...........

Does Daggerfall even fight any of the other Alliances in their quest line?
I know there's that 1 quest with Lady Laurance stopping the Dominion in the Alki'r Desert but that's more of a side quest than main one. Daggerfall is more preoccupied with Necromancers, Reachman, Imperials and Daedric influences than fighting off the other alliances

Same goes for Aldmeri. They have a side quest against Ebonheart in 1 Auridon and that's it. The rest is internal strife for the 1st 3 areas, a Jealous Werewolf in Malabor Tor and Imperials invading Reaper's March.

Well, having just got my 3rd character to v16 I've gone through all 3 ways and here is now it seems to lay out to me. They were all just puppets from the start.

The former emperor ousts one bunch of tyrants from the ruby throne but gets used as a patsy in the process, the empire starts to fragment and 3 power blocks emerge in the form of Covenant, Pact and Dominion with most of the former imperial army ending up either around the imperial city or under the control of worm cult lackeys..... but, while they all seek the throne and thereby power over Tamriel the more you read of the notes left lying around the more the whole thing comes over as a put up job.

Every zone's main villain has worm cult fingerprints in one form or another, some times its as little as a note here and there, or a character dressed in cult garb lurking in the background. Molag Bal even boasts that the 3 banners war, aka the pvp zone, was fermented by the cult, they needed it because if you think about it the Dark Anchors would never have worked if the alliances were not already fighting on half a dozen fronts at home and abroad.

Remember that the alliances declared a 3 way war in Cyrodiil that none of them could realistically win because regardless of success they are all coming apart back home until you arrive to save the day, so they are either the most stupid rulers in history or they were manipulated into a position where they felt they had no choice.

The final bit of evidence is one of the jewels of ESO, for me as a lore nut anyway, in Reapers March, just a little way west of Dune is a small village, absolutely packed with notes and journals, have a really good look around, listen carefully to any dialogue especially stuff you overhear at a distance and you will find out just how massive the conspiracy to bring down Tamriel really was

Okay, I'll buy that. I had forgotten about the Frozen Man but yeah, that makes sense of it being messed up. I still wonder why the alliance most likely to fall apart first is the one with the least internal strife orr at leadt organized strife. I guess they get along so poorly there is no need to add an overarching plot to it. Argonians and Dunmer don't like or trust one another and Nords think they are the nine's gift to Tamriel and all others should get out of the way. For as much as people beat on the Altmer for arogance, the Nords are at least as bad and more beligerant about it.

I love how it's obvious that spies, subterfuge and sabotage are keeping all these organizations focused on internal problems, instead of putting their entire might on Cyrodiil.

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

If it helps:

--The Pact was formed in response to a joint victory against the Kamal invaders from Akavir. That was about ten years prior to game start.
--The Covenant as we know it is actually the SECOND Covenant--the original was just the various kingdoms in High Rock.

The 'first' Covenant is the oldest; I think the Second Covenant is older than the Pact, and I seem to recall that Ayrenn founded the Dominion partially in reaction to the existence of the other two alliances.

I also seem to recall that the Frozen Man on Bleakrock (who

was originally a spy for the Dominion

has been there for a few years, but it's been a while. The Pact and the Dominion were at least hostile enough to be spying on each other at that point.

Supposedly the Daggerfall Covenant is the oldest. According to the lore it was some sort of NATO like treaty between the kingdoms of High Rock after a failed invasion by Durcorach the Black Drake (One of the Longhouse Emperors that controlled the Imperial City at the time) in 2E 541. It seems to not have been enforced until sometime around 2E 563 because of poverty that was beginning to take its toll on the kingdoms. It seems to have evolved from some sort of loose agreement between the kingdoms into something more along the lines of trade at this point. But its not until 2E 566 and 2E 567 that it seems to have really amounted to anything resembling an Alliance with its own standing army. And this was due to King Ranser of Rivenspire launching an attack on Wayrest. This is also when the Orcs under King Kurogs banner fell in with the Daggerfall Covenant after participating in crushing Ranser at Markwasten Moors.

The Ebonheart Pact is the second oldest. Formed after the Kamals of Akavir launched an invasion that swept Eastern Skyrim and the inner shores of Morrowind in 2E 572. Though theres not much in the lore relating to what the Ebonheart Pact has been up to until recently. They didnt even have an established leader until 2E 582 when they declared High King Jorunn High King of the Ebonheart Pact after the defeat of Fildgor and the Stormfist Clan at Skuldafn. Before that it seems each race took care of internal governance on their own.

The Aldmeri Dominion is the youngest. The Queen at the age of 26 or 27 (the lore seems inconsistent about Aryenn with dates and lengths of times.) returned to the Summerset Isles in 2E 580 and began her coronation. At the same time she seems to have launched numerous efforts to bring the Bosmer and Khajiit into her Aldmeri Dominion. Im really not well versed on the happenings of Valenwood and Elswyr during or before this time to really speculate. But last I remember the Bosmer were dealing with either an invasion from the Colovians or a rebellion of their own...or both. And the Khajiit seem to have been recovering from the Knahaten Flu and a recent invasion by the Colovians. From my understanding Ayrenn committed resources to the Khajiit to help speed along the recovery efforts and troops to the Bosmer to fight back the Colovians/Rebels. Either way, it seems quite a bit happened between 2E 580 and 2E 582.

Its important to note that the Soulburst which precipitated all of this was in 2E 578.


I have a hard time imagining the AD being able to field an army in Cyrodiil as early as 2E 580. And I assume that while the war is considered to have started in 2E 580 it wasnt an actual Three Banner War at first. The DC and EP were the only two not wrapped up in internal affairs at this point and had already established themselves as their own empires. If Aryenn had just showed up in 2E 580. Thats some serious diplomatic work for her to have supplied the Khajiit with enough resources and convinced the Mane to join her cause. Same with King Aeradan Camoran. I cant accept that these two would commit their people and armies to the AD before the Altmer proved to be able to help them.

Moonscythe wrote: »

Perhaps, but the Nords believe they are the direct descendants of Talos and the only true rulers of all of Tamriel.

They do not, if for no other reason than Talos isn't going to come around for another few centuries.

The Dominion was created before the Ebon Heart Pact was made. When the characters showed up on the scene, as spoken by the Silvanar on KR, before his assassination by the Sea Elves, he says something like, in service for the fledgling Dominion. EP was the last seeing the formation of DC and AD, the Nords already in contact with the Dark Elves and making them compromise with the Argonians to make the alliance. Even at that, EP was not officially formed until about 1/2 way (give or take) in the player character storyline.

Moonscythe wrote: »

Marque wrote: »

As far as I can tell, the Dominon and Covenant formed directly in response to the turmoil in Cyrodiil, each having different reasons for doing so. The Pact initially formed to fend of the invading Akavir, and turned around to find themselves surrounded by enemies, and had to stay together or face the consequences. As far as the Altmer vs Nords you mentioned, the Altmer believe themselves to be the closest descendants of the Eight Divines, so i would say they are more arrogant than the Nords.

Perhaps, but the Nords believe they are the direct descendants of Talos and the only true rulers of all of Tamriel. They are intolerant of all other races and respect only brute force. They are arrogant, ignorant and beligerant. At this point in history, the Thalmor of Skyrim does not exist and Queen Ayrenn is working to support those she is trying to ally with and fight the intolerance in her own people. Many of the altmer and dunmer are dismissive of other races but the ones who are extreme in their intolerance are the internal enemy not the prevailing opinion of the Queen and her advisors. Of all the rulers I have met so far Ayrenn is the only one I would follow if this were reality. She is the only one who looks outward and has a plan.

The two Breton rulers I have met, including Emmerick, are weak. The Dunmer are under the thumb of Almalexia and she is not to be trusted. The Dunmer themselves can't even get along with each other and have not accepted an equal footing with the Argonians. The Dunmer look down on the Nords as being uncivilized but will still be ruled by them because they can't muster their own organization. The Orcs and Bosmer are both too insular in their worldview. Whether they have cause or not they are still unsuited to rule more than their own. As for the Argonians and Khajit, they, too are inwardly turned but more open to the outer world as observers.

If youre RPing. Youre about 300 years in the wrong direction.

It was my fault I started it, I had a call of nature in Cyrodil obviously I left the road and went to relieve myself behind a tree, little did I know there was a Daggerfall Covenant rogue in stealth and I sort of soaked him, in his dismay and the shock he accidently ambushed a sorcerer from Ebonheart Pact and before you knew it all hell broke loose.

Trust me when I say always, I mean always take a pee before leaving camp as you never know what trouble you could start.

Moonscythe wrote: »

And now we know, it was, as it frequently is, a misunderstanding. Maybe carry some flour just to check for stealthy observers? We girls always go before we leave home because there is no telling what one will find out in the wild...other than wild things of course.

You ladies are always so well organised that's why behind every great male hero was an even greater female companion

Moonscythe wrote: »

So, I thought the conflicts went like the ourobouros i.e. Covenant to Pact to Dominion to Covenant. Why, then is the Pact fighting one then the other and why does seem that only the Pact is afflicted from outside. The Deshaan problem with pirate slavers made no sense. The pirates should have been Redguard who have already been set up as pirates. Khajit would not be slavers and have never been shown as pirates. I also have some problems with Bosmer in the swamps of Shadowfen.

All three Alliance Questlines happen at the same time. If you're the Vestige that starts in the Dominion, then imagine two other Vestiges have started in the Pact and Covenant as well, and as you go along the story, so do the other two. Think of it like this. When you complete the story and then Cadwell offers you to go experience the other Alliances, you're effectively jumping back in time to when you escaped Coldharbor, but you landed in a different ocean, being saved by a different boat ect.

As for who fights who, it's a big ol' threeway *** of skirmishes. The REAL war is in Cyrodil, that's where the majority of the Alliance Armies are being deployed. The battles you experience within the Alliance Zones are nothing more than small Skirmishes and infiltrations aimed at weakening or destabilizing the other Alliance's homeland.

In the Pact, the Covenant sends a detachment of the Lion Guard through Wrothgar and into Skyrim as a sort of Espionage Invasion force, the bulk of it you will find as a Public Dungeon called Lion's Den. The Dominion also tries to use a Khajiiti Pirate group as a supplier to enable an Invasion of Black Marsh. The fact that the Khajiiti Pirates were taking slaves doesn't make them Slavers, but really they were taking Prisoners to likely be sold to the Dominion for unknown purposes. And in Morrowind the Covenant, probably related to the force striking Skyrim had sailed to Bleakrock with the possible objective of securing it as a staging area for it's subsequent Invasion of Davon's Watch.

I could write equally long paragraphs about the Dominion and Covenant questlines, but the gist of this is, all these events are happening at the same time in the timeline. And really it amounts to nothing more than the normalcy of War. The real objective for each Alliance is to capture and occupy Cyrodiil and the Imperial City, and to do that, each Alliance sends smaller forces out to the other Alliance homelands in order to wreck as much havoc as possible so the War Effort diminishes and an advantage in Cyrodiil is gained.

Artis wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

DC... as has been said, are the oldest, and the ones already crumbling - the Orsimer sort of distanced themselves after king Kurogs death, and we know from the lore the whole faction will fall apart completely with Emrics death in the future. They only got together in the first place to resist the empire, and kept being together almost entirely through sheer personalty of emric (and a lot of political backroom deals). If you read between the lines, you can see where their connection unravels througout their mainstory - a redguard noble killed in breton lands, orcs still holding quite a grudge against both for old orsinium, bretons posed to go back to their custom of political backstabbing and power games, redguards being split between the isolationist traditionals, and the progressive reformers... like mentioned, crumbling already and only held together by the political connections of an old king who will not see too many more winters...

Can you post a link about the faction falling apart after his death? I googled and didn't really find anything like that.

OP, DC also has quests with Dominion invaders in Glenumbra (on the west shore. We save somebody from the AD scouts camp).

All three alliances come apart sometime before Talos takes an army south. When they fall apart is up for debate. But some think that the alliances wont last beyond those who brought them together. And it makes a lot of sense for some. Not so much for others.

The EP and AD will definitely come apart once their current leaders are out of the picture. Either because of change of leadership or because old habits die hard.

The EP rely heavily on the common goal of conquering Cyrodiil and the reminder of what the Kamals did to them just a short decade ago. But the farther away they are from the Akaviri Invasion (time wise) the more and more they will forget why it was important. And the longer it takes to put an Ebonheart Pact leader on the throne. The more likely frustration is to set in between the leaders and people. And time is the enemy of every mortal. The only leading member of the EP, active at least, that will remain in the end will be Almalexia. King Jorunn is in his 30s. And will maybe see another 30 years before he takes his leave for Sovngarde if hes lucky. Hes a Nord though so its not far fetched he ends up on the wrong side of a fight sometime in the future. At that point, whos to say if Prince Irnskar will decide to follow in his fathers footsteps or honor the Pact. He seems to come to terms with the importance of the allies at Skuldafn. But hes still got his adult life in front of him. Theres no telling how future events may sway him. And how long will the Dunmer go before they fall back into their old habit of enslaving the Argonians? How much will they suffer having to treat the Argonians as equals? The reason the Argonians is free is to further inspire them to continue fighting for the Ebonheart Pact. The outcast Argonian tribe in AD is a fine example of this as they were told to get lost when they refused to fight on behalf of the EP. Once the Nords are no longer politically influential enough or no longer party to the Pact. How long before the Argonians are back in chains?

The AD seems fragile and ready to crumble at any moment. The possible future shown to the Lunar Champion just shows that the AD is on the knifes edge and very close to coming apart. Regardless of the propaganda spun by the Thalmor and Queen Aryenn. The Veiled Heritance is a serious threat that obviously has the influence and backing of many major players in the Altmer court and society. This is a group that not only had the ability to turn Auridon into a warzone but were able to project their influence and efforts into Valenwood. In the possible future shown to the Lunar Champion the Veiled Heritance were still around, meaning we havent seen the last of them. This whole alliance hinges on the willpower of Aryenn. If someone successfully assassinates her, or she fails to project the ADs might into Cyrodiil, or she isnt crowned Empress soon enough. The glue that holds this alliance together might start peeling away. The Bosmer commit the most troops and may begin to feel the weight of this as time passes. Its pretty obvious from the future shown to the Lunar Champion that the Khajiit are only in the alliance due to the Mane. And if the Mane was to die or no longer support the idea of the Alliance. That would be it for them.

The DC are probably the strongest out of the three. But we need to remember what the DC was before it became what we know and recognize in the game. The DC has existed long before King Faharajad and King Kurog joined it. The DC is an alliance that binds High Rock. The Breton people. The Orcs are bound to leave the alliance at some point. For now Bazrag plans to honor Kurogs memory by continuing on with what Kurog set out to do. But whos to say how long that may last before Bazrag decides to do things his way, and according to how he feels its best to serve his people. And the people of Hammerfell could easily find themselves no longer tied to Emeric and the DC if Emeric cant provide an heir with his Queen. And even that does not guarantee the people of Hammerfell will remain with the alliance. How many times have we seen family fight family over power? Eventually Hammerfell and Wrothgar will have no real reason to remain committed to the Daggerfall Covenant. What will remain of the Covenant is what it began as. A promise between Kings of High Rock.

Ad fights the veiled herritage, an group of racist high elves who think they are better just because they are elves. They don't like Arreyn for allying with "lesser races" (khajiit and bosmer).

EP fights DC and AD, but at least the AD in shadowscale seems to be a rogue patroll(I doubt Arreyn or any other leader of AD would have allowed the genoside)

DC fights different daedric cults and imperials.