a subber and will have the bags.How is it that my playstyle will be different? How will an inventory bag fundamentally alter the way I play?
I'm still a Stamina Nightblade,who does quests,gather's mats,and loves running PUGs. I dont PvP and the bag wont change any of the things I have mentioned.I'll just have a bit more room for other things I want to keep.Such as the items I launder for the Covetous Countess quest that is in the Thieve's Guild DLC.
As to the bags being for Plus members,well,it was created as an incentive.If you want those bags bad enough,you'll do what ZOS intends you should to get them.You'll sub.
Whether you believe that's unfair or not,incentives are made for a reason.Not to please everyone who plays,but rather to make people want what is offered in a subscription.
Why is this so hard to grasp?

Why is it so hard for you to grasp? The amount of time saved managing inventory space is an outright game-changer, not to mention the astronomical increase in the amount of crafting materials you can store. And just because ESO+ needed more incentives doesn't mean it's fair for ZOS to give them any random perk they want and just say to hell with the rest of us, they certainly have the right to do that, it's their game, but it's not fair at all.

And those of us who buy content outright should not be relegated to being second class citizens to such an extent as this, if that's how they were going to have it then they never should have had different payment methods at all, and should have stuck with Subscriptions only. If they're going to have different payment options then there should be fairness in what is received with each, and the crafting bag is just too good of a perk for it to be fair to have it exclusive.

We who bought content directly shouldn't have to Subscribe just to get access to something that should be available to anyone in the crown store, it undermines the entire notion of having different payment methods, and after having spent so much money buying crowns it would be a waste to just subscribe now, I wouldn't have spent crowns on the same things if I were subscribed and the crowns I did spend would be invalidated by making that change, which I refuse to do.

It's not entitlement to expect to get my money's worth (which is what all Subscribers have been whining about all this time), and switching to a subscription after buying so much directly is utterly wasteful and not at all worth what I've paid for it. ZOS trying to incentivize paying customers to waste our money just to get a single game-changing perk is underhanded, and I'll quit the game sooner than subscribe if ZOS values me so little as a a customer to try and do so.

ShedsHisTail · May 2016

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

And those of us who buy content outright should not be relegated to being second class citizens to such an extent as this, if that's how they were going to have it then they never should have had different payment methods at all, and should have stuck with Subscriptions only. If they're going to have different payment options then there should be fairness in what is received with each, and the crafting bag is just too good of a perk for it to be fair to have it exclusive.

There is fairness. You have the option to pay significantly less to play the same game.
Sorry. Lower price tag, fewer features. If you pay the same amount or more, then just subscribe. It's not rocket surgery.

We who bought content directly shouldn't have to Subscribe just to get access to something that should be available to anyone in the crown store, it undermines the entire notion of having different payment methods, and after having spent so much money buying crowns it would be a waste to just subscribe now, I wouldn't have spent crowns on the same things if I were subscribed and the crowns I did spend would be invalidated by making that change, which I refuse to do.

What you did in the past doesn't matter. This isn't a reward.

It's not entitlement to expect to get my money's worth (which is what all Subscribers have been whining about all this time), and switching to a subscription after buying so much directly is utterly wasteful and not at all worth what I've paid for it. ZOS trying to incentivize paying customers to waste our money just to get a single game-changing perk is underhanded, and I'll quit the game sooner than subscribe if ZOS values me so little as a a customer to try and do so.

You got your money's worth. Nothing you bought came with a promised reward in the fine print.
Subscribing now give you access to future content and perks, they aren't asking you to pay for you DLC a second time or applying monthly payments retroactively. You haven't wasted anything.

Lucius_Aelius · May 2016

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

I agree that this isn't something that should be exclusive to ESO+, these Crafting Bags will fundamentally alter the way people who use them play the game significantly for the better, and to say that all the players who pay money directly for DLC's shouldn't have the option to buy this also is a slap in the face to all of us.

I understand and agree that there isn't nearly enough of an incentive to buy ESO+ currently but that doesn't justify adding something this important and giving it only to Subscribers, two wrongs do not make a right and while it's wrong to have ESO+ not be more rewarding it's also wrong to give them something that should be available to everyone just to appease Subscribers and incentivize more people to Subscribe.

This incident really makes me question the validity and practicality of offering two different payment methods for DLC's in the first place, and if this is how hard ZOS is going to push to emphasize Subscribing as the superior option then I think it was a mistake to ever drop the Subscription model. If they are going to continue to have these two alternatives coexist, then they need to be equitably implemented, and while it was unfairly balanced before against Subscribing, now it's going to be unfairly balanced in favor of Subscribing, and while I fully understand all the Subscribers who selfishly want this to stay for them alone, that isn't remotely fair or reasonable for the rest of us.

Just because ESO+ people were getting the shaft before doesn't mean everyone else should be getting the shaft now just to compensate, and that seems to be the rationale behind a lot of people's arguments, that ESO+ is and should be the better option and anyone too cheap to use it can suck it, and that you deserve anything you can get just to make ESO+ actually be worth your money. Newsflash, you don't, we all deserve access to such fundamentally important and game-changing additions, including people who have no interest in Subscribing but who have and will continue to buy DLC content outright.

If they want ESO+ to be more worthwhile then there are lots of other ways they could improve it that won't deprive everyone else of such important content, and anyone saying that the crafting bags finally justify their Subscription and should stay exclusive should be spending their time doing something more useful and coming up with other ways they can get their money's worth that doesn't screw over the rest of us. Seriously that isn't even a valid argument in the least, that's like saying it's not fair that Women don't get equal pay and suggesting that the solution is to give them even more than Men, which is patently ridiculous. You can't fix something that's broken by going overboard in the other direction, it fixes nothing and just stirs up trouble.

You say there are better ways to make ESO+ worthwhile, can you give some? Really give some, where someone else like yourself, doesn't say's its unfair I want that too, but I don't want to support the game to get it.

This is not fundamental to the game, its convenient, everyone who's played from launch has done so without the crafting bag, so it being fundamental to the game, is fundamentally wrong based on the evidence of the last two years without this convenience.

If this convenience is wanted so badly by many players, may be they will see the benefits of subscribing, which will be a win for the game.

Its nice though that you think people who are supporting the game are screwing you over though.

I didn't say it was fundamental to the game, I said it fundamentally alters the way people who have it play the game, which is slightly but notably different.

But does it?
I mean, I'm still going to have to return to town to every time my inventory fills up with garbage, it'll just take a little longer; maybe... MAYBE it'll save me a bank trip to drop off the mats I get from deconning (which I still have to return to town to do).

For most zones, the crafting mats you find are specific to either your level or the zone level. Meaning you are probably filling 20-30 inventory slots with crafting mats at any one time before making a town run to get rid of them. That's about how much the game will change... It will save a subscriber however much time it takes to fill 20-30 inventory slots and drop them at the bank.

How long is that for you?

Except it's more than that, because I'm a budding master crafter and I pick up any and all crafting mats I can, which fills up my Inventory in no time at all. Provisioning alone has more than 30 mats, and I often have all kind of mats that I pick up, requiring me to go to the bank constantly.

Also I can't store nearly as much as I'd like, not by a long shot. I want to be a master crafter who can craft anything for anyone of any level, and I don't have anywhere close to the bank space for that as it is. Even just the stuff I keep for myself I can't keep more than one stack of, and being able to store as many as I want would in and of itself be game-changing for me personally given how much I farm and how little I can actually keep currently.

Blackbird71 · May 2016

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

pod88kk wrote: »

Why not make crafting bags purchaseable, that'd surely solve all the problems. For instance I'm not a subscriber but I have paid a substantial amount of money for the things I have in game, mounts, dlcs, costumes etc I feel that I need to be rewarded for my income too otherwise it feels that the devs just don't appreciate the people who don't have a steady income to pay a subscription but will happily pay for a new Dlc or something they really like as soon as they can afford it.

Why do you people think you deserve a reward for buying things? You wouldn't walk into Best Buy and say, "Hey, I bought a lot of things last year, give me free stuff as a reward." That's madness.!

You don't get rewards for getting what you paid for. Second, the crafting bag is NOT A LOYALTY REWARD. It's not ar eward for what you did in the past.

It's an incentive to subscribe, not a reward to past subscribers.

A new player could buy the game tomorrow, subscribe and get the bag. They aren't loyal, they're brand new. Just like you could subscribe tomorrow and get the bag even though you've never subscribed before.

Since when is asking for something to be available for purchase the same as claiming to deserve a reward? Do you even read your own words before you post?

Oh, and as for your example, Best Buy does exactly that - if you purchase enough within one year (I believe it is currently $2000 worth of merchandise), you qualify for a year of their Platinum RewardZone membership, which gets you extra perks and points which can be used to buy more merchandise, so yes, "free stuff". What you call "madness," they call a working business model of loyalty rewards.

lookstwice · May 2016

If the craft bags are wrong, I don't want to be right.

ShedsHisTail · May 2016

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

I agree that this isn't something that should be exclusive to ESO+, these Crafting Bags will fundamentally alter the way people who use them play the game significantly for the better, and to say that all the players who pay money directly for DLC's shouldn't have the option to buy this also is a slap in the face to all of us.

I understand and agree that there isn't nearly enough of an incentive to buy ESO+ currently but that doesn't justify adding something this important and giving it only to Subscribers, two wrongs do not make a right and while it's wrong to have ESO+ not be more rewarding it's also wrong to give them something that should be available to everyone just to appease Subscribers and incentivize more people to Subscribe.

This incident really makes me question the validity and practicality of offering two different payment methods for DLC's in the first place, and if this is how hard ZOS is going to push to emphasize Subscribing as the superior option then I think it was a mistake to ever drop the Subscription model. If they are going to continue to have these two alternatives coexist, then they need to be equitably implemented, and while it was unfairly balanced before against Subscribing, now it's going to be unfairly balanced in favor of Subscribing, and while I fully understand all the Subscribers who selfishly want this to stay for them alone, that isn't remotely fair or reasonable for the rest of us.

Just because ESO+ people were getting the shaft before doesn't mean everyone else should be getting the shaft now just to compensate, and that seems to be the rationale behind a lot of people's arguments, that ESO+ is and should be the better option and anyone too cheap to use it can suck it, and that you deserve anything you can get just to make ESO+ actually be worth your money. Newsflash, you don't, we all deserve access to such fundamentally important and game-changing additions, including people who have no interest in Subscribing but who have and will continue to buy DLC content outright.

If they want ESO+ to be more worthwhile then there are lots of other ways they could improve it that won't deprive everyone else of such important content, and anyone saying that the crafting bags finally justify their Subscription and should stay exclusive should be spending their time doing something more useful and coming up with other ways they can get their money's worth that doesn't screw over the rest of us. Seriously that isn't even a valid argument in the least, that's like saying it's not fair that Women don't get equal pay and suggesting that the solution is to give them even more than Men, which is patently ridiculous. You can't fix something that's broken by going overboard in the other direction, it fixes nothing and just stirs up trouble.

You say there are better ways to make ESO+ worthwhile, can you give some? Really give some, where someone else like yourself, doesn't say's its unfair I want that too, but I don't want to support the game to get it.

This is not fundamental to the game, its convenient, everyone who's played from launch has done so without the crafting bag, so it being fundamental to the game, is fundamentally wrong based on the evidence of the last two years without this convenience.

If this convenience is wanted so badly by many players, may be they will see the benefits of subscribing, which will be a win for the game.

Its nice though that you think people who are supporting the game are screwing you over though.

I didn't say it was fundamental to the game, I said it fundamentally alters the way people who have it play the game, which is slightly but notably different.

But does it?
I mean, I'm still going to have to return to town to every time my inventory fills up with garbage, it'll just take a little longer; maybe... MAYBE it'll save me a bank trip to drop off the mats I get from deconning (which I still have to return to town to do).

For most zones, the crafting mats you find are specific to either your level or the zone level. Meaning you are probably filling 20-30 inventory slots with crafting mats at any one time before making a town run to get rid of them. That's about how much the game will change... It will save a subscriber however much time it takes to fill 20-30 inventory slots and drop them at the bank.

How long is that for you?

Except it's more than that, because I'm a budding master crafter and I pick up any and all crafting mats I can, which fills up my Inventory in no time at all. Provisioning alone has more than 30 mats, and I often have all kind of mats that I pick up, requiring me to go to the bank constantly.

Also I can't store nearly as much as I'd like, not by a long shot. I want to be a master crafter who can craft anything for anyone of any level, and I don't have anywhere close to the bank space for that as it is. Even just the stuff I keep for myself I can't keep more than one stack of, and being able to store as many as I want would in and of itself be game-changing for me personally given how much I farm and how little I can actually keep currently.

There's the key words, in bold.
Just because it's a game-changer -for you- doesn't mean that you and everyone else need it or even have a use for it. Some people don't craft at all. It's true, I got a buddy who has zero interest in crafting; it's just not his thing.

It's not a fundamental feature, and your crafting addiction doesn't make you a second class citizen any more than my brothers addiction to car parts makes him one. Look at your bag space as a form of currency. You've chosen to spend that currency on crafting rather than save it. Now you're asking for additional currency simply because you've spent yours.

You've made a choice to pick up every little bauble you see which makes your game time inconvenient. Now you have another choice to make, one which could potentially make things easier. But you'd rather not pay the asking price.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

A Couple of things @ShedsHisTail @Oreyn_Bearclaw @Talyena @newtinmpls @dimensional @IrishGirlGamer and @otherswhoIdidnttag

Lets go back too the OP "First of all this post is not intended for ESO+ customers, you have no worries"

This topic is specifically focused on "But for those of us who have spent a serious ammount of real $$$ on buying the game, all add-on world expansions, mounts, costumes, personal banker, etc. etc.. This needs to be an option available to us also."

To be clear, regardless of how anyone feels about anything that's previously been written, the focus is on the customer who don't want to subscribe in relation to some sort of crafting bag feature. Because its a feature and NOT an item.

1. This is the first time a feature was locked behind a subscription exclusively. We are told "ESO Plus membership is not required to receive gameplay patches, bug fixes, and other updates to The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited" but yet this feature update is somehow different. Which was my original point here - https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3005009/#Comment_3005009

The first and most obvious is what I mention as respects to Xbox One...this has been the case since day 1 and it still occurs as recent as April 28th 2016

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/03/17/crown-store-showcase
" Don't forget that members of ESO Plus receive a monthly allotment of crowns in addition to other in-game bonuses! "

The other concern is items that are locked behind a sub or crowns
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/02/12/the-road-ahead---february
"he most important thing to remember about Tamriel Unlimited's virtual currency system is that we're not adjusting the base game—it will be exactly the same game, with the same leveling pace, experience point gain, user interface, etc.
We're adding customization and convenience items in the Crown Store, but those will be added to the game as it is now; we're not going to make it harder for you to enjoy the game you already play to encourage you to use the Crown Store."

"Game Director Matt Firor explained that the base game will maintain "the same levelling pace, experience point gain, [and] user interface" it always has, and promised that it won't be made more difficult to play for those who don't spring for real-money items."

"An item in the Crown Store serves one of two purposes: It either provides a visual upgrade or distinction for your character, or it provides a way to save time at the expense of spending Crowns," he wrote. "When it comes to this second category of items, we will generally make in-game variants of similar items available either as drops or as player-craftable items as well."

2. The introduction of the "optional" subscription model literally states "get ready to experience everything Tamriel has to offer with no restrictions!"

3. On consoles the ESO Plus program doesn't even do what its marketed to do - "²Total Crown allotment will be delivered at the time of purchase." link - http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/esoplus

4. On consoles we don't have any option other than one month - https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/26432/kw/eso plus

5. For many, the ESO Plus just doesn't work on Xbox One - https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/32103/kw/eso plus

inn the OP and specific to my comments as I can't speak for others, Its nothing that will take away any perceived benefits from a subscriber of ESO Plus. The point of the thread is that there are those who purchased the game with an understanding that ESO Plus would always be optional ESO Plus was suppose to ONLY offer "As a member, you're going to get some great in-game bonuses (like additional experience gain) and a monthly allotment of crowns—virtual currency you can spend in the new Crown Store on great cosmetic and convenience items. " but now Zenimax has decided to add in a new feature and make it exclusive.

Thats the problem and from a ethical perspective, its wrong.
This has nothing to do with ZOS making money off of subscribers, as again the OP is not discussing nor do they have any intentions to negate anything from ESO Plus. This discussion seeks to discuss options for non-subscribers.

Those of us who don't subscriber anymore or even who have never subscribed, would like some option for a crafting bag, in some capacity via crowns or in-game. Because its a new feature and not an item and its not a convenience item, its a quality of life feature which per the web pages is suppose to fall under base game updates.

So directed at @ZOS_JessicaFolsom or even someone above, that is what we hope to address and have a comment on because this is outside of the original communication.

Lucius_Aelius · May 2016

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

And those of us who buy content outright should not be relegated to being second class citizens to such an extent as this, if that's how they were going to have it then they never should have had different payment methods at all, and should have stuck with Subscriptions only. If they're going to have different payment options then there should be fairness in what is received with each, and the crafting bag is just too good of a perk for it to be fair to have it exclusive.

There is fairness. You have the option to pay significantly less to play the same game.
Sorry. Lower price tag, fewer features. If you pay the same amount or more, then just subscribe. It's not rocket surgery.

We who bought content directly shouldn't have to Subscribe just to get access to something that should be available to anyone in the crown store, it undermines the entire notion of having different payment methods, and after having spent so much money buying crowns it would be a waste to just subscribe now, I wouldn't have spent crowns on the same things if I were subscribed and the crowns I did spend would be invalidated by making that change, which I refuse to do.

What you did in the past doesn't matter. This isn't a reward.

It's not entitlement to expect to get my money's worth (which is what all Subscribers have been whining about all this time), and switching to a subscription after buying so much directly is utterly wasteful and not at all worth what I've paid for it. ZOS trying to incentivize paying customers to waste our money just to get a single game-changing perk is underhanded, and I'll quit the game sooner than subscribe if ZOS values me so little as a a customer to try and do so.

You got your money's worth. Nothing you bought came with a promised reward in the fine print.
Subscribing now give you access to future content and perks, they aren't asking you to pay for you DLC a second time or applying monthly payments retroactively. You haven't wasted anything.

You're completely missing the point of course, but that's not surprising since so many people are. ZOS offering new content for Subscribers only after so many people already bought so much undermines the entire idea of different payment methods, now just to get this one perk I'd have to Subscribe and keep subscribing, which invalidates all the money I've already spent. And no that's absolutely not irrelevant, it couldn't be more relevant, and ZOS trying to incentivize people to waste their hard-earned money because they decided to change the dynamic this late in the game is entirely underhanded and shows a complete lack of respect to us as customers.

If you still can't understand that then I'm done trying to explain it to you, but you and many others are oversimplifying this issue by saying such things, there's a bigger picture you just refuse to see, and I have better things to do than trying to give sight to the blind.

myrrrorb14_ESO · May 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

@Gidorick lol

Deliberately trying to not understand the argument?

If it helps think of crafting bags as a crown store rental for 3000 crowns. See, now everyone has access to it

And there @myrrrorb14_ESO , you are being deliberately obtuse. Content rental vs content ownership is the issue here, and you know it.... you should have used this emote ->

Yeah, couldn't decide between

and

But you are exactly right. This is about renting vs owning and it will not and should not be owned. Materials and inventory space should be analyzed in an ongoing basis to determine if there is an overwhelming need to increase space or condense materials. Imo they should increase spaces by 5 again, but my opinion isn't worth much lol. They should probably overhaul crafting in general with DB.

Since this will be rentable it should be attached to ESO+ or have a high monthly cost in Crowns. Again, my opinion means very little.