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Does nobody else see how wrong this is? (craft bags)
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Tholian1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »This does sound like the case of buyers remorse. If you bought all the DLC's which are expensive. Why did you not just get ESO+. I can understand how you see this as unfair but to expect the devs to accommodate for your regret of spending all that money doesn't seem fair either.
Adding this as a ESO+ only perk is a great incentive to keep steady revenue flow into the game. Which benefits everyone as a whole. And quite frankly if you have the money to blow on all the DLC's and then some more store content. You have the money to buy a sub plan.
I think it's more of a feeling of being scammed by Ubizo$, they sold the B2P model under the advertisement of "no subscription required", naturally one would assume that any perks or extras given for subscribing would also be offered for sale under the B2P model too.
"No subscription required" does not mean that benefits would not be made available to subscribers. You can play the game without a subscription can you not? No scam is in operation here.
Other perks for subscribing or at least an alternative are offered for sale in the crown store are they not?
Yes you have alternatives in game for craft bags. Its called crown bank/bag store upgrade. Ive got like 160 bag on each of my 8 toons and around 170-ish bank slots I think off the top of my head. I just need more space because im a hoarder and still have some v1-v15 gear pieces in game lol. If you are not a hoarder like me, you can easily make do with the allowable bank slots. If anything, you should be arguing for REMOVAL of bank cap. That way you can upgrade to your hearts content. You might get more traction and support even from ESO+ members this way. Begging for the bag is not gona make it happen.. At least in the near future. Devs have been very vocal and clear on that. Their answer to the question about whether craft bag was for ESO+ only was like literally just one word: YES.
I've stated before in earlier threads and polls that I'd be happy with the removal of bank caps.
I don't care either way about the craft bags I was simply putting forth an opinion of how people who were sold the B2P model maybe feeling scammed, if B2P customers are no longer needed then that's fine by me as Ubizo$ obviously no longer need my cash for further development of the game.
I dont get it... When I go to a club to drink and don't get to sit at the VIP table or get free special VIP drinks I don't whine about it... Im happy with just being able to have a good time and buy what my money can get me... That dosent mean the club dosent want my money... It just means they are "encouraging" me to get a VIP membership since I spend a lot of time there anway...
from what I can see you guys are the only ones whining, I've bought all the dlcs and supported the game so why would I subscribe now to rent what I already own?... it would be like the club in your ridiculous analogy selling you a drink then charging you again for the privilige of drinking it.
You're not paying rent on what you already own. You will still own that. You will be paying rent on future content which hasn't been released yet.
Why is this so hard to grasp? It's not a loyalty reward for past behavior, it's an incentive for future behavior.
Why is it hard for you to grasp that if a person already owns those dlc zones there's no need to pay for access to them through subscribing, I just don't see the crafting bags as worth $15 alone and the rest of the subscription perks suck according to all of you so why would I subscribe?
Thanks I guess
@Tommy1979AtWar
Sorry, I missed this, was on my mobile, doesn't seem to load all responses for some reason.
If you already own DLC content, adding a subscription does not mean you're paying again for content you already have. You will still own that DLC, and you aren't being charged retroactively for it. If you were to decide the bag wasn't worth it an cancel your subscription, you would still own those DLC which you purchased prior to activating your subscription.
A new subscription would get you the various perks of subscribing, and any new DLC releases at no additional cost. If you choose to unsubscribe, you would lose those.
I'm not going to address the rest of your post because that's simply a matter of your opinion versus mine.
I understand perfectly how the subscription model works but seeing as I don't think any of the perks including the crafting bag are worth $120 per year I have no need to subscribe.
And no one is making you.
I haven't said anywhere that they were trying to, all I did was put forward my own opinion on why people who were sold the B2P model may feel zos scammed them, I really don't understand why the subscriber base are so set against zo$ even raising the bank or bag cap slightly.
B2P = Buying the base game and playing. Subscriptions are usually still a common option if you want more than what the base game can provide. How can anyone feel scammed? I bought the same game and don't feel scammed at all.PS4 Pro NA2 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »This does sound like the case of buyers remorse. If you bought all the DLC's which are expensive. Why did you not just get ESO+. I can understand how you see this as unfair but to expect the devs to accommodate for your regret of spending all that money doesn't seem fair either.
Adding this as a ESO+ only perk is a great incentive to keep steady revenue flow into the game. Which benefits everyone as a whole. And quite frankly if you have the money to blow on all the DLC's and then some more store content. You have the money to buy a sub plan.
I think it's more of a feeling of being scammed by Ubizo$, they sold the B2P model under the advertisement of "no subscription required", naturally one would assume that any perks or extras given for subscribing would also be offered for sale under the B2P model too.
"No subscription required" does not mean that benefits would not be made available to subscribers. You can play the game without a subscription can you not? No scam is in operation here.
Other perks for subscribing or at least an alternative are offered for sale in the crown store are they not?
Yes you have alternatives in game for craft bags. Its called crown bank/bag store upgrade. Ive got like 160 bag on each of my 8 toons and around 170-ish bank slots I think off the top of my head. I just need more space because im a hoarder and still have some v1-v15 gear pieces in game lol. If you are not a hoarder like me, you can easily make do with the allowable bank slots. If anything, you should be arguing for REMOVAL of bank cap. That way you can upgrade to your hearts content. You might get more traction and support even from ESO+ members this way. Begging for the bag is not gona make it happen.. At least in the near future. Devs have been very vocal and clear on that. Their answer to the question about whether craft bag was for ESO+ only was like literally just one word: YES.
I've stated before in earlier threads and polls that I'd be happy with the removal of bank caps.
I don't care either way about the craft bags I was simply putting forth an opinion of how people who were sold the B2P model maybe feeling scammed, if B2P customers are no longer needed then that's fine by me as Ubizo$ obviously no longer need my cash for further development of the game.
I dont get it... When I go to a club to drink and don't get to sit at the VIP table or get free special VIP drinks I don't whine about it... Im happy with just being able to have a good time and buy what my money can get me... That dosent mean the club dosent want my money... It just means they are "encouraging" me to get a VIP membership since I spend a lot of time there anway...
from what I can see you guys are the only ones whining, I've bought all the dlcs and supported the game so why would I subscribe now to rent what I already own?... it would be like the club in your ridiculous analogy selling you a drink then charging you again for the privilige of drinking it.
You're not paying rent on what you already own. You will still own that. You will be paying rent on future content which hasn't been released yet.
Why is this so hard to grasp? It's not a loyalty reward for past behavior, it's an incentive for future behavior.
Why is it hard for you to grasp that if a person already owns those dlc zones there's no need to pay for access to them through subscribing, I just don't see the crafting bags as worth $15 alone and the rest of the subscription perks suck according to all of you so why would I subscribe?
Thanks I guess
@Tommy1979AtWar
Sorry, I missed this, was on my mobile, doesn't seem to load all responses for some reason.
If you already own DLC content, adding a subscription does not mean you're paying again for content you already have. You will still own that DLC, and you aren't being charged retroactively for it. If you were to decide the bag wasn't worth it an cancel your subscription, you would still own those DLC which you purchased prior to activating your subscription.
A new subscription would get you the various perks of subscribing, and any new DLC releases at no additional cost. If you choose to unsubscribe, you would lose those.
I'm not going to address the rest of your post because that's simply a matter of your opinion versus mine.
I understand perfectly how the subscription model works but seeing as I don't think any of the perks including the crafting bag are worth $120 per year I have no need to subscribe.
And no one is making you.
I haven't said anywhere that they were trying to, all I did was put forward my own opinion on why people who were sold the B2P model may feel zos scammed them, I really don't understand why the subscriber base are so set against zo$ even raising the bank or bag cap slightly.
I don't think they are, in general.
I mean, I'm sure there might be some out there who think everyone else can go suck eggs and deal with the bank/bag space currently available, but I think in general most folks wouldn't object to non-subs getting the option to further increase bank/inventory size.
I certainly don't care. If ZOS wanted to ad the option to buy more bank slots, wouldn't bother me in the least.
They aren't going to though. At least not right now. Here's why;
Increasing bag/bank size right now would be contrary to their incentive efforts with the Craft Bag.
If ZOS said, "Subscribers will now get a crafting bag that can hold billions of crafting items, also, everyone else will get the option to increase their bank size but up to 100 slots."
Then no new subscribers would sign up. Why? Because no one (very few people) have enough junk lying around to immediately fill those 100 new slots. And I've seen people asking for 200 or 500 additional inventory slots. Folks will forgo the subscription until they fill their banks up again.
That's not what ZOS wants. They want to reinforce their monthly subscription pile, not have some percentage of the player-base drop a hefty one-time purchase and then not buy anything for the next six months.
"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »This does sound like the case of buyers remorse. If you bought all the DLC's which are expensive. Why did you not just get ESO+. I can understand how you see this as unfair but to expect the devs to accommodate for your regret of spending all that money doesn't seem fair either.
Adding this as a ESO+ only perk is a great incentive to keep steady revenue flow into the game. Which benefits everyone as a whole. And quite frankly if you have the money to blow on all the DLC's and then some more store content. You have the money to buy a sub plan.
I think it's more of a feeling of being scammed by Ubizo$, they sold the B2P model under the advertisement of "no subscription required", naturally one would assume that any perks or extras given for subscribing would also be offered for sale under the B2P model too.
"No subscription required" does not mean that benefits would not be made available to subscribers. You can play the game without a subscription can you not? No scam is in operation here.
Other perks for subscribing or at least an alternative are offered for sale in the crown store are they not?
Yes you have alternatives in game for craft bags. Its called crown bank/bag store upgrade. Ive got like 160 bag on each of my 8 toons and around 170-ish bank slots I think off the top of my head. I just need more space because im a hoarder and still have some v1-v15 gear pieces in game lol. If you are not a hoarder like me, you can easily make do with the allowable bank slots. If anything, you should be arguing for REMOVAL of bank cap. That way you can upgrade to your hearts content. You might get more traction and support even from ESO+ members this way. Begging for the bag is not gona make it happen.. At least in the near future. Devs have been very vocal and clear on that. Their answer to the question about whether craft bag was for ESO+ only was like literally just one word: YES.
I've stated before in earlier threads and polls that I'd be happy with the removal of bank caps.
I don't care either way about the craft bags I was simply putting forth an opinion of how people who were sold the B2P model maybe feeling scammed, if B2P customers are no longer needed then that's fine by me as Ubizo$ obviously no longer need my cash for further development of the game.
I dont get it... When I go to a club to drink and don't get to sit at the VIP table or get free special VIP drinks I don't whine about it... Im happy with just being able to have a good time and buy what my money can get me... That dosent mean the club dosent want my money... It just means they are "encouraging" me to get a VIP membership since I spend a lot of time there anway...
from what I can see you guys are the only ones whining, I've bought all the dlcs and supported the game so why would I subscribe now to rent what I already own?... it would be like the club in your ridiculous analogy selling you a drink then charging you again for the privilige of drinking it.
You're not paying rent on what you already own. You will still own that. You will be paying rent on future content which hasn't been released yet.
Why is this so hard to grasp? It's not a loyalty reward for past behavior, it's an incentive for future behavior.
Why is it hard for you to grasp that if a person already owns those dlc zones there's no need to pay for access to them through subscribing, I just don't see the crafting bags as worth $15 alone and the rest of the subscription perks suck according to all of you so why would I subscribe?
Thanks I guess
@Tommy1979AtWar
Sorry, I missed this, was on my mobile, doesn't seem to load all responses for some reason.
If you already own DLC content, adding a subscription does not mean you're paying again for content you already have. You will still own that DLC, and you aren't being charged retroactively for it. If you were to decide the bag wasn't worth it an cancel your subscription, you would still own those DLC which you purchased prior to activating your subscription.
A new subscription would get you the various perks of subscribing, and any new DLC releases at no additional cost. If you choose to unsubscribe, you would lose those.
I'm not going to address the rest of your post because that's simply a matter of your opinion versus mine.
I understand perfectly how the subscription model works but seeing as I don't think any of the perks including the crafting bag are worth $120 per year I have no need to subscribe.
And no one is making you.
I haven't said anywhere that they were trying to, all I did was put forward my own opinion on why people who were sold the B2P model may feel zos scammed them, I really don't understand why the subscriber base are so set against zo$ even raising the bank or bag cap slightly.
If have no issue with bank size being increased. That benefits anyone. They would have to pay for it with in game gold (expensive since each 10 slots cost more than he previous) or via crown store.
But the crafting bag will remain a sub perk only.1 -
Tommy1979AtWar✭✭✭✭Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »This does sound like the case of buyers remorse. If you bought all the DLC's which are expensive. Why did you not just get ESO+. I can understand how you see this as unfair but to expect the devs to accommodate for your regret of spending all that money doesn't seem fair either.
Adding this as a ESO+ only perk is a great incentive to keep steady revenue flow into the game. Which benefits everyone as a whole. And quite frankly if you have the money to blow on all the DLC's and then some more store content. You have the money to buy a sub plan.
I think it's more of a feeling of being scammed by Ubizo$, they sold the B2P model under the advertisement of "no subscription required", naturally one would assume that any perks or extras given for subscribing would also be offered for sale under the B2P model too.
"No subscription required" does not mean that benefits would not be made available to subscribers. You can play the game without a subscription can you not? No scam is in operation here.
Other perks for subscribing or at least an alternative are offered for sale in the crown store are they not?
Yes you have alternatives in game for craft bags. Its called crown bank/bag store upgrade. Ive got like 160 bag on each of my 8 toons and around 170-ish bank slots I think off the top of my head. I just need more space because im a hoarder and still have some v1-v15 gear pieces in game lol. If you are not a hoarder like me, you can easily make do with the allowable bank slots. If anything, you should be arguing for REMOVAL of bank cap. That way you can upgrade to your hearts content. You might get more traction and support even from ESO+ members this way. Begging for the bag is not gona make it happen.. At least in the near future. Devs have been very vocal and clear on that. Their answer to the question about whether craft bag was for ESO+ only was like literally just one word: YES.
I've stated before in earlier threads and polls that I'd be happy with the removal of bank caps.
I don't care either way about the craft bags I was simply putting forth an opinion of how people who were sold the B2P model maybe feeling scammed, if B2P customers are no longer needed then that's fine by me as Ubizo$ obviously no longer need my cash for further development of the game.
I dont get it... When I go to a club to drink and don't get to sit at the VIP table or get free special VIP drinks I don't whine about it... Im happy with just being able to have a good time and buy what my money can get me... That dosent mean the club dosent want my money... It just means they are "encouraging" me to get a VIP membership since I spend a lot of time there anway...
from what I can see you guys are the only ones whining, I've bought all the dlcs and supported the game so why would I subscribe now to rent what I already own?... it would be like the club in your ridiculous analogy selling you a drink then charging you again for the privilige of drinking it.
You're not paying rent on what you already own. You will still own that. You will be paying rent on future content which hasn't been released yet.
Why is this so hard to grasp? It's not a loyalty reward for past behavior, it's an incentive for future behavior.
Why is it hard for you to grasp that if a person already owns those dlc zones there's no need to pay for access to them through subscribing, I just don't see the crafting bags as worth $15 alone and the rest of the subscription perks suck according to all of you so why would I subscribe?
Thanks I guess
@Tommy1979AtWar
Sorry, I missed this, was on my mobile, doesn't seem to load all responses for some reason.
If you already own DLC content, adding a subscription does not mean you're paying again for content you already have. You will still own that DLC, and you aren't being charged retroactively for it. If you were to decide the bag wasn't worth it an cancel your subscription, you would still own those DLC which you purchased prior to activating your subscription.
A new subscription would get you the various perks of subscribing, and any new DLC releases at no additional cost. If you choose to unsubscribe, you would lose those.
I'm not going to address the rest of your post because that's simply a matter of your opinion versus mine.
I understand perfectly how the subscription model works but seeing as I don't think any of the perks including the crafting bag are worth $120 per year I have no need to subscribe.
And no one is making you.
I haven't said anywhere that they were trying to, all I did was put forward my own opinion on why people who were sold the B2P model may feel zos scammed them, I really don't understand why the subscriber base are so set against zo$ even raising the bank or bag cap slightly.
B2P = Buying the base game and playing. Subscriptions are usually still a common option if you want more than what the base game can provide. How can anyone feel scammed? I bought the same game and don't feel scammed at all.
I don't see the need to repeat myself, go and read it if you're interested enough.0 -
nimander99✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm actually super impressed with all the arguments I've read these last few days in this thread. This is a topic that could have been an all out flame war, instead I've read well reasoned arguments from both sides of the spectrum.
I read through other MMO forums I play and never see this level of maturity (not trying to sound condescending).
We have have a good community in this game and in these forums. We are the Super Fans!I AM UPDATING MY PRIVACY POLICY
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
∽∽∽ 2 years of Elder Scrolls Online ∼∼∼
"Give us money" = Box sales & monthly sub fees,
"moar!" = £10 palomino horse,
"MOAR!" = Switch to B2P, launch cash shop,
"MOAR!!" = Charge for DLC that subs had already paid for,
"MOAR!!!" = Experience scrolls and riding lessons,
"MOARR!!!" = Vampire/werewolf bites,
"MOAARRR!!!" = CS exclusive motifs,
"MOOAARRR!!!" = Crown crates,
"MOOOAAARRR!!!" = 'Chapter's' bought separately from ESO+,
"MOOOOAAAARRRR!!!!" = ???
Male, Dunmer, VR16, Templar, Aldmeri Dominion, Master Crafter & all Traits, CP4502 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭newtinmpls wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »
I haven't said anywhere that they were trying to, all I did was put forward my own opinion on why people who were sold the B2P model may feel zos scammed them, I really don't understand why the subscriber base are so set against zo$ even raising the bank or bag cap slightly.
Hmmmm
I've never seen those sentiments expressed.
I guess we have differing interpretations.
@newtinmpls https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/266749/final-craft-bags-for-eso-plus-members-only-please-share-your-opinion-about-the-rest-of-us
@Taisynn
That poll is flawed, I thought about it when I was voting.
You'll note that poll doesn't have a "Make Craft bag ESO+ Exclusive and add Crown store purchase to increase bank/inventory size." Option.
Option 2: "Make Craft Bags ESO plus exclusive, but I'm alright with increasing inventory for everyone."
Implies that everyone gets extra inventory at no cost and ESO+ get bags.
Options 3 and 4 removed the Craft Bag Exclusive from the equation entirely. That's why they got no votes.Edited by ShedsHisTail on May 25, 2016 5:59PM"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?1 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lets be honest here. This isnt about crafting bags. Well, it is, but theres a larger issue here. Some people feel that subscribers should not get any meaningful perks. I have a feeling the discussion would be exactly the same with any other good reward. Its all fine as long as subscribers only get insignificant things noone really cares about. When its something that actually has a chance to encourage players to sub, we get threads like this one.
What if we got an eso+ exclusive costume with each DLC? My guess - a forum sh*tstorm. Eso+ exclusive mounts and/or personalities? Outrage! Eso+ exclusive barber shop options? Hell no! Weapon dyes for subscribers. Oh My God! The forum servers would crash and burn. And thats just cosmetic items not affecting gameplay. What if it was functionality? A summonable repair-bot for example. Can you imagine the tears?
So the question isnt whether ZOS should give crafting bags as a sub perk. The question is should ZOS give anything actually desirable as a sub perk.
Edited by khele23eb17_ESO on May 26, 2016 7:31AMP2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.7 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »So genuine question for you all, seeing how you all seem to be of the opinion that the sub perks weren't worth it in the past do you all feel $120 a year is a fair price for a crafting bag alone?
@Tommy1979AtWar
No. If I was paying $120 a year just for the bag I wouldn't buy it. But I'm not.
I'm paying for the bag, and access to all the DLC released in that year, and all the other perks which come with it.
I don't get where you're getting this idea that the rest of the perks aren't part of the equation. I haven't seen anyone who said they're worthless. They simply aren't being discussed because no one has complained about them in the past. In fact, if anyone thinks they're worthless, I'd say it's the people who've opted -not- to pay for them via subscription rather than subscribers.
You should be directing your question toward them.
I've seen it said lots of times that the subscribed customers haven't had a reason to until now, that the perks were minor and inconsequencial, not worth it and they only subbed to support the games development etc, pretty much the same reasons I chose the B2P model, my question was in fact directed at everyone as I'm interested to hear both sides really.
Then I would suspect they were being insincere.
I don't think anyone would subscribe if they didn't have a reason people make choices for reasons. Sometimes those reasons are flawed, but they are there. Anyone saying they chose to subscribe for no reason needs to re-examine their thought process.
I don't think that many people were or are being that insincere tbh, some people genuinely want to support the game, sometimes the subscription model suits one person and the buy to play model suits another.
That's a reason."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »I really don't understand why the subscriber base are so set against zo$ even raising the bank or bag cap slightly.
Seriously, I don't see anyone saying this - specifically I've NEVER heard anyone say they were against raising any storage max.
Although since I'm not maxed out on anyone's bank or bags, I might have missed it.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis1 -
Tommy1979AtWar✭✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »This does sound like the case of buyers remorse. If you bought all the DLC's which are expensive. Why did you not just get ESO+. I can understand how you see this as unfair but to expect the devs to accommodate for your regret of spending all that money doesn't seem fair either.
Adding this as a ESO+ only perk is a great incentive to keep steady revenue flow into the game. Which benefits everyone as a whole. And quite frankly if you have the money to blow on all the DLC's and then some more store content. You have the money to buy a sub plan.
I think it's more of a feeling of being scammed by Ubizo$, they sold the B2P model under the advertisement of "no subscription required", naturally one would assume that any perks or extras given for subscribing would also be offered for sale under the B2P model too.
"No subscription required" does not mean that benefits would not be made available to subscribers. You can play the game without a subscription can you not? No scam is in operation here.
Other perks for subscribing or at least an alternative are offered for sale in the crown store are they not?
Yes you have alternatives in game for craft bags. Its called crown bank/bag store upgrade. Ive got like 160 bag on each of my 8 toons and around 170-ish bank slots I think off the top of my head. I just need more space because im a hoarder and still have some v1-v15 gear pieces in game lol. If you are not a hoarder like me, you can easily make do with the allowable bank slots. If anything, you should be arguing for REMOVAL of bank cap. That way you can upgrade to your hearts content. You might get more traction and support even from ESO+ members this way. Begging for the bag is not gona make it happen.. At least in the near future. Devs have been very vocal and clear on that. Their answer to the question about whether craft bag was for ESO+ only was like literally just one word: YES.
I've stated before in earlier threads and polls that I'd be happy with the removal of bank caps.
I don't care either way about the craft bags I was simply putting forth an opinion of how people who were sold the B2P model maybe feeling scammed, if B2P customers are no longer needed then that's fine by me as Ubizo$ obviously no longer need my cash for further development of the game.
I dont get it... When I go to a club to drink and don't get to sit at the VIP table or get free special VIP drinks I don't whine about it... Im happy with just being able to have a good time and buy what my money can get me... That dosent mean the club dosent want my money... It just means they are "encouraging" me to get a VIP membership since I spend a lot of time there anway...
from what I can see you guys are the only ones whining, I've bought all the dlcs and supported the game so why would I subscribe now to rent what I already own?... it would be like the club in your ridiculous analogy selling you a drink then charging you again for the privilige of drinking it.
You're not paying rent on what you already own. You will still own that. You will be paying rent on future content which hasn't been released yet.
Why is this so hard to grasp? It's not a loyalty reward for past behavior, it's an incentive for future behavior.
Why is it hard for you to grasp that if a person already owns those dlc zones there's no need to pay for access to them through subscribing, I just don't see the crafting bags as worth $15 alone and the rest of the subscription perks suck according to all of you so why would I subscribe?
Thanks I guess
@Tommy1979AtWar
Sorry, I missed this, was on my mobile, doesn't seem to load all responses for some reason.
If you already own DLC content, adding a subscription does not mean you're paying again for content you already have. You will still own that DLC, and you aren't being charged retroactively for it. If you were to decide the bag wasn't worth it an cancel your subscription, you would still own those DLC which you purchased prior to activating your subscription.
A new subscription would get you the various perks of subscribing, and any new DLC releases at no additional cost. If you choose to unsubscribe, you would lose those.
I'm not going to address the rest of your post because that's simply a matter of your opinion versus mine.
I understand perfectly how the subscription model works but seeing as I don't think any of the perks including the crafting bag are worth $120 per year I have no need to subscribe.
And no one is making you.
I haven't said anywhere that they were trying to, all I did was put forward my own opinion on why people who were sold the B2P model may feel zos scammed them, I really don't understand why the subscriber base are so set against zo$ even raising the bank or bag cap slightly.
I don't think they are, in general.
I mean, I'm sure there might be some out there who think everyone else can go suck eggs and deal with the bank/bag space currently available, but I think in general most folks wouldn't object to non-subs getting the option to further increase bank/inventory size.
I certainly don't care. If ZOS wanted to ad the option to buy more bank slots, wouldn't bother me in the least.
They aren't going to though. At least not right now. Here's why;
Increasing bag/bank size right now would be contrary to their incentive efforts with the Craft Bag.
If ZOS said, "Subscribers will now get a crafting bag that can hold billions of crafting items, also, everyone else will get the option to increase their bank size but up to 100 slots."
Then no new subscribers would sign up. Why? Because no one (very few people) have enough junk lying around to immediately fill those 100 new slots. And I've seen people asking for 200 or 500 additional inventory slots. Folks will forgo the subscription until they fill their banks up again.
That's not what ZOS wants. They want to reinforce their monthly subscription pile, not have some percentage of the player-base drop a hefty one-time purchase and then not buy anything for the next six months.
I agree it makes sense for zo$ to do it like that and for the exact same reasons as yourself however a lot of players are planning on only subbing for the months they need to fill their bags again which makes finacial sense tbh if you've not already bought the dlcs, $15 for 1500 crowns and access pts and to fill their bag the same month is a good deal to them.1 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »This does sound like the case of buyers remorse. If you bought all the DLC's which are expensive. Why did you not just get ESO+. I can understand how you see this as unfair but to expect the devs to accommodate for your regret of spending all that money doesn't seem fair either.
Adding this as a ESO+ only perk is a great incentive to keep steady revenue flow into the game. Which benefits everyone as a whole. And quite frankly if you have the money to blow on all the DLC's and then some more store content. You have the money to buy a sub plan.
I think it's more of a feeling of being scammed by Ubizo$, they sold the B2P model under the advertisement of "no subscription required", naturally one would assume that any perks or extras given for subscribing would also be offered for sale under the B2P model too.
"No subscription required" does not mean that benefits would not be made available to subscribers. You can play the game without a subscription can you not? No scam is in operation here.
Other perks for subscribing or at least an alternative are offered for sale in the crown store are they not?
Yes you have alternatives in game for craft bags. Its called crown bank/bag store upgrade. Ive got like 160 bag on each of my 8 toons and around 170-ish bank slots I think off the top of my head. I just need more space because im a hoarder and still have some v1-v15 gear pieces in game lol. If you are not a hoarder like me, you can easily make do with the allowable bank slots. If anything, you should be arguing for REMOVAL of bank cap. That way you can upgrade to your hearts content. You might get more traction and support even from ESO+ members this way. Begging for the bag is not gona make it happen.. At least in the near future. Devs have been very vocal and clear on that. Their answer to the question about whether craft bag was for ESO+ only was like literally just one word: YES.
I've stated before in earlier threads and polls that I'd be happy with the removal of bank caps.
I don't care either way about the craft bags I was simply putting forth an opinion of how people who were sold the B2P model maybe feeling scammed, if B2P customers are no longer needed then that's fine by me as Ubizo$ obviously no longer need my cash for further development of the game.
I dont get it... When I go to a club to drink and don't get to sit at the VIP table or get free special VIP drinks I don't whine about it... Im happy with just being able to have a good time and buy what my money can get me... That dosent mean the club dosent want my money... It just means they are "encouraging" me to get a VIP membership since I spend a lot of time there anway...
from what I can see you guys are the only ones whining, I've bought all the dlcs and supported the game so why would I subscribe now to rent what I already own?... it would be like the club in your ridiculous analogy selling you a drink then charging you again for the privilige of drinking it.
You're not paying rent on what you already own. You will still own that. You will be paying rent on future content which hasn't been released yet.
Why is this so hard to grasp? It's not a loyalty reward for past behavior, it's an incentive for future behavior.
Why is it hard for you to grasp that if a person already owns those dlc zones there's no need to pay for access to them through subscribing, I just don't see the crafting bags as worth $15 alone and the rest of the subscription perks suck according to all of you so why would I subscribe?
Thanks I guess
@Tommy1979AtWar
Sorry, I missed this, was on my mobile, doesn't seem to load all responses for some reason.
If you already own DLC content, adding a subscription does not mean you're paying again for content you already have. You will still own that DLC, and you aren't being charged retroactively for it. If you were to decide the bag wasn't worth it an cancel your subscription, you would still own those DLC which you purchased prior to activating your subscription.
A new subscription would get you the various perks of subscribing, and any new DLC releases at no additional cost. If you choose to unsubscribe, you would lose those.
I'm not going to address the rest of your post because that's simply a matter of your opinion versus mine.
I understand perfectly how the subscription model works but seeing as I don't think any of the perks including the crafting bag are worth $120 per year I have no need to subscribe.
And no one is making you.
I haven't said anywhere that they were trying to, all I did was put forward my own opinion on why people who were sold the B2P model may feel zos scammed them, I really don't understand why the subscriber base are so set against zo$ even raising the bank or bag cap slightly.
I'm not sure I've seen that being said anywhere....
The crux of the issue is that non subs fail to understand that Zos prefers players support the game via subscriptions vs exclusively via crown store purchases.
Answer me this? What type of perks if you can think of any, would you deem as fair and worthy of a subscription incentive? Mind you it must be a perk that is exclusive to subs without a cash shop equivalent.
Vanity rewards? Exclusive mounts? You realize what kind of uproar would ensue. The fact is, Zos has created a superb feature that has little bearing on actual gameplay that tons of players love and they have tied it to the subscription and have thus created a perfect incentive.
You can not add it as a one time purchase to the crown store because that would betray everything they are trying to accomplish with the perk.5 -
FLuFFyxMuFFiN✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I love how people argue that ESO plus has no value to them. Exactly! It has no value. That's why crafting bags are being added as a benefit. To give it value! If you still believe it has no value after that then that is a personal issue. It is your choice to not sub. If you don't wanna give ZoS a steady flow of money to support the game why would ZoS want to give you basically unlimited storage in return. It doesn't make sense to me. I don't care if you support by buying the DLC. You are still paying less a year that what a sub costs. And if you still buy crowns on top of that and think that you support the game more then you are wrong. Subs still buy crowns on top of their subscription so they still pay more money than a non-sub. 1500 crowns a month doesn't get you anywhere when you want to buy a lot of costumes, mounts, and pets.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »This does sound like the case of buyers remorse. If you bought all the DLC's which are expensive. Why did you not just get ESO+. I can understand how you see this as unfair but to expect the devs to accommodate for your regret of spending all that money doesn't seem fair either.
Adding this as a ESO+ only perk is a great incentive to keep steady revenue flow into the game. Which benefits everyone as a whole. And quite frankly if you have the money to blow on all the DLC's and then some more store content. You have the money to buy a sub plan.
I think it's more of a feeling of being scammed by Ubizo$, they sold the B2P model under the advertisement of "no subscription required", naturally one would assume that any perks or extras given for subscribing would also be offered for sale under the B2P model too.
"No subscription required" does not mean that benefits would not be made available to subscribers. You can play the game without a subscription can you not? No scam is in operation here.
Other perks for subscribing or at least an alternative are offered for sale in the crown store are they not?
Yes you have alternatives in game for craft bags. Its called crown bank/bag store upgrade. Ive got like 160 bag on each of my 8 toons and around 170-ish bank slots I think off the top of my head. I just need more space because im a hoarder and still have some v1-v15 gear pieces in game lol. If you are not a hoarder like me, you can easily make do with the allowable bank slots. If anything, you should be arguing for REMOVAL of bank cap. That way you can upgrade to your hearts content. You might get more traction and support even from ESO+ members this way. Begging for the bag is not gona make it happen.. At least in the near future. Devs have been very vocal and clear on that. Their answer to the question about whether craft bag was for ESO+ only was like literally just one word: YES.
I've stated before in earlier threads and polls that I'd be happy with the removal of bank caps.
I don't care either way about the craft bags I was simply putting forth an opinion of how people who were sold the B2P model maybe feeling scammed, if B2P customers are no longer needed then that's fine by me as Ubizo$ obviously no longer need my cash for further development of the game.
I dont get it... When I go to a club to drink and don't get to sit at the VIP table or get free special VIP drinks I don't whine about it... Im happy with just being able to have a good time and buy what my money can get me... That dosent mean the club dosent want my money... It just means they are "encouraging" me to get a VIP membership since I spend a lot of time there anway...
from what I can see you guys are the only ones whining, I've bought all the dlcs and supported the game so why would I subscribe now to rent what I already own?... it would be like the club in your ridiculous analogy selling you a drink then charging you again for the privilige of drinking it.
You're not paying rent on what you already own. You will still own that. You will be paying rent on future content which hasn't been released yet.
Why is this so hard to grasp? It's not a loyalty reward for past behavior, it's an incentive for future behavior.
Why is it hard for you to grasp that if a person already owns those dlc zones there's no need to pay for access to them through subscribing, I just don't see the crafting bags as worth $15 alone and the rest of the subscription perks suck according to all of you so why would I subscribe?
Thanks I guess
@Tommy1979AtWar
Sorry, I missed this, was on my mobile, doesn't seem to load all responses for some reason.
If you already own DLC content, adding a subscription does not mean you're paying again for content you already have. You will still own that DLC, and you aren't being charged retroactively for it. If you were to decide the bag wasn't worth it an cancel your subscription, you would still own those DLC which you purchased prior to activating your subscription.
A new subscription would get you the various perks of subscribing, and any new DLC releases at no additional cost. If you choose to unsubscribe, you would lose those.
I'm not going to address the rest of your post because that's simply a matter of your opinion versus mine.
I understand perfectly how the subscription model works but seeing as I don't think any of the perks including the crafting bag are worth $120 per year I have no need to subscribe.
And no one is making you.
I haven't said anywhere that they were trying to, all I did was put forward my own opinion on why people who were sold the B2P model may feel zos scammed them, I really don't understand why the subscriber base are so set against zo$ even raising the bank or bag cap slightly.
I'm not sure I've seen that being said anywhere....
The crux of the issue is that non subs fail to understand that Zos prefers players support the game via subscriptions vs exclusively via crown store purchases.
Answer me this? What type of perks if you can think of any, would you deem as fair and worthy of a subscription incentive? Mind you it must be a perk that is exclusive to subs without a cash shop equivalent.
Vanity rewards? Exclusive mounts? You realize what kind of uproar would ensue. The fact is, Zos has created a superb feature that has little bearing on actual gameplay that tons of players love and they have tied it to the subscription and have thus created a perfect incentive.
You can not add it as a one time purchase to the crown store because that would betray everything they are trying to accomplish with the perk.
Could not say it better.2 -
FLuFFyxMuFFiN✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »So genuine question for you all, seeing how you all seem to be of the opinion that the sub perks weren't worth it in the past do you all feel $120 a year is a fair price for a crafting bag alone?
It is most definitely worth it.1 -
Tommy1979AtWar✭✭✭✭khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »Some people feel that subscribers should not get any meaningful perks.
I've never seen anyone say that, quite the opposite tbh.newtinmpls wrote: »Seriously, I don't see anyone saying this - specifically I've NEVER heard anyone say they were against raising any storage max.
Although since I'm not maxed out on anyone's bank or bags, I might have missed it.
If you go back to the threads of when they were first mentioned you'll see lots of that sentiment, I've a feeling a lot reading this now have selective memories of those though.exeeter702 wrote: »I'm not sure I've seen that being said anywhere....
The crux of the issue is that non subs fail to understand that Zos prefers players support the game via subscriptions vs exclusively via crown store purchases.
Answer me this? What type of perks if you can think of any, would you deem as fair and worthy of a subscription incentive? Mind you it must be a perk that is exclusive to subs without a cash shop equivalent.
Vanity rewards? Exclusive mounts? You realize what kind of uproar would ensue. The fact is, Zos has created a superb feature that has little bearing on actual gameplay that tons of players love and they have tied it to the subscription and have thus created a perfect incentive.
You can not add it as a one time purchase to the crown store because that would betray everything they are trying to accomplish with the perk.
exclusive armours and weapons possibly an exclusive craftable set
exclusive pets
an increase to existing percentages of loot and xp etc
crafting bags
access to an exclusive zone
There are lots of things that could and should be implimented for subscribers which would increase the sub base, what I don't agree with though is being told I'm less important as a customer or that my money is worthless compared to a projected income through subs, I'm a customer too and I've paid to be here just the same as you guys.
locking an increased bank space which has been repeatedly asked for behind a subscription pay wall has been construed by many as disingenuous and misleading when b2p customers were sold and chose to buy for whatever reason that particular model.0 -
Tommy1979AtWar✭✭✭✭FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »So genuine question for you all, seeing how you all seem to be of the opinion that the sub perks weren't worth it in the past do you all feel $120 a year is a fair price for a crafting bag alone?
It is most definitely worth it.
To you it very well may be, I'm not disputing that you have a different opinion to me *shrugs*0 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭[Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »Some people feel that subscribers should not get any meaningful perks.
I've never seen anyone say that, quite the opposite tbh.newtinmpls wrote: »Seriously, I don't see anyone saying this - specifically I've NEVER heard anyone say they were against raising any storage max.
Although since I'm not maxed out on anyone's bank or bags, I might have missed it.
If you go back to the threads of when they were first mentioned you'll see lots of that sentiment, I've a feeling a lot reading this now have selective memories of those though.exeeter702 wrote: »I'm not sure I've seen that being said anywhere....
The crux of the issue is that non subs fail to understand that Zos prefers players support the game via subscriptions vs exclusively via crown store purchases.
Answer me this? What type of perks if you can think of any, would you deem as fair and worthy of a subscription incentive? Mind you it must be a perk that is exclusive to subs without a cash shop equivalent.
Vanity rewards? Exclusive mounts? You realize what kind of uproar would ensue. The fact is, Zos has created a superb feature that has little bearing on actual gameplay that tons of players love and they have tied it to the subscription and have thus created a perfect incentive.
You can not add it as a one time purchase to the crown store because that would betray everything they are trying to accomplish with the perk.
exclusive armours and weapons possibly an exclusive craftable set
exclusive pets
an increase to existing percentages of loot and xp etc
crafting bags
access to an exclusive zone
There are lots of things that could and should be implimented for subscribers which would increase the sub base, what I don't agree with though is being told I'm less important as a customer or that my money is worthless compared to a projected income through subs, I'm a customer too and I've paid to be here just the same as you guys.
locking an increased bank space which has been repeatedly asked for behind a subscription pay wall has been construed by many as disingenuous and misleading when b2p customers were sold and chose to buy for whatever reason that particular model.
You're not locked into that model are you?
Can you not re-evaluate your choice?
"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?2 -
Tommy1979AtWar✭✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »[Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »Some people feel that subscribers should not get any meaningful perks.
I've never seen anyone say that, quite the opposite tbh.newtinmpls wrote: »Seriously, I don't see anyone saying this - specifically I've NEVER heard anyone say they were against raising any storage max.
Although since I'm not maxed out on anyone's bank or bags, I might have missed it.
If you go back to the threads of when they were first mentioned you'll see lots of that sentiment, I've a feeling a lot reading this now have selective memories of those though.exeeter702 wrote: »I'm not sure I've seen that being said anywhere....
The crux of the issue is that non subs fail to understand that Zos prefers players support the game via subscriptions vs exclusively via crown store purchases.
Answer me this? What type of perks if you can think of any, would you deem as fair and worthy of a subscription incentive? Mind you it must be a perk that is exclusive to subs without a cash shop equivalent.
Vanity rewards? Exclusive mounts? You realize what kind of uproar would ensue. The fact is, Zos has created a superb feature that has little bearing on actual gameplay that tons of players love and they have tied it to the subscription and have thus created a perfect incentive.
You can not add it as a one time purchase to the crown store because that would betray everything they are trying to accomplish with the perk.
exclusive armours and weapons possibly an exclusive craftable set
exclusive pets
an increase to existing percentages of loot and xp etc
crafting bags
access to an exclusive zone
There are lots of things that could and should be implimented for subscribers which would increase the sub base, what I don't agree with though is being told I'm less important as a customer or that my money is worthless compared to a projected income through subs, I'm a customer too and I've paid to be here just the same as you guys.
locking an increased bank space which has been repeatedly asked for behind a subscription pay wall has been construed by many as disingenuous and misleading when b2p customers were sold and chose to buy for whatever reason that particular model.
You're not locked into that model are you?
Can you not re-evaluate your choice?
I could yes but I don't see it as worth my while to do so, as I said in my earliest posts on this thread I don't care about the bags one way or another, I've no need for them myself but I understand why some people are slightly miffed about being cast aside by zos and made to feel their past support of the game has counted for nothing.0 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »[Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »Some people feel that subscribers should not get any meaningful perks.
I've never seen anyone say that, quite the opposite tbh.newtinmpls wrote: »Seriously, I don't see anyone saying this - specifically I've NEVER heard anyone say they were against raising any storage max.
Although since I'm not maxed out on anyone's bank or bags, I might have missed it.
If you go back to the threads of when they were first mentioned you'll see lots of that sentiment, I've a feeling a lot reading this now have selective memories of those though.exeeter702 wrote: »I'm not sure I've seen that being said anywhere....
The crux of the issue is that non subs fail to understand that Zos prefers players support the game via subscriptions vs exclusively via crown store purchases.
Answer me this? What type of perks if you can think of any, would you deem as fair and worthy of a subscription incentive? Mind you it must be a perk that is exclusive to subs without a cash shop equivalent.
Vanity rewards? Exclusive mounts? You realize what kind of uproar would ensue. The fact is, Zos has created a superb feature that has little bearing on actual gameplay that tons of players love and they have tied it to the subscription and have thus created a perfect incentive.
You can not add it as a one time purchase to the crown store because that would betray everything they are trying to accomplish with the perk.
exclusive armours and weapons possibly an exclusive craftable set
exclusive pets
an increase to existing percentages of loot and xp etc
crafting bags
access to an exclusive zone
There are lots of things that could and should be implimented for subscribers which would increase the sub base, what I don't agree with though is being told I'm less important as a customer or that my money is worthless compared to a projected income through subs, I'm a customer too and I've paid to be here just the same as you guys.
locking an increased bank space which has been repeatedly asked for behind a subscription pay wall has been construed by many as disingenuous and misleading when b2p customers were sold and chose to buy for whatever reason that particular model.
You're not locked into that model are you?
Can you not re-evaluate your choice?
It is always much easier to assume nefarious motives to anyone who disagrees with oneself than to reassess one's decisions."A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle1 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »[Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »Some people feel that subscribers should not get any meaningful perks.
I've never seen anyone say that, quite the opposite tbh.newtinmpls wrote: »Seriously, I don't see anyone saying this - specifically I've NEVER heard anyone say they were against raising any storage max.
Although since I'm not maxed out on anyone's bank or bags, I might have missed it.
If you go back to the threads of when they were first mentioned you'll see lots of that sentiment, I've a feeling a lot reading this now have selective memories of those though.exeeter702 wrote: »I'm not sure I've seen that being said anywhere....
The crux of the issue is that non subs fail to understand that Zos prefers players support the game via subscriptions vs exclusively via crown store purchases.
Answer me this? What type of perks if you can think of any, would you deem as fair and worthy of a subscription incentive? Mind you it must be a perk that is exclusive to subs without a cash shop equivalent.
Vanity rewards? Exclusive mounts? You realize what kind of uproar would ensue. The fact is, Zos has created a superb feature that has little bearing on actual gameplay that tons of players love and they have tied it to the subscription and have thus created a perfect incentive.
You can not add it as a one time purchase to the crown store because that would betray everything they are trying to accomplish with the perk.
exclusive armours and weapons possibly an exclusive craftable set
exclusive pets
an increase to existing percentages of loot and xp etc
crafting bags
access to an exclusive zone
There are lots of things that could and should be implimented for subscribers which would increase the sub base, what I don't agree with though is being told I'm less important as a customer or that my money is worthless compared to a projected income through subs, I'm a customer too and I've paid to be here just the same as you guys.
locking an increased bank space which has been repeatedly asked for behind a subscription pay wall has been construed by many as disingenuous and misleading when b2p customers were sold and chose to buy for whatever reason that particular model.
You're not locked into that model are you?
Can you not re-evaluate your choice?
I could yes but I don't see it as worth my while to do so, as I said in my earliest posts on this thread I don't care about the bags one way or another, I've no need for them myself but I understand why some people are slightly miffed about being cast aside by zos and made to feel their past support of the game has counted for nothing.
For someone so apathetic to the issue, you sure do make a ton of posts about what other people think about it.
You just keep popping up to go, "I don't care. Other people care, but I don't care."
Everyone, please be aware that @Tommy1979AtWar does not care. Other people care, he doesn't.
EDIT: Also, as I've said numerous times. Their past support for the game -does- mean nothing. Nobody's past choices have any relevancy to this issue. None, zero. It's not a loyalty reward, it's a subscription incentive. Different things.Edited by ShedsHisTail on May 25, 2016 6:42PM"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?6 -
Number_51✭✭✭✭✭Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »I haven't said anywhere that they were trying to, all I did was put forward my own opinion on why people who were sold the B2P model may feel zos scammed them, I really don't understand why the subscriber base are so set against zo$ even raising the bank or bag cap slightly.
As an ESO+ member I'm not against that at all. In fact, I think the new character slots should come with between 10 and 30 bank slots just for purchasing them. There are two ways I came up with those numbers: 60 starting slots/8 chars=7.5 slots per char, round it up to 10 -or- 240 max slots/8 chars=30 slots per char. If they went with 10 slots per char they would also need to up the max slots you can buy in-game by 80 (new max banks slots of 360 either way).
To the topic at hand, I'd be very much against a flat rate crafting bag, but would have no issue with a set amount for 30 day access (say 500-750 crowns or so). They could also add in a 3 month access to crafting bags for the deluxe DLC package or something similar. No fundamental change needed to the current crafting bags with either option... don't pay - lose access to deposit but still able to withdraw.
1 -
Tommy1979AtWar✭✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »[Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »Some people feel that subscribers should not get any meaningful perks.
I've never seen anyone say that, quite the opposite tbh.newtinmpls wrote: »Seriously, I don't see anyone saying this - specifically I've NEVER heard anyone say they were against raising any storage max.
Although since I'm not maxed out on anyone's bank or bags, I might have missed it.
If you go back to the threads of when they were first mentioned you'll see lots of that sentiment, I've a feeling a lot reading this now have selective memories of those though.exeeter702 wrote: »I'm not sure I've seen that being said anywhere....
The crux of the issue is that non subs fail to understand that Zos prefers players support the game via subscriptions vs exclusively via crown store purchases.
Answer me this? What type of perks if you can think of any, would you deem as fair and worthy of a subscription incentive? Mind you it must be a perk that is exclusive to subs without a cash shop equivalent.
Vanity rewards? Exclusive mounts? You realize what kind of uproar would ensue. The fact is, Zos has created a superb feature that has little bearing on actual gameplay that tons of players love and they have tied it to the subscription and have thus created a perfect incentive.
You can not add it as a one time purchase to the crown store because that would betray everything they are trying to accomplish with the perk.
exclusive armours and weapons possibly an exclusive craftable set
exclusive pets
an increase to existing percentages of loot and xp etc
crafting bags
access to an exclusive zone
There are lots of things that could and should be implimented for subscribers which would increase the sub base, what I don't agree with though is being told I'm less important as a customer or that my money is worthless compared to a projected income through subs, I'm a customer too and I've paid to be here just the same as you guys.
locking an increased bank space which has been repeatedly asked for behind a subscription pay wall has been construed by many as disingenuous and misleading when b2p customers were sold and chose to buy for whatever reason that particular model.
You're not locked into that model are you?
Can you not re-evaluate your choice?
I could yes but I don't see it as worth my while to do so, as I said in my earliest posts on this thread I don't care about the bags one way or another, I've no need for them myself but I understand why some people are slightly miffed about being cast aside by zos and made to feel their past support of the game has counted for nothing.
For someone so apathetic to the issue, you sure do make a ton of posts about what other people think about it.
I was under the impression a "forum" was by definition a place to discuss items of interest and views on matters lol0 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »[Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »Some people feel that subscribers should not get any meaningful perks.
I've never seen anyone say that, quite the opposite tbh.newtinmpls wrote: »Seriously, I don't see anyone saying this - specifically I've NEVER heard anyone say they were against raising any storage max.
Although since I'm not maxed out on anyone's bank or bags, I might have missed it.
If you go back to the threads of when they were first mentioned you'll see lots of that sentiment, I've a feeling a lot reading this now have selective memories of those though.exeeter702 wrote: »I'm not sure I've seen that being said anywhere....
The crux of the issue is that non subs fail to understand that Zos prefers players support the game via subscriptions vs exclusively via crown store purchases.
Answer me this? What type of perks if you can think of any, would you deem as fair and worthy of a subscription incentive? Mind you it must be a perk that is exclusive to subs without a cash shop equivalent.
Vanity rewards? Exclusive mounts? You realize what kind of uproar would ensue. The fact is, Zos has created a superb feature that has little bearing on actual gameplay that tons of players love and they have tied it to the subscription and have thus created a perfect incentive.
You can not add it as a one time purchase to the crown store because that would betray everything they are trying to accomplish with the perk.
exclusive armours and weapons possibly an exclusive craftable set
exclusive pets
an increase to existing percentages of loot and xp etc
crafting bags
access to an exclusive zone
There are lots of things that could and should be implimented for subscribers which would increase the sub base, what I don't agree with though is being told I'm less important as a customer or that my money is worthless compared to a projected income through subs, I'm a customer too and I've paid to be here just the same as you guys.
locking an increased bank space which has been repeatedly asked for behind a subscription pay wall has been construed by many as disingenuous and misleading when b2p customers were sold and chose to buy for whatever reason that particular model.
You're not locked into that model are you?
Can you not re-evaluate your choice?
I could yes but I don't see it as worth my while to do so, as I said in my earliest posts on this thread I don't care about the bags one way or another, I've no need for them myself but I understand why some people are slightly miffed about being cast aside by zos and made to feel their past support of the game has counted for nothing.
For someone so apathetic to the issue, you sure do make a ton of posts about what other people think about it.
I was under the impression a "forum" was by definition a place to discuss items of interest and views on matters lol
It is, but you've repeatedly stated that you have no interest or views.
"... I don't care about the bags one way or another ..."
Those are your words."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »Some people feel that subscribers should not get any meaningful perks.
I've never seen anyone say that, quite the opposite tbh.newtinmpls wrote: »Seriously, I don't see anyone saying this - specifically I've NEVER heard anyone say they were against raising any storage max.
Although since I'm not maxed out on anyone's bank or bags, I might have missed it.
If you go back to the threads of when they were first mentioned you'll see lots of that sentiment, I've a feeling a lot reading this now have selective memories of those though.exeeter702 wrote: »I'm not sure I've seen that being said anywhere....
The crux of the issue is that non subs fail to understand that Zos prefers players support the game via subscriptions vs exclusively via crown store purchases.
Answer me this? What type of perks if you can think of any, would you deem as fair and worthy of a subscription incentive? Mind you it must be a perk that is exclusive to subs without a cash shop equivalent.
Vanity rewards? Exclusive mounts? You realize what kind of uproar would ensue. The fact is, Zos has created a superb feature that has little bearing on actual gameplay that tons of players love and they have tied it to the subscription and have thus created a perfect incentive.
You can not add it as a one time purchase to the crown store because that would betray everything they are trying to accomplish with the perk.
exclusive armours and weapons possibly an exclusive craftable set
exclusive pets
an increase to existing percentages of loot and xp etc
crafting bags
access to an exclusive zone
There are lots of things that could and should be implimented for subscribers which would increase the sub base, what I don't agree with though is being told I'm less important as a customer or that my money is worthless compared to a projected income through subs, I'm a customer too and I've paid to be here just the same as you guys.
locking an increased bank space which has been repeatedly asked for behind a subscription pay wall has been construed by many as disingenuous and misleading when b2p customers were sold and chose to buy for whatever reason that particular model.
Whoa whoa whoa, no one is saying non subscribers are less important or that your crown purchases are not valued. Understand that this is not a loyalty reward.
I can almost promise you with complete confidence, that an exclusive crafting style or mounts, anything of luxory vanity quality would be cause just as much of a fuss on here...
And even more increased exp or loot chances? You would have the misguided masses screaming p2w (inaccurate use of the term mind you).
It upsets you but the reality is that projected income is reliable income, when there is a monetary obligation from the customer, there is much more that Zos can plan ahead on. Cash shop purchases are volatile, there is no way to know if you are going to buy that sick mount today, in 4 months, or not at all.
More subscriptions leads to a healthier and steady influx of content for the game.
They are not ignoring the amount of money a player spends in crowns... obviously they value all the players that support the game, but essentially, with crowno store purchases, you are getting exactly what you want at the very moment of purchase, and it ends there until you decide you want something else that is offered.
A subscription is a commitment to the game based on future prospects and nothing is ever guarunteed in the bag (excuse the pun).
I know I might get alot of flak for this but in all honesty, for non subs, crown store purchases give you exactly what you pay for, nothing more or nothing less and you shouldn't feel it's unfair that certain things aren't for sale or available to you.
If you feel you absolutely need the crafting bag no questions asked, and if you truly enjoy the game and want it to continue giving you entertainment, hop into a subscription and take the risk like the rest of us.2 -
Tommy1979AtWar✭✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »[Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »Some people feel that subscribers should not get any meaningful perks.
I've never seen anyone say that, quite the opposite tbh.newtinmpls wrote: »Seriously, I don't see anyone saying this - specifically I've NEVER heard anyone say they were against raising any storage max.
Although since I'm not maxed out on anyone's bank or bags, I might have missed it.
If you go back to the threads of when they were first mentioned you'll see lots of that sentiment, I've a feeling a lot reading this now have selective memories of those though.exeeter702 wrote: »I'm not sure I've seen that being said anywhere....
The crux of the issue is that non subs fail to understand that Zos prefers players support the game via subscriptions vs exclusively via crown store purchases.
Answer me this? What type of perks if you can think of any, would you deem as fair and worthy of a subscription incentive? Mind you it must be a perk that is exclusive to subs without a cash shop equivalent.
Vanity rewards? Exclusive mounts? You realize what kind of uproar would ensue. The fact is, Zos has created a superb feature that has little bearing on actual gameplay that tons of players love and they have tied it to the subscription and have thus created a perfect incentive.
You can not add it as a one time purchase to the crown store because that would betray everything they are trying to accomplish with the perk.
exclusive armours and weapons possibly an exclusive craftable set
exclusive pets
an increase to existing percentages of loot and xp etc
crafting bags
access to an exclusive zone
There are lots of things that could and should be implimented for subscribers which would increase the sub base, what I don't agree with though is being told I'm less important as a customer or that my money is worthless compared to a projected income through subs, I'm a customer too and I've paid to be here just the same as you guys.
locking an increased bank space which has been repeatedly asked for behind a subscription pay wall has been construed by many as disingenuous and misleading when b2p customers were sold and chose to buy for whatever reason that particular model.
You're not locked into that model are you?
Can you not re-evaluate your choice?
I could yes but I don't see it as worth my while to do so, as I said in my earliest posts on this thread I don't care about the bags one way or another, I've no need for them myself but I understand why some people are slightly miffed about being cast aside by zos and made to feel their past support of the game has counted for nothing.
For someone so apathetic to the issue, you sure do make a ton of posts about what other people think about it.
I was under the impression a "forum" was by definition a place to discuss items of interest and views on matters lol
It is, but you've repeatedly stated that you have no interest or views.
"... I don't care about the bags one way or another ..."
Those are your words.
Yes they are my words and as I stated in that very sentence if you go back to my first comment you'll see it was an opinion given in reply to a question, the discussion has gone from there.
Am I not entitled to an opinion on why B2P customers may feel let down by zos just because I don't care either way about the craft bags?0 -
Evarwyn✭✭✭There is nothing wrong about it! There is no moral choice here. Its a simple economic choice on the part of the player. Can you afford to be an ESO + member? If not, well then, carry on the way you are. If you *CAN*, then here's an incentive (crafting bags).
ZOS has done what it can to be fair to ESO + Members and B2P players, but the rewards for being an ESO + Member are not that great. It leaves VERY little to no incentive to subscribe to the game.
Its simple economics. If the game has more subscribers, then we *ALL* benefit, especially the B2P players. We get more development, more content and more ZOS employees pouring over our annoying little complaints on the forums and forwarding them over to the devs.
The crafting bags, believe it or not, has incentivized players to become ESO + members again....and its not even OUT yet! That's a good thing!
Y'know what I think is wrong and unfair? Getting on the forums and whining about how you're losing out on a feature other people are *PAYING* for. If you've spent so much money in Crown Store items, how about you save your cash, and use it to become an ESO + member, instead of crying about how unfairly you're being treated because ESO + members are actually getting a game feature worth paying for.
I've been VERY critical of ZOS in the past over their Crown Store. Especially when they started selling crafting items in there, which I still think is game breaking. However, in this regard, I think this is an excellent move on their part. Its already brought friends of mine back to being ESO + Members and I don't think they'll be the only ones!
Keep up the great work ZOS! We need MORE features like this.
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kewl✭✭✭✭✭
✭OP, you have a valid point. The multitude of counter arguments are also rational. Ultimately it's a shrewd marketing tacit by ZOS that will alienate some customers. As long as the money keeps coming in, I don't think they care. Sorry.0 -
Tommy1979AtWar✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »Some people feel that subscribers should not get any meaningful perks.
I've never seen anyone say that, quite the opposite tbh.newtinmpls wrote: »Seriously, I don't see anyone saying this - specifically I've NEVER heard anyone say they were against raising any storage max.
Although since I'm not maxed out on anyone's bank or bags, I might have missed it.
If you go back to the threads of when they were first mentioned you'll see lots of that sentiment, I've a feeling a lot reading this now have selective memories of those though.exeeter702 wrote: »I'm not sure I've seen that being said anywhere....
The crux of the issue is that non subs fail to understand that Zos prefers players support the game via subscriptions vs exclusively via crown store purchases.
Answer me this? What type of perks if you can think of any, would you deem as fair and worthy of a subscription incentive? Mind you it must be a perk that is exclusive to subs without a cash shop equivalent.
Vanity rewards? Exclusive mounts? You realize what kind of uproar would ensue. The fact is, Zos has created a superb feature that has little bearing on actual gameplay that tons of players love and they have tied it to the subscription and have thus created a perfect incentive.
You can not add it as a one time purchase to the crown store because that would betray everything they are trying to accomplish with the perk.
exclusive armours and weapons possibly an exclusive craftable set
exclusive pets
an increase to existing percentages of loot and xp etc
crafting bags
access to an exclusive zone
There are lots of things that could and should be implimented for subscribers which would increase the sub base, what I don't agree with though is being told I'm less important as a customer or that my money is worthless compared to a projected income through subs, I'm a customer too and I've paid to be here just the same as you guys.
locking an increased bank space which has been repeatedly asked for behind a subscription pay wall has been construed by many as disingenuous and misleading when b2p customers were sold and chose to buy for whatever reason that particular model.
Whoa whoa whoa, no one is saying non subscribers are less important or that your crown purchases are not valued. Understand that this is not a loyalty reward.
I can almost promise you with complete confidence, that an exclusive crafting style or mounts, anything of luxory vanity quality would be cause just as much of a fuss on here...
And even more increased exp or loot chances? You would have the misguided masses screaming p2w (inaccurate use of the term mind you).
It upsets you but the reality is that projected income is reliable income, when there is a monetary obligation from the customer, there is much more that Zos can plan ahead on. Cash shop purchases are volatile, there is no way to know if you are going to buy that sick mount today, in 4 months, or not at all.
More subscriptions leads to a healthier and steady influx of content for the game.
They are not ignoring the amount of money a player spends in crowns... obviously they value all the players that support the game, but essentially, with crowno store purchases, you are getting exactly what you want at the very moment of purchase, and it ends there until you decide you want something else that is offered.
A subscription is a commitment to the game based on future prospects and nothing is ever guarunteed in the bag (excuse the pun).
I know I might get alot of flak for this but in all honesty, for non subs, crown store purchases give you exactly what you pay for, nothing more or nothing less and you shouldn't feel it's unfair that certain things aren't for sale or available to you.
If you feel you absolutely need the crafting bag no questions asked, and if you truly enjoy the game and want it to continue giving you entertainment, hop into a subscription and take the risk like the rest of us.
You'll find people making claim to that just a few posts back.
I'm not upset by any of it, I understand pojected forcasts and investment well enough to realise the impact on development.
Don't need it or want it thanks, the B2P model suited me fine
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FLuFFyxMuFFiN✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There is nothing wrong about it! There is no moral choice here. Its a simple economic choice on the part of the player. Can you afford to be an ESO + member? If not, well then, carry on the way you are. If you *CAN*, then here's an incentive (crafting bags).
ZOS has done what it can to be fair to ESO + Members and B2P players, but the rewards for being an ESO + Member are not that great. It leaves VERY little to no incentive to subscribe to the game.
Its simple economics. If the game has more subscribers, then we *ALL* benefit, especially the B2P players. We get more development, more content and more ZOS employees pouring over our annoying little complaints on the forums and forwarding them over to the devs.
The crafting bags, believe it or not, has incentivized players to become ESO + members again....and its not even OUT yet! That's a good thing!
Y'know what I think is wrong and unfair? Getting on the forums and whining about how you're losing out on a feature other people are *PAYING* for. If you've spent so much money in Crown Store items, how about you save your cash, and use it to become an ESO + member, instead of crying about how unfairly you're being treated because ESO + members are actually getting a game feature worth paying for.
I've been VERY critical of ZOS in the past over their Crown Store. Especially when they started selling crafting items in there, which I still think is game breaking. However, in this regard, I think this is an excellent move on their part. Its already brought friends of mine back to being ESO + Members and I don't think they'll be the only ones!
Keep up the great work ZOS! We need MORE features like this.
Great post! Housing could be done the same way where ESO+ members get access to a bigger and better house. Part of me is looking forward to something like that. The other part is looking forward to the rage posts that it will cause.
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NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »This does sound like the case of buyers remorse. If you bought all the DLC's which are expensive. Why did you not just get ESO+. I can understand how you see this as unfair but to expect the devs to accommodate for your regret of spending all that money doesn't seem fair either.
Adding this as a ESO+ only perk is a great incentive to keep steady revenue flow into the game. Which benefits everyone as a whole. And quite frankly if you have the money to blow on all the DLC's and then some more store content. You have the money to buy a sub plan.
I think it's more of a feeling of being scammed by Ubizo$, they sold the B2P model under the advertisement of "no subscription required", naturally one would assume that any perks or extras given for subscribing would also be offered for sale under the B2P model too.
"No subscription required" does not mean that benefits would not be made available to subscribers. You can play the game without a subscription can you not? No scam is in operation here.
Other perks for subscribing or at least an alternative are offered for sale in the crown store are they not?
Yes you have alternatives in game for craft bags. Its called crown bank/bag store upgrade. Ive got like 160 bag on each of my 8 toons and around 170-ish bank slots I think off the top of my head. I just need more space because im a hoarder and still have some v1-v15 gear pieces in game lol. If you are not a hoarder like me, you can easily make do with the allowable bank slots. If anything, you should be arguing for REMOVAL of bank cap. That way you can upgrade to your hearts content. You might get more traction and support even from ESO+ members this way. Begging for the bag is not gona make it happen.. At least in the near future. Devs have been very vocal and clear on that. Their answer to the question about whether craft bag was for ESO+ only was like literally just one word: YES.
I've stated before in earlier threads and polls that I'd be happy with the removal of bank caps.
I don't care either way about the craft bags I was simply putting forth an opinion of how people who were sold the B2P model maybe feeling scammed, if B2P customers are no longer needed then that's fine by me as Ubizo$ obviously no longer need my cash for further development of the game.
I dont get it... When I go to a club to drink and don't get to sit at the VIP table or get free special VIP drinks I don't whine about it... Im happy with just being able to have a good time and buy what my money can get me... That dosent mean the club dosent want my money... It just means they are "encouraging" me to get a VIP membership since I spend a lot of time there anway...
from what I can see you guys are the only ones whining, I've bought all the dlcs and supported the game so why would I subscribe now to rent what I already own?... it would be like the club in your ridiculous analogy selling you a drink then charging you again for the privilige of drinking it.
You're not paying rent on what you already own. You will still own that. You will be paying rent on future content which hasn't been released yet.
Why is this so hard to grasp? It's not a loyalty reward for past behavior, it's an incentive for future behavior.
@ShedsHisTail
Actually we are paying rent for access to something we already own.
see thats the whole point of value for some vs. no-value for others.
-ESO Plus gives
-DLC access
-more exp
-more gold
-reduces research time
-Those of us who buy instead of subscribe'
-own the DLC
-have EXP scrolls or potions
-can still gain gold
-may be done researching
*We are paying to rent something we already own* so that analogy is spot on.*
You've lost me.
How does listing features have anything to do with the principles of rent vs own?
@ShedsHisTail
Listing what is offered in ESO PLus (rented) and comparing those to what is purchase via crowns (owned) is the whole point of earlier comments.
I'm showing you that what those who buy crowns to buy the items that give the same features and functions as the ESO benefits are not seeing value because they already purchased the benefits.
If that doesn't make sense, perhaps it explains why you disagree or don't understand the feedback to offer the crafting bag outside of ESO Plus, in addition to keeping it offered as a (rental) via ESO Plus.
If you use ESO Plus and use those crowns to buy some of the benefits, the next renewal is of lesser value.Edited by NewBlacksmurf on May 25, 2016 7:05PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010
This discussion has been closed.